[SamuelBRoberts]

Really, anyone who takes investment advice from "HardcoreSexPatMotherfucker" deserves the bad things that happen as a consequence of that, so go ahead and recommend whatever you like.

Dash is garbage, though, so please don't recommend that.

[jamaicabound]

(11-16-2017 10:42 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Really, anyone who takes investment advice from "HardcoreSexPatMotherfucker" deserves the bad things that happen as a consequence of that, so go ahead and recommend whatever you like.

Dash is garbage, though, so please don't recommend that.

I don't know that much about Dash though from what most people say they are more marketing where as Monero is the best tech. As we've seen sometimes the best marketing wins out over the best tech.

I'm really liking Nav coin. I don't know if it will become super popular but two reasons I like privacy coins in general right now is there's an Agora 2.0 launching now which means people will use privacy coins for that, and also with the IRS probe of COinbase back in the news and with judges looking like they are going to side with the IRS I think Privacy coins in general will get a bump.

Specifically regarding Nav, nice looking website, their goals is to make crypto easy for noobies and also privacy and speedy and cheap transactions, all good things in my book.

In regars to their privacy they use RSA where as Monero and Dash and Zcoin use a newer technology which isnt' as proven. Not to say this will happen but if that lesser tested technology shows flaws their coins are potentially trash after that. RSA is tested for years so a bit more known.

Their wallet is easy to use and they have some cool features where you can send Bitcoin anonymously or any coin for that matter because you send Bitcoin it goes to Nav and back to Bitcoin making it anonymous from my understanding.

Lastly you can stake it for 5%.

[HardcoreSexpatMotherfucker]

(11-16-2017 10:42 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Really, anyone who takes investment advice from "HardcoreSexPatMotherfucker" deserves the bad things that happen as a consequence of that, so go ahead and recommend whatever you like.

Dash is garbage, though, so please don't recommend that.

- I do not give investment advice. I am more interested in promoting blockchain against banks in general. There's more to it than just making a quick buck.

- I do not recommend Dash. I argue that Bitcoin will burst once people will start using the cryptos for actual transactions. The winners might be Dash, but also XRP or OmiseGo. Those 3 seem the only functionning ones, but I'm not arguing for one or the other.

Bitcoin was an experiment. It's like the AOL or Netscape Navigator of crypto. All the infrastructure that has been built around Bitcoin (ATMs, wallets, debit cards, etc) will progressively become multi-currency (ie accepting the top 10 cryptos or something), then users will have a choice. Once they have that choice, they will see how poorly the Bitcoin experiment is compared to the other cryptos.

Right now we are still in a situation where most people don't have a choice: you need to buy Bitcoin first on most exchanges, then convert it into the crypto of your choice. Most sites list only the Bitcoin price on their homepage, etc. so BTC still benefits from a preeminence due to its notoriety.

(11-14-2017 10:19 AM)infinitejest Wrote:  

I'm not drinking the 'store of value,' 'digital gold' kool-aid that seems to be the go-to talking point every BTC maximalist uses nowadays to argue for Bitcoin. It's funny how bitcoin has changed from its initial inception as a "purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash" in the original whitepaper to 'digital gold!'. The best part is these same maximalists will tell you that BTC is the only real coin and that every ALT is shit, especially the 'centralized' ones like ETH, while they completely ignore the centralized nature of Blockstream

Bitcoin isn't digital gold. Gold was unique because no one could replicate or improve its molecular composition. It's a unique metal, with unique properties. But anyone (or at least many people) can create a blockchain that is technologically superior to Bitcoin - and that can be improved incrementally over the years.

So cryptos are NOT a store of value (not anymore than fiat is), they are an efficient protocol for the transfer of money. Just like there was http, now there is http 2.0, soon there might be IPFS, etc.

(11-13-2017 08:34 AM)kuros Wrote:  

99% of people in the cryptocurrencies world are not using the cryptocurrencies at all.

They are useful for close to nothing if you are being honest about it.

Not even Amazon does not accept any of them.

Overstock.com does, though, through CoinPayments.net.

But yeah, it's mostly speculation at this point. I don't care about speculation, I care about the success of crypto as a whole, so that we stop depending on banks, physical addresses, debit cards, etc. I want a universal, instant protocol for all payments.

(11-16-2017 01:45 PM)jamaicabound Wrote:  

I don't know that much about Dash though from what most people say they are more marketing where as Monero is the best tech. As we've seen sometimes the best marketing wins out over the best tech.

- Dash focuses primarily on being user-friendly (by building interfaces your grandma could use) and actual retail adoption (not necessarily just marketing)

- Monero focuses on being 100% anonymous (but is a headache for the layman to use and will likely remain so for a long time).

[Razor Beast]

Like the mania of the tech bubble in the late 1990's, if you truly believe in crypto long term, your best time to invest is after the inevitable huge crash. Wait for the dust to settle from this bubble and see what new cryptos emerge and make leaps forward in the years ahead. This has turned into a mania now that will meet an unfortunate end. And that unfortunate end will include a historic crash and subsequent strict regulation of cryptocurrencies for them to remain legal, which takes away a lot of the appeal of cryptocurrencies to begin with

I'd strongly advise anyone to take profits in your crypto at this point because no matter how good your under the radar crypto may be, it will be dragged down when the hammer drops on bitcoin. Ethereum went from hundreds of dollars to a couple dollars in minutes earlier this year. The liquidity evaporates once there is any serious selling pressure. Once this market turns exchanges will crash and you will be locked out unable to sell. For those staying in best of luck, if you are in the right cryptos it may work out for you decades from now but you will need to be able to endure an incredible amount of pain and lots of sleepless nights to get to the finish line. Especially when nationalized cryptos are rolled out as "the solution" to the regulatory problem of the current crypto system in wake of the carnage.

Don't say you weren't warned!

[[email protected]]

(11-16-2017 06:04 AM)HardcoreSexpatMotherfucker Wrote:  

(11-01-2017 11:23 AM)PolymathGuru Wrote:  

Cryptocurrencies are only valuable as a storage of value. When people are financing finance such as the Wall Street Crash of 1929, 2007 financial crisis or Tulip Mania or the south sea company, you tend to see busts.

It does well for storing value. However, it isn't well used as a medium of exchange. With the exception of a few vendors, most people do not buy stuff in cryptocurrencies.

That's the thing. The time will come soon when the cryptos that are actually designed for real life use will see a surge (I won't mention them, otherwise there is always someone that will accuse me of "shilling") and the Bitcoin bubble will burst. All that Bitcoin money will flow overnight in the cryptos that have usable POS, usable interface, lowest fees and instant (less than 5 seconds) settlement.

Crypto has tremendous value in that it can potentially bypass the whole financial system based on bank accounts, fixed addresses, expiring debit/credit cards, cranky ATMs, incredible delays and fees, etc.

Cryptos are the Internet of Value. Once a global protocol emerges and enables real-time conversion of one value token into another with very low fees, we will be able to exchange any kind of value: fiat, airline miles, amazon gift cards, any kinds of coupons from all the companies in the world... The possibilities are endless.

And no, Bitcoin is not like gold. Anyone could create a blockchain, providing they get the following and adoption. Blockchain is a protocol for value, not a commodity.

There is only real bubble underlying all bubbles, it's the fiat bubble. What's popping isn't Bitcoin, it's fiat.

Bitcoin being gold 2.0 is just a silly meme to make up for the fact it's transactions are slow compared to everything out there, with the exception of oversea remittances. It's not "Bitcoin is gold," it's really "fiat is shit" and nobody wants it anymore. Sure, everyone needs fiat to pay for groceries and everyday things but nobody wants their fiat savings to be punished. That's why everyone's savings are pouring into crypto right now and will continue to pour into it.

It's also clear to me that this "blockchain tech has value, Bitcoin does not" is just another meme spread by the elite institutions to FUD it and keep it to themselves to manage.

Everyone that can get into this should and make something of it, if they can, while they still can.

[PolymathGuru]

(11-27-2017 04:49 AM)Razor Beast Wrote:  

Like the mania of the tech bubble in the late 1990's, if you truly believe in crypto long term, your best time to invest is after the inevitable huge crash. Wait for the dust to settle from this bubble and see what new cryptos emerge and make leaps forward in the years ahead. This has turned into a mania now that will meet an unfortunate end. And that unfortunate end will include a historic crash and subsequent strict regulation of cryptocurrencies for them to remain legal, which takes away a lot of the appeal of cryptocurrencies to begin with

I'd strongly advise anyone to take profits in your crypto at this point because no matter how good your under the radar crypto may be, it will be dragged down when the hammer drops on bitcoin. Ethereum went from hundreds of dollars to a couple dollars in minutes earlier this year. The liquidity evaporates once there is any serious selling pressure. Once this market turns exchanges will crash and you will be locked out unable to sell. For those staying in best of luck, if you are in the right cryptos it may work out for you decades from now but you will need to be able to endure an incredible amount of pain and lots of sleepless nights to get to the finish line. Especially when nationalized cryptos are rolled out as "the solution" to the regulatory problem of the current crypto system in wake of the carnage.

Don't say you weren't warned!

I believe cryptocurrencies will do well in the long run. But I do believe it is in a bubble. I am seeing more of the psychological craze picking up around me with more people becoming familiar with the returns of cryptocurrencies. I expect this stuff to crash in some time around 2018.

[Blaster]

(11-01-2017 11:23 AM)PolymathGuru Wrote:  

First off, I am not anti cryptocurrency. I am not speculation. I am anti principle. If you want to invest in cryptocurrency, feel free to do so. But I recommend investing at most money you would be willing to lose and never miss.

At this point I would call bitcoin a moderately risky investment in the short term, but very high risk for the long term. If you've invested in bitcoin at any point in the last few years, odds are good that you'll be able to cash out nicely if that's what you're interested in.

Quote:

2) Problems when people are financing finance- People finance cars. People finance houses. People finance Businesses. All these things are assets that have an underlying value. Cryptocurrencies are only valuable as a storage of value. When people are financing finance such as the Wall Street Crash of 1929, 2007 financial crisis or Tulip Mania or the south sea company, you tend to see busts.

Agian, I am not hyping bitcoin at all, but Bitcoin is more than just a store of value. Bitcoin, for example, enables financial transactions that would be more difficult or expensive to do with any existing currency. Currently, for example, most online transactions requires a credit or debit card-- a 3rd party vendor with full access to all your account details, etc.. Cryptocurrency enables electronic exchanges that replace single middleman with a distributed mechanism.

Quote:

3) Lacks intrinsic value- What is money useful for? Money has three features; a medium of exchange, a unit of account, a store of value. Hypothetically cryptocurrencies have these features. However, they lack two of these three features. It does well for storing value. However, it isn't well used as a medium of exchange. With the exception of a few vendors, most people do not buy stuff in cryptocurrencies. Most do not measure objects in terms of bitcoins, but in dollars, yen and pound sterling. As it currently stands, for the 8 major currencies in the world, the highest rate of inflation is 3% which is the pound sterling. Why would I want to own a cryptocurrency? To make money?

Intrinsically speaking, bitcoin is a valuable medium of exchange. That many people don't currently use it says little about its intrinsic value.

Here is a great analysis of bitcoin as a currency: https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-chara...re-to-that. And yes, he agrees that outside monetary uses bitcoin has no value. (I'm not entirely sure I agree with that one 100%, but it's close enough).

Regardless, he lists 8 generally agreed-upon traits, and 5 disputed traits. Bitcoin meets 6.5 or 8 for general traits. Bitcoin fails at stability and fails partially at general acceptability. Both of those problems could theoretically be solved at some point.

Of the 5 disputed characteristics, bitcoin fails 3.5 of them

Elasticity - Quora author gives bitcoin 0.5 for elasticity. I raised this point in the Warren Buffet threat. This only matters relative to the monetary needs of the economy-- for an economy that isn't growing, elasticity is not important.

Inherent Value - Bitcoin have no value outside of currency use. Personally I do not think this one is important at all. Intrinsic value solves no serious monetary problem in modern economies.

Long History of Acceptance - This one is a real danger with bitcoin. Even if cryptocurrency in becomes generally accepted in general, who is to say that bitcoin itself will remain the most popular and widely used?

Supervised - The author states that bitcoin are unsupervised by design. I think it might be more accurate to say that with bitcoin, supervision is decentralized. Subtle but important distinction.


So yeah, I would say: continuing instability (4) and lack of elasticity (9) interferes with general acceptance (1) while the lack of established history(12) reinforces the idea that it's relatively untested and there may be pitfalls that no one has thought of yet. But apart from that, it has many qualities of a good currency.

[william09]

Thanks for your valuable tips.

[CJ_W]

(11-01-2017 06:48 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

You've given some very good reasons not to invest money you can't afford to lose, and to treat Crypto as high-risk.

You didn't give any good reasons not to invest in Crypto, though.

Thing is, it's not really investing, it's SPECULATION. Investing is putting money in an asset that makes money over time, say a rental property or stock in a good company that pays dividends.

Speculation is pretty much betting that the value of what you buy is going to go up in the future, it's essentially gambling. Also a lot of nefarious groups do something called "pump and dump" They get into something that's either overhyped, or find something and hype it up themselves, buy a bunch of that stock to inflate the price and say "look at this, it's going up and up and up, get in while you can." Then once enough suckers buy the stock/speculative item x they sell it off for a nice handsome profit. while everyone else. . .loses money.

Once something like say, bitcoin gets so popular that everyone and their mother is buying it. . .it's too late to get in. Bitcoin was getting started in 2009 after the economic crash because of the bailouts, I never bought any because it sounded like a scam,(Max Keiser was hyping it a little TOO much back then and I was like "yeah. . .i'll pass on this") did I lose out? Sure, but I ALSO bought gold around that time. . .when it was around $580/oz it's now 3x that much. . .thing is I didn't buy gold to speculate, and plan on holding on to it indefinitely.

Personally, I don't think BTC will replace paper currency 100%. I think that gold and silver will do this. China and Russia have't been spending the last 7-8 years slowly increasing their gold reserves for no reason now. . .

At this point in time, people trying to get in to BTC in hopes of making money through speculation, instead of preserving their purchasing power. A lot of these people seem to have forgotten what happened in 2008.

[SamuelBRoberts]

I'd rather have BTC than gold, gold is a pain to sell, heavy, inconvenient, and easy to steal.