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The Paleo Diet

The Paleo Diet

Quote: (01-22-2013 10:48 PM)Hades Wrote:  

Quote: (01-16-2013 10:36 PM)kbell Wrote:  

*Well the wheat thing is important due to how much issues the modern crop causes outside of celiac. Its a GMO crop being sold as a health food, like soy. Its been so modified its vastly different to the species eaten 40 years before.

*LDL and HDL are not the same. One takes fats to a cell, the other takes them back to the liver and is a different shape and size. You do need both to live. And if your LDL is too high its possible thyroid problem which does make weight loss hard. The thyroid hormones are used to control metabolism. I wouldn't totally discount cholestrol

*Fiber is a joke for digestive issues too. Certain probiotics like kefirs seem to work well. Squats, and lots of water helps too. Over do oil can do it as well. Greasing up the shoot.

This is correct. It's pretty easy to argue that modern high-yield dwarf wheat basically invented the current obesity epidemic if you can accept the premise that the wheat artificially induces appetite. "Whole grain" notwithstanding, pretty much all wheat is nutritional garbage.
I see a few people here stating it, but, I'd love to see somebody actually argue it.
How does making wheat hardier with simple genetic modifications, for the purpose of increasing the overall yield of the crop, radically change the nutritional properties of said wheat?
Gluten content? Starch content?
Please, enlighten me.
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The Paleo Diet

a lot of what paleo says is agreeable:

- meat is good
- saturated fat is not bad
- vegetables are good
- stuffing yourself with lotsa carbs is not the best

but the underlying rule is calories in, calories out, with high protein consumption. sure, some calories can be "empty", but the body needs calories to function and recover, especially under athletic endeavours such as resistance training, which the manosphere also promotes. and if you know that, then what use is a faddish, restrictive diet to you? protein is only useful toward the body's protein synthesis up to a certain amount, after which point it just becomes a more expensive calorie source than carbs.

here are the hodge twins eating nothing but corn bread & protein shakes, ripped out of their minds:






meanwhile mark sisson is using his cookbook money to inject hormones into his glutes like the true caveman he is.
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The Paleo Diet

For your specific question, nobody is sure why hybridizing wheat changes it's properties. All that can be certain about the issues with modern wheat can be determined empirically.

I think that this interview of the guy who wrote the book "Wheat Belly" is pretty good and should answer most of your follow-up questions.

This article makes a few pretty good counter arguments (to the book, specifically) that I think you'd enjoy.
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The Paleo Diet

Warrior diet.
https://www.google.com/search?q=warrior+...ent=safari

Or 'the original diet'.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001P5HSOK (not an affilate)
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The Paleo Diet

Quote: (01-22-2013 11:45 PM)Hades Wrote:  

For your specific question, nobody is sure why hybridizing wheat changes it's properties. All that can be certain about the issues with modern wheat can be determined empirically.
It would seem we have different definitions of the word certain; correlation is not causation.

I'll pass on the book... No offense, I've just heard it all before.
It's mighty peculiar that the only people who happen to be enlightened by the alleged empirical evidence here are anti-GMO pinko nutcases or people in the paleo diet camp (seems an overlap might be emerging, maybe something to keep an eye on).

If there is a correlation to be paid attention to anywhere in all of this, it's that eating refined and processed foods (the vast majority of which all wheat nowadays is) is bad for your health.
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The Paleo Diet

Wheat and grains provide no nutrients that can't be gained elsewhere. They provide only calories, which are necessary, but can be gained from other more nutritious foods.

I'm not entirely convinced about the "Wheat Belly" arguments, either, but what I have tested is that I feel better on rice. It's closer to pure starch without the gluten and other proteins in wheat which may or may not cause problems, and are entirely unnecessary in the diet.

Possibly if I lived somewhere with great bakeries I would experiment with a limited quantity of high-quality whole grains - I believe in keeping it simple and realistic for your lifestyle, and testing on yourself. I can't stress this enough. I could have debated endlessly on whether dairy is OK, but when I went off it as a test I felt great and haven't gone back.

Dr Johnson rumbles with the RawGod. And lives to regret it.
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The Paleo Diet

Tao of diet. Remember paleo does not mean an overdose of over cooked meat. That is devoid of nutrients as well. Try to keep 50% of the diet raw live foods.
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The Paleo Diet

Quote: (01-23-2013 12:09 AM)RawGod Wrote:  

It's closer to pure starch without the gluten and other proteins in wheat which may or may not cause problems, and are entirely unnecessary in the diet.
This is a misconception, as I pointed out in a previous post. All grains/cereals/grasses have some amount of seed proteins in them. Rice, in fact, does have less seed protein content than wheat, but still more than half as much.
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The Paleo Diet

Quote: (01-23-2013 12:19 AM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

Quote: (01-23-2013 12:09 AM)RawGod Wrote:  

It's closer to pure starch without the gluten and other proteins in wheat which may or may not cause problems, and are entirely unnecessary in the diet.
This is a misconception, as I pointed out in a previous post. All grains/cereals/grasses have some amount of seed proteins in them. Rice, in fact, does have less seed protein content than wheat, but still more than half as much.

OK. Change my post to "rice contains no gluten and less seed proteins."

Dr Johnson rumbles with the RawGod. And lives to regret it.
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The Paleo Diet

Quote: (01-23-2013 12:13 AM)MidniteSpecial Wrote:  

Tao of diet. Remember paleo does not mean an overdose of over cooked meat. That is devoid of nutrients as well. Try to keep 50% of the diet raw live foods.

Many vegetables have anti-nutrients or compounds which block the uptake of certain nutrients. IMO slightly cooked veggies are better. Cooking breaks down cell walls releasing nutrients and breaks up compounds that sequester certain nutrients. For example the oxalic acid in raw spinach binds calcium. Cooking disrupts this interaction making more calcium available.
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The Paleo Diet

Over all this thread is a bit:

[Image: epic-jackie-chan-template.png]

I'll certainly listen to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqXgrfrk5cI
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The Paleo Diet

Quote: (01-22-2013 11:58 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

Quote: (01-22-2013 11:45 PM)Hades Wrote:  

For your specific question, nobody is sure why hybridizing wheat changes it's properties. All that can be certain about the issues with modern wheat can be determined empirically.
It would seem we have different definitions of the word certain; correlation is not causation.

I'll pass on the book... No offense, I've just heard it all before.
It's mighty peculiar that the only people who happen to be enlightened by the alleged empirical evidence here are anti-GMO pinko nutcases or people in the paleo diet camp (seems an overlap might be emerging, maybe something to keep an eye on).

If there is a correlation to be paid attention to anywhere in all of this, it's that eating refined and processed foods (the vast majority of which all wheat nowadays is) is bad for your health.

What are you talking about? If I say that it's certain you steadily lose weight (mainly abdominal fat) under the condition of wheat cessation, then correlation (wheat consumption) does imply causation (being a fatass).

You can play lurking variable all you want with a non-statement like "avoid processed foods" but if you get more dramatic results by eliminating all wheat then such is not a significant factor.

There's people who avoid all kinds of empty calories like soda, booze, and what most people consider processed foods, but they still can't lose weight until they remove wheat products. These are the same people who have "tried everything" and gotten no results already. The book and links elaborate on this significantly. Didn't you read any of the links I posted?
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The Paleo Diet

Quote: (01-23-2013 11:23 AM)Hades Wrote:  

What are you talking about? If I say that it's certain you steadily lose weight (mainly abdominal fat) under the condition of wheat cessation, then correlation (wheat consumption) does imply causation (being a fatass).
People lose fat under the condition of carb restriction. Wheat is the most common and plentiful carbohydrate source in our diet, by a long shot... This really needs further explanation?

You stated yourself, "nobody is sure why hybridizing wheat changes it's properties." So what exactly does that leave us with? A supposed trend noted between the rise of GMO wheat crops and obesity... One purely of correlation, postulated by a handful of crackpot authors and bloggers.
If the proponents of paleo can offer no explanation as to why GMO wheat magically makes people get fat (causation), why should anyone take them seriously? It's just another horseshit diet constructed around preconceived dogma.
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The Paleo Diet

Cavemen didn't cook spinach.
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The Paleo Diet

Quote: (01-23-2013 06:47 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

Quote: (01-23-2013 11:23 AM)Hades Wrote:  

What are you talking about? If I say that it's certain you steadily lose weight (mainly abdominal fat) under the condition of wheat cessation, then correlation (wheat consumption) does imply causation (being a fatass).
People lose fat under the condition of carb restriction. Wheat is the most common and plentiful carbohydrate source in our diet, by a long shot... This really needs further explanation?

You stated yourself, "nobody is sure why hybridizing wheat changes it's properties." So what exactly does that leave us with? A supposed trend noted between the rise of GMO wheat crops and obesity... One purely of correlation, postulated by a handful of crackpot authors and bloggers.
If the proponents of paleo can offer no explanation as to why GMO wheat magically makes people get fat (causation), why should anyone take them seriously? It's just another horseshit diet constructed around preconceived dogma.

So in the second link they have this paragraph which is unfortunately missing the graph.

Quote:Quote:

Wheat Intake Is Lower Today Than in the Days of Yore

Dr. Davis's specific targeting of modern dwarf wheat also makes it easier to reconcile his wheat-centric view of obesity to the historical trends in American wheat consumption. Dr. Stephan Guyenet sent me an interesting USDA briefing written by Gary Vocke on the consumption of wheat over the last two centuries (6). Here is a graph showing the change over time:



Like Dr. Davis, Vocke credits the campaign against animal fat and cholesterol for the increase in wheat consumption that began in the 1970s, and the interest in low-carbohydrate diets for the leveling off that occurred after 1997. But we can also see that wheat consumption was much greater in the nineteenth century. These data are especially strong from 1935 onward when the Economic Research Service began monitoring the trend, and we can see that even in 1935 wheat consumption was higher than it is today.

The nineteenth century ushered in not only a greater availability of wheat to people living in regions where it didn't grow well, but also the transition to hard wheat, whose total protein and gluten content is higher than that of soft wheat. The latter decades of that century also ushered in the refining process, which increases the gluten content of flour by removing the germ and concentrating the endosperm. The twentieth century, by contrast, ushered in more sedentary lifestyles that led to a decrease in total food consumption, as well as a more diverse diet as Americans became wealthier and more knowledgeable about nutrition. Both of these factors caused wheat consumption to decline.

If wheat is responsible for the post-1970s obesity epidemic, why didn't it cause an epidemic of even greater proportions a hundred years earlier? It would seem that either wheat itself, the way it is processed, the way we mix it with other foods, or our sensitivity to it has changed. Dr. Davis's proposal that "50 years ago, wheat changed" is one of several explanations that make the notion of a wheat-induced epidemic of obesity much easier to entertain.

You don't think it's worth investigating that people well before the obesity epidemic didn't bother to limit their intake of carbohydrates but were somehow not obese? Even in the context of "activity levels have remained largely constant over the last hundred years"?
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The Paleo Diet

This guy's website 180 Degree Health researches a lot of some of our current dieting trends. He has a lot of contrarian views in regards to what is deemed "healthy" in a diet.

I post this link because the "Mark's Daily Apple Primal diet" completely fucked up my health and some of this guy's advice got me back on track. By limiting carbs and avoiding starches my test levels went to shit, sex drive was non-existent (cost me at least 6 bangs and was incredibly embarrassing), suffered massive panic attacks, insane anxiety, put on 20 pounds, super high cortisol levels, and shat like a pigeon. I thought I just needed to eat more food and eat more fat to adjust. Or maybe I was drinking too much alcohol (hard alcohol....beer was "bad"). Did not work. This was over a 6 month process. I thought I was deficient in some vitamins or zinc or vitamin d, it couldn't be the diet. I scoured Mark's daily apple looking for answers but I just couldn't feel better.

The shitty symptoms disappeared as soon as I started pounding breakfast cereals, bread, and chugging beers. I know this is just n=1 and a lot of people do well on the paleo diet, but to anyone who finds themselves getting some of these symptoms I described, stop eating fat and pound the fuck out of carbs! I don't wish anyone to go through what I did. I've sworn off all diets and gurus, to me it's all bullshit. Just eat less of anything you want, and get in the veggies.
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The Paleo Diet

paleo =/= low carb. i just limit my consumption of grains, because it fucks up my digestion

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The Paleo Diet

Quote: (01-27-2013 06:54 PM)NFallin Wrote:  

I've sworn off all diets and gurus, to me it's all bullshit. Just eat less of anything you want, and get in the veggies.

Exactly ! There is no scientific proof for most of the diets that are being touted by the gurus, low carb, high carb, paleo, Atkins....nothing is proven. But there is certainly a lot of money being made by gurus selling books, giving seminars and what not.
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The Paleo Diet

Quote: (01-27-2013 06:54 PM)NFallin Wrote:  

This guy's website 180 Degree Health researches a lot of some of our current dieting trends. He has a lot of contrarian views in regards to what is deemed "healthy" in a diet.

I post this link because the "Mark's Daily Apple Primal diet" completely fucked up my health and some of this guy's advice got me back on track. By limiting carbs and avoiding starches my test levels went to shit, sex drive was non-existent (cost me at least 6 bangs and was incredibly embarrassing), suffered massive panic attacks, insane anxiety, put on 20 pounds, super high cortisol levels, and shat like a pigeon. I thought I just needed to eat more food and eat more fat to adjust. Or maybe I was drinking too much alcohol (hard alcohol....beer was "bad"). Did not work. This was over a 6 month process. I thought I was deficient in some vitamins or zinc or vitamin d, it couldn't be the diet. I scoured Mark's daily apple looking for answers but I just couldn't feel better.

The shitty symptoms disappeared as soon as I started pounding breakfast cereals, bread, and chugging beers. I know this is just n=1 and a lot of people do well on the paleo diet, but to anyone who finds themselves getting some of these symptoms I described, stop eating fat and pound the fuck out of carbs! I don't wish anyone to go through what I did. I've sworn off all diets and gurus, to me it's all bullshit. Just eat less of anything you want, and get in the veggies.

Bro, I'm with you.

I followed Dave Asprey's advice along with Kiefer's. Bulletproof Coffee in the morning with whey protein, then plenty of healthy meat and veggies based on Asprey's charts. After workouts pound cheap carbs like it's your job. Take a bunch of supplements.

While I definitely shed a lot of weight around my stomach and looked better, for the first time in my life I felt old (I'm 34). My joints would begin aching. My right hand started becoming inflexible. I had brain fog all the time and had much anxiety. My TSH levels became very elevated for the first time in my life.

The worst thing was my cardiovascular health: while I used to do any cardio without issues, I would become extremely winded just walking up a flight of stairs. My heart would pound in my chest. I would frequently get "white outs" after doing some squats or kettlebell swings.

My doctor friends thought I had a faulty heart valve, so I went through a regimen of test, all coming back negative. Cost me a lot of money.

The author at Peak Testosterone eventually convinced me that I should resort to a more plant-based diet. I also read the Blood Diet book and started incorporating some of the suggestions by the author for Type A's (mostly vegetarian).

To tell you I did a complete 180 is no exaggeration. All joint pain has vanished, brain fog has dissipated, anxiety and panic attacks greatly reduced, stamina and endurance have improved dramatically. I feel like me again, whereas three months ago I was coming to terms with the fact that I was just slowing down.
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The Paleo Diet

There is a free Kindle Paleo book for those who have kindle (you can download a kindle reading program for pc also).

http://www.amazon.com/Paleo-Cookbook-For...B00E21SWTY

4 star rating - I downloaded since it is free - but can't vouch for how good it is.

Fate whispers to the warrior, "You cannot withstand the storm." And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm."

Women and children can be careless, but not men - Don Corleone

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