[Rhyme or Reason]

Heroin came back into style around ten years ago or so when the federal government clamped down on abusable pills. It opened the market for a resurgence of heroin due to the insane demand that was left by "Oxycodon Inc".

There's been lots of death, wasted lives, and families destroyed along the way.

[infowarrior1]

New deadlier drug now available:

This shit keeps coming.

[infowarrior1]

(10-04-2017 10:20 AM)scotian Wrote:  

The entire opiod crisis can be traced back to a misused quote out of a medical journal that big pharma used to push oxys and percs onto people with bad backs and knees who could have gotten better with alternative pain management. Once the medical community realized they were creating a generation of zombies, they curtailed it but by then it was too late, the Mexican dope pushers moved in en mass all over the US and specifically targeted methadone clinics to find customers.

Do you think this crisis can be stopped?

[Malone]

(10-05-2017 08:41 AM)scotian Wrote:  

^Apparently you’ve never been to Vancouver which has the most AIDS infested skid row in North America where junkies are dropping like flies from fentanyl over doses, Canada has a major opiod problem from coast to coast.

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.macleans.c...risis/amp/

Honestly that is a self correcting problem right there.

[infowarrior1]

This is a contributing factor in the overall increase of white american mortality in comparison with other groups which look to have decreasing mortality rates:

Quote:

In 2015 Princeton economists Anne Case and Angus Deaton published a stunning finding: The mortality rates for working-age white Americans have been rising since 1999. For mortality rates to rise instead of fall is extremely rare in developed countries except as a result of war or pandemic.

Quote:

However, history does offer a recent example of a large industrialized country where mortality rates rose over an extended period: Russia in the decades before and after the Soviet Union’s collapse. Although there are important differences between the two phenomena, there are also sobering similarities.

https://hbr.org/2017/06/white-americans-...65-to-2005


The collapse of the soviet union also disproportionately impacted those educated at high school at and public whilst sparing those with degrees.


As others previously stated Big Pharma moved in to take advantage of the fertile climate that is the white working class in America mostly. Its also noted that this "Opioid crisis'' is connected to these findings that those statisticians made graphed on the map:





Graphed by Sex:


By Year:



Overall:



http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots...of-despair

[realologist]

(10-04-2017 06:46 PM)realologist Wrote:  

Every generation gets their problem drug. For this generation it's opiates and heroin. The depression, anxiety, lack of purpose and lack of community is what makes that this generations drug of choice. Heroin and opiates have a great way of numbing that psychological pain as well as physical pain if not better. Even if it's only for a short period of time.

And once you're hooked the withdrawal is a bitch. The "dope flu" is a perfect name and people don't like being sick if the cure is so easy. Eat, snort, shoot a little here and back to normal. Why quit? It's the only thing that makes you feel good. The only thing that makes you feel alive. The only way you can escape you own inadequacy and failings as a person.

The only way out is a good, strong supportive social system, other shit you enjoy doing, self reflection and honesty (hardest step), and total personal responsibility. Or you can be tied to a methadone clinic or Suboxone but that doesn't solve anything. The first way I mentioned is hard. Really hard you can just make everything go away in a moment.

And the fentanyl is old news. Now they are cutting it with carfentanyl aka horse tranquilizer. Who knew dealers wouldn't give a shit about their customers. It's not like the doctors are much better passing them out like Skittles. Giving people prescriptions for people that don't want it so when someone offers someone $5+ a pill for some shit they weren't taking anyway of course they are going to sell it.

It's a fucked up situation but people need to take responsibility for themselves, take responsibility for their family and be active in the community and make people feel like they are welcome and a part of it.

To add to this. As much as there is positive on this forum there is a lot of negative and a lot of negative posters. Filled with resentment, anger, depression, hatred, lack of identity and a real or perceived wrong.

That sounds like a poster child for opiates. Even with constant weed smokers with how that slows people down and makes them lazy. If I was a drug dealer that's who I would push them to. Make sure to keep those attitudes and thoughts in check, focus on the positives and enjoy life and you will have no problem with any opiates. Probably won't even like them.

[heavy]

(10-04-2017 11:35 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

...I have no problem with restricting medical care for people who overdose again and again. If you're that stupid to overdose multiple times, it's time to let Darwin do his work and weed out an idiot with a death wish.

The park I walk my dog at is infested with homeless idiots who shoot up. One day a lady came out of her tent shouting for someone to call an ambulance because some dipshit OD'd.

I just kept walking. Not my problem and i'm especially not going to be forced to follow this dumb ass to a hospital because i'm now responsible for some waste of life.

Take some personal responsibility with your damn vices. It's not that hard. The only crisis here is an idiot epidemic of those who can't handle their drugs.

Bingo. The real problem:

https://www.healthcare.gov/coverage/ment...-coverage/

Quote:

All plans must cover...Substance use disorder (commonly known as substance abuse) treatment
...

I have to pay for people who abuse drugs. Fucking bull shit. Not a free market flaw. A forced government flaw.

[The Beast1]

(10-04-2017 09:19 PM)Captain Gh Wrote:  

While I respect everyone's opinion... people who blame this on "idiots" simply just don't know man! Kevin Trudeau talked about this shit before they locked him up! Pain medications... Over The Counter drugs (OTC) rewire the chemistry of your Brain! Once you get affected by it... YOUR BRAIN IS HOOKED!

Once you're there... it's Game Over I don't give a shit who you are! The "idiots" you guys are talking about are the people who relied on Big Pharma's propaganda... and got their Brain rewired! And now he's the Homeless dude bothering you at McDonald's just like that Poof! That's the type of shit YOU'LL NEVER READ ABOUT... since there's WAYYY so much money involved!

I have had various medical procedures done through out the years where I was prescribed percocets and their generics.

Each time I was given 20 to 30 pills and each time I ran through the entire prescription without issue. I even had the audacity to smoke a little herb at the same time. Wowie, that's a fun time. You slip into some sort of cozy cocoon. Lots of fun and slightly terrifying because you can forget to breathe. Take two for twice the fun!

And the best part is? I was not addicted at all when the scripts ran out. What makes another person less capable of making the same decision as me? Shouldn't my brain chemistry have led me down a path of extreme addiction if I used these drugs?

Seems to me a choice was made by those individuals somewhere along the lines to seek out more...

(10-09-2017 11:28 AM)heavy Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 11:35 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

...I have no problem with restricting medical care for people who overdose again and again. If you're that stupid to overdose multiple times, it's time to let Darwin do his work and weed out an idiot with a death wish.

The park I walk my dog at is infested with homeless idiots who shoot up. One day a lady came out of her tent shouting for someone to call an ambulance because some dipshit OD'd.

I just kept walking. Not my problem and i'm especially not going to be forced to follow this dumb ass to a hospital because i'm now responsible for some waste of life.

Take some personal responsibility with your damn vices. It's not that hard. The only crisis here is an idiot epidemic of those who can't handle their drugs.

Bingo. The real problem:

https://www.healthcare.gov/coverage/ment...-coverage/

Quote:

All plans must cover...Substance use disorder (commonly known as substance abuse) treatment
...

I have to pay for people who abuse drugs. Fucking bull shit. Not a free market flaw. A forced government flaw.

Substance abuse is always a choice, never a disorder. Same for alcoholism, opiod addiction, cigarettes, pot, food, and every other addiction out there. The body becomes dependent in many cases, but who was it that opened the door to continue to seek out those drugs after a prescription ran out? Here's a hint: the individual

Those who are addicts deserve the same vitriol we give to those who are overweight. It's the same mechanisms. Once they've been given access to the tools they need to improve, if they refuse or outright fail that's their own fault.

[Samseau]

^ Everyone reacts differently to drugs. Some people get hooked others can enjoy it safely.

I think you're being unmerciful Beast. We don't know the full circumstances of these junkies, some of them deserve their fate but can we really be sure about all of them?

I give money to these types all the time, but never beyond 5 or 10 bucks because I know they will just blow it on drugs. I wonder how their lives fell apart quite often.

The best solution I can think of is that the government can offer to pay addicts medical bills if the addict's rat out their dealers. Once the dealers are caught, they can be used to rat out their dealer or face huge jail time, etc.

The old way to fight drugs was to threaten the addict with jail time, which is inhumane and does not accomplish shit other than stuff up the jail cells. Addicts should be rewarded with treatment, instead of threatened with jail, in exchange for ratting out their dealers.

[Foolsgo1d]

You speak of all junkies not being the same Samseau but can you as an individual take the risk of exposing yourself to them?

They went down that path and stayed on it for a reason.

[The Beast1]

(10-09-2017 02:42 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

^ Everyone reacts differently to drugs. Some people get hooked others can enjoy it safely.

I think you're being unmerciful Beast. We don't know the full circumstances of these junkies, some of them deserve their fate but can we really be sure about all of them?

I give money to these types all the time, but never beyond 5 or 10 bucks because I know they will just blow it on drugs. I wonder how their lives fell apart quite often.

The best solution I can think of is that the government can offer to pay addicts medical bills if the addict's rat out their dealers. Once the dealers are caught, they can be used to rat out their dealer or face huge jail time, etc.

The old way to fight drugs was to threaten the addict with jail time, which is inhumane and does not accomplish shit other than stuff up the jail cells. Addicts should be rewarded with treatment, instead of threatened with jail, in exchange for ratting out their dealers.

How is it unmerciful?

Unless someone was forced into consuming these drugs at gunpoint, they made a choice to consume the drugs and get hooked.

Same goes even if they came from a doctor. Once their prescriptions ran out, they made a conscious decision to go out and seek it well beyond the point of it being medically necessary.

We don't give the same leniency to fat people who use food to inoculate themselves from their own feelings of inadequacy. How are opioid users any different?

My only sympathy are to those who used these drugs long term under the auspices of an ignorant doctor who then become addicted. If this is the case, then the doctor should be reviewed for malpractice especially if someone is consuming pain medication like these for years on end. Rush Limbaugh, in particular, is a good example of this type of bad medicine.

Of course nothing is black and white, I get that especially with my example above. But if you're homeless and consuming opioids to the point of needing resuscitation repeatedly then the fault falls squarely on the user.

[Samseau]

Some people are prescribed, and due to their body chemistry get hooked instantly. Some people come from shit homes, or suffer through a traumatic experience and turn to drugs to numb their pain. It only takes a few mistakes for someone to get started down the path of hopelessness and become a junkie.

While I will not proclaim all junkies innocent I will not proclaim them all guilty either, having no knowledge of their life circumstances. The point of being a good man is to forgive them for their past transgressions and not simply cosign them to death. Perhaps they can be helped, perhaps not, but writing them off is not the best move if in fact some of them can be saved.

"As you forgive, you shall be forgiven."

[Nordwand]

(10-10-2017 09:25 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Some people are prescribed, and due to their body chemistry get hooked instantly. Some people come from shit homes, or suffer through a traumatic experience and turn to drugs to numb their pain. It only takes a few mistakes for someone to get started down the path of hopelessness and become a junkie.

While I will not proclaim all junkies innocent I will not proclaim them all guilty either, having no knowledge of their life circumstances. The point of being a good man is to forgive them for their past transgressions and not simply cosign them to death. Perhaps they can be helped, perhaps not, but writing them off is not the best move if in fact some of them can be saved.



"As you forgive, you shall be forgiven."

A while back, and I can't really remember the article, but I recall reading that most people have a weakness of some sort, that can easily be their undoing, hence seemingly solid, dependable men, well past the usual age for youthful indiscretions, suddenly going spectacularly off the rails.

[The Beast1]

(10-10-2017 09:25 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

The point of being a good man is to forgive them for their past transgressions and not simply cosign them to death. Perhaps they can be helped, perhaps not, but writing them off is not the best move if in fact some of them can be saved.

"As you forgive, you shall be forgiven."

It's called tough love and this world is in massive need of it.

http://www.returnofkings.com/33060/the-g...rule-works

Quote:

When someone says, “Remember the Golden Rule” in an attempt to shame you for standing up for order over chaos, I hope that this little article will give you the confidence to say, “I always do.” Not because you are a passive doormat but because you understand that “Do unto others…” has two valid components: Call for Mercy and Chastisement of the Foolish. The weak and the cowardly deliberately avoid the latter function.

Tarnished Gold
“Do unto others as you would have done unto you.”

For as long as I can remember, and long before I became a chaplain, The Golden Rule has been applied by the weak as a stick to batter the strong. The cringing and narcissistic may set up the paradigm in one of the following ways:

“You can’t call me out for jumping in line because you don’t like being yelled at.” Head-exploding cognitive dissonance is required to ignore that I also wouldn’t want someone jumping in front of me after hours of waiting.

“You have to forgive me for stealing from you because you would want forgiveness.” No. I would want correction for being a thief. And how does calling out your crime, or even punishing you for it, mean I can’t simultaneously forgive you? Nice try.

“Do you want all your problems handled with force? Huh? Well? Do you?” No. Only the ones that require it. It would be an awkward life if we had to slap people for common activities like making a sandwich. I’m not even sure what that question means or how they conflated “resistance to idiocy” with violence.

Since a plurality of churches teach this same false and morally bankrupt interpretation, most of the people you know will agree with the line jumper in the above example. Somehow you are the one who gets stink eye for demanding civil behavior from others. In a mind-bending paradox, you are seen as barbaric. Their twisted take on the Golden Rule requires a deep belief that nothing is inherently worth fighting over and no one has any interest in becoming a better person.

None of this is surprising. The increasingly liberal church has been misquoting, or simply fabricating Biblical concepts for years. I would run out of pixels exploring the judgmental, greedy, emasculating and anti-Biblical teachings found in almost any street corner “church.” Throw a rock and you will hit some clergyman on his money grubbing head who has made a false biblical claim for such obvious fallacies as…

God doesn’t believe in capital punishment
God doesn’t believe in self defense
Using good judgment is the same as being judgmental
All these misinterpretations are deliberate and have a central theme: Standing up for anything is wrong. Standing up forcefully for anything is evil or, more simply, being masculine is wrong. You notice it’s never a biker, cage fighter, fireman, or soldier who pulls this tarnished “gold” out of their asses. It is always the weak, the guilty, and the demonstrably immoral.

As a result, the physically, mentally or spiritually strong members of our society may look at the Golden Rule as a leash, used ruthlessly by the weak and immoral to insure that everyone feels as awful about themselves as they do. Seeing no upside to the scenario, they may opt to ignore the rule entirely and fail to activate its greatest benefit: The instantaneous enhancement of a moral and polite society regardless of faith or religion.

It Doesn’t Mean What You Think It Means
The last time a line jumper got in front of me (with his whole family) I called them all out and told them to get to the back of the line. The beta-male “father” of this group of rude, aggressive douche-hats adopted a threatening pose and told me I had better “relax.”

In my most compassionate and ministerial voice, I told him I would beat him until his skin didn’t fit if he decided to pursue the use of force.

He left and took his brood with him. But what about the crowd of people in line? Did they not appreciate that I stood up for order and common decency? No, they thought I was an asshole and said as much under their collective breath. Any form of resistance is repulsive to the weak. But I didn’t care. I believe in the Golden Rule as it is meant to be practiced. And the truth is; I did that man and his family a favor. They objectively needed to change their abusive and entitled behaviors and discomfort is the only guaranteed method of achieving change.

Just ask anybody who used to be fat.

Slap a fool for Jesus
bodyslam

The upcoming body slam is brought to you by the Golden Rule

If I was mishandling a gun and somebody snatched it from my hand and slapped me in my stupid face before declaring, “What are you trying to do, moron, kill everybody in the fucking room?” I would like to think I would be man enough to know that this Good Samaritan had just Slapped Some Jesus™ into me.

The Prince of Peace was gentle, but not a pacifist. He took a whip to folks and got into at least one recorded brawl. Did He think violence solved problems?

Well, yeah… occasionally. Just read about His forecasted return for further clarification.

I’m not saying that offering a beat-down to every rude person you meet is the way to go. That kind of behavior just advertises deep weakness and insecurity. What I am saying is that calling someone out, when you really need to, for the benefit of themselves and society is exactly what the Golden Rule was written for. When the weak and false-minded assail you with, “Did you have to be so harsh with your nephew? I mean, what about the Golden Rule?” you should be able to stand up and say, “Well, if I was a lying, drug addicted, little turd, I would hope someone would do me the favor of pointing it out. Otherwise that would be a terrible way to go through life.”

[Samseau]

^ I agree with everything in that article, but it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

You're suggesting that all the addicts out there deserve their fate, while I'm suggesting that at least some can be saved. I'm not talking about saving them either by being a pussy and telling them they've done no wrong, either. I'm one of the biggest proponents of tough love you'll ever know.

You're throwing them all under the bus, which is unmerciful. Even God refused to destroy Sodom until he knew all the innocent were out.

[The Beast1]

(10-10-2017 12:28 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

You're suggesting that all the addicts out there deserve their fate, while I'm suggesting that at least some can be saved. I'm not talking about saving them either by being a pussy and telling them they've done no wrong, either. I'm one of the biggest proponents of tough love you'll ever know.

You're throwing them all under the bus, which is unmerciful. Even God refused to destroy Sodom until he knew all the innocent were out.

No, most addicts deserve their fate. Re-read what I wrote previously:

(10-04-2017 11:35 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

How retarded and foolish do you have to be to zonk yourself to the point of passing out, getting revived, and then doing it again?

I have no problem with restricting medical care for people who overdose again and again. If you're that stupid to overdose multiple times, it's time to let Darwin do his work and weed out an idiot with a death wish.

[infowarrior1]

Save who can be saved. Leave the rest to their fate. That's all anyone can do. Lead many to the water of salvation for the sake of the few that will drink.

[The Beast1]

(10-10-2017 06:01 PM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  

Save who can be saved. Leave the rest to their fate. That's all anyone can do. Lead many to the water of salvation for the sake of the few that will drink.

Agreed and i've been too mute on that point due to my anger with having to deal with homeless defecators in my park all of the time (many apologies to Samsaeu for coming off like a d1ck).

The system that I envision would go like this:

1. Guy gets addicted to opiates.
2. Guy ODs on opiates.
3. Gets revived with expensive drug (mentioned earlier in thread).
4. In the hospital, he's told that he has used his get out of death free card and is given two options:
a. Go to rehab, clean up, and never abuse opiods again.
b. Go back to the streets

All with the understanding that if said person ODs again, the paramedics aren't going to administer the drug and let him die peacefully.

[Rhyme or Reason]

Quote:

b. Go back to the streets

They will choose this one every single time.

[infowarrior1]

There are exceptions to this rule of course. The system described by Beast1 is for the sake of the few that do manage to get clean.

[godfather dust]

Speaking as a former oxy addict:

There is treatment available for opioid addiction.

Once my pill habit started distancing me from family and friends I decided that I needed to get off them to not be a scumbag

I got on Suboxone for a couple months. This is a partial opiate agonist that stops withdrawals and blocks other opiates. I used kratom to get off that and cold turkeyed off kratom. Now I'm not on any type of opiate but I get a vivitril shot to block opiates if I get tempted by a free pill or whatever.

There's also methadone which I think is poor treatment but helps some.

Bottom line if you have a moral code that opiates are messing with take one of the many treatments that are available. The only excuse for long term opiate addiction is debilitating pain.

[WalterBlack]

Brand New BBC documentary about heroin addiction presented by one of the best in the business - Louis Theroux:

Quote:

America's love affair with prescription painkillers has led to widespread dependency on opiates. But following a crackdown on their over-prescription, where does this leave the two million Americans who have developed a habit for these high-strength painkillers?

With the pills now becoming increasingly expensive and scarce on the black market, vast numbers of Americans have turned to the cheaper and stronger opiate: heroin. The drug now claims more lives in the US than either car accidents or gun crime. And, for the first time in over two decades, life expectancy in the US is declining - largely attributed to the rise in fatal heroin overdoses.

In Huntington, West Virginia, Louis Theroux embeds himself in an Appalachian community that is being devastated and stretched to its limits by widespread heroin use. With one in ten babies in the city born dependent on opiates and a fatal overdose rate 13 times the national average, this is the epicentre of the most deadly drug epidemic in US history.

Louis spends time with the user community caught in the vice-like grip of drug misuse and follows the emergency services struggling to cope with multiple overdoses each day.

[Paracelsus]

Oh, heroin's back, is it? Thank fuck, I thought we were never going to stop the hyperaggressive bullshit that is the amphetamine epidemic. At least with slightly too little heroin all you do is fucking sleep. With slightly too much amphetamine you have sufficient strength in you that it takes four men to hold you down and your brain literally fries hard enough to turn you into a vegetable for life.

[CynicalContrarian]

Not surprised at the premise :

@thehill 1h

Quote:

Ex-DEA agent: Congress derailed fight against opioid epidemic under pressure from pharmaceutical industry

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/355580-...-crackdown

A former employee of the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) said in a new interview on Sunday that efforts to stem the growing opioid epidemic in the U.S. were derailed by pressure from large pharmaceutical companies and Congress.
Joe Rannazzisi told CBS’s “60 Minutes” that major distributors, including Cardinal Health, McKesson and AmerisourceBergen, allowed drugs to be obtained by rogue pharmacies and pain clinics, which then prescribed them to Americans “who had no legitimate need for those drugs.”
As the opioid epidemic grew steadily worse, Rannazzisi, who at the time was the head of the DEA’s Office of Diversion Control, said he helped launch a crackdown on the companies, which included slapping heavy fines on them.
But Rannazzisi said the drug industry used money and influence to pressure lawyers at the Department of Justice, which oversees the DEA, to go easy on the companies.
The former DEA agent said superiors called him to have him explain his tactics. “And it infuriated me that I was over there, trying to explain what my motives were or why I was going after these corporations?” Rannazzisi said in the interview.
Rannazzisi’s efforts were further complicated in 2013, when a new piece of legislation, written by former DEA employee Linden Barber and backed by the drug industry, began making its way through Congress.
According to the “60 Minutes” report, the bill, introduced in the House by Rep. Tom Marino (R-Pa.) and Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-Tenn.), stripped the DEA of its power to freeze shipments of suspicious narcotics — an essential tool used by the DEA to combat the spread of opioids.
Rannazzisi, who publicly opposed the bill, drew the ire of Marino and Blackburn, who called on DOJ to investigate him for trying to “intimidate the United States Congress,” according to “60 Minutes.”
Rannazzisi was eventually stripped of his responsibilities and resigned, according to the report.
“We were totally focused on all these people dying and all these drugs being diverted. And — and we were not really looking at our flanks, waiting for someone to come after us. So maybe that was my fault,” Rannazzisi said in the interview.

[Rhyme or Reason]

Quote:

Ex-DEA agent: Congress derailed fight against opioid epidemic under pressure from pharmaceutical industry

That article basically describes what happens when money is valued over human life. Those who are supposedly tasked with protecting society from this life destroying shit are willing to kick it under the rug due to "pressure". This is what you get when those in charge have no fundamental morals or even value of life over the dollar. Sickening.