[kavi]

Surprised there is no thread on this yet.

Yesterday TfL (Transport for London) decided not to grant a license to Uber to operate in London. Good news as far as I am concerned.

Ultimately this is a question of large companies taking power away from workers and giving to customers so they can grow and make their shareholders money. The workers lose out, and in most cases these are men. It is the same in other industries.

I would bet that it is mostly women who support Uber as it gives them 'convenience' and we know that is mostly men fighting them as these are most of the black cab and minicab workers.

Uber still has time to appeal and so far a petition in support of Uber has got 500K signatures. It is sad so many do not see the problems and the general undesirability of having a company like Uber operating in your city.

[The Beast1]

(09-23-2017 06:45 AM)kavi Wrote:  

. It is sad so many do not see the problems and the general undesirability of having a company like Uber operating in your city.

And what are those problems exactly? Not paying extortionist prices for the privilege of riding in a cab by driven by a monkey who can't speak english, smell clean, or drive straight? Uber's great. Nothing worse than paying out of the rear end of a stinky cab that takes the long way to get to my destination.

TFL refused to renew their license because Uber failed to provide effective proof that they were not providing background checks , ensuring their drivers had special insurance, and some drivel about corporate responsibility.

It's sounds more like the blackcab unions paid off the right officials this time. Is it me or do I smell a street shitter in all of this?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2...london-tfl

Quote:

The decision by TfL was backed by the London mayor, Sadiq Khan, employment rights campaigners, and the trade body for the capital’s black-cab drivers, who have been staunch opponents of the US-based company.

Oops, Uber's CEO forgot to pay an unelected bureaucrat's bribe. Either Uber's new CEO learns how to grease squeaky wheels or prays that the English justice system treats them fairly. Uber won't be in London for long.

[ivansirko]

Uber is a response to the garbage cab systems that exist. You can only have a cab slot here, only a number of cabs on the street at one time....etc.

If they ban Uber completely in 5 years a new Uber will be in business because the market exists in that fashion. If i want a "cab", hitting a button and a car picking me up quickly is better than waiting for a cab for an hour. Apparently the Socialists in charge of England don't realize you cannot ban a market demand.

[Vaun]

delete

[kavi]

Companies like Uber do nothing but create a race to the bottom. Their drivers earn barely minimum wage. Drivers are human beings and should be treated with respect and dignity. Many drivers sign up with Uber not knowing what they are getting involved with only to find out it is not what is is cracked up to be. Cheaper doesnt always mean better and you need to get out of the mindset that it is all about the customer. Workers having control over their work is what separates free men from slaves.

(09-23-2017 07:05 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Not paying extortionist prices for the privilege of riding in a cab by driven by a monkey who can't speak english, smell clean, or drive straight? Uber's great. Nothing worse than paying out of the rear end of a stinky cab that takes the long way to get to my destination.

Along with black cabs there are many private hire companies in London so you can shop around for the best service/price. Unlike Uber which aims to create a monopoly in the sector.

(09-23-2017 07:05 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Uber won't be in London for long.

(09-23-2017 07:05 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Is it me or do I smell a street shitter in all of this?

Ah, so lame, another keyboard racist. I so wish there was a race war in the UK, I am tired of watching youtube videos of White English guys getting the shit kicked out of them by Pakis.

[scrambled]

↑you drive cab, Rajeev?

[Vaun]

delete

[ivansirko]

(09-23-2017 07:36 AM)kavi Wrote:  

Companies like Uber do nothing but create a race to the bottom. Their drivers earn barely minimum wage. Drivers are human beings and should be treated with respect and dignity. Many drivers sign up with Uber not knowing what they are getting involved with only to find out it is not what is is cracked up to be. Cheaper doesnt always mean better and you need to get out of the mindset that it is all about the customer. Workers having control over their work is what separates free men from slaves.

I agree with this as well however labor laws and the market should take care of the problem. Banning a business is not the solution.

[ivansirko]

Anyways, I didnt mean to interfere with the trolling. Please continue.

[H1N1]

First, it seems totally counter productive, and indeed nasty, to 'punish' a rich company by making 40,000 of its employees who need the job to get by redundant. Who really suffers here, the company worth tens of billions, or the tens of thousands who rely on flexible, autonomous work with low overheads to feed their families, or earn a little extra, legally, on the side?

Also, on the racism thing, it's mostly immigrants who will be affected by the removal of Uber's license, to the extent the company cannot get around what is in essence a minor inconvenience.

In the latest act of incongruence from the left, as far as I can tell, we have a bunch of smug, metropolitan middle class lefties rejoicing at striking a blow against 'capitalist, chauvinist' Uber, by potentially putting lots of working class, hard working (predominantly) migrants out of work. The hypocrisy is so blatant that only a Year Zero type could miss it. One's reminded of George Orwell's criticism in The Road to Wigan Pier where he says that 'the trouble with socialists is that they do not love the poor, they only hate the rich'. They are, to borrow from The Donald, losers.

On a somewhat tangential note, Uber's real problem in the longer term is that their business model was to build this taxi platform to fund their development of autonomous vehicles, as a means of being a major player in the self-driving car market. The fact that they have been completely left behind by the likes of Tesla et al means that they have a hugely inflated valuation, and a bunch of very anxious investors. Uber's long term viability is threatened by much more serious things than local licensing.

[lowhead360]

(09-23-2017 07:36 AM)kavi Wrote:  

Companies like Uber do nothing but create a race to the bottom. Their drivers earn barely minimum wage. Drivers are human beings and should be treated with respect and dignity. Many drivers sign up with Uber not knowing what they are getting involved with only to find out it is not what is is cracked up to be. Cheaper doesnt always mean better and you need to get out of the mindset that it is all about the customer. Workers having control over their work is what separates free men from slaves.

You know Uber drivers are allowed to quit if they don't like the job or the company right?

[Mercenary]

[Sonoma]

Uber will eventually win out, as they're providing a very necessary service.

Complaining that drivers barely earn minimum wage would be an argument for then banning all companies who have employees earning minimum wage

[Repo]

Mixed feelings on this. On one hand I feel like this is complete bullshit and the taxi companies paid someone off, but on the other I know many Uber drivers really are making barely minimum wage (in the US anyway, I don't know about London) and I see Kavi's point that it is a race to the bottom. Still, if Taxi companies are required to be held to a certain standard, Uber should too, but if that standard is unreasonable and was implemented just as a bullshit excuse to make it harder for Uber, it should be changed.

[shameus_o'reaaly]

Interestingly, I saw there was a protest planned concerning this by the Outsourced Workers Union and some allies (interesting, at least to me, because outsourcing is always a contributing part of a race-to-the-bottom when services decline).
Yes, the TfL near-monopoly on cabs in London wasn't ideal at the best of times, but Uber wasn't any kind of a solution.
With any luck, the black cabs can actually improve their service following this, and innovate rather than coasting on their brand.
It will be bad for Uber drivers, but the mayor was a moron to create competition for TfL when it takes FIVE YEARS to pass the Knowledge test in full, and Uber could let you drive for them in under a month (not even that if the stories about buying a background check have any substance).
And Uber's driverless car project would be on a hiding to nowhere in London since TfL was developing a parallel plan for years.
if TfL adopt more ideas from companies like Hailo or mytaxi (which were beating Uber in Europe anyhow) they can combine the flexibility of Uber with the non-shitty service and non-underhand operations that the black cabs already offered. No passenger really minds monopoly, they mind arrogance and inflexible service. And it's not as though there wasn't market share enough for Uber, but if all you can bring to the fore is the fact that you make the cabbie provide the car themselves and have minimal requirements otherwise, what's really changing? ask your buddy who doesn't drink for a lift and give him petrol money and you'd be no worse off.
A side rant, but why was Uber hailed (heh) as a tech company? That designation should be for hardware, not software or apps.

[Repo]

(09-23-2017 09:50 AM)Sonoma Wrote:  

Uber will eventually win out, as they're providing a very necessary service.

Complaining that drivers barely earn minimum wage would be an argument for then banning all companies who have employees earning minimum wage

When everyone competes to pay the lowest wages, the economy as a whole suffers. Look at Walmart for example. At minimum wage levels, the government is effectively subsidizing the employees wages, so if you are a fan of smaller government, the race to the bottom should not be in your interests.

It is a hard act to balance, you want to encourage business, but you also want to encourage higher wages, resulting in a stronger economy with less need for government assistance. When companies cut wages to pay higher dividends, sure the stock market goes up but the job market suffers.

[Samseau]

(09-23-2017 07:36 AM)kavi Wrote:  

Companies like Uber do nothing but create a race to the bottom. Their drivers earn barely minimum wage.

And yet the same people who banned Uber support open borders and free trade.

They make token support of the working class by banning the largest employer of the working poor, but god forbid we stop flooding the labor market with starving third-worlders and multi-national corporations from raping the planet with slave labor in Asia.

All hypocrisy and lies, this move to ban Uber is pure bullshit. No one gives a fuck about the workers, otherwise you'd see this attitude reflected in immigration and trade policies.

[Malone]

These cabbies think it's bad now, it'll be fun to see what happens when they start having to compete with self driving cars.

[Sonoma]

@Repo, I definitely agree with the issue of government subsidizing businesses that pay minimum wage.

For Uber however, that's not necessarily the case, especially for drivers who only drive on the side, and aren't driving brand new leases. I have a few friends who drive reasonably old and cheap per mileage vehicles (5-10 grand value) only during peak hours, and pull in pretty good hauls. Once Uber fixes their tipping issue, and drivers will make even more.

In a lot of cities, such as NYC, the cab's and the Ubers charge about the same, sometimes with cabs being significantly cheaper during peak hours. I imagine London is similar.

The real appeal for Uber is in cities that have somewhat of a nightlife, but are driveable enough that people own cars. Try getting a cab at night in some small cities, and you'll be waiting for hours. With Uber, there's people who can choose to only drive during the times that the service is needed (10pm-2am), on top of their normal jobs. 30 an hour before costs isn't uncommon, and if you're not sitting in a 2017 luxury lease you'll be fine

[Captainstabbin]

(09-23-2017 07:36 AM)kavi Wrote:  

Companies like Uber do nothing but create a race to the bottom.

Driving down costs to consumers isn't a bad thing.

(09-23-2017 07:36 AM)kavi Wrote:  

Drivers are human beings and should be treated with respect and dignity.

Of course they should be. And banning 20,000 potential drivers isn't respectful.

(09-23-2017 07:36 AM)kavi Wrote:  

Many drivers sign up with Uber not knowing what they are getting involved with only to find out it is not what is is cracked up to be.

So they can quit.

(09-23-2017 07:36 AM)kavi Wrote:  

Cheaper doesnt always mean better and you need to get out of the mindset that it is all about the customer.

If a business wants to survive, it's always about the customer.

(09-23-2017 07:36 AM)kavi Wrote:  

Workers having control over their work is what separates free men from slaves.

Again, quit if they don't like it. That's the option free men have.


Of course this is London. Don't they still have subsidies for ferry operators to offset lost income from building the old London bridge in the 1200s?

[Constitution45]

I am in two minds about this. On one hand, black cabs are a dying trade, those men still need to learn the 'knowledge' which is essentially every road in London. At the same time, the fees that they are charge, mostly are absolutely extortionate. Uber taxis have saved my skin on many occasions, when I needed to rush from one side of the city to the other side.

I reckon the level of illegality that occurs among Uber taxis is quite high, its not really detected by the police. On top of that, most of the uber taxi riders barely speak English. They are often recent immigrants from different parts of the world, relying solely on a GPS to go to the most simple destinations. No wonder black taxi drivers are now pissed off.

[John Michael Kane]

Cabs suck for all the reasons The Beast1 mentioned in his post above. It is a protectionist government racket. Uber also sucks because they are trying their best to put as many people out of business once self-driving cars become a thing. They are not some saintly enterprise. The rider experience is much better, but they are still a Silicon Valley company at heart, and hardly some folk hero. Still, it is better that they are around, because there needs to be more competition in the marketplace. Sadly, the other alternative, Lyft is also an SJW company. Ideally, there'd be a non-SJW rideshare app, but I've yet to see it.

[rpg]

Self driving cars on public roads will never be a thing no matter how much people try. A moving car has to be under the legal responsibility of someone. Someone that can be arrested, jailed and sued. When a driverless car runs a kid over who is going to jail? There will be no work around for this.

[Cattle Rustler]

I just hate how now I'm supposed to tip Uber drivers...fucker, if you don't like what you make go find another job. I never had to carry cash to tip you and I don't need to now. Some drivers will give you a 1* rating if you don't give a tip.

[scrambled]

↑ I thought they have to rate you before knowing if you tipped?