[PapayaTapper]

From a couple years ago. Ghetto ass bish gets tazed starting at about 3:10

Not really relevant but funny nonetheless.

[Suits]

(09-19-2017 01:37 PM)Kona Wrote:  

US cops have taken this "I have a right to protect myself" crap too far. Stand and fight. We have pussified cops to the point that that has been forgotten. Take some type of risk so everybody lives.

With respect to your genuine experience with life and death, I think the issue here is not fully with cops personal beliefs, but more so the training they receive.

Employers of police do not like the idea of their officers getting killed in the line of duty. This is bad for a number of reasons, including morale, the potential of lawsuits from family members and negative publicity.

Even if some cops would prefer to take on more risk when dealing with an unstable and suicidal subject, policy forbids it.

[Easy_C]

I will say without having seen the video, the big determinant in how you handle something like that is distance.

If the guy is in charging range and the situation is escalated to where he is going to (actively bellicose, has the knife out, etc) then it is a lethal threat and should be met with lethal force.

If not then try to maintain that distance. If they start running at you and get within it then the former applies. How to handle it in a police/military setting depends on the equipment you have on hand. Hopefully you will have a long-range means of subduing the guy from a safe distance. If not you either succeed in keeping him at that distance until you can subdue him (pepper,gas,Taser with enough range) or he gets close to be a lethal threat and you're forced to react with lethal force.

[Mekorig]

(09-19-2017 01:37 PM)Kona Wrote:  

To all you guys saying "well have you ever fought someone with a knife?" Or something similar, you seem to be talking about one-on-one situations.

I count six cops there. There was no reason to shoot that kid.

And again to all the guy who say "have you ever been in combat" or something similar, I have to wonder if you really have.

If so, you would realize death is horrible. Killing is horrible. Anyone who's been there would know how important it is to keep EVERYONE alive.

There were a lot of opportunities in that video to use less than lethal force to take that kid down. Anyone with any training can see that.

US cops have taken this "I have a right to protect myself" crap too far. Stand and fight. We have pussified cops to the point that that has been forgotten. Take some type of risk so everybody lives.

This is just another stupid move by people who are supposed to be held to higher standards.

Aloha!

Kona, is not about "pussified cops" or whatever. If you have a mentally deranged knife-weilding hobbo, or a junkie on PCP with a knife, you apply the Tueller drill. The moment the suspect have a weapons and have the capacity to injure, maim or kill an officer, the use of force for self-protection is aceptable. Killing is horrible, i agree, but when you have to do it to protect yourself, you have to do it. You can not force the police officer to be altruistic or suicidal.

[John Michael Kane]

What is really the untold story is how this individual's mental illness was encouraged and sanctioned by all the non-binary gender types out there who goaded these mentally unstable types to "speak out", instead of getting them to mental healthcare professionals. In a sane world, the sane people don't indulge the mentally ill, they get them treatment.

[Transsimian]

Regretful post-ops tend to be suicidal but he seemed to be pre-op with a strong social circle.

I'm not going to celebrate the death of an eccentric kid, my thoughts go out to his parents.

[BoiBoi]

Why not do something like those cops here?

[redpillage]

(09-19-2017 09:15 AM)roberto Wrote:  

UK policing might be too soft sometimes (perhaps often), but if lethal force is genuinely required they can dish it out professionally. At times like these I'm thankful our police aren't like the US force.

Yeah, you're right. In the U.S. we wouldn't let tens of thousands of young girl be 'groomed' and abused for over a decade without taking action. So with all due respect, you can keep your U.K. style of policing.

[mickeyd]

Based on the video, a less than lethal option (taser/rubber projectile) would have been appropriate. The suspect was either standing or moving slowly for long periods and there were multiple cops for lethal force backup.

edit: just read an article that they werent issued tasers so thats out the window. Nothing the officers could do except end the stand off.

[redpillage]

(09-19-2017 01:37 PM)Kona Wrote:  

To all you guys saying "well have you ever fought someone with a knife?" Or something similar, you seem to be talking about one-on-one situations.

I count six cops there. There was no reason to shoot that kid.

And again to all the guy who say "have you ever been in combat" or something similar, I have to wonder if you really have.

If so, you would realize death is horrible. Killing is horrible. Anyone who's been there would know how important it is to keep EVERYONE alive.

There were a lot of opportunities in that video to use less than lethal force to take that kid down. Anyone with any training can see that.

US cops have taken this "I have a right to protect myself" crap too far. Stand and fight. We have pussified cops to the point that that has been forgotten. Take some type of risk so everybody lives.

This is just another stupid move by people who are supposed to be held to higher standards.

Aloha!

Actually we train one on one and one against many, but that's really beside the point. I think many of you critical of the lethal action taken by the officer simply have no understanding of the level of personal harm police and security personnel is facing on almost a daily basis. Over the course of your career it only takes one single mistake or a lost second to seriously get injured for life, potentially paralyzed, or perhaps even killed.

Police brutality simply exists and in most cases needs to exist because officers and security personnel are forced to expose themselves to the most violent low life crack smoking scum of the earth. It is extremely easy to judge these situations sitting in front of a keyboard in the comfort of your own home. In short, you simply have no appreciation of the realities on the ground.

[redpillage]

(09-19-2017 03:34 PM)BoiBoi Wrote:  

Why not do something like those cops here?

Believe it or not, here in Spain there are actually attempts to legally go after that officer for 'police brutality'. No joke, I have friends who are Spanish police officers and they are following this case very closely as they increasingly are having to deal with these type of 'clientele'.

As I've stated in a prior comment: The Left continues to raise the bar of responsibility whilst shifting guilt from the attacker to the victim, especially if it happens to be a police officer. It's a game that has slowly come to full fruition over here in Europe, with the result that there are now hundreds of no-go zones all over Europe that police forces are unable to enter without being accompanied by large SWAT teams.

[Off The Reservation]

Knivesforthey.com

Featuring:

Knives where you hold the blade and try to beat your opponent with the handle.

Knives that are painted differnet colors to express your feelings in a conflict. (Just ask your opponent for time to switch out colorful parts.)

Knives that identify as sex toys (so you can take them aboard airplanes since its not fair that they take away your toy.)

Knives that that are made from two blades and no handle.

Knives that are made of two handles and no blade

10 percent off today only for campus activists.

[kinjutsu]

Two thoughts...

1. It's very unfortunate that this person felt the need to end their life by cop. And someone how they were lead to believe all the non-binary gender bs is real and helpful. With the history of suicide attempts and 3 suicide notes found, it makes a clear cases of severe mental health issues.

2. There are way too many Monday morning/arm chair quarterbacks thinking a mentally unstable/suicidal person with a knife is something that you should play around with.
You have been watching too many action movies to think under pressure a person with police officer training is going to shoot the arm or shoulder or someone moving around and not kill the person or hit a bystander.
Never mind using a baton or some type of striking object to knock the weapon from their hand.

[BoiBoi]

(09-19-2017 04:08 PM)redpillage Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 03:34 PM)BoiBoi Wrote:  

Why not do something like those cops here?

Believe it or not, here in Spain there are actually attempts to legally go after that officer for 'police brutality'. No joke, I have friends who are Spanish police officers and they are following this case very closely as they increasingly are having to deal with these type of 'clientele'.

What? You have to be kidding. Since the dude appears to be a knife-wielding terrorist on a mission, using lethal force would have been more than understandable. Especially given the recent developments in Europe. Those guys handled the situation exceptionally well and should be awarded a medal or something.

[Beyond Borders]

(09-19-2017 03:34 PM)BoiBoi Wrote:  

Why not do something like those cops here?

One guy got his finger cut. Outnumbered or not, I could see it just as easily being a "nick" to the gut tackling a man with a blade that way.

[GlobalMan]

When I took the state required course for my Permit to Carry we did the 21 foot knife scenario. I was chosen to be the knife wielding maniac with the rubber knife. I stood 21 feet from a classmate who would have a holstered firearm, repeated this 4 or 5 times.

That day I killed a grandpa, a delicious-if-edging-on-thick girl of Norwegian descent, a Harley riding dude, and the instructor.

The point of the exercise was to show exactly that, and to also teach that in such scenarios you should be taking a big step(s) to the side as you draw in one motion- it puts more distance between you and him, it gets you off the X he was aiming at, and makes you a moving target while still facing the threat. When they tried that, the grandpa and the instructor shot me, but even then - because of momentum - I still landed potentially fatal stab wounds. The point is, there is no safe scenario inside 21 feet when facing a knife. You are under a deadly threat, period.

Now, with a firearm already drawn you will of course be able to get a shot off, but again unless it's a head shot people don't just stop in their tracks or lose cognitive function instantly. Some won't even be fazed for several seconds or minutes.

It's hard to take judgement on those officers. Perhaps with a number of them and time and the equipment they could have done something different and non-lethal. But it doesn't seem like they had even two of those three things. In the end all they can do is deal with the situation as it unfolds in the moment. They don't get to watch a video of the scenario beforehand and draw up a plan.

[Uruz]

(09-19-2017 04:46 PM)BoiBoi Wrote:  

What? You have to be kidding. Since the dude appears to be a knife-wielding terrorist on a mission, using lethal force would have been more than understandable. Especially given the recent developments in Europe. Those guys handled the situation exceptionally well and should be awarded a medal or something.

Oh, you Brits.... You will never learn, will you? Now Spanish taxpayers have to feed another terrorist, but in prison. Medals and shit!

Note that if they deport him or he is in prison he will still continue his pro-ISIS activity, guys are in it for life, it's not a Gentlemen's Club.

[Scoundrel]

People tend to place guns & knives on two different levels in their mind. If they hear that someone has a gun, to them that counts as a serious threat. A knife doesn't seem so bad. People see it as "less than a gun." There's the old saying about bringing a knife to a gunfight, implying that the knife is the punier weapon, and therefore not as dangerous.

Knives can be every bit as deadly as guns, even more so, depending on how they're used. And sometimes guns aren't all that deadly. ER workers will tell you stories about gang members who were shot multiple times who survived.

There's an assumption that if someone has a knife, they have to be in very close proximity to you to inflict damage. But the knife isn't glued to the suspect's hand — everyone forgets that knives can be THROWN. Watch the first minute of this video to get an idea of the impressive distance & accuracy a knife-thrower can get:

[Laska]

Unless you're a psychopath, killing someone is really hard. That's what everyone who's done it says about it. It makes sense: people can sense pain in others. Some end up with PTSD because it isn't biologically natural to kill your own species.

In other words, this policeman will continually endure the biological stress of that day. Here are two victims of the culture war. With regards to the one who was killed, even Shakespeare couldn't write something so tragic in nature.

[Constitution45]

(09-19-2017 03:34 PM)BoiBoi Wrote:  

Why not do something like those cops here?

There is about 8-10 of them there, so they felt that they could deal with it differently. Usually as a rule, the more officers you have restraining a suspect, the more safer it is for everyone, including the person being restrained most of all; as the force dissipates.


Equally so, if you are going to pro actively defend yourself against a knifeman in hand to hand combat or using a baton, you are going to get stabbed or slashed at some point. It does not take much to get nipped at a vital artery.

Shooting a suspect in the foot or arm, does't do anything anyway. You are taught to aim at the biggest target to take them out. There is a 70% chance of fatality if you shoot them in the torso. Shooting them in the leg or arm, would mean that i could easily pass through and hit someone else. Or they will just keep on going.

Although these people may not be supermen, its quite common to encounter dramatically increased strength and just no awareness to pain. if the suspect has taken drugs, mentally ill, or going through some medical emergency. Then there are some people who are just insanely strong.

Point in point, like most police around the world, you are allowed to use force that is deemed as proportionate at the time; if you genuinely feared imminent violence to you or someone else, you can basically do what you want to prevent that.

I am not talking about you in this post, but the police in U.K is having a serious issue with officers simply not using force anymore. And it comes from the training given in training schools where they are having the fear of god put into them that they will be sued for laying a finger on someone. Unfortunately too many people on too many occasions who have little or no experience in the real world have been able to dictate to the police what they can or can't do.

[puckerman]

I don't know if we can look at mental illness among college students without looking at the fact that many kids show up at college having already spent many years on various prescription drugs. They are diagnosed with ADD or some other bullshit. They go to a doctor, and the doctor puts the kids on Ritalin or whatever. By the time they get to college, they have no idea what it is like to be mentally healthy. It is also entirely possible that these kids stopped taking their drugs as soon as they got out of mom and dad's care. This could be a reaction to that.

I feel sorry for this guy.

Maybe he was also sad because George P Burdell only fucks females?

[MikeInRealLife]

(09-19-2017 05:52 PM)Laska Wrote:  

Unless you're a psychopath, killing someone is really hard. That's what everyone who's done it says about it.

No it's not and no they don't. I was in the Army for 11 years and know dozens of men who have killed the enemy. One in particular stands out because he killed around a dozen insurgents in a single firefight (he was a gunner). The guy is fine, completely well adjusted, came home and married a hot girl and started popping out babies. Tons of other men I know have killed the enemy and feel very good about it. I also know men who were very upset by the fact that they deployed yet never had the opportunity to directly engage the enemy.

Yes, there are some with PTSD, but that's generally not from the act of killing. It's more related to life under that kind of constant pressure, seeing friends get killed or maimed, and/or brain trauma from explosions. And frankly, some of it is malingering and attention-whoring. Hollywood and our feminized "share your feelings" culture don't help, either.

Here's the thing. The supposed "trauma" of a man killing doesn't come from the act of killing. It comes from, as Massad Ayoob put it, your reaction to society's reaction to you having killed a person. If your society/tribe/in-group/whatever doesn't think killing is a bad thing, then you won't generally suffer any negative feelings about it. If you're treated like a monster for even a justified killing, then yeah, you're probably going to develop some negative baggage.

Men have been killing other men for millennia. It's perfectly natural. Of course we can argue if this...person...who got itself shot can be considered a man.

[The Beast1]

(09-19-2017 03:34 PM)BoiBoi Wrote:  

Why not do something like those cops here?

Because cucks like yourself have defanged European police officers from carrying a weapon.

You can bet if those Spanish cops had guns, they would have unloaded on him the second he pulled that knife out.

[Laska]

MikeInRealLife, David Grossman, the Navy psychologist who's books on the psychology of killing and combat are required reading at the FBI Academy, West Point, and for Marine officers, would disagree with you. As one example, he pointed out that in Marshal's study of the willingness of American soldiers to kill, that only 2% had fired their weapons at a visible enemy when presented the opportunity. Lt. Col. Grossman interviewed thousands of military members and policeman who had killed, he studied history, and the available literature, and found that it had massive consequences on the mind. Now sure, it doesn't mean someone's going to get full on PTSD from it (that would only be small number), and of course almost all of these people lead normal lives, but the act of killing is extremely unpleasant. There's a biological barrier to it.

Killing is sometimes the right thing to do (like here), but it doesn't make it easy.

[Conscious Pirate]

Identifies as non-binary. Prefers they/them pronouns.

Walks towards cops & says "shoot me".

Ha!