[Suits]

Required to Buy the Most Expensive Betrothal Gifts in China, Beijing Men Are Simply Saying No

http://www.thebeijinger.com/blog/2017/09...-saying-no

Quote:

Despite their reputation for being the best boyfriends in China, 80 percent of Beijing's unmarried men are drawing the line when it comes to meeting the demands of their partners for exorbitant betrothal gifts, described as the most expensive in the country, ranging between 110,000 and 200,000 yuan ($16,600 and $30,300).

Now, keep in mind, the average annual income public sector employees in Beijing is 102,268 yuan ($16 475), with the average private sector salary sitting at just over half of that.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2015-...020693.htm

Quote:

That's just one of many statistics revealed in an online survey conducted by Chinese dating website Zhenai.com that studied the preferences of its unmarried male and female users.

As much as Beijing men are unwilling to comply, Beijing women are also stubbornly maintaining their high expectations. The survey also revealed that two-fifths of single women surveyed have been told their standards are too high, making Beijing the second-most common place for these women to live after Shanghai.

Chinese people don't believe in compromise. You can imagine how well this works out when women with a useless (but respectable) university degree (who being women, believe that their pussies are made out of solid gold) look for spouses.

Quote:

When it comes to potential wedding partners, single Chinese women rate themselves more highly than their counterparts. More than half of single women surveyed thought their boyfriends were not good enough for them with almost two-thirds believing their boyfriend's family background and education was inferior to their own, while almost two-fifths consider their partner's "face value" to be sub-par.

Unless there's a huge trend towards powerful, successful families with money and objectively good genetics are having girls instead of boys, this seems to point to women over-estimating their value and status.

Quote:

By contrast, one-fifth of unmarried Chinese men have been told their expectations are too high.

And in light of the difficulty of finding a marriage partner, Beijing men have distinguished themselves from their peers as being the most "emotionally resourceful" when it comes to dating.

Today's younger generation finds some Chinese traditions to be too old-fashioned, namely the wedding customs of having the bride's family ritually cry during the ceremony as well as allowing guests to publicly shame the bridal couple as seen in sensational online stories. Although highly-ranked as the "most unwanted customs to happen during a wedding," a major difference lies between the two sexes in the top three: "no betrothal gift" is the third most-hated wedding pet peeve for single Chinese women, while "too expensive betrothal gift" is the top complaint for single Chinese men.

Coinciding with Qixi Festival celebrations that are regarded as "Chinese Valentine's Day," the survey attracted plenty of attention online, with the top comments reflecting the uninspiring trends of China's unmarried adults.

The top comment on Caijing's Weibo post about the survey that garnered some 22,000 upvotes was a condemnation of both Chinese men and women, simplifying the results as: "Women want to find a way to support themselves, while men want to bring home a nanny to take care of them!"

Sure....

Quote:

The second-most popular comment, with 12,000 upvotes, was just as bleak: "There aren't any unmarried men willing to pay a 100,000 yuan betrothal gift with a 120-square-meter mortgaged apartment. No need to talk about mutual feelings since no one owns a house or has any money. Getting married is bad for the wife and any children you have."

If you can't buy me a house, you have no value.

Quote:

The next most popular comment attempted to offer a simple truth: "The reason for wanting such high betrothal gifts is because the law does not protect a woman in her marriage. On the other hand, men stand to profit from getting married."

Actually, it does. A woman in China is entirely entitled to a fair share of anything she contributed to the family assets.

Quote:

These pessimistic attitudes of commenters reflect an unstoppable trend that will shape all Chinese relationships in the years to come. Current estimates say Chinese men will outnumber women by 15 million by 2020, and 30 million by 2050. By 2027, the number of unmarried Chinese men will be twice that of unmarried Chinese women.

This article brought a smile to my face.

[Belgrano]

If 1 entitled Chinese middle class pussy is worth $15,000 and a mortgaged 120 m² apartment, then apparently I banged millions of dollars' worth of pussy for free.
I should write a book about it and call it "The Art of the Deal".

[Foolsgo1d]

I watched a video of some guy offing himself in a Chinese mall straight after his GF throwing a tantrum over him not buying her something expensive. Dragon ladies sure have it good.

[RedBeanWarrior]

I'm laughing, this thread pops up just as I was roasting Asians in general and Shanghai in particular (thread-58648...pid1641246)

Glad my Beijing brothers are manning the fuck up and saying no to these bitches. One-child policy be damned, if all you got are fat, entitled pandas to fuck, better to join a Shaolin monastery and kick ass (a sect that lets you drink and eat meat if you can). Death before dishonor.

[Number one bummer]

Sounds like they didn't drown enough of them at birth. The ultimate shit test.

[kmhour]

(09-04-2017 03:39 AM)Suits Wrote:  

Quote:

These pessimistic attitudes of commenters reflect an unstoppable trend that will shape all Chinese relationships in the years to come. Current estimates say Chinese men will outnumber women by 15 million by 2020, and 30 million by 2050. By 2027, the number of unmarried Chinese men will be twice that of unmarried Chinese women.

This article brought a smile to my face.

why does this article bring a smile to your face? the passage you quoted clearly states that men in China outnumber women by a substantial margin which will only increase over time. unmarried women are to become an increasingly scarce commodity. and as basic economic theory holds, the scarcer the supply, the greater the price.

I'm glad that Chinese men are wising up, but the article doesn't seem to suggest Chinese women are becoming much less intractable, and demographics would seem to indicate they have little motivation to do so and even less motivation moving forward.

[nomadbrah]

Yeah, the lack of women in China can't be good for anything.

[Samseau]

I hear the "female shortage" in China is actually just a result of the Chinese cheating the official government stats and hiding girls that were born during the one-child rule period. So do not trust the official stats of how bad things may be for the Chinese man.

As for women becoming spoiled princesses who are too good for anyone, sometimes I think that money is so intoxicating that even if women outnumbered men 3:2 it wouldn't make a difference. The girls would claim there aren't enough men and that the men have it too easy, therefore they wouldn't get married. Nothing but excuses for spoiled women, doesn't matter what the circumstances are.

[John Michael Kane]

There's a reason why Chinese men import foreign women. Chinese women, especially those from larger urban areas, have a long and storied reputation of being spoiled brats. I dated one for a while, she fit the stereotype perfectly. There might be some rural Chinese girl who makes a great, sweet, girlfriend/wife, but you better get her before the city corrupts her, just like in the West.

[CRR]

Purely anecdotal, but I think this happens in the US too.

I can spot the point in at least one relationship when it started going downhill was when I was told how much I was expected to spend on an engagement ring. I know of at least a few men who have experienced the same. Several years ago a friend of mine got pissed at me when he told me how much he spent and asked if I thought he spent too much. I said yes, especially considering he didn't have a lot of money. A few years ago one friend told me that his gf was expecting him to spend $20k. While others in our group (men and women) hemmed and hawed, a few saying 'well, that's a little much', I remember saying "you offer strength of character, fitness, a solid bank account, and are enjoyable to be around. She brings mediocrity that will only get worse". I thought he'd resent me, but he actually thanked me. He's moved on to much, much better.

I'm not cheap, but I don't put up with this entitled crap from women that our society seems to be ok with. A great quality that I often mention is a woman who is pleasant. I'd add, a woman who appreciates what she has. They are few and far between.

Speaking of, if we're all for equality, come wedding/engagement time, where is our fucking gift?

EDIT: In regards to China, someone posted a video a while back regarding marriage in China. If I recall, it was a bunch of women complaining about not being able to meet 'quality' men. Of course the video failed to mention that these women were mediocre at best. But society fails women on two fronts. It tells them that they are all beautiful and perfect, and then when reality hits and they can't deal with it, they blame it on men. Apparently only women should have free will to choose their mates.

[John Michael Kane]

The marketplace ultimately makes the final determination of value. You're only able to attract AND KEEP potential mates at, or near, your own value. Men and women that try to punch way above their weight class usually get burnt by someone who was not really attracted to them, but rather using them for some temporary purpose. If LTR/marriage is the game, it is best to make a brutally honest assessment of your own market value and target those mates that can appreciate you on your own merits, not an inflated sense of self-worth. As the old saying goes, pride commeth before the fall.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(09-04-2017 12:13 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

I hear the "female shortage" in China is actually just a result of the Chinese cheating the official government stats and hiding girls that were born during the one-child rule period. So do not trust the official stats of how bad things may be for the Chinese man.

As for women becoming spoiled princesses who are too good for anyone, sometimes I think that money is so intoxicating that even if women outnumbered men 3:2 it wouldn't make a difference. The girls would claim there aren't enough men and that the men have it too easy, therefore they wouldn't get married. Nothing but excuses for spoiled women, doesn't matter what the circumstances are.

No - women - young women under 30 - outnumbering men tremendously always more obedient, more marriage-focused, more feminine women.

The end 1950s in the US had a male shortage numbering into the millions - caused by wars, depression during the depression, still tough labor conditions (many died in factories and dangerous work environment). Women regularly poached other men's husbands and male cheating was the norm for any man with some ability.

Ideally all societies should have a 20% overhang of women. If that were the case in China, then you would see the demands going down tremendously - tradition or not.

China has entered into an actual positive eugenics model where many successful men have one wife and in addition a girlfriend or two. Sometimes those mistresses even have children. Also you can buy your way into having more than one kid. I don't think that this is a bad idea.

But Game trumps everything:


The 17-girlfriends gigolo - most of the girls paid him money.

[Transsimian]

(09-04-2017 12:13 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

I hear the "female shortage" in China is actually just a result of the Chinese cheating the official government stats and hiding girls that were born during the one-child rule period. So do not trust the official stats of how bad things may be for the Chinese man.

That, and the average Beijing man is a lot taller and wealthier than most of China. The female shortage screws poor farmers, not rich citydwellers.

[Brosemite]

(09-04-2017 02:24 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

The marketplace ultimately makes the final determination of value. You're only able to attract AND KEEP potential mates at, or near, your own value. Men and women that try to punch way above their weight class usually get burnt by someone who was not really attracted to them, but rather using them for some temporary purpose. If LTR/marriage is the game, it is best to make a brutally honest assessment of your own market value and target those mates that can appreciate you on your own merits, not an inflated sense of self-worth. As the old saying goes, pride commeth before the fall.

All very good points.

For men that have their head straight & play the cards well however, their "own market value" is something that can be worked on.

[John Michael Kane]

(09-04-2017 02:37 PM)Brosemite Wrote:  

(09-04-2017 02:24 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

The marketplace ultimately makes the final determination of value. You're only able to attract AND KEEP potential mates at, or near, your own value. Men and women that try to punch way above their weight class usually get burnt by someone who was not really attracted to them, but rather using them for some temporary purpose. If LTR/marriage is the game, it is best to make a brutally honest assessment of your own market value and target those mates that can appreciate you on your own merits, not an inflated sense of self-worth. As the old saying goes, pride commeth before the fall.

All very good points.

For men that have their head straight & play the cards well however, their "own market value" is something that can be worked on.

Yes, you're absolutely correct that man should try to improve his value (working out at the gym, better his financial situation, read more books, etc.) such that he can attract a high-quality woman without "faking it". There's something very satisfying about attracting a great quality woman for a LTR who you aren't pretending to be someone you're not. Genuine confidence comes from repeated success in life. A man needs to focus on himself first, then the high-quality women come into his orbit more naturally. This is especially true if you're aiming for LTR/marriage/kids.

[Higgs Bosun]

(09-04-2017 03:39 AM)Suits Wrote:  

Quote:

When it comes to potential wedding partners, single Chinese women rate themselves more highly than their counterparts. More than half of single women surveyed thought their boyfriends were not good enough for them with almost two-thirds believing their boyfriend's family background and education was inferior to their own, while almost two-fifths consider their partner's "face value" to be sub-par.

Unless there's a huge trend towards powerful, successful families with money and objectively good genetics are having girls instead of boys, this seems to point to women over-estimating their value and status.
............

............

Quote:

These pessimistic attitudes of commenters reflect an unstoppable trend that will shape all Chinese relationships in the years to come. Current estimates say Chinese men will outnumber women by 15 million by 2020, and 30 million by 2050. By 2027, the number of unmarried Chinese men will be twice that of unmarried Chinese women.

There ya go. There is a huge trend in men outnumbering women, leading to women having a perfectly justifiable notion that their value exceeds that of the average man. Of course that is true only on the aggregate as any individual woman may have a completely unrealistic picture of her own personal place on the value chain, but on the whole, Chinese women are rational to view themselves as "higher value" than their male counterparts.

Still, Chinese men are getting a pretty great deal compared to the population of manbearpigs dudes in the West have to select from. Not to ruffle any feathers, but I find it a bit hypocritical that some guys criticize Chinese women for mate selection based on economic value while at the same time complaining that Western society is being ruined by women ignoring "beta providers" in favor of bad boys. If you think that the social fabric is being torn apart by women ignoring the traditional imperative to find a mate who can provide for her and her family and relying instead on Daddy Government and Daddy Corporate, then surely you should applaud the good sense that Chinese women have in selecting mates for their ability to provide a stable future? Criticizing both strategies sounds like hating for hating's sake.

Western women are "sex in the city sluts" while Chinese women are "gold digging sluts." That kind of mindset makes it a hard go of it in life I think.

[John Michael Kane]

I'd argue that there's not much benefit to wifing up an urban Chinese materialist compared to wifing up a fat western woman with a career and feminist attitude. Simply put, you get more of what you subsidize. I would rather become a monk than wife up a nasty woman, regardless of origin. Better yet, I'm working hard on myself so I can attract a sweet, feminine woman for marraige and kids myself. The most nasty, mean and entitled women make headlines in newspapers and on TV. The sweet, and loving woman is already in a happy relationship and can't wait to have her first child. We can easily project that "all women are like that" if your only exposure to women is careerist urban sluts or attention whores on youtube and TMZ. Exposure to good women is about increasing your own value and getting in the right environments where quality women are to be found.

[Nonpareil]

Some translations from Chinese:

'Best boyfriends in China' = highest average salary in China.

'One fifth of Chinese men have been told their expectations are too high...' = one fifth of men would rather retain whores than put up with a wife.

'Emotionally resourceful' = thirsty (China is a nation of giant children, no one is emotionally resourceful), will tolerate endless bullshit from women.

'Chinese traditions' = something that has no place in this or even the last century but the Chinese cling to and act as if it somehow makes them superior.

'Chinese women rate themselves more highly...' = pussy is expensive, dick is free.

I remember 17 girlfriends guy, in that photo I see eleven 5's.



I wouldn't want to pay 100,000¥ upfront either to a woman who as soon as the ring goes on is going to quit her job while simultaneously demanding I hand over my bank card (you'd have a better chance wrestling a 17 foot saltwater crocodile underwater, at night...you don't like it there's certainly a Chinese guy out there who will comply), as soon as the baby drops is gonna foist it off on her parents (or a paid aiyi) and who's going to rapidly turn into a demanding and needy psycho who will require, if not demand, 100% of your time and effort. And even if you do get a great one, she's still got a family that's bound to be up her and by extension your ass.

Exceptions obviously exist but it flies in the face of conventional science how the Chinese girlfriend experience is top ten in the world but the Chinese wife experience is akin to punishment for heresy in a Middle Eastern country.

[Samseau]

Quote:

The end 1950s in the US had a male shortage numbering into the millions - caused by wars, depression during the depression, still tough labor conditions (many died in factories and dangerous work environment). Women regularly poached other men's husbands and male cheating was the norm for any man with some ability.

I am not claiming ratios have no effect on the attitude of women. I am claiming that there are many women out there, who, regardless of circumstance, will always be a pain in the ass and super picky with their men even if there a massive shortage of them.

[Lunostrelki]

My wife is Chinese and we live together with her parents. They're from a working class background in an inland province and are relatively simple and unpretentious folk. For every spoiled materialistic young woman (I concede my wife has some of these negative tendencies, but is thankfully still grounded in reality) or listless effeminate manchild, there are loads of people like this, not quite rural anymore but definitely yet to experience the full onslaught of societal degeneration that was introduced a couple decades into the reform and opening up period.

The bride price only made sense when women were pretty much property and rich guys could have several wives. Even then I think it was supposed to be balanced out by the dowry.

[Super_Fire]

Quote:

Despite their reputation for being the best boyfriends in China,

It's become apparent that the idea of a great BF/husband in Chinese culture is a man-slave who pays for everything no matter how unreasonable, does all the housechores, raises three kids by himself, works full-time, wipes the poodle's butt, and does it all with a smile.

The upside is that the kids don't seem to care much for their mom and the dad instill his values into the kids.

[Suits]

(09-04-2017 11:35 AM)kmhour Wrote:  

(09-04-2017 03:39 AM)Suits Wrote:  

Quote:

These pessimistic attitudes of commenters reflect an unstoppable trend that will shape all Chinese relationships in the years to come. Current estimates say Chinese men will outnumber women by 15 million by 2020, and 30 million by 2050. By 2027, the number of unmarried Chinese men will be twice that of unmarried Chinese women.

This article brought a smile to my face.

why does this article bring a smile to your face? the passage you quoted clearly states that men in China outnumber women by a substantial margin which will only increase over time.

Because this is a rare win for men. The worst that will occur for men is that they must delay marriage, something they are forced to do all over the world.

The CCP can't afford the social disruption that will be caused by a large population of frustrated male virgins and will ease up on the requirements to import a wife. These guys will get married. But the women won't. Once a woman hits 30 in China, she ages out.

Invest in domestic Chinese cat-food suppliers.

(09-04-2017 11:35 AM)kmhour Wrote:  

unmarried women are to become an increasingly scarce commodity. and as basic economic theory holds, the scarcer the supply, the greater the price.

There isn't really that much demand for educated woman who think their pussy is worth a million bucks.

If there was an extreme shortage of cars in Europe, Ferrari wouldn't be able to produce a million cars in a year, price them at $200,000 a piece and expect them to sell.

At a certain point, you've priced yourself out of the market, regardless of overall demand.

An increased demand for automobiles might mean that a $30,000 Ford can now be sold for $40,000, but that makers of that same car can't jack up the price to $100,000 and expect it to sell.

These women are over-estimating their value, over-estimating the demand at higher price points and they'll have no one but themselves to blame when they age out at thirty and have to settle for showing up at my place to exchange a well crafted cheesecake for some quality dicking. Bless her heart.

[Putin Closes]

All this stuff is noise. As the typical forum member is not competing against a local making 12,000 a year or has cringe game. Nor we be looking to tie down one of these girls.

17 girlfriends? Meh I rather have a few 6's / 7s on rotation. More then 3 is exhausting for me.

Marriage sounds like a shit deal unless your marrying into money / network.

[Transsimian]

(09-04-2017 07:56 PM)Super_Fire Wrote:  

Quote:

Despite their reputation for being the best boyfriends in China,

It's become apparent that the idea of a great BF/husband in Chinese culture is a man-slave who pays for everything no matter how unreasonable, does all the housechores, raises three kids by himself, works full-time, wipes the poodle's butt, and does it all with a smile.

You forgot that he also needs to take care of her parents.

[Super_Fire]

(09-04-2017 09:31 PM)Transsimian Wrote:  

You forgot that he also needs to take care of her parents.

Oh and that too.