[hooked_on_tonics]

I have had a multi-year obsession with this country--and by extension--Central Africa in general. I think my interest stems from it being such a raw part of the globe.

Have any forum members had the opportunity to visit this country or any others in the region?

[azulsombra]

(08-04-2017 07:26 PM)hooked_on_tonics Wrote:  

I have had a multi-year obsession with this country--and by extension--Central Africa in general. I think my interest stems from it being such a raw part of the globe.

Have any forum members had the opportunity to visit this country or any others in the region?

A few forum members have gone. Never to be heard from again.......

[rottenapple]

I've been to Goma, one of the worst cities in the world I'm sure. All buildings are black from ashes from an eruption many years ago that destroyed half the city and killed many. The city is near to many rebel groups whom have attacked it frequently in history. The last serious fights were in 2012. Rape is common as well and the only white people you'll see are the few UN staff members who decided to take the risk. Them or perhaps shady figures involved in mineral trading and the occasional nutcase.

I won't disclose exactly why I went there (although a fascinating story that some have heard from me in person), because it would be too easy for people to identify me, but I can tell you that walking around alone in that city is not for travel rookies. At one point, whistles from guys in the street made me notice that they were signaling my arrival somehow and I decided to go as fast as I can, before someone tried to rob me. The poverty you see there is on another level, yet astoundingly is nothing compared to what you would see inland. The rebel groups are truly the most savage people left on earth. I read a story once about a doctor that had to treat kid soldiers and tried to make them normal again. They would be so addicted to violence and death that he had to admit that only a small percentage could be saved and could be expected to function reasonably again in society. He treated a girl that was kidnapped in her village and put in a dirt pit naked. Soldiers would put a ladder, go down, rape her and then leave her for the next one. This continued for months, perhaps years. She was lucky to receive food once in a while.

Many foreign governments, especially Belgium and France, have tried to set up projects there to increase development, many failing due to local corruption and instability. The reasons of Congo's underdevelopment are very complex, but if you think about it, it is probably in natural resources, the richest country in the world. The whole world is benefiting from the chaos in Congo, the modern slavery that still exists there makes sure your new cellphone is a couple of cents cheaper. The diamonds that many men give to their future wife to celebrate their happiness is in fact covered with the blood and sweat of children, many whom have died to dig it out. The world is happy to turn a blind eye and I'm sure will continue to do so.

Somewhere on this forum there was a link posted to a travel forum thread, where two Belgians went with a 4 wheel drive into Congo starting from Goma I believe. The things they endured are incredible. Villages where they had never seen white people before. People that thought they were demons or had to be chased. A French priest that lived since forever in some village there, with nearly no contact to the west, having registered cruelties that happen even today, attacks from mai mai soldiers who afterwards rape and eat their victims.

Nevertheless, I do believe it is a magical country though. It is one of the few untouched places in the world. One of the places where there are still things to be discovered. Take for instance this monkey species, fascinating and only a couple of years ago officially registered in Congo.



In any other country this animal would already be studied in depth a long time ago, not in Congo though, who goes there anyway? The locals knew about the animal, but they don't write and they never knew that it was so unknown to the rest of the world.

Congo, together with Rwanda and Uganda is also the last habitat of the mountain gorilla. There is still witchcraft utilized daily there. Who knows what secrets the medicine men in the jungle of Congo have?

I wonder if in our lifetimes everything there will become open and normalized for tourism or if it will stay as wild and untouched for a long times due to wars and incredible poverty.

It is on my bucket list, let's see if I will make it there again for a more extended stay. It would be nice to write the first DRC datasheet.

[hooked_on_tonics]

^Great post rottenapple.

Here is a Ross Kemp episode depicting the unspeakable violence that you describe, for those who care to stoke their curiosity. Fair warning, just hearing some of these horrific descriptions made me physically ill.

Here is an equally interesting (but much more upbeat) resource describing the trials and tribulations of a man who traveled the inner depths of the country up the Congo river on a cargo boat.

Backpacking in the DRC is possible!

And finally, here is a high quality podcast outlining expectations and suggestions for a more "casual" adventurer (comparatively).

Amateur Traveler: Travel to DRC

Realistically, this country is in the heart of the Dark Continent and embodies the most extreme aspects of Africa. I am not sure if my fascination to the country translates to a realistic desire to go there... but I can't say I haven't gotten the itch before.

For a more tamed down experience, one can go to the significantly more developed (but still very much Central Africa) little brother of DRC, the Republic of Congo. It is smaller and safer with better infrastructure and less violent people, but has many cultural similarities to DRC.

Here is a phenomenal post by user Nescio on the naught nomad forum, outlining the dating arbitrage value that is possible for a foreigner in the Republic of Congo (specifically Point Noire). I highly recommend anyone interested in this region to give it a read.

Pointe Noire, Congo

These are the resources that stand out to me from my brief independent study of the area. Hopefully some of you find them as interesting as I did.

[rottenapple]

^^ interesting stuff, will check them out for sure!

[realologist]

I banged a chick in college from the Congo that moved here when she was 16. She was on the track team in my college.

She was a cool nice girl that would always cook for me. Very feminine. Could tell she was a rich girl though.

[the high]

I've actually been to Kinshasa the capital city in the DRC for a few weeks. It was actually fairly peaceful, though we were with locals; most of the fighting is relegated the the eastern parts of the country. If you stick to Kinshasa you should be relatively safe.

Be prepared the city is crowded and the power goes out intermittently without warning. One time we were at the bar and the power went out. Imagine sitting there talking to a girl and the next minute the whole place goes dark. Luckily the bar had a generator though.

EDIT: The city had some of the worse female:male ratios I have ever seen. Like 10:1, it was ridiculous. The clubs downtown were much better but then you had to sift through all the pros/semis.

[hooked_on_tonics]

@the high,

Interesting. Unlike most people who go to the country I am actually more drawn to the western part of the country, specifically kinshasa. If you don't mind me asking, under what circumstances were you there? Business? Pleasure?

[Yeti]

It seems like a lot of us are particularly interested in this fucked up, byzantine land. I had considered learning French by taking lessons in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, but then I considered that the flight would be prohibitively expensive (that it would be cheaper to learn French elsewhere).

As a travel destination, however, the DRC is at the top of my list. I'm not sure what it is exactly about the DRC that makes me curious and gives me an itch to go. It's mysterious and unique, but so are other places - Myanmar (before it becomes capitalist), Siberia, the Maldives, etc. I think that what makes the DRC so appealing, to me, is that it feels genuinely dangerous, like it doesn't care about whether you make it out. In a way, that could be a disaster, and therefore whether I ever actually end up visiting is still a big unknown. Danger is exciting but taking unnecessary, life-threatening risks is, in the end, pretty foolish when there is so much in life to live for.

Here are a couple resources for those who want to know more:
Anthony Bourdain - Democratic Republic of Congo (it's on Netflix)

Vice - Conflict Minerals, Rebels and Child Soldiers in Congo

I think that Naughty Nomad also wrote about the country, specifically the North Kivu region near Rwanda, which he described as particularly fucked up.

As for the women, I'm not sure if I'd be able to entertain such thoughts while in survival mode.

[hooked_on_tonics]

@Yeti

You perfectly captured my feelings of inner conflict towards the country. You're correct that there's other countries with similar feelings of rawness. But there is just something about the DRC that calls to me. To me it just feels like one of the most authentic and pure expressions of the continent (take my impression with a grain of salt as I have never even set foot on the continent). But the fact that almost no Westerners venture this far has to contribute to its preservation and authenticity.

I would second Bourdain's episode as a fascinating source of information, as I felt that he did a great job expressing the frustration that accomplishing even the simplest tasks (preparing dinner) can evoke in this environment. It is one of the few episodes were you truly see him break down and yell at his crew and fixer.

As far as the women, this is where we disagree. Food and women would be primary focus if I ever set foot in the country. I have cooked a huge amount of central african dishes in my kitchen and have taken an extreme liking to the simplistic and unprocessed (yet surprisingly delicious) nature of the cuisine. As far as the women, I understand your sentiment towards survival mode, but through my research I truly believe that central africa--for those who are willing to go--is probably the easiest place to get laid on the planet. Again, I have not been there, so take my impression with a grain of salt. But there are multiple boots-on-the-ground reports on other forums of foreigners being approached by and taking women home within two minutes of talking. Also, from the pictures I've seen, the hip-to-waist ratio of these women from a combination of genetics and active lifestyle is unparalleled. Amazing bodies.

I feel that Africa is one of the few parts of the globe where the information on naughty nomad far surpasses the information available on RVF. That forum draws a different breed of traveler. Again, user Nescio has over one thousand posts on that forum and most of them are gems of knowledge about the dark continent.

[DarkTriad]

(08-04-2017 07:26 PM)hooked_on_tonics Wrote:  

I have had a multi-year obsession with this country--and by extension--Central Africa in general. I think my interest stems from it being such a raw part of the globe.

Have any forum members had the opportunity to visit this country or any others in the region?

Didn't Neil Skywalker do a bunch of African trip reports on this and other forums?

[hooked_on_tonics]

@DarkTriad,

Western, Northern, Eastern and Southern Africa are relatively well represented on the forum. Central Africa is the one area where it seems there is little data. Probably because it is (by most accords) the most expensive, inconvenient and challenging part of the continent.

I will look into Neil's posts and see if I can dig anything up on Central Africa.

[Jnx]

I've been all over Eastern Africa's seaboard, but DRC seems like a whole different beast. Been dreaming about making a trip for a few years now. Need at least $30k in savings before I feel comfortable enough to do it. Accommodation seems expensive as fuck. If my experience in Africa has taught me anything, it's that taxis are going to scam you for everything you have. Have to buy a motorcycle to combat that. Combine that with a tent/hammock, and you should be able to cut expenses down dramatically. Still very risky and dangerous, but at least for me, that's the only reason I travel now. Use to travel to party and get with foreign girls, now it's to feel alive, and dangerous places are the only thing that does it for me now.

Naughty Nomad has a few African trip reports; most of them are dated and I don't think he has one on the DRC.

[hooked_on_tonics]

Damn, 30k in savings before you feel comfortable spending money to go to the country or 30k in savings to travel that country?

If its the latter, I think that may be slightly overkill. Although it depends on what you want to do and how long you plan on staying. Plus it is always better to travel over budgeted, so more power to you. Most people don't realize that central Africa is prohibitively expensive.

[Laner]

I need to get more stories from my dad. He worked in Congo/Zaire for 14 years when I was growing up. Like any wild injun he had a love with danger.

I remember him saying many times that he will never go back to this or that hellhole but sure enough he always would.

The last time he was there was in the late 90's when things really went to shit and Mobutu fled the country with all the wealth.

[the high]

(08-05-2017 07:17 PM)hooked_on_tonics Wrote:  

@the high,

Interesting. Unlike most people who go to the country I am actually more drawn to the western part of the country, specifically kinshasa. If you don't mind me asking, under what circumstances were you there? Business? Pleasure?

Pleasure. I have some family from there.

I thought about making a datasheet awhile back but there isn't that much to speak on about it.

[thebassist]

OP this is the thread that Rottenapple was referring to: the journal of two Belgian travellers traversing Congo by jeep. Enjoy it and do let us know your takeaways from it.

http://forum.expeditionportal.com/thread...o-Kinshasa

[Suits]

(08-06-2017 03:46 AM)thebassist Wrote:  

OP this is the thread that Rottenapple was referring to: the journal of two Belgian travellers traversing Congo by jeep. Enjoy it and do let us know your takeaways from it.

http://forum.expeditionportal.com/thread...o-Kinshasa

That thread is definitely a must read. Better than most movies.

[Jnx]

(08-05-2017 10:04 PM)hooked_on_tonics Wrote:  

Damn, 30k in savings before you feel comfortable spending money to go to the country or 30k in savings to travel that country?

If its the latter, I think that may be slightly overkill. Although it depends on what you want to do and how long you plan on staying. Plus it is always better to travel over budgeted, so more power to you. Most people don't realize that central Africa is prohibitively expensive.

I have unrealistic business ideas which is a big factor for that number. It's not too far off from what I'd want without, though. DRC is one of the most dangerous countries in the world. If shit really hits the fan, I plan on getting out alive. Paying off officials, militia, mafia - whatever. Jumping on whatever flight that is in the next 20 minutes. This is a place where you not only get killed, but you get tortured, raped, and limbs cut off. No thanks man. Have bribes budgeted in. Admittedly, I don't have any experience in DRC, just want to be on the safe side.

You're right, a lot of people think these people are living in mud huts, it must be cheap. Couldn't be further from the truth. Foreigner price & western amenities come at a cost. Look up hotels in Kinshasa, shit's not cheap. I got a nice hotel in Kiev in Maidan Square for $20/night. Doesn't seem plausible for similar deals in a lot of Central/Eastern Africa.

Something kind of funny. Spent a lot of time in Tanzania. Chinese are building a railway from inland to link the port of Dar Es Salaam. They import their own labor, because the Africans are too expensive for them. Africa is an interesting place.

[Suits]

(08-06-2017 10:23 AM)Jnx Wrote:  

Something kind of funny. Spent a lot of time in Tanzania. Chinese are building a railway from inland to link the port of Dar Es Salaam. They import their own labor, because the Africans are too expensive for them. Africa is an interesting place.

It probably has more to do with the fact that the Chinese are unapologetically selfish and are focused on ethnic global domination.

They are only willing to do projects in after if all the wages go to Han Chinese workers and if they own the finished projects and if all proceeds from the project goes back to China.

Just part of the plan for bleeding the world dry of value.

[Laner]

(08-06-2017 10:23 AM)Jnx Wrote:  

(08-05-2017 10:04 PM)hooked_on_tonics Wrote:  

Damn, 30k in savings before you feel comfortable spending money to go to the country or 30k in savings to travel that country?

If its the latter, I think that may be slightly overkill. Although it depends on what you want to do and how long you plan on staying. Plus it is always better to travel over budgeted, so more power to you. Most people don't realize that central Africa is prohibitively expensive.

I have unrealistic business ideas which is a big factor for that number. It's not too far off from what I'd want without, though. DRC is one of the most dangerous countries in the world. If shit really hits the fan, I plan on getting out alive. Paying off officials, militia, mafia - whatever. Jumping on whatever flight that is in the next 20 minutes. This is a place where you not only get killed, but you get tortured, raped, and limbs cut off. No thanks man. Have bribes budgeted in. Admittedly, I don't have any experience in DRC, just want to be on the safe side.

You're right, a lot of people think these people are living in mud huts, it must be cheap. Couldn't be further from the truth. Foreigner price & western amenities come at a cost. Look up hotels in Kinshasa, shit's not cheap. I got a nice hotel in Kiev in Maidan Square for $20/night. Doesn't seem plausible for similar deals in a lot of Central/Eastern Africa.

Something kind of funny. Spent a lot of time in Tanzania. Chinese are building a railway from inland to link the port of Dar Es Salaam. They import their own labor, because the Africans are too expensive for them. Africa is an interesting place.

I remember hearing from my dad, and later a friend who worked offshore in Angola, that Luanda has NYC priced hotels. Some of the most expensive in the world. It was their way of getting oil company extra tax. Its all about who you pay.

My dad told me once about getting a shipment of motors. The locals had 'lost' them even though my dad had made his own inquiries through his local channels and knew they were sitting there on the dock rusting. He used his own money to pay the bribe to the guy at the dock to 'find' them and get them out. Then he had to fight the company to get reimbursed as they wanted a receipt.

[Poker]

(08-05-2017 12:51 AM)hooked_on_tonics Wrote:  

^Great post rottenapple.

Here is a Ross Kemp episode depicting the unspeakable violence that you describe, for those who care to stoke their curiosity. Fair warning, just hearing some of these horrific descriptions made me physically ill.

Thanks for the video, the stories are really as horrendous as you elude to.

It's shocking, the audacity that western feminists have, claiming that they are 'oppressed', 'victims', have been 'raped' (stare rape) and bullshit like that. They live such a cosy life with everything provided for them, either by their family, the state, or beta males, yet have the audacity to use powerful words, such as 'oppressed' to describe themselves, thus diluting the meaning of these words, yet live in societies that claim they can do no wrong. The women of the DRC really are victims as are many women in Africa. The stories in the documentary are truly heart breaking, beyond what words can describe.

Yet, feminists in the west don't give a shit about women who are truly oppressed and need help. Hell, even bringing to attention the 'lackings' of the DRC will probably have you marked as 'racist' by many of them. The only intervention these type of people make in other parts of the world is to export there awful ideology, not to actually help the people or women of said country.

[Chaos]

(08-06-2017 05:48 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 03:46 AM)thebassist Wrote:  

OP this is the thread that Rottenapple was referring to: the journal of two Belgian travellers traversing Congo by jeep. Enjoy it and do let us know your takeaways from it.

http://forum.expeditionportal.com/thread...o-Kinshasa

That thread is definitely a must read. Better than most movies.

Indeed. Think about all the bullshit people are referring to as an "adventure" these days.

That is how an adventure is supposed to be.

[timalemanha]

I couldn't have described it with better words than you have done.

Who in the hell is actually still living in the west and matters come worse, being married to a western woman. Any true alpha male has probably left the west behind

[renotime]

Doug Casey claims a western guy can go to a small country like Benin and meet the president within a few weeks.

"The playing field is very uneven in Africa. And that’s exactly what you want.You don’t want a level playing field; you want one tilted in your direction. If a young American or European stays in their own country, he’s just like 100 million other people. He’s got no marginal advantage.

If you go to Africa, it’s a different story. You’ve got a ton of marginal advantages. You are likely the only person that has a certain background, set of skills, education, capital, and connections. You’re automatically very unusual. That makes it much easier to make things happen.

You can be sitting down with the president, or the richest guys in the country, in a couple weeks after you arrive on the scene.

I think that it’s an excellent place to go for an individual from Europe or America that wants to get wealthy. And have an exotic adventure as a bonus."

What do ya'll think? Is he full of shit?