[911]

I'm starting this thread on an important subject breached in the busy Trump thread, starting off with Irenicus' answer:

(07-28-2017 03:59 PM)Irenicus Wrote:  

(07-28-2017 01:05 PM)911 Wrote:  

(07-28-2017 12:15 PM)Truth Teller Wrote:  

(07-28-2017 10:35 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

(07-28-2017 10:08 AM)Truth Teller Wrote:  

I swear, the amount of bullshit that passes for accurate history on this site is ridiculous. McCain's plane was next to the one that dropped the bomb. His didn't. There are lots of things to despise McCain for, but let's not make shit up.

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/navy-rele...rds_062014

"McCain, who was on board the USS Forrestal on July 29, 1967, and whose A-4 Skyhawk was struck by an air-to ground Zuni missile that had misfired from an F-4 Phantom.”

WMR has been informed that crewmen aboard the Forrestal have provided additional information about the Forrestal incident. It is believed by many crewmen and those who have investigated the case that McCain deliberately “wet-started” his A-4E to shake up the guy in the plane behind his A-4. “Wet-starts”, done either deliberately or accidentally, shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft.

In McCain’s case, the “wet-start” apparently “cooked off” and launched the Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that touched off the explosions and massive fire. The F-4 pilot was reportedly killed in the conflagration. “Wet starting” was apparently a common practice among young “hot-dog” pilots.

McCain was quickly transferred to the USS Oriskany (the only Forrestal crewman to be immediately transferred). Three months later, McCain was shot down over North Vietnam on October 26, 1967.

As WMR previously reported, at the time of the Forrestal disaster, McCain’s father, Admiral John McCain, Jr., was Commander-in-Chief of US Naval Forces Europe (CINCUSNAVEUR) and was busy covering up the details of (...) the USS Liberty."

I know what your source says. It's funny that literature that goes through actual scholars (not the internet) doesn't.

"Believed by many crewmen," okay, who? Names and ranks. This is the same type of anonymous source bullshit that fake news media tries to get away with.

Your version of events makes no sense.



McCain's aircraft is 416 on the diagram. The aircraft that shot the missile is 110 on the diagram. For the "wet start" to cause the missile launch, somehow McCain's aircraft was the opposite direction, facing out towards sea, as he started the afterburner.

Just out of curiosity Teller, do you also believe that the attack on the USS Liberty by Israeli forces was mostly a case of mistaken identity?

Since you are so keen about discussing that incident and diverting the topic, answer these questions:


(1) How many investigations were concerning that incident, and what did they conclude? Did you even bother reading them at all? All five (yes, there were FIVE investigations, conducted by both the USN and IDF).

Lol, do you actually expect the IDF to tell the truth on a false flag attack on the Liberty that they were going to pin on Egypt? Unfortunately the USN also lied about the incident. LBJ and McCain Sr were cucking hard for Israel.

JFK was the last US president who really stood up to Israel, preventing it from building a nuclear weapons program and threatening to clamp down on its US lobbying activities.

That was one of the red lines he had crossed...

Quote:

(2) What did all the declassified documents and info tell? More specifically - did the IDF order the attack?
(3) What was that ship doing in the middle of a war zone?
(4) Is Israel paying the compensation to the victims and families?
Don't link 2 hour videos - answer in your own words.

2) Yes, the attack was premeditated. Israel wanted to pin the attack on Egypt and precipitate direct US intervention against the Arabs, classic false flag attack, they are experts at this. The evidence for Israel knowing they were attacking an American ship is overwhelming.

3) The USS Liberty was an unarmed NSA spy ship, a clearly marked USN ship flying US flag and sailing in international waters.

4) Israel sure as hell wasn't planning on paying any compensation, they were going to sink the ship, kill all the survivors and pin it on Egypt. They didn't manage to sink it due to the heroism of its crew. And they only paid up after they got caught in the act.

[Going strong]

By the way, the diagram provided by the admiralty, on McCain's (admiral) father request, is I guess the naval equivalent of Barry's worthless birth certificate: just a badly, hastily put together piece of paper that proves nothing.
thread-48360...pid1620548

Matter of fact, the analogy goes deeper, as the Hawaiian woman who ultimately certified Barry's birth certificate, conveniently died when her plane fell into the ocean (an accident still "unexplained"), and there's even pictures of her floating in the water... at least, McCain was not the plane pilot in this last, Hawaiian case! One plane crash that cannot be pinned on McCain, at last!

[DarkTriad]

USS Liberty was such a bullshit incident. Before the internet they could get away with anything.

[puckerman]

Not one survivor of this attack has said that it was an accident. Among the men who survived the attack, it's unanimous that the attack was deliberate.

Every President since Johnson has been nothing but a worthless cocksucker for Israeli prime minsters. Trump expressed his desire for Netanyahu's cum when he was on the campaign trail. His desire has never wavered, and it never will. If I ever get a chance, I will ask Benjamin Netanyahu: "Who gives the best blow jobs--Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, or Donald Trump?"

[Traktor]

Kudos to the OP for bringing this very important issue up. The case of the USS Liberty was deliberately buried with the complicity of the liberal MSM and it is only now, 50 years later that this issue is gaining any traction. What happened to these servicemen on that fateful day was a war crime. No two ways about it. Had any other nation carried out this despicable act, the consequences would have been severe. The outcome of this , i.e. the cover up by LBJ and the silencing of the survivors shows us that Israel did, can and will continue to get away with murder. I am quite confident that if a similar event occurred, the outcome would be the same. The Zionazis could order the murder the firstborn and there wouldn't be a dicky bird in Carrick about it from the Establishment and MSM. The goyim are fair game to be slaughtered.

I don't know if anyone has seen this but there was a very good Crosstalk show a couple of weeks back which featured USMC vet Ken O'Keefe.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

There were many false flags in history - some done by the own military, some by foreign powers. Some like with the Luisitania in 1915 - was explicitly done to have the Germans act on it.

Whatever works - they do it.

[puckerman]

I also believe that a Soviet ship was in the area when this happened. If they had tried to pin this attack on Egypt, the Soviets very likely would have exposed it.

When the "wonderful" Jewish state was founded, there was some debate over which side they would take in the Cold War. Israel got military aid from Czechoslovakia during the war in 1948. Stalin was one of the first leaders to recognize the new state. In 1967, the Soviets severed diplomatic relations with Israel.

[Irenicus]

To answer the OP's questions.

Quote:

Lol, do you actually expect the IDF to tell the truth on a false flag attack on the Liberty that they were going to pin on Egypt? Unfortunately the USN also lied about the incident. LBJ and McCain Sr were cucking hard for Israel.

JFK was the last US president who really stood up to Israel, preventing it from building a nuclear weapons program and threatening to clamp down on its US lobbying activities.

That was one of the red lines he had crossed...

Again, answer the question. Did you read all the reports, made by both the US Navy and the IDF (you can Google them)? Looking at your tone, it is obvious you did not even bother. And that was not your first time - remember the Sufism topic, where you discussed a topic about which you have no clue about. Readers can see for themselves here:

thread-63400.html

And concerning Kennedy, he was not anti Israel as much as you think.

Quote:

2) Yes, the attack was premeditated. Israel wanted to pin the attack on Egypt and precipitate direct US intervention against the Arabs, classic false flag attack, they are experts at this. The evidence for Israel knowing they were attacking an American ship is overwhelming.

Accusing someone for such a thing requires proof. Like in my first answer, you did not bother reading the material, or providing a proof. Again, find me one document, in which the Ramat Kal (IDF chief of staf, which was Yitzak Rabin, If I remember correctly) gave that order. Documentaries and fake news articles don't count. The document.


Oh, by the way, you are mixing things here with the Lavon affair which was indeed a false flag.

Quote:

3) The USS Liberty was an unarmed NSA spy ship, a clearly marked USN ship flying US flag and sailing in international waters

Correct.

But that ship had no business entering a war zone. And the entire Eastern Mediterranean (was a war zone (there were several naval battles). Any ship, regardless of nationality and markings, is putting itself in danger. Whether from Arabs or Israel.

Quote:

4) Israel sure as hell wasn't planning on paying any compensation, they were going to sink the ship, kill all the survivors and pin it on Egypt. They didn't manage to sink it due to the heroism of its crew. And they only paid up after they got caught in the act.

You again fail to provide me any documents, and your accusations do not make any sense.



Read all the official material, all declassified info, and use your logic, and I'll be willing to continue this discussion.

[911]

(07-30-2017 09:38 AM)Irenicus Wrote:  

To answer the OP's questions.

Quote:

Lol, do you actually expect the IDF to tell the truth on a false flag attack on the Liberty that they were going to pin on Egypt? Unfortunately the USN also lied about the incident. LBJ and McCain Sr were cucking hard for Israel.

JFK was the last US president who really stood up to Israel, preventing it from building a nuclear weapons program and threatening to clamp down on its US lobbying activities.

That was one of the red lines he had crossed...

Again, answer the question. Did you read all the reports, made by both the US Navy and the IDF (you can Google them)? Looking at your tone, it is obvious you did not even bother. And that was not your first time - remember the Sufism topic, where you discussed a topic about which you have no clue about. Readers can see for themselves here:

thread-63400.html

And concerning Kennedy, he was not anti Israel as much as you think.

Quote:

2) Yes, the attack was premeditated. Israel wanted to pin the attack on Egypt and precipitate direct US intervention against the Arabs, classic false flag attack, they are experts at this. The evidence for Israel knowing they were attacking an American ship is overwhelming.

Accusing someone for such a thing requires proof. Like in my first answer, you did not bother reading the material, or providing a proof. Again, find me one document, in which the Ramat Kal (IDF chief of staf, which was Yitzak Rabin, If I remember correctly) gave that order. Documentaries and fake news articles don't count. The document.


Oh, by the way, you are mixing things here with the Lavon affair which was indeed a false flag.

Quote:

3) The USS Liberty was an unarmed NSA spy ship, a clearly marked USN ship flying US flag and sailing in international waters

Correct.

But that ship had no business entering a war zone. And the entire Eastern Mediterranean (was a war zone (there were several naval battles). Any ship, regardless of nationality and markings, is putting itself in danger. Whether from Arabs or Israel.

Quote:

4) Israel sure as hell wasn't planning on paying any compensation, they were going to sink the ship, kill all the survivors and pin it on Egypt. They didn't manage to sink it due to the heroism of its crew. And they only paid up after they got caught in the act.

You again fail to provide me any documents, and your accusations do not make any sense.



Read all the official material, all declassified info, and use your logic, and I'll be willing to continue this discussion.

Lol at the chutzpah on display here, Irenicus.

Your main argument line here is that since there is no official Israeli or USN report showing that it was a deliberate Israeli attack on the USS Liberty, then it must not have happened. Because of course IDF reports is where you really want to go to find out the truth about the USS Liberty, and not the testimonies of the surviving crew, who reported wave after wave of Israeli planes and boats strafing, napalming and torpedoing their unarmed USN boat flying an oversized US flag, sailing in international waters.

Bad, bad, hasbara bro.

[Irenicus]

(07-30-2017 01:30 PM)911 Wrote:  

(07-30-2017 09:38 AM)Irenicus Wrote:  

To answer the OP's questions.

Quote:

Lol, do you actually expect the IDF to tell the truth on a false flag attack on the Liberty that they were going to pin on Egypt? Unfortunately the USN also lied about the incident. LBJ and McCain Sr were cucking hard for Israel.

JFK was the last US president who really stood up to Israel, preventing it from building a nuclear weapons program and threatening to clamp down on its US lobbying activities.

That was one of the red lines he had crossed...

Again, answer the question. Did you read all the reports, made by both the US Navy and the IDF (you can Google them)? Looking at your tone, it is obvious you did not even bother. And that was not your first time - remember the Sufism topic, where you discussed a topic about which you have no clue about. Readers can see for themselves here:

thread-63400.html

And concerning Kennedy, he was not anti Israel as much as you think.

Quote:

2) Yes, the attack was premeditated. Israel wanted to pin the attack on Egypt and precipitate direct US intervention against the Arabs, classic false flag attack, they are experts at this. The evidence for Israel knowing they were attacking an American ship is overwhelming.

Accusing someone for such a thing requires proof. Like in my first answer, you did not bother reading the material, or providing a proof. Again, find me one document, in which the Ramat Kal (IDF chief of staf, which was Yitzak Rabin, If I remember correctly) gave that order. Documentaries and fake news articles don't count. The document.


Oh, by the way, you are mixing things here with the Lavon affair which was indeed a false flag.

Quote:

3) The USS Liberty was an unarmed NSA spy ship, a clearly marked USN ship flying US flag and sailing in international waters

Correct.

But that ship had no business entering a war zone. And the entire Eastern Mediterranean (was a war zone (there were several naval battles). Any ship, regardless of nationality and markings, is putting itself in danger. Whether from Arabs or Israel.

Quote:

4) Israel sure as hell wasn't planning on paying any compensation, they were going to sink the ship, kill all the survivors and pin it on Egypt. They didn't manage to sink it due to the heroism of its crew. And they only paid up after they got caught in the act.

You again fail to provide me any documents, and your accusations do not make any sense.



Read all the official material, all declassified info, and use your logic, and I'll be willing to continue this discussion.

Lol at the chutzpah on display here, Irenicus.

Your main argument line here is that since there is no official Israeli or USN report showing that it was a deliberate Israeli attack on the USS Liberty, then it must not have happened. Because of course IDF reports is where you really want to go to find out the truth about the USS Liberty, and not the testimonies of the surviving crew, who reported wave after wave of Israeli planes and boats strafing, napalming and torpedoing their unarmed USN boat flying an oversized US flag, sailing in international waters.

Bad, bad, hasbara bro.

So let me get this straight...


When I am telling you to read all relevant documents, all declassified information (not just Israeli, but American and NSA), and to use your logic (why would Israel use a false flag in war that it was winning from the very start, for example)...you accuse me of hasbara . Wow.


Is that the best you can do?

[911]

(07-30-2017 02:33 PM)Irenicus Wrote:  

So let me get this straight...

When I am telling you to read all relevant documents, all declassified information (not just Israeli, but American and NSA), and to use your logic (why would Israel use a false flag in war that it was winning from the very start, for example)...you accuse me of hasbara . Wow.

Is that the best you can do?

-You believe that the truth lies in IDF documents and cucked USN reports led by McCain Sr, selling us the notion that the attack on the USS Liberty by Israeli forces was not premeditated, as opposed to the testimonies of surviving American sailors telling us otherwise. That's chutzpah.

Quote:

why would Israel use a false flag in war that it was winning from the very start

The reason for Israel wanting to sink the USS Liberty and kill all survivors is to pin the blame on Egypt and precipitate a strong direct US military intervention in this conflict against the Arabs. Classic false flag, a tool with which the Israeli have a long history, hence their intelligence agency motto of "By Way of Deception, Thou Shall Wage War". They've bombed American targets in Egypt (Operation Susannah) to pin it on Arabs for exactly the same reasons:

Quote:

It was “one of the classic all-American cover-ups,” said retired Admiral Thomas Moorer, a former Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman who spent a year investigating the attack as part of an independent panel he formed with other former military officials. The panel also included a former US ambassador to Saudi Arabia, James Akins.

“Why would our government put Israel’s interests ahead of our own?” Moorer asked from his wheelchair at the news conference. He was chief of naval operations at the time of the attack. Moorer, who has long held that the attack was a deliberate act, wants Congress to investigate.

Moorer, who as top legal council to the official investigation is in a position to know, agrees that Israel intended to sink the USS Liberty and blame Egypt for it, thus dragging the United States into a war on Israel's behalf. This seems to be a common trick of Israel. Starting with the Lavon affair, through the USS Liberty, to the fake radio transmitter that tricked Reagan into attacking Libya, to potentially 9-11 itself, Israel's game is to frame Arabs and set them up as targets for the United States.

The official US investigation is discredited. And with it, every claim of innocence for Israel that relied on the official investigation as a source.

The real question facing the American people is why the US Government seems more concerned with protecting Israel after they are caught playing these dirty tricks, rather than doing something to convince Israel not to kill any more Americans.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...berty.html


Another reason for Israel to sink the USS Liberty is that they didn't want the NSA to listen in on their operations, Israel wanting to escalate the conflict and invade the Golan Heights, while the US was urging them to de-escalate and hold a cease fire in order to stave off international escalation with the USSR, this is explained in the early part of this video interview with a USS Liberty Naval Lieutenant James Ennes:

On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public. The USS Liberty Memorial web site (LINK) tells their story and is dedicated to the memory of the 34 brave men who died.

Quote:

The Attack

After surveilling USS Liberty for more than nine hours with almost hourly aircraft overflights and radar tracking, the air and naval forces of Israel attacked our ship in international waters without warning. USS Liberty was identified as a US naval ship by Israeli reconnaissance aircraft nine hours before the attack and continuously tracked by Israeli radar and aircraft thereafter. Sailing in international waters at less than five knots, with no offensive armament, our ship was not a military threat to anyone.

The Israeli forces attacked without warning and without attempting to contact us. Thirty four Americans were killed in the attack and another 174 were wounded. The ship, a $40-million dollar state-of-the-art signals intelligence platform, was later declared unsalvageable and sold for scrap.


The Cover Up

Despite a near-universal consensus that the Israeli attack was made with full knowledge that USS Liberty was a US Navy ship, the Johnson administration began an immediate cover-up of this fact. Though administration officers continued individually to characterize the attack as deliberate, the Johnson administration never sought the prosecution of the guilty parties or otherwise attempted to seek justice for the victims. They concealed and altered evidence in their effort to downplay the attack. Though they never formally accepted the Israeli explanation that it was an accident, they never pressed for a full investigation either. They simply allowed those responsible literally to get away with murder.

In an ongoing effort to reveal the truth about the attack, the USS Liberty Veterans Association has filed with the Secretary of the Army in the manner prescribed by law a detailed, fully documented Report of War Crimes describing the circumstances of the attack on our ship and evidence that it was a crime under international law. In accordance with international law and treaties, the United States is obligated to investigate the allegations. So far, the United States has declined even to acknowledge that the report has been filed. The full text of the report can be found at http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf

More info here:

Quote:

Israel attacked the USS Liberty using UNMARKED AIRCRAFT. This is the single fact which proves Israel knew exactly who they were attacking. Israel's story is that they thought USS Liberty was an Egyptian ship and therefore a legitimate target of war. Were that true, there would be no reason to attack a supposedly Egyptian ship with unmarked aircraft. The only possible reason to use unmarked aircraft to attack the ship is that Israel knew it was an American ship and intended to sink it, then to blame the attack on Egypt.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...berty.html

[puckerman]

Lying Bastard Johnson wasn't there. The elder McCain wasn't there. Dean Rusk wasn't there, although he believed it was deliberate. The Israeli Prime Minister wasn't there. Robert McNamara wasn't there.

The men who were unboard the ship were there. What do they say? And why have America's "leaders" rejected their testimony in favor of the foreign power who perpetrated this attck?

And if America's leaders are going to sell out the soldiers when something like this happens, then why should anybody join the US military at all? And why would the soldiers lie about something like this?

Over 99% of American soldiers are more honest than pathological liars like Johnson and McNamara. Those two pieces of shit never went a day without telling at least one big lie. If either of them told me it was raining outside, I would still check to see for myself.

[911]

JF covered the subject yesterday, good interview with a USS Liberty survivor:

[DarkTriad]

(07-28-2017 06:50 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

By the way, the diagram provided by the admiralty, on McCain's (admiral) father request, is I guess the naval equivalent of Barry's worthless birth certificate: just a badly, hastily put together piece of paper that proves nothing.
thread-48360...pid1620548

Matter of fact, the analogy goes deeper, as the Hawaiian woman who ultimately certified Barry's birth certificate, conveniently died when her plane fell into the ocean (an accident still "unexplained"), and there's even pictures of her floating in the water... at least, McCain was not the plane pilot in this last, Hawaiian case! One plane crash that cannot be pinned on McCain, at last!

At least everyone else survived, only the one with dirt on Obama died.