[SlickyBoy]

It's not a law yet but the Connecticut hoise passed a bill that would prevent therapists from offering or performing conversion therapy, I. E. attempting to help homosexuals successfully revert to heterosexuality.

https://ctmirror.org/2017/05/02/connecti...n-therapy/

It's OK to let teenage girls decide whether to get an abortion and not tell their parents, but letting a grown adult willingly participate in a type of therapy - whether effective or not - is now about to be illegal. Such a sad, pathetic, feminized commentary on the state of western civilization.

[Kona]

Quote:

The bill’s lead sponsors are the legislature’s only two openly gay members, Currey and Sen. Beth Bye, D-West Hartford, but its long list of co-sponsors included House Minority Leader Themis Klarides, R-Derby.

Klarides urged passage of the bill, saying it would protect children against bullying.

“This is one that will allow me to go sleep tonight,” said Klarides, one of 63 Republicans and 78 Democrats to vote for the bill.

Hes going to sleep alright...With a dude!



Seriously though, does this restrict religious types like pastors from counseling the gays and suggesting they stop sucking cocks?

I think this could restrict the religious, unless they're all into Satan in Connecticut.

Aloha!

[rapaz12]

I hate to play devils advocate, but has conversion therapy every legitimately worked? I've heard most people just come out of it more messed up than when they went in.

[YoungBlade]

Here's conversion therapy that's worked:

[King of Monkeys]

(07-19-2017 09:23 PM)YoungBlade Wrote:  

Here's conversion therapy that's worked:

So they're turning gay people into rocks?

[911]

(07-19-2017 09:19 PM)rapaz12 Wrote:  

I hate to play devils advocate, but has conversion therapy every legitimately worked? I've heard most people just come out of it more messed up than when they went in.

Yes it does work in some instances. As well, you have to put it in context, mainstream culture has become an anti-hetero conversion therapy, so you need that voice to counter it.

[Truth Teller]

(07-19-2017 09:19 PM)rapaz12 Wrote:  

I hate to play devils advocate, but has conversion therapy every legitimately worked? I've heard most people just come out of it more messed up than when they went in.

Yeah, though it's largely ignored by the "born this way" lobby. Based on the statistics I've seen, conversion therapy is effective somewhere between about 10% and 35% of the time. There are some issues with the studies, based on what you define as "success."

I think that homosexual children shouldn't be forced into conversion therapy, but an adult is entitled to do whatever he so chooses.

[Mage]

(07-19-2017 11:21 PM)Truth Teller Wrote:  

(07-19-2017 09:19 PM)rapaz12 Wrote:  

I hate to play devils advocate, but has conversion therapy every legitimately worked? I've heard most people just come out of it more messed up than when they went in.

Yeah, though it's largely ignored by the "born this way" lobby. Based on the statistics I've seen, conversion therapy is effective somewhere between about 10% and 35% of the time. There are some issues with the studies, based on what you define as "success."

I think that homosexual children shouldn't be forced into conversion therapy, but an adult is entitled to do whatever he so chooses.

If these number are true then it's more effective then alcoholics anonymous and similar things actually. Of course definition of success is what matters. I have no doubt it would become more efficient if it were socially recognized as such and homosexuality was socially shunned.

There should be no such thing as homosexual children. Children (in the proper meaning of this term) should not engage in any sexual practice and should be kept safe from such practices.

[Oswaldo Guimaraens]

I guess the notion that we live in a free country -- in which one consenting adult has the right to pay another consenting adult to provide information, counseling, opinions, etc. that are of value to him -- is obsolete.

[Super_Fire]

(07-20-2017 01:22 AM)Oswaldo Guimaraens Wrote:  

I guess the notion that we live in a free country -- in which one consenting adult has the right to pay another consenting adult to provide information, counseling, opinions, etc. that are of value to him -- is obsolete.

Freedom is diametrically opposed to socialism/communism, yes.

[SlickyBoy]

As mentioned earlier, alcoholics anonymous has a pretty terrible success rate, but that doesn't make it not worth trying for people who so choose.

I don't understand the desire behind the sponsors of the bill - are they worried therapy might actually start working and there will be fewer available young gay dudes? What about therapy that converts people the other way around? I bet that's still legal.

As you might expect, the second largest group of vocal supporters I've seen for this are liberal white females

[Hypno]

FWIW, homosexuality was defined as a mental disorder by the psychiatric profession and the DSM until 1987.

[Guitarman]

I agree, the fact that even a low % of gays can be cured by therapy suggests that much like transgender ism, homosexuality is a mental disorder.

So the state of Conecticut has effectively banned treatment for a mental Illness. They have put political correctness above ethical, humane treatment of the mentally ill.

That has to be unethical.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

The percentage of practicing gays is certainly lower in a society that labels it as deviant behavior rather than a society that praises and glorifies it. Societies that label it as deviant put pressure on people that might try it, to never go there. Societies that praise it try to teach children that everybody has at least some gay tendencies, and they ought to try it to see if they like it.

Conversion therapy is just an example of the kind of social pressure that minimizes gay behavior. Banning conversion therapy is an example of the kind of thing that maximizes it. In particular, all gay leaning children should be encouraged to avoid gay experimentation permanently.

[Only One Man]

If you think conversion therapy works on gay men to turn them straight you are a fucking moron. My guess would be that those "gay conversion therapy centers" are just big gay orgies. That being said, if consenting adults are willing to pay for that service and someone is willing to provide it, it should never be banned.

I've never understood the hatred for gay men on this forum. All they do is move into shitty neighborhoods and turn them into nice, safe places a decade or two later, they pay their fucking taxes and take care of their lawns, and they don't add unwanted children to the already large pool of unwanted children.

As far as the criticism for them spreading STDs and AIDS, that's completely legitimate and they should be called out for that. But if you talk shit about gays for that reason and then turn around and brag about banging tons of sluts without a condom and busting inside them then you're a fucking hypocrite and are no better than the gays.

[heavy]

(07-20-2017 08:42 AM)Only One Man Wrote:  

If you think conversion therapy works on gay men to turn them straight you are a fucking moron. My guess would be that those "gay conversion therapy centers" are just big gay orgies. That being said, if consenting adults are willing to pay for that service and someone is willing to provide it, it should never be banned.

I highlighted the only logical part of that sentence. Does conversion therapy work? I don't know. I know there are some stats and some anecdotal evidence. I'm guessing "does it work" has a subjective answer to it.

Quote:

I've never understood the hatred for gay men on this forum. All they do is move into shitty neighborhoods and turn them into nice, safe places a decade or two later, they pay their fucking taxes and take care of their lawns, and they don't add unwanted children to the already large pool of unwanted children.

It's not gay hating, it's liberal hating. It's hating when libs insist on throwing the gayness at society all the time...normalizing it, etc. The media and laws and politics make us annoyed that we have to hear about it all the time.

I doubt RVF members hate gays like you think. We're just annoyed at the 'movement'.

As Gavin McInnes says, we're not homophobic, we're homobored.

Also, let's not pretend they're just like us, only they like dudes. It's pretty bizarre if the people you were attracted to were just as horny and ready to fuck as you are. That would absolutely change your perspective on life.

Quote:

As far as the criticism for them spreading STDs and AIDS, that's completely legitimate and they should be called out for that. But if you talk shit about gays for that reason and then turn around and brag about banging tons of sluts without a condom and busting inside them then you're a fucking hypocrite and are no better than the gays.

You're saying butt sex is as normal as PV sex? Do we need to go back to Biology 101? AIDS is spread specifically because these fags are fucking assholes, not vaginas.

[Only One Man]

Yea sure because guys never ever fuck girls in the ass right?

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

I was naturally against gays as a young man in the 70's, like most people in most societies throughout history. In the late 80's and 90's, I became sympathetic to their situations due to hearing stories about fag bashing, both by ordinary citizens and the cops. I maintained this attitude until 5-10 years ago. I still thought it was against the laws of God, but I thought government should not be involved, and they should be allowed to make their own choices.

However, in recent years, gays have become aggressively political. I am opposed to gay marriage. To the extent that the state subsidizes marriage with tax breaks and other beneficial regulations, it should only do so to encourage families for the purpose of bringing up children as well as possible. Gays should not be allowed to adopt children.

Now there is aggressive gay propaganda constantly. They are trying to do much more than just be left alone. They're trying to control the agenda and ensure that all children are taught that being gay is not only normal, but a lifestyle they should consider. This kind of propaganda is sick.

Putin and Russia have the right idea. Homosexuality is not illegal, but propaganda to encourage it is. I'm still opposed to fag bashing, but I think it should be acceptable for employers to choose if they want to hire openly gay people. Let the gay people move to places where they are accepted, or act discreetly and remain in the closet, instead of trying to force their ways on people who find them disgusting.

As for the effectiveness of gay conversion therapy, many gays in the past stayed in the closet and lived conventional heterosexual lives, and were faithful to their wives and took care of their children. I think this is a good choice for them. I don't think conversion therapy stops them from getting hard-ons and beating off while thinking of gay sex, but they don't have to act it out. Also, it's known that gay guys fuck a lot of women. Obviously they are not hopelessly deprived of sex if they conform to normal socially acceptable behavior. Most of them want children too, so refraining from gay sex and getting married is a perfectly viable option.

The consent of the governed is a requirement for legitimate government. Normal people do not want gays forced upon them. Government should not do so when the governed do not consent to it. Let the gays and various other kinds of freaks and weirdos have some opportunity to practice their perversions without government oppression (so long as no children or other innocents are harmed). Society needs to have some kind of safety valve for the small minority of rebels and malcontents that will always exist. However, let these people go to limited enclaves where they are accepted. Don't force them on normal communities, and give the normal communities the right to discourage these behaviors with non-violent social pressure.

[heavy]

(07-20-2017 09:42 AM)Only One Man Wrote:  

Yea sure because guys never ever fuck girls in the ass right?

It's as if you've never sat in a math or statistics classroom.

Gays are having waaaayyyyy more butthole sex than straights. It's all they have.

Like I said, I don't think guys here hate gays. Personally, I think gays are gross just because I think other guys are gross. The idea of other people having sex is strange, but at least with hetero and les sex there's at least one chick. Two dudes is disgusting, like thinking about me masturbating is disgusting...no chick.

[Only One Man]

(07-20-2017 09:58 AM)heavy Wrote:  

(07-20-2017 09:42 AM)Only One Man Wrote:  

Yea sure because guys never ever fuck girls in the ass right?

It's as if you've never sat in a math or statistics classroom.

Gays are having waaaayyyyy more butthole sex than straights. It's all they have.

Like I said, I don't think guys here hate gays. Personally, I think gays are gross just because I think other guys are gross. The idea of other people having sex is strange, but at least with hetero and les sex there's at least one chick. Two dudes is disgusting, like thinking about me masturbating is disgusting...no chick.

Well yea I think gay guys are gross too. And obviously gays are having way more butthole sex than straights. But you don't need to have butt sex to spread herpes. Also, busting inside random sluts is a big contributor to single motherhood, which in my opinion is a much bigger plague on society than gay marriage and gay pride parades.

All I'm saying is that if you criticize gays for their sexual behavior (I do all the time) because of the consequences it has for society and then you turn around and brag about fucking random sluts without a condom and busting inside them, you're a fucking hypocrite and also making society worse.

[rpg]

Conversion therapy does work but under stress they will go back to flaming homo in an instant. Gays bring way too much baggage to the table. They don't want to be left alone. They want to be a huge pain in the ass and the center of attention. Working with gays is an eye opener. I would never let them be around kids if I can help it. No impulse control.

[debeguiled]

Whether or not this works, or is legitimate, we all know it will be demonized in the popular media.

I have watched a lot of Youtube videos featuring Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, one of the more prominent practitioners of this type of therapy (he calls it reparative therapy.) He just died this year.

In fact, the most popular video of Nicolosi is a segment from a Stephen Fry show where gay man Fry mocks him.

Nicolosi believes gayness comes from some sort of trauma in childhood related to a distant father and an over involved mother.

He explains this to Fry who at first denies it and then later admits his dad was cold and distant.



Nicolosi makes a persuasive argument for his practice, and here is an interview with him discussing it:

I was raised in an environment with a lot of gays that was very positive towards them. I remember telling my mom when I was like 12 that I thought there was something weird about gayness, and she immediately shamed me out of it, telling me that a local shop owner, who she knew I thought was a cool person, was gay and that I was being judgmental about him.

Pretty heavy mindfuck for a young mind.

Gayness is a question that each person has to work out for themselves. It is not trivial, because so much of gay culture is being pushed on us, and even now there is a big legal push to enforce the celebration of homosexuality.

I find interviews about this subject, particularly the Nicolosi ones, to be a good antidote to the unthinking acceptance of gaiety that is being pushed on us.

Not sure what I think yet, but it is good to have voices pushing against the dominant opinion, to expand what thoughts are acceptable.

[911]

Henry Makow had a good column featuring Nicolosi earlier this month:

https://www.henrymakow.com/2017/07/heter...ollow.html

Some highlights:

"Almost half of the white homosexual males...said that they had had at least 500 different sexual partners during the course of their homosexual careers." (Nicolosi). 28 percent of homosexual males had had sexual encounters with one thousand or more partners. Furthermore, 79 percent said more than half of their sex partners were strangers. Only 1 percent of the sexually active men had had fewer than five lifetime partners."

"McWhirter and Mattison in The Male Couple (1984)...found that not a single male pair was able to maintain fidelity in their relationship for more than five years."

This puts Only One Man's doubts about STDs to rest.

"A study of 34,707 Minnesota youth reported that 25.9 % of 12-years-olds were uncertain if they were heterosexual or homosexual (Remafedi et. al, 1992). In contrast, only about 2 to 3% of adults eventually label themselves as homosexual. This means that approximately 90% of these "sexually questioning" teens could erroneously be identified as homosexual, if they are affirmed as gay by a gay-affirmative therapist, school counsellor or an on-campus gay club."

This is the main battleground, the dissolution of traditional gender identity creating a sizeable and growing segment of vulnerable, sexually confused youth in a society where normal gender roles are increasingly vilified and marginalized. This is what this legislation is all about, it's no longer about those 2%-4% of homosexuals, but about a quarter to a third of youth who are raised in a very toxic culture, a subverted educational system and a lacking or poor family background.

"Being queer means pushing the parameters of sex and family, and in the process, transforming the very fabric of society."
--National Gay and Lesbian Task Force Policy director, Paul Ettelbrick (Kurtz, 2003)

[ElFlaco]

If success in conversion therapy means not engaging in gay sex anymore, that seems doable as long as there's high motivation, probably for religious reasons.

But if the idea is eliminating desires towards other men, I'm skeptical. And creating desire towards women when it isn't already present (not already bisexual in desire) seems unlikely as well.

Overall, it reminds me of spot reducing -- a nice idea not based in reality.

[911]

The concept of reality is very malleable, it is a function of cultural engineering. Reality in 2017 is very different from reality in 1987, when homosexuality was officially classified as abnormal behavior.

Watch the second Nicolosi video posted above by Debeguiled.