[Parzival]

I work as a sales engineer. My company push me hard but the salary is good and it will time by the time I pass and improve. Still the mentality in the company is a blue print for a burn out cooperation. When I look at my manager, he is wasted, same for the other managers and sales guys that work there longer. My manager probably earns about 100k a year. This is good money compare to mine, still for the work he does it don't seem worth it.

Furthermore I'm in Austria, they have a special tax when you get to much bonus. In Germany there isn't such a tax but you have the same glass cell. Reach 100k is for sure possible but everything above 100k to 150k seems to be impossible. Its because the work societies in Europe don't allow such big incomes for most people. Its not a lifestyle where you can become rich by your own beside you found a company or start some other kind of business. I plan my own business at the moment, still I wonder could I earn more when I go to the US, Canada or Australia? I have an engineering degree, work in sales, my company is very professional and I suck out all the skills I can from them. Still its nothing where I see my future long term. The salary is good compare to the average, still not worth this kind of burn out lifestyle. When I live intensive for a job, then I want to get a way more back.

How do you guys consider the changes for a guy in his late 20 / early 30 with less then 5 years experience in sales, when he want to go to an anglo country? Because I want to earn a way more.

[Elster]

One experience I do have of sales in the US is that it doesnt matter so much what you sell but *how* you sell it.
I've worked retail there but I learned this by peddling art in the streets and observing the other street performers, odd stores and markets as well.
I'd say that if you are confident in your ability to sell in whatever context and you are wary of backstabbing (mostly my experience in corporate retail but also a bit in the diva infested art scene) you could do a few years of work with nice dividends stateside.

England I am not familiar with.

[qwertyuiop]

There are sales guys in the US that make upwards of 1M a year (granted they are among the best). Plenty of guys in the 200-400 range in software at least

The US capitalistic system values making money above a lot of other things, and the sales teams are generally rewarded very well. Unlike Europe from what I hear.

[Sonoma]

If you make considerably less than 100 you need to move to America. 100,000 a year is starter pay for fields like that (assuming you're performing)

[The Black Knight]

If you have solid English speaking and writing skills, you can make 150k+ pretty easily as an SE in the US.

However, if seriously considering a move to the US, keep in mind the following:

1. Healthcare costs will be higher; significantly higher if you have a family. That's with a job. Without a job, it will be VERY expensive.

2. If you lose your job/can't work, there is virtually no safety net beyond temporary unemployment benefits that pay out about $1500 max/month. Might be a mute point since you can always go back to your home country.

3. For the most part, you can be fired for no valid reason and with no notice.

4. Do not under any circumstances sign a non-compete agreement. A NDA/confidential agreement should be good enough. Ideally, don't sign anything at all that could impair your ability to take on a new job.

5. Once you get above the low 100's in the US, the tax man starts to hit you up pretty good.

5a. For example (rough example): 175k pre-tax pay will equal around 115k post tax (your take home pay after federal, state, local, FICA taxes). This does not include: health insurance costs of any variety, property taxes, sales taxes, or any optional retirement investments like a 401k. Remember, there is almost no safety net nor job security in the US (ESPECIALLY in sales) and you have to be financially prepared to weather any random events that come about. However, competent SE's with experience have zero issues finding work.

That all said, the best option might be trying to find a US company that wants to sell into your local marketplace. Leverage your local contacts, language skills, and understanding of your immediate economy and culture. Get the US sales culture and pay scale and import to you as oppose to exporting yourself.

My guess would be a US based start-up and/or a mid-size company looking to expand into your region would be the best place to look.

I can get more detailed about this and provide further guidance but PM me if you're interested.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

UK is tough to get a better deal.

Switzerland offers some similar sales jobs making 100k.

The US is still the best in that regard - pharma reps can make 200k - no one in Europe makes that kind of dough as a pharma rep.
But I don't think that the pressure from above and corporate climate is better. You will likely work longer and harder unless you are a sales prodigy who loves to sell and has the right personality for it. Those guys exist, but they usually are into some kind of independent time-share, life-insurance or other sales kind of thing where they can get a ton of premiums with hardly any pressure from above.

[Parzival]

So instead to have all the effort to find something in the US, do the paper work and all the stuff to lets say get into a 200 to 400 k range, I better build up my own business. In the long run either you start your own stuff, you find a less stressful nice job or you living it. The others burn out.

[Nowak]

(07-04-2017 10:55 AM)Parzival Wrote:  

So instead to have all the effort to find something in the US, do the paper work and all the stuff to lets say get into a 200 to 400 k range, I better build up my own business. In the long run either you start your own stuff, you find a less stressful nice job or you living it. The others burn out.

If you want to become rich there really is no better place in the world than the US. Eastern Europe not enough opportunities ,in Western Europe there is a disdain for an overly mercantile culture.

Wall Street Playboys gives lots of information on sales related jobs, but really only relevant in the USA


http://wallstreetplayboys.com/everything...-a-career/


http://wallstreetplayboys.com/how-much-s...llionaire/

[crdr]

^^
I've been in sales since I was 13.
The best salesperson in the world regardless of place is a salesman who learns the ropes, quits to create and sell his own product and service.
Marc Benioff of Salesforce.com is the quintessential example of this.

You wanna earn more? Buck the system and bankroll yourself.
Wallstreet and Silicon Valley? lol. You think the Rat Race is bad in your local city?

Take advice from Wall Street or Silicon Valley with a pound of salt.

[sonoran_]

I was actually considering to make a seperate thread about Wall Street Playboys and their emphasis on sales but might as well just add it here.

How much do you guys agree on the emphasis they place on a sales career? For them, the only 3 options are Wall Street, Silicon Valley or sales.

Not everyone can get into Wall Street and not everyone has the natural gift of numerics ( for quants on the Street and for techies in Silicon Valley).

That leaves us with sales. Basically my question is, can a completely average person go on to learn sales and earn good money or is it a natural gift?

[crdr]

(08-06-2017 04:36 PM)sonoran_ Wrote:  

That leaves us with sales. Basically my question is, can a completely average person go on to learn sales and earn good money or is it a natural gift?

What's a gift without a curse?

There are plenty of rags to riches stories of complete numbskulls making a bunch of money. I took Jordan Belfort's Straight Line Persuasion. I always say. That guy is a rat snake douchebag. But, the system is solid.

Most people who don't like sales have self esteem and motivation issues. They don't like the chaos of it all. They don't like the self reliance and fact that if you don't close, you don't eat. You get past this. You're better than the average salesman with 15 years exp.

It's the highest paid occupation in the world for a reason.

[sonoran_]

I have those self esteem issues you described but I'm slowly starting to put them to rest. When a person has those issues, it creates a negative feedback loop which you can easily get stuck in.

Its weird cause I have some sales experience ( retail, B2B) but nothing involving commission ( I guess that means I dont actually have any sales experience lol).

Once I get my personal issues resolved, Ill definetely try it out, if only to gain valuable skills.

[qwertyuiop]

(08-06-2017 04:41 PM)crdr Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 04:36 PM)sonoran_ Wrote:  

That leaves us with sales. Basically my question is, can a completely average person go on to learn sales and earn good money or is it a natural gift?

What's a gift without a curse?

There are plenty of rags to riches stories of complete numbskulls making a bunch of money. I took Jordan Belfort's Straight Line Persuasion. I always say. That guy is a rat snake douchebag. But, the system is solid.

Most people who don't like sales have self esteem and motivation issues. They don't like the chaos of it all. They don't like the self reliance and fact that if you don't close, you don't eat. You get past this. You're better than the average salesman with 15 years exp.

It's the highest paid occupation in the world for a reason.

eh. lots of guys get cut.

It's a mix of social skills, hustle, and the ability to take rejection. I've seen many people fail out and it takes a certain kind of person to make it happen.

also any legit sales job will have a base salary that is more than enough to pay the bills. (unless you kill the base for 100% comm and a much higher upside) sometimes upwards of 100k -- just for the base salary.

[crdr]

(08-06-2017 08:08 PM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 04:41 PM)crdr Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 04:36 PM)sonoran_ Wrote:  

That leaves us with sales. Basically my question is, can a completely average person go on to learn sales and earn good money or is it a natural gift?

What's a gift without a curse?

There are plenty of rags to riches stories of complete numbskulls making a bunch of money. I took Jordan Belfort's Straight Line Persuasion. I always say. That guy is a rat snake douchebag. But, the system is solid.

Most people who don't like sales have self esteem and motivation issues. They don't like the chaos of it all. They don't like the self reliance and fact that if you don't close, you don't eat. You get past this. You're better than the average salesman with 15 years exp.

It's the highest paid occupation in the world for a reason.

It's a mix of social skills, hustle, and the ability to take rejection. I've seen many people fail out and it takes a certain kind of person to make it happen.

Those skills barely get you in the door.
Closing the sale/Getting the order at margin is what people don't get the concept of...
That's all that matters in sales.

[qwertyuiop]

(08-06-2017 08:16 PM)crdr Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 08:08 PM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 04:41 PM)crdr Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 04:36 PM)sonoran_ Wrote:  

That leaves us with sales. Basically my question is, can a completely average person go on to learn sales and earn good money or is it a natural gift?

What's a gift without a curse?

There are plenty of rags to riches stories of complete numbskulls making a bunch of money. I took Jordan Belfort's Straight Line Persuasion. I always say. That guy is a rat snake douchebag. But, the system is solid.

Most people who don't like sales have self esteem and motivation issues. They don't like the chaos of it all. They don't like the self reliance and fact that if you don't close, you don't eat. You get past this. You're better than the average salesman with 15 years exp.

It's the highest paid occupation in the world for a reason.

It's a mix of social skills, hustle, and the ability to take rejection. I've seen many people fail out and it takes a certain kind of person to make it happen.

Those skills barely get you in the door.
Closing the sale/Getting the order at margin is what people don't get the concept of...
That's all that matters in sales.

until you have no more prospects to sell to and you gotta hit the pavement again.

[crdr]

(08-06-2017 10:45 PM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 08:16 PM)crdr Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 08:08 PM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 04:41 PM)crdr Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 04:36 PM)sonoran_ Wrote:  

That leaves us with sales. Basically my question is, can a completely average person go on to learn sales and earn good money or is it a natural gift?

What's a gift without a curse?

There are plenty of rags to riches stories of complete numbskulls making a bunch of money. I took Jordan Belfort's Straight Line Persuasion. I always say. That guy is a rat snake douchebag. But, the system is solid.

Most people who don't like sales have self esteem and motivation issues. They don't like the chaos of it all. They don't like the self reliance and fact that if you don't close, you don't eat. You get past this. You're better than the average salesman with 15 years exp.

It's the highest paid occupation in the world for a reason.

It's a mix of social skills, hustle, and the ability to take rejection. I've seen many people fail out and it takes a certain kind of person to make it happen.

Those skills barely get you in the door.
Closing the sale/Getting the order at margin is what people don't get the concept of...
That's all that matters in sales.

until you have no more prospects to sell to and you gotta hit the pavement again.

If you did a good job closing the customers you have. You would ideally be reselling, upselling and cross selling them so you don't have to 'hit the pavement'

[qwertyuiop]

(08-06-2017 10:53 PM)crdr Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 10:45 PM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 08:16 PM)crdr Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 08:08 PM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 04:41 PM)crdr Wrote:  

What's a gift without a curse?

There are plenty of rags to riches stories of complete numbskulls making a bunch of money. I took Jordan Belfort's Straight Line Persuasion. I always say. That guy is a rat snake douchebag. But, the system is solid.

Most people who don't like sales have self esteem and motivation issues. They don't like the chaos of it all. They don't like the self reliance and fact that if you don't close, you don't eat. You get past this. You're better than the average salesman with 15 years exp.

It's the highest paid occupation in the world for a reason.

It's a mix of social skills, hustle, and the ability to take rejection. I've seen many people fail out and it takes a certain kind of person to make it happen.

Those skills barely get you in the door.
Closing the sale/Getting the order at margin is what people don't get the concept of...
That's all that matters in sales.

until you have no more prospects to sell to and you gotta hit the pavement again.

If you did a good job closing the customers you have. You would ideally be reselling, upselling and cross selling them so you don't have to 'hit the pavement'

You can only do that so much. Eventually you have to go out and get more biz if you seriously want to expand.

[crdr]

(08-06-2017 11:19 PM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 10:53 PM)crdr Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 10:45 PM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 08:16 PM)crdr Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 08:08 PM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  

It's a mix of social skills, hustle, and the ability to take rejection. I've seen many people fail out and it takes a certain kind of person to make it happen.

Those skills barely get you in the door.
Closing the sale/Getting the order at margin is what people don't get the concept of...
That's all that matters in sales.

until you have no more prospects to sell to and you gotta hit the pavement again.

If you did a good job closing the customers you have. You would ideally be reselling, upselling and cross selling them so you don't have to 'hit the pavement'

You can only do that so much. Eventually you have to go out and get more biz if you seriously want to expand.

You cannot expand without retention.

[crdr]

OP,
You need about $200M + street cred to be taken seriously in San Fran and New York.
Cash out of your start up with at least $40M to begin... Then work your way up... *Rare*
This is why you see all those new young founders sell so big so reluctantly.
To be a player on both coasts you have to have massive amounts of cash flow.

If not, you're either a jaded millionaire who knows you just got played. Which is the going rate.
Or a happy naive millionaire who loves to be played.

But, never ever the multi-millionaire who any say...

[qwertyuiop]

(08-06-2017 11:24 PM)crdr Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 11:19 PM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 10:53 PM)crdr Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 10:45 PM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 08:16 PM)crdr Wrote:  

Those skills barely get you in the door.
Closing the sale/Getting the order at margin is what people don't get the concept of...
That's all that matters in sales.

until you have no more prospects to sell to and you gotta hit the pavement again.

If you did a good job closing the customers you have. You would ideally be reselling, upselling and cross selling them so you don't have to 'hit the pavement'

You can only do that so much. Eventually you have to go out and get more biz if you seriously want to expand.

You cannot expand without retention.

Probably true. But any entryish level sales job is not going to be upselling big accounts.