[General Stalin]

My guess is that if OP went on a good 'ole fashion cut he'd probably see the results he's looking for.

[zatara]

(06-14-2017 11:23 AM)Steelex Wrote:  

We simply have different ideas of what is achieveable. Mine are based on what I've done and the time it took me to do it, as well as what I've seen others do, some of whom I train.

Now granted, this isn't a hobby for me. I've had decent placings at local and regional shows and think I have a good shot at earning my pro card before I turn 35. But it's not a hobby. Origami is a hobby. It starts at breakfast and dictates how my day goes. But if the OP isn't happy with his results, the onus is on him to create better ones. The whole premise of limiting your expectations of yourself based on what other people achieve is self defeating. It should always be "I need to do better and push harder, and harder, and harder, to get what I want".

Being better than 9 out of 10 means you're better than the other 9 who didn't do a fucking thing to better themselves. It's no gold medal.

You started off by telling the OP he should aim to be stronger than most athletes playing in the NFL and implied that because he wasn't is likely why he looks bad. This is terrible life advice, and should not be let sit unchallenged.

You can wrap this up in as many "WELL IN MY LIFE EXPERIENCE ITS ACHIEVABLE. JUST TRY HARDER" anecdotes as you want, but your claims are completely at odds with strength and conditioning stats for professional athletes across the world.

So on the one hand we have professional athletes and their verifiable stats and training programs telling us one thing, and on the other we have internet poster Steelex on a forum saying benchpressing 400lbs is something 'anybody' can do.

Now maybe you know better than them, or maybe you really should just admit you either a) don't know what you're talking about or b) were exaggerating or c) were posting more to boast about your own claimed strength than to help the OP.

Based on the above quoted post, I'm leaning towards c).

This is all veering somewhat off topic away from giving the OP direct advice. But one of the reasons this forum has such a good general standard of posting is because people are willing to call new posters on their bullshit when they post information that is either unhelpful or just plain wrong - as your initial advice was.

[General Stalin]

This isn't the first time user Steelex needlessly bullied someone on the forum, but regardless his second paragraph in his response shows you mostly what you need to know.

The difference between someone who is a competitive powerlifter and someone who is a casual lifter heading to the gym for general fitness and aesthetic is night and day. Someone who eats sleeps and breathes iron telling you working up to a 400 lbs. bench in 4 years starting from greenhorn is like an MLB pitcher telling you humming a 90 mph fastball is not big deal. Steelex apparently lives in a different world. I personally work out in a powerlifting gym with many advanced and elite-level lifters who have been in the gym since they were in highschool. I can count on one hand how many of the dudes in there can bench press 4 plates with no assistance.

OP almost doubled his bench press in 4 years. That's solid progress that one should be proud of. Granted the first year was likely newbie gains and the 5 lbs. plates came on easy, at a certain point he got stronger through training over the course of time.

The first post in this thread isn't OP saying he isn't stronger than when he started - he saying he doesn't have the physical aesthetic he desires given the work he feels he has done in the gym. The problem is likely a mix of his diet and training. If you want more mass and more aesthetic you may want to looking at training more like a body builder. Lots of high rep and high frequency hypertrophy work, asymmetrical training, and cutting lots of excess body weight.

[Ringo]

(06-14-2017 12:36 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

The first post in this thread isn't OP saying he isn't stronger than when he started - he saying he doesn't have the physical aesthetic he desires given the work he feels he has done in the gym.

A lot of people have unreal expectations of what they can achieve.

The speculation on this thread would be much more profitable to the OP if he posted a before and after picture, as well as a "goal body" taken from the internet.

In reality he probably improved his lean mass, he just can't see it. But he needs to make sure his expectation is in line with his genetics and lifestyle - if he's got a barrel-chested, powerlifter physique it's going to be hard to get to Brad Pitt in Fight Club, and vice-versa.

[General Stalin]

Agreed. It's important to devise a plan that aligns with your goals. If you primary goal in the gym is to cut weight and grow lean muscle mass then a starting strength program may not be the best choice, at least not for long term, because it does not introduce the sort of work that conducive to promoting lots of mass building and fat shedding.

[ElFlaco]

Delete

[ElFlaco]

(06-14-2017 01:07 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

If your primary goal in the gym is to cut weight and grow lean muscle mass then a starting strength program may not be the best choice

(06-14-2017 01:02 PM)Ringo Wrote:  

The speculation on this thread would be much more profitable to the OP if he posted a before and after picture, as well as a "goal body" taken from the internet.

Good suggestion. Should apply to all similar threads. The OP could probably shoot for something like BuiltFat or BearMode.

[Kieran]

I think I remember Stuart McRobert saying 300 on the flat bench was a realistic goal for the average trainee. I believe 315 for a single is very realistic, but it will take a lot more specialisation than a 5 x 5 linear progression program to get there. 350 - 400 on the incline for an average natural - not happening. 275 would be more realistic.

[S3K2]

All this talk about what op did in the gym and no talk about what really matters, his diet. Diet and Testosterone levels please before I chime in.

How motivated were you op? Have you ever ate so much food you puked? Have you ate under 1600 calories per day, everyday, for 90 days straight? Have you ever became depressed while on a cut? All these things are normal and what it takes to see a diffrence..

Forget about how much you lift right now. Forget about what you look like. You already stated what you need. Change. Now you just have to figure out what to change. I would start with your diet. Eat 2g of protein times your body weight everyday. Limit your carbs, mediocre to low fat.

Next, are you over 35? Get on TRT. Some great articles here on the subject.

[Kid Twist]

(06-14-2017 01:02 PM)Ringo Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 12:36 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

The first post in this thread isn't OP saying he isn't stronger than when he started - he saying he doesn't have the physical aesthetic he desires given the work he feels he has done in the gym.

A lot of people have unreal expectations of what they can achieve.

The speculation on this thread would be much more profitable to the OP if he posted a before and after picture, as well as a "goal body" taken from the internet.

In reality he probably improved his lean mass, he just can't see it. But he needs to make sure his expectation is in line with his genetics and lifestyle - if he's got a barrel-chested, powerlifter physique it's going to be hard to get to Brad Pitt in Fight Club, and vice-versa.

Good post, Ringo. While for the average person (average means doesn't do much, certainly not train with weights) lifting and eating better will provide health and some benefits, certainly strength and some cosmetics, I lean more towards people underestimating genetic barriers, just like you indicate.

I've also been thinking a lot lately about how what I call physical "equity" contributes to who you are, what you look like currently, and what you can do. I played 3 sports for all my adolescence, started to pretty seriously weight train in early 20s, and have kept it up since. My margin for error health and training wise is much larger, therefore. But I'm also naturally lean. The point is that you have years of "teaching" your muscles and neural networks which are crucial to be able to remember and bounce back. New people, or those later in life, will see gains but there are so many factors against you when starting later.

In addition, something like the set-point theory is generally true without extraordinary effort. I would have to do anabolic steroids and/or eat all day/work out twice to gain even 5+% more mass. And I don't even weigh that much. To put average Joe on a crazy diet and lifting program and cut him up would be possible with unreal discipline over months, and a guy like Tony Horton by his side. But then he would revert, just like the movie stars or whoever do. They'll go back to Tim Horton's (: or at least a more stable state.

The number of fat asses or chubs that you see peel off that shell and get ripped is an extraordinarily low number. Usually this is because those with potential genetically were always gonna be active from an early age.

As just above also, it turns out it's 80% diet, because you can go at most to the gym once or twice a day, but theoretically you could be eating (and bad stuff) all day.

[Abe Lincoln]

I don't agree with the protien or TRT recommendations. Eating no more than 1/2 to 1 gram of protien per lb is more than enough and won't be an issue impeding gains. I think 1/2 per pound is plenty and more won't hurt but you've already eaten enough to maintain and grow muscles at 1/2 gram per lb. The science supports this.

TRT is totally unnecessary unless you know for a fact low T is the only thing holding you back. If you eat at a slight surplus (no more than 300-500 cal a day) and are lifting weights that are heavy enough that you will fail in the 6-8 rep range, then your muscles will grow period. This will continue until you get near your strength limits. No TRT no 1-2 grams of protien per pound. Being 35-45 or even older does not at all mean TRT is automatically necessary.

The only question is how much muscle your body will hold. Depends on your build. OP sounds strong to me just a little overweight. We really need to know his height/weight/type of build. And if he is telling the truth about repping 250 five times. Not talking trash but that's very strong and I'm having trouble visualizing anyone who can do that and who looks weak in any way shape or form.

[aeroektar]

All the advice Rex needed was given out in this thread from October thread-58910-page-3.html

Why was none of that applied?

[RexImperator]

Yes, I need to diet and I find it extremely difficult to lose fat. Whenever I cut back on calories, I inevitably expend less energy. If I push myself in the weight room, I get hungry and tend to eat too much. It just feels like my body wants to hold on to that belly fat more than anything. I probably need something more extreme than dialing back on calories slowly, but I'm concerned it would impair my ability to think.

I haven't weighed myself in a couple of weeks but I was sitting around the 255lb. mark.

In that pic above I look closest to "built fat", but imagine adding more belly and chest fat (however not as bad as the "Fatass").

I'm sure my lifts have declined sonewhat since the fall but my other personal records were 405x1 in the Squat and 460x3 in the Deadlift. Press was 170x5.

[General Stalin]

Those are respectable numbers man and honestly given your starting numbers I would expect those kinds of gains over 3-4 years. Good work.

You have the strength the only piece is losing the excess fat. Dieting is NOT easy but you gotta find a method that works for you. Try intermittent fasting a lot of people get great results with that and it's relatively easy to do.

[doc holliday]

(06-14-2017 05:12 PM)aeroektar Wrote:  

All the advice Rex needed was given out in this thread from October thread-58910-page-3.html

Why was none of that applied?

Because all Rex wants to do is complain and attention monger. He's lazy as hell and has no interest in working hard to improve himself. He, more than any other forum member, has been given more help and advice to improve himself yet does nothing about it. This thread of advice will also go onto his deaf ears. Clearly his diet is a mess if he's gaining that strength but still has a big gut and man boobs but you know he won't do a thing about it. Quite simply, I think Rex is lazy and unmotivated pure and simple. Nothing else with this cat.

[blck]

(06-14-2017 06:00 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

(06-14-2017 05:12 PM)aeroektar Wrote:  

All the advice Rex needed was given out in this thread from October thread-58910-page-3.html

Why was none of that applied?

Because all Rex wants to do is complain and attention monger. He's lazy as hell and has no interest in working hard to improve himself. He, more than any other forum member, has been given more help and advice to improve himself yet does nothing about it. This thread of advice will also go onto his deaf ears. Clearly his diet is a mess if he's gaining that strength but still has a big gut and man boobs but you know he won't do a thing about it. Quite simply, I think Rex is lazy and unmotivated pure and simple. Nothing else with this cat.

[RexImperator]

Quote:

Those are respectable numbers man and honestly given your starting numbers I would expect those kinds of gains over 3-4 years. Good work.

Thanks. I could have gotten stronger but at a certain point I got totally disgusted with being so heavy and resolved to cut back my calories no matter what. However, it has not been enough to lose much weight. For the most part I just stay the same weight.

Quote:

You have the strength the only piece is losing the excess fat. Dieting is NOT easy but you gotta find a method that works for you.

I agree that I need to figure something out- just cutting out extra calories is not enough. I may try paleo again.

[aeroektar]

Your goal is fat loss, paleo doesn't mean shit if your still in a surplus or hovering around maintenance. You know what you have to do, take it seriously or give up, your just spinning your wheels man.

[churros]

Cardio has, I presume, already been suggested? Dieting is no fun.

[Captain Gh]

aeroektar is definitely onto something here! OP keeps on focusing on his bench #... while not taking the time to describe the elements of his diet. Well newsflash... we all know that you eat like shit OP. Every time I hear someone talking of cutting back calories... and never breaking down their macros from how much carbs... protein and fats they're getting... I know I'm dealing with someone who doesn't have a clue how to eat. Losing weight is simple... but no one said it was easy! OP's mind ain't strong enough for this challenge...yet! Only He can change that.

[Atomic]

The constant theme here is people asking for more information, height/weight/diet, etc. We are 3 pages and 2 days into this thread and Rex has yet to give any information other than "Im 255 and my diet sucks".

It's easy to hit the gym for an hour every other day. It's easy to come up with a basic meal plan with balanced macros. It's very hard and requires a lot of dedication to actually stick to that meal plan. Go take your clothes off, stand naked in front of a full length mirror, and ask yourself "What do I value more, health/aesthetics or leisure and my current diet".

If you value health/aesthetics more post your average day-to-day diet including any sugary soda/snacks/beer. Post your favorite types of food. Someone will develop a meal plan with balanced macros that is based around things you like.

If you value your leisurely diet more, let the thread die.

[RexImperator]

For the last few weeks I've been trying a low carb / high fat diet (I've read this is good for people with insulin resistance): about 25% carb, 50% fat, and 25% protein. About 2500 calories per day. Height is 73 inches.

[Steelex]

Why is your protein set at 25 percent?

Whether its muscle building or fat burning you want to keep protein at around 1g per pound of bodyweight or better. So that would be 1000 cals from protein, then distribute the remaining 1500 between carbs and fats.

What's your eating frequency?

Do you eat carbs before bed? You shouldn't

Have you tried fasted morning cardio with a fat burner??

I've got a bunch of good tricks to drop fat.

[redbeard]

(06-14-2017 11:08 AM)Mess O. Wrote:  

Does Rex have any progress pics, maybe start and current?

If anyone else reading this wants a serious aesthetic assessment, they could post progress pictures in the private forum. Maybe make one giant thread for everyone to strip down in.

[RexImperator]

Alright, I'll post some more background information (and answer questions I missed) later today.