[Eddie Winslow]

(06-14-2017 06:51 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

If beating off were as fulfilling as fucking a whore, and if fucking a whore were as fulfilling as acquiring sex on a non-paid basis then there would be no more human race. Stone age man would have beat his meat into old age and the species would have died out.

You could just as easily say that drinking water and eating stale bread from the dumpster behind the local supermarket is free and it'll keep you alive, so why waste money buying steak, much less hunting deer.

TL;DR If you aren't willing to approach the most attractive girls you are capable of sleeping with in real life, you're the cause of the current situation in America. You may as well beat off or pay a hooker instead of dumpster diving for low-hanging fruit on Tinder.

I agree fully with your analogy aside from (correct me if this is not what you are saying) that risk-free swiping for 5s is comparable to hunting for wild game. If 5s, who we all know "e-approached" dozens if not hundreds of times per day, chooses to go out with a man from Tinder, that same man certainly is way out of her league. He can do way better if he approached in real life, but he's eating the stale bread from the dumpster.

Maybe its a bit off topic, but I just picked this thread to share my opinion that dumpster diving on Tinder for girls you aren't even really interested in is no better than banging a whore. Actually, it's probably worse. For that reason, I don't understand why guys are so eager to brag about every detail of their sloppy Bumble dates with self-described 5s like its an accomplishment, but are quick to talk down on people who just get to the point and bang whores.

[jselysianeagle]

(06-14-2017 10:42 PM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  

I don't understand why guys are so eager to brag about every detail of their sloppy Bumble dates with self-described 5s like its an accomplishment, but are quick to talk down on people who just get to the point and bang whores.

In one of my very first posts on this forum I mentioned how I didn't see why guys were bragging abt porking 5s and 6s off of Tinder in the "I just had sex thread", but it hurt some people's feelings, lol. Whatevs

[Premium]

Okay..peeps for those of you that don't read entire threads and just shoot out comments...I'll have to move on for the rest... or the thread dies

level 10 women are everywhere but why doesn't the regular schmuck see any?

did they just disappear after high school or college? Yes they did they had to

Actually level 9 or 10 women find out quick that beauty is a curse and isolate themselves. Boyfriends find out first hand the crap these women go through daily and it drives them batty...9 and 10 girls are statistically the loneliest people on earth

beautiful goddesses ...the average woman even hate them, bosses terrorize them ,morons on the street hit on them actually any encounter by "barbie" with society hurts.

the Tinder trolls realize they'll never get a 9 or 10 (never seen one for real) .... doesn't matter to the advertiser who created programs (bots) and spam links into Tinder that make the Tinder trolls ignore 9 or 10 level chicks and go for the "right swipe" 6 maybe a 7. (being the local bar whores usually)

Western guys do honest assessments of themselves rating themselves around 7 or 8 (with 10 inch dicks) ....and search for chicks they think they can meet/fuck 6's or 7's (locally or out of country)

Above I wrote 9 and 10's do exist locally....they don't do much (can't).....but it doesn't mean they aren't on FB or Tinder which leads me to the point I don't think western guys have got to....putting up great bullshit profiles (attached to tinder) ....stop being honest....the advertisers sell bullshit dreams.....it works ...start over selling yourselves....suits sports cars mansions and jets...no more realistic life crap in a baseball cap

The point is APPS may as well go in the garbage if you can meet the same level 6 chick by going down to the local bar (fresh air walk will do ya good) and unknown to the APP user...your being directed to a level 6 girl anyways.

[rudebwoy]

Read an interesting study recently, these level 9 or 10 girls have trouble getting work sometimes.

As you know HR is made up of a lot of old hags, these chicks wont hire these women because of jealousy.

Interesting theory, not sure I believe it.

[Dalaran1991]

(06-15-2017 09:08 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Read an interesting study recently, these level 9 or 10 girls have trouble getting work sometimes.

As you know HR is made up of a lot of old hags, these chicks wont hire these women because of jealousy.

Interesting theory, not sure I believe it.

Bullshit theory considering that no hot chick ever go the traditional job ==> HR application way. Almost all of them have jobs way better than they deserve, and almost all of them got it through a guy with a position of power. Sometimes new positions are opened up for them out of the blue.

Remember that HR only have power over beta guys and paper alpha who are succesful but gameless. Against a hot slut the old hags can scheme and plot what they want, HR has no say if the director wants a new hot secretary.

Most of these girls are not actually "working" though. the hot girls I know work in Finance cant use an Excel command to save her life, but are in Investments teams. They are there for the cocktail/business events where their hot ass makes signing a contract way easier. That's also how they monkey branch to another job btw.

The only exception is when the chief CEO / manager is also a woman, as in the case with my old intern place. However these women are sharp, and even they recognize the values of having some juicy boobs in the company portfolio. They are most often ex-hottie themselves (rare breed), in which case they will recruit hottie with at least some basic competence.

Back to OP, I dont think there's much to worry about. Saying every hot girl will ask $ for sex, is like saying every hot girls are models. Sure, you pay one way or the other, but there has always been that guy, that the hot girl fucks and buy gifts for, using $ from the beta. Every era of human history. Game will adapt and evolve to get around this like it has always done.

[Premium]

Rudeboy has figured it out....I had one manager that bought a 1 year supply of industrial hand cleaner cause he couldn't say no to a hot (10) sales girl....(he hid the boxes under his desk...LMAO)..... so Dalaran is correct hot chicks who are aware of what their value is can be a real asset to companies (yeah sexist...they ain't complaining)

It's agreed then or is it? That women today (20 to 30) are busier (than ever)....are more confused.....have more self inflicted clutter on their minds...tend to have a small circle of real friends and a large social network .....are relationship risk adverse so dabble out of loneliness/sexual frustration with internet platforms

...woman's view as always is all the good men are taken.... where are all the good men......why do I pick losers.....I want a baby? but not the marriage (that's a guess).

I lived in a cluster of executive style high-rises I could look across to another apartment tower and see 10 or 12 chicks (or guys) at any given time sitting alone staring at their smartphones ...if they opened the fridge it was empty maybe a pre made salad (I guess or pre-made something) and wine bottles.....then turn on the T.V and stare at their smart phone....I lived their for 3 years ...some people moved out some moved in...but nothing changed with most of the girls that were still there. .(well I saw brushing stuff I assumed cat fur)... isolated shut ins

There is 4 sides to a tower....30 floors....so extrapolate

Off to work to catch the subway... ... working girls passing me by (always in a rush) me I was enjoying the view. (older guys do that)..most were staring at there smartphones....and on the subway platform and during subway ride....you get the picture.

the young guys doing the same..but most had cheap wrinkled suits....or pale white...or chubby.

my point is ..these chicks are doing something on these phones (24/7) but it isn't in my rough estimation "hook ups" ...maybe 24/7 angry birds.

or are they living a pseudo life on FB? I can certainly tell you none have personalities.... with that shit isolated life.....no warmth not family oriented....none cook....just a sterile selfish existence.

Figuring out how to crack those shutins....it'd be a bonanza of pussy.

Living in a smaller city now...chicks here actually go out and interact...a lot better...but all still stare at the smartphone.(not so much)

[questor70]

(06-15-2017 09:58 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

The only exception is when the chief CEO / manager is also a woman

What about hot CEOs that tank companies?

Marissa Mayer is the poster-child.



She also backstabbed feminism by banning work-from-home and then proceeded to take maternity leave for herself and then exited with a golden parachute.

Female bosses may have a reputation for being bitchy, but I'm fine with that if they actually do their job well, rather than just look good as a symbol of breaking the glass ceiling.

[underboss]

Take a look in your local Craigslist to get a better idea.

Compare m4w vs w4m in both sections.

There's a new male seeking a woman ad every minute (even in smaller cities), and they are typically real ads. A lot are offering free rent, help with bills, some even US citizenship to a pretty foreign lady.

Women seeking men, very few real ones, and they are looking for roses.

[Premium]

I think my generation is to blame. I accept it! maybe not

When I was young every bar had a local band in it Friday/Saturday (or touring bands) with dance floors (States was same..but better they had spot lights on guys/girls dancing...and parties for the younger crowd prior to bar serving booze) fuck did us guys have a fun night out and of course the chicks were wearing their finest and having fun ...later at night when the bar closed (after 2 last calls for the bands to come back out) we'd get together with chicks and party some more.

Sometime in the 90's the gen X'rs I guess went for the music video's, men became big hair boy-ish, more lazy it seemed, and the local bar scene started dwindling people wise (actually 2 weekends of boring nights was enough for me to stop going and months later bars started to close down). The music video's... I'd be saying to the guys on weekends let's go! it's almost 9 at night...and there like no no platinum blonde is coming up next and I thought WTF is happening to these idiots don't they want to go party? ( I hung with gen x'rs my other buds had got married or moved off)

Up to other people to figure out when bars became sausage palaces and nightclubs for 3000 people arrived...maybe it started in 2000's. I read today this is 20th anniversary of the cell phone. but not many peeps had those big clunkers back in 2000. I do remember being in AOL chat rooms it was pretty feisty (code of conduct came out..sites started shutting down). Also I'm still getting 12 years later Russian spam from OLGA's to my old yahoo account...ahhh the first Russian date sites I joined.

Things got pretty shitty starting in 2000 ( it must of... if I was on a Russian date site) I think the media (medium) started to give people everything they felt they needed and of course they continue to do it with better stuff today

now we have the millennials an entirely different animal.. but like I wrote in the first paragraph going out is supposed to be FUN and when girls are around even better (focus on this peeps when going out..not the fuck).... frustration or too high expectation on oneself or the night is winding today's guys up.

In my day girls always followed us guys around to get in on the excitement...I think the girls haven't changed but maybe the guys did.
Lastly in the old days (covered wagons) when guys went to the bars we welcomed buddies we haven't seen or guys we never met and bought them a beer... at some point friendliness turned to suspicion of other guys and big groups become smaller and went off doing there own stuff. I'm glad Roosh did this site.sharing idea's..including meetups it's more fun with like minded peeps..and the chicks will come later

[DVY]

Honestly you can bang whores for free too.

I have this level 5 stalker high end escort who i've blocked on 5 different apps. She always wants to bang me, offers me free flights everywhere, etc.

A lot of these girls have no skills. Theyd rather make 1k banging some dude than 200 buxs working 8 hrs serving sushi. Can't say I blame them....dont know where all this hate is coming from.

This is the easiest time in the world to get laid. Finding a good girl, well thats a whole another ballgame

[PapayaTapper]

(06-18-2017 02:08 PM)DVY Wrote:  

This is the easiest time in the world to get laid. Finding a good girl, well thats a whole another ballgame

^^^^^^^

[Robert Plant]

@ Premium, yes in a lot of places relationships have become more transactional and bar/club scenes have become all about competition to get laid. In other places though, Salt Lake City and Latin America come to mind, people still go out to have fun. Southern California is on the other hand is on the extreme of transnational relationships and brutal competition in nightgame.

@DVY, it is just as easy to get laid now as ever but certain places and game styles have become harder (e.g. nightgame and any city where there has been a tech boom). To find a good girl, look for someone who is cute to you but most other guys wouldn't really notice her. For example a nerdy 22-26 year old with a cute face and a great body who doesn't really know how to dress yet is clean and neat.

[Slam]

(06-18-2017 02:08 PM)DVY Wrote:  

This is the easiest time in the world to get laid. Finding a good girl, well thats a whole another ballgame

^This x10.

[Premium]

Exactly the point I put forward that guys are lowering their sights from the 10's good girls...to meh a 6 or 7 good girl...as I wrote above (somewhere) chicks that are 9 or 10's are socially isolated by not only other women...but put on a pedestal and avoided by guys who have zero confidence.

Off Topic (item I recently read).....how important is positive feedback loops for ALL women....a girl will go to work and chat about how they feel with there girlfriend (maybe for 8 hours)....so they talk till they both feel better.....the girl leaves work and while riding the subway back some other chick frowns at her shoes....that's all it takes ..as soon as the girl gets back to her place she calls her co worker (after already spending 8 hours talking) and needs reassurance and figure out the shoe problem...to feel better.

Amazingly this happens almost everyday.....Guys are result oriented...find the problem..fix it...plan for next problem

Chicks need guys to reassure them, to value, to center them, protect them stuff like that... A chick that's a 10 isn't getting anything and at some point...screws come undone (if chicks get depressed over just shoes...imagine what being called a skank or hoe does to them)....and I put forward that in today's America 8..9...10 level girls find value..acceptance..in amateur prostitution (tinder or other apps)...and rot on FB looking for valueless 5000 likes (but hey who else says I like you..in real life)

Chicks unless drunk won't approach guys directly...A chick that does approach a guy and gets rejected would need 5 girlfriends to put her back together (and maybe a therapist) emotionally....The ladies are absolutely STARVING out there for a non drunk guy to make the first move.

So this is the situation in America the men became passive, thinking that is what women like,...and lost confidence in themselves....but the women's message all they wanted was a little more sensitivity.not a complete wimp....so now America has Planet of the Wimps starring Carrot Top

A chick looks for POWER,FAME,MONEY....they want to stay at the same status level or go up a notch. (my first paragraph tells you were guys will go...down in status from maybe a 8 to a 6)...and since ALL women are the same mentally the same result will happen to a dude if the girls a 10 or a 2

ALL chicks look to the above 3 items as primary sources where confidence comes from....women need confidence it's attractive (it's also in bad boys). Confidence is associated with "taking the lead", security,comfort,"...women are passive, and submissive and like a dominate to take charge (tall short fat any color any religion,any culture doesn't matter...if there is no "ideal" she'll settle...so it must be extremely important to have a confident man to a woman...ya think)

So guess what happens when Mr Nice guy..does approach ...Ms Nice girl....Nice guys finish last .... girls view nice passive guys as needy..that have to be coddled and reassured it's okay to cry.....why would chicks want to marry another chick?

So yes I agree it's the best time for any guys because confident ALPHA's are virtually extinct (if chicks were dying of thirst in the desert and men were water she's gotta drink from what's around)

even confident guys on death row get girlfriends and wives. those are the real bad boys!

Even more disturbing....Hot female High School teachers falling in love with boys... Oregon,Texas,Florida I think most recent...female teachers like wise Canada also.

not spelcheck'd ...just rambled on

[kosko]

The biggest shit I have seen over the years is not the whores, it is men, young men, who will engage me in conversation and many times ask me where rub and tugs are or where to get escorts. Typically when I am out late at night it involves me swooping or attempting to swoop so I will mention that in a conversation. It would be a situation where I did not make anything line up and I guess maybe they glean from that, and ask, I have no idea, but I just notice it more now.

In Toronto it is quite bad. I know a dude in the hotel business and because of AirBNB gutting out lots of regular travellers who are young he tells me that escorts make up a good chunk of their consistent business outside of business travellers.

Next, my buddy works as a property manager and many new condo buildings in Toronto, if they have lax entry to get a rental, will be filled with escorts. He tells me he actually does not mind them in the buildings because they are quiet and always pay rent early and on time. They don't like to draw attention to themselves so they just pay and keep things quiet all the time. Lots of them live in the Park Lawn Lakeshore Condos here in Toronto.

The dating and sexual market are almost completely broken. This is typiically what happens before it completely cracks is the rampant growth of p4p. You don't need to be married to partake. Many times young professionals will put aside $300-500 bucks a month to get their rocks off each week or two. You can even get the Government to pay for some of the "messages" from a rub and tug if you tell your doctor you got a bad back. The Spas will bill a portion.

This is what makes the market so fucked up. Every girl has multiple things on the go. If you are not within that top 3-5 of dudes she is entertaining she will ghost.

Related... One of the reasons I know like messaging girls on Snapchat is because the emojis will change when you become a favourite of hers. If there is a dialogue going back and forth the emjoi changes, and then you become "best friends" but it isn't static, as she can favour other people and it will fade away. An assessment from this is that her core group of females friends will always stay the same, so shifts likely come from dudes IMO.

In the end, the market will have to crash before it corrects itself. Until then the next step, as mentioned, is pay-to-talk. Where girls will not go out on any dates or be seen with a man unless she is getting something in return, either food, gifts, or outright money.

[ziggystardust]

(06-18-2017 10:24 PM)kosko Wrote:  

In the end, the market will have to crash before it corrects itself. Until then the next step, as mentioned, is pay-to-talk. Where girls will not go out on any dates or be seen with a man unless she is getting something in return, either food, gifts, or outright money.

Until that happens I'm gonna bide my time. There's a lot of hamstring in these threads about how it's much easier to stand out now due to the amount of thirsty dudes artificially raising women's expectations with money etc. I'd like to believe it. But I'm not seeing it. It's pretty easy for a chick to find a masculine dude as long as she spends the hour wading through all her online requests.

[underboss]

It's not easier, men like saying it's easier simply to sound cooler/confident/more alpha/etc than they probably are.

Compared to 3 or 4 years ago, it's much harder now.

[ziggystardust]

It's not the easiest time to get laid right now at all.

I'm not even forever alone right now, but from my experience, the dating market was fairly navigable up through 2012. Now it's quite a different story. I can still manage to get dates and smash after jumping through metaphorical hoops, but it's a lot more work for less of a reward. And a common theme I'm noticing is girls turning dates into job interviews: "What do you do for work? How much do you make? You're not anti-feminist are you?" blah blah blah... Just being a masculine man who doesn't put up with shit in world of supposedly thumb sucking beta males, does not make you a god among men in this wierd time period of relationships. Girls expectations in a man have raised since the dawn of spam approach dating apps and instagram selfies. They aren't experiencing any level of 'thirst' from what I can see. And I vi any member who thinks this is the case to validate their claim with anything other than arm-chair theory.

[Robert Plant]

The current situation on this thread is that everyone is being negative. The solution: APPROACH, APPROACH, APPROACH.

[Robert Plant]

I'm not trying to be a dick with the above comments. I just know personally that when I get into negative thinking, complaining about it makes it worse. Some other suggestions:

1. Take a break from game and try some new activities.

2. Take a break from game and try making friends with some girls instead of banging them. Literally set a goal for this (eg I am going to friend 3 girls in the next month). I'm not sure on this one as I haven't done it since I was game unaware, but if one could keep some women friends around it could make them an all around better guy. The problem I see here is that a lot of WHITE, AMERICAN women are extremely difficult to be friends with (too transactional). But learning that through 1st hand experience can be a valuable lesson.

3. Take a break from internet forums, while continuing game. You might have to actually set a limit, like "I will not go on any forums for 1 month". This one has worked wonders for me in the past.

4. Open up your mind.

Everyone, even the slags we all complain about are just trying to be happy. In their quest to be happy a lot of people chase false gods (E.g. average looking girls trying to land a famous guy on Tinder.) If you can have compassion for other people regardless of how self defeating they are, it will make you a better, happier person.

[PapayaTapper]

(06-19-2017 10:15 AM)Robert Plant Wrote:  

The current situation on this thread is that everyone is being negative. The solution: APPROACH, APPROACH, APPROACH.

Mindset is everything. Scientifically it's called "Pygmalion Effect" or "Rosenthal Effect"



Mindset is why winners win and losers lose...at everything

[Premium]

@ziggystardust interesting points...

"Girls expectations in a man have raised since the dawn of spam approach dating apps and instagram selfies"
"They (girls) aren't experiencing any level of 'thirst' from what I can see"

Your point ...girls expectations have raised since "internet" but their "need" for a relationship has remained the same. (hope I got it)

I think we can all agree with that

.....I'd add that because of the "internet" crap....A girl meeting a guy in a bar/coffee shop ...may want to "weed out the dud" faster with a lot more questioning. (would that be a fair statement?)

This thread is to understand the state of game in America....Game through or buy using the internet have created not just expectations....(America's overdoes everything...from eating to spam)....but in some personalities unrealistic beliefs (too be smashed) and jaded

Guys, that like the ground game just want to go out have a nice time maybe meet someone "new" or even better get laid.
But like Ziggy wrote on girls interrogation process, there's MORE OF IT

I had a chick months ago that wanted to see my drivers license at the bar....(hesitantly) like a knob I showed it to her "because that's the culture". I read chicks want guys FB up front to check out.

What happens if a guy see's his internet "hook-up" and asks to see a print out of his dates actual weight? Is the chick asking for identification the only one in control? Is she the "REAL ONE". ( I want to see pictures without make-up...just me though)....I'll go further it's FAKE vs FAKE but add that guys wanting to fuck...accept it.

So okay the chicks are more careful, suspicious about getting into a relationship.(mood killers if anything...lmao)
Guys being creative can get fake ID ...FB accounts.....at what point does a sucker(girl) stop taking the punishment....or Einsteins theory ..the meaning of insanity is repeating the same mistake over and over and getting the same result.

Speculation is chicks are getting easier ....to fuck and amateur p4p (make tinder dates worth while for them)...because the beta's and internet noise have made relationships unlikely to happen.... why do women want a man for a relationship....money and security.....soooo would at some point a woman just go for the money?

[scrambled]

(06-14-2017 09:26 PM)Sebastiana Wrote:  

Guys talk about how ugly American women are these days here. (they have wrinkles after age 25, they are fat, they walk around in flip flops, they don't take care of themselves etc) How about paying attention to men you see daily basis? Will you look at them as dating material if you were a woman?
But these guys have the same desire as tall, ripped, good looking college boys. Where do they go to satisfy their desire? hit up the hipster bar or mall to hit on a cute chick? LOL

[jselysianeagle]

What I'm seeing is that it's gotten a lot easier for me to make that initial approach and get numbers, but getting those to convert to actual meets, and getting those to close, has gotten harder.

In years prior to the rise of Tinder and OLD in general etc., connecting with a girl and making her laugh, holding a convo for 30 mins or so (be it through daygame or nightgame) was, from her perspective at least, much more of a "stand out" occurrence. She was more likely to remember you, and if you got her number, you stood a solid chance of at least seeing her again. Now? I get numbers aplenty here in NYC, at cafes, parks, through nightgame etc. but I'm seeing a massive uptick in the flake/non-responsiveness rate. I can spend upwards of 45 mins making an impression on a girl, only to have her not even respond to my very first text, or text once or twice and fade away forever. I can't recall shit like this happening to me 5-6 yrs ago.

The other thing that seems to have changed is that in the past, if a girl said "yes" to coming to your place or inviting you over, it was guaranteed sex. These days I'm finding an increase in LMR - this year in the past few months alone I've had at least 4-5 girls come back to mine, fool around, then bail and never see/hear from them again. Weird shit.

So personally, I'm ambivalent about the whole situation.

[Robert Plant]

jselysianeagle: Are you meeting older women than you used to? This could have something to do with what you are talking about.