[Off The Reservation]

(06-01-2017 11:43 AM)Know1234 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:59 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

Tough decision.

If her mom and other female relatives have aged well then I say it is worth considering.

Right now though on what you said my vote is to move on.

You will have to go with your gut in the end though.

The one defining trait to look at is in you know beyond doubt she is a ride or die bitch for you and has your best interests at heart. If that falters even slightly the answer should be no.

We haven't faced any serious challenges in our relationship up until this point so it would be hard to judge if she really is a ride or die chick. My gut tells me that she is.

She is surrounded by several long lasting marriages in her church. Also we have had several serious conversations where she speaks highly of women who don't divorce their husbands when things get tough. There is a lady at her church who stuck by her husbands side when he became mentally ill and lost his job etc.

The fact that she looks up to such women and is surrounded by them makes me think that she would stay if things went south with me down the line.

This could be the single most self-delusional statement on all of RVF. You are asking people to believe that this girl is of good character because someone in her church stuck by a husband with issues. Since when was character an automatically community issue rather than an individual? Does she have any virtues of her own or just tells you stories from her surroundings to keep you drinking the koolaid?

By default, even if you don't mean it:

[Know1234]

(06-01-2017 01:55 PM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  

(06-01-2017 11:43 AM)Know1234 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:59 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

Tough decision.

If her mom and other female relatives have aged well then I say it is worth considering.

Right now though on what you said my vote is to move on.

You will have to go with your gut in the end though.

The one defining trait to look at is in you know beyond doubt she is a ride or die bitch for you and has your best interests at heart. If that falters even slightly the answer should be no.

We haven't faced any serious challenges in our relationship up until this point so it would be hard to judge if she really is a ride or die chick. My gut tells me that she is.

She is surrounded by several long lasting marriages in her church. Also we have had several serious conversations where she speaks highly of women who don't divorce their husbands when things get tough. There is a lady at her church who stuck by her husbands side when he became mentally ill and lost his job etc.

The fact that she looks up to such women and is surrounded by them makes me think that she would stay if things went south with me down the line.

This could be the single most self-delusional statement on all of RVF. You are asking people to believe that this girl is of good character because someone in her church stuck by a husband with issues. Since when was character an automatically community issue rather than an individual? Does she have any virtues of her own or just tells you stories from her surroundings to keep you drinking the koolaid?

By default, even if you don't mean it:

I see your point. I was just trying to show that she is surrounded by many positive role models. I've been to her church and have met some of those people.

But you are right - I can't completely judge a man / woman by their community. It does make a difference in attitude in my opinion.

Unfortunately, the only real test is seeing how she would act if shit went south in a real life situation. Which has not happened in the 2 years we spent together.

Her warmth and caring attitude (when I got sick etc.) is why I think she has potential.

[Jetset]

(06-01-2017 01:55 PM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  

This could be the single most self-delusional statement on all of RVF. You are asking people to believe that this girl is of good character because someone in her church stuck by a husband with issues. Since when was character an automatically community issue rather than an individual? Does she have any virtues of her own or just tells you stories from her surroundings to keep you drinking the koolaid?

By default, even if you don't mean it:

True.

The OP should strongly consider that when someone says they hate thieves, it's often because they're trying to distract you from the fact that deep down, they want to steal.

[Know1234]

(06-01-2017 01:05 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

This isn't tough to me at all.

There are some really great questions posed by RVF members here.

You're WAY too young to be thinking about marriage.

YOU always come first, everyone else secondary. If you can't take care of yourself, you can't take care of others.

You need to focus on yourself, get your mind/money/life right.

I highly advise against marrying this woman.

A few things to remind you that stuck out to me as well:

You haven't fucked her yet, 2 years and no sex with her, you have no idea how she'll be in bed.

You've told her you'll be getting side action, but completely deny that you do (as has been said, you'll pay for this later).

If you marry this chick, you'll probably regret it and be unhappy, with that will come more cheating/and or divorce, which will become a shit show.

Never ever underestimate the ability of a woman making your life a living hell, no matter how submissive and sweet she is.

Thanks for the response.

Just to be clear - I already told her that there is no way I am getting married now. She is asking for commitment to marry her in 2-3 years. Ideally, she wants to be married now but is willing to work with my timeline.

From what I have seen so far, she has a high sex drive but grew up in the church and is religious to the point of maintaining her virginity up until now.

Are you suggesting that she will be resentful in the future because I told her that I'll be getting side action during the beginning of our relationship?

Also thanks for sharing so much of your life insights on the forum, Kaotic - it's a great resource for young guys like myself.

[kaotic]

Yes, she will eventually get resentful, all women are like that.

You literally are giving her ammo to the gun she will use at you one point.

If you cheat, cheat discreetly, never give anyone information that you do so.


I get that she is religious but marrying a virgin is rolling the dice, she might have a high sex drive, but can always pull the, "I don't do that anymore" or "I'm not like that" card all the time.

[Teflon1]

Way too young to be thinking about marriage--focus on your career and yourself

[BassPlayaYo]

You're being played by women's church/virginity game. It's sad that you can't see it, I could see if she was 18. High sex drive or not, she's good at not giving the pussy up, she's a controlling mess. I know you think you hit the lottery but you are mistaken.

[Off The Reservation]

(06-01-2017 02:05 PM)Know1234 Wrote:  

(06-01-2017 01:55 PM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  

(06-01-2017 11:43 AM)Know1234 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:59 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

Tough decision.

If her mom and other female relatives have aged well then I say it is worth considering.

Right now though on what you said my vote is to move on.

You will have to go with your gut in the end though.

The one defining trait to look at is in you know beyond doubt she is a ride or die bitch for you and has your best interests at heart. If that falters even slightly the answer should be no.

We haven't faced any serious challenges in our relationship up until this point so it would be hard to judge if she really is a ride or die chick. My gut tells me that she is.

She is surrounded by several long lasting marriages in her church. Also we have had several serious conversations where she speaks highly of women who don't divorce their husbands when things get tough. There is a lady at her church who stuck by her husbands side when he became mentally ill and lost his job etc.

The fact that she looks up to such women and is surrounded by them makes me think that she would stay if things went south with me down the line.

This could be the single most self-delusional statement on all of RVF. You are asking people to believe that this girl is of good character because someone in her church stuck by a husband with issues. Since when was character an automatically community issue rather than an individual? Does she have any virtues of her own or just tells you stories from her surroundings to keep you drinking the koolaid?

By default, even if you don't mean it:

I see your point. I was just trying to show that she is surrounded by many positive role models. I've been to her church and have met some of those people.

But you are right - I can't completely judge a man / woman by their community. It does make a difference in attitude in my opinion.

Unfortunately, the only real test is seeing how she would act if shit went south in a real life situation. Which has not happened in the 2 years we spent together.

Her warmth and caring attitude (when I got sick etc.) is why I think she has potential.

I see that you are open to hearing certain points of view (reasoning). Good.

Go back and re read your posts and all the replies: she she she she she she she this and that.

What about you? I bet you are a decent looking nice guy. For her, are you are a nice compliant handbag that she rewards with sympathy when you are sick? Is this all there is? Is this all you want? I also am willing to bet she has questioned your character over some minor issues in some way in the past to keep you striving (to try to rise to her virginal churchy purity level).

What about you? I don't hear you saying WOW I smile when I am with her. We have so much in common and so much fun and so much sex. We can't keep our hands off each other. We get along great. There is no doubt when we talk about future plans. It is so natural and feels like the right thing. I hear you saying something very different about the virgin, maybe the opposite. BTW If she can go years without sex in her 20s whomever marries her might get laid every few weeks or months inside the marriage, soon to be never.

Somewhere in your post you worry you cannot replace her. We call that oneitis here. Oneitis is sometimes a symptom of a larger psycho-epistemological issue of what you believe is possible for your life.

Good luck.

[Know1234]

(06-01-2017 02:58 PM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  

(06-01-2017 02:05 PM)Know1234 Wrote:  

(06-01-2017 01:55 PM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  

(06-01-2017 11:43 AM)Know1234 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:59 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

Tough decision.

If her mom and other female relatives have aged well then I say it is worth considering.

Right now though on what you said my vote is to move on.

You will have to go with your gut in the end though.

The one defining trait to look at is in you know beyond doubt she is a ride or die bitch for you and has your best interests at heart. If that falters even slightly the answer should be no.

We haven't faced any serious challenges in our relationship up until this point so it would be hard to judge if she really is a ride or die chick. My gut tells me that she is.

She is surrounded by several long lasting marriages in her church. Also we have had several serious conversations where she speaks highly of women who don't divorce their husbands when things get tough. There is a lady at her church who stuck by her husbands side when he became mentally ill and lost his job etc.

The fact that she looks up to such women and is surrounded by them makes me think that she would stay if things went south with me down the line.

This could be the single most self-delusional statement on all of RVF. You are asking people to believe that this girl is of good character because someone in her church stuck by a husband with issues. Since when was character an automatically community issue rather than an individual? Does she have any virtues of her own or just tells you stories from her surroundings to keep you drinking the koolaid?

By default, even if you don't mean it:

I see your point. I was just trying to show that she is surrounded by many positive role models. I've been to her church and have met some of those people.

But you are right - I can't completely judge a man / woman by their community. It does make a difference in attitude in my opinion.

Unfortunately, the only real test is seeing how she would act if shit went south in a real life situation. Which has not happened in the 2 years we spent together.

Her warmth and caring attitude (when I got sick etc.) is why I think she has potential.

I see that you are open to hearing certain points of view (reasoning). Good.

Go back and re read your posts and all the replies: she she she she she she she this and that.

What about you? I bet you are a decent looking nice guy. For her, are you are a nice compliant handbag that she rewards with sympathy when you are sick? Is this all there is? Is this all you want? I also am willing to bet she has questioned your character over some minor issues in some way in the past to keep you striving (to try to rise to her virginal churchy purity level).

What about you? I don't hear you saying WOW I smile when I am with her. We have so much in common and so much fun and so much sex. We can't keep our hands off each other. We get along great. There is no doubt when we talk about future plans. It is so natural and feels like the right thing. I hear you saying something very different about the virgin, maybe the opposite. BTW If she can go years without sex in her 20s whomever marries her might get laid every few weeks or months inside the marriage, soon to be never.

Somewhere in your post you worry you cannot replace her. We call that oneitis here. Oneitis is sometimes a symptom of a larger psycho-epistemological issue of what you believe is possible for your life.

Good luck.

thanks for taking the time to respond. Agreed with your oneitis diagnosis - although, it is because of the many qualities that I saw in her that I never saw in most of the women around me. Still doesn't excuse pedestalizing any woman.

I haven't been compliant during the relationship - she was always willing to follow my lead as long as it wasn't anything against her fundamental beliefs.

I see your point regarding sex as we never actually consummated the relationship. However, we did get along well - very few arguments and our personalities complimented each other. But then again there were never any major issues to argue about which would not be the case when you are married to someone.

[Know1234]

(06-01-2017 09:48 AM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  

Different people see different red flags in what they observe based on observe. While you do provide us a list of red flags, but the ones I (from sitting here in my what the hell do i know chair) see are not on your red flag list but elsewhere in your post:

1. Your liberal use of adjectives about this girl. She is a walking list of positive adjectives pretty to you, conservative, submissive and sweet, and I am sure you have a dozen more if you were challenged about her. I am not saying this will happen to you, but when I was 23 I married a cute little walking list of adjectives and in 9 years I found my 20s were gone and that list of adjectives had changed magically to another list mostly of opposite words. Bitchy, abusive, argumentative, obstinate, fat, dry. When people don't have the capacity to see and judge character you replace an accurate evaluation with adjectives. It's a dangerous and evasive way to start, and always a red flag for me when a guy starts off his description of a girl with such a list. Just look through here and you will see the posts from the guys with the absolute worst situations and have their heads buried in the sand always start like this.

2. She wants to get married in 2-3 years. What a load of bullshit. A girl who wants to get married should want to do so somewhere between NOW and the next reasonable wedding season or date. 2-3 years down the road (for a 25 year old virgin) is forever and ever from now and may never happen. It says nothing but keeping options open but never getting to the point.

3. This religion thing. Decide what you want and how you want your kids raised. I don't think you are telling us the whole story. I smell a culty branch of xyz religion. Go investigate this church of hers, because if you engage her to marry you are marring this church too.

4. At 24 with no life experience she is willing to brush off your going out with other women? You will pay for this later.

So there are the first few big red flags that some anonymous guy on the internet sees in your writing, and none of them are in your red flag list.

You had nothing to break up with because you never had her (sex). You never made her your woman. You made other women your playthings (cool) while pedestalizing the virgin. This is a construct in your heads. Your "questions" aren't the right ones because not one of them start with "What do I want out of life?"

Great feedback here, thanks. Most of this I never considered.

1. Your adjectives point makes sense to me. I feel that unless you have seen a person go through a couple of difficult life situations it is very hard to understand their character and adjectives is all you are left with. I've only seen her when things are ok. She is a naturally happy girl and is usually humming a tune.

You said you married at 23 years old - was your then-wife religious and conservative? Not sure if you already talked about your marriage in another thread...

2. She wants to get married now. But is willing to wait 2-3 years to accommodate my timeline if I commit to her and get engaged now.

3. Church is mostly middle class people with jobs etc - not culty.

4. I understand this point as others also pointed it out.

[Know1234]

(06-01-2017 10:14 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Don't do it.

I don't see any red flags with her.

Your far too young and need to experience life (other women).

I know many guys will disagree with me, but you don't find many girls like your girlfriend these days. Chances are when you are 34/35 you will not find a virgin, unless you look far and wide.

Thanks. This is why I am having a bit of back & forth with myself on this issue.

From your point of view, even if a young man meets a woman without any significant red flags it is better to wait until getting more experience?

[Know1234]

(06-01-2017 12:57 PM)Jean Valjean Wrote:  

(06-01-2017 12:11 PM)Know1234 Wrote:  

Thank you, that's a very insightful comment.

Regarding me getting my "fill of the world" - I do feel I'm fairly inexperienced when it comes to travel, lifestyle and major life decisions.

As I had mentioned, I would not have even considered marriage before 30 - but I find her to be very different from the vast majority of women I see & hear around me and in the media.

My indecisiveness stems from letting her go and then never finding someone of the same caliber.

It is also my first serious relationship / break up.

This is why "AWALT," "special snowflakes," and "one-itis" get mentioned so much in the manosphere. Women cultivate an illusion of being different than other girls, and they listen to you talk about what you want in a girl and try to present themselves as being that girl. Even guys who have fallen for it once have to be on their guard against falling for it again, because it can be really tempting to fill in the gaps of what you don't know about her with fantasy and promises.

A better woman can always be found. On the other hand, those girls who have some unusually good traits usually also have some unusually bad traits too.

You mention she's not on social media, which is one major plus. Can she cook?

The median age of Indian women is 28.3. When she's at the age at which she has in mind marrying you, there will be millions of girls 10 years younger than her coming on the market. Although Travesty raises a good point about how you can take your cue from looking at how her mother has aged.

Yeah she is a decent cook & baker - does make a lot of things from scratch. Cooks dinner for her family fairly often.

Her mother still has decent skin and is still fairly skinny at about 60 and after 6 kids.

To your point about Indian women's age - I haven't had much exposure to Indian women. I am more attracted to Black and Asian women.

Her background is Black Jamaican.

[rudebwoy]

(06-01-2017 04:10 PM)Know1234 Wrote:  

(06-01-2017 10:14 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Don't do it.

I don't see any red flags with her.

Your far too young and need to experience life (other women).

I know many guys will disagree with me, but you don't find many girls like your girlfriend these days. Chances are when you are 34/35 you will not find a virgin, unless you look far and wide.

Thanks. This is why I am having a bit of back & forth with myself on this issue.

From your point of view, even if a young man meets a woman without any significant red flags it is better to wait until getting more experience?

To be honest it isn't a easy answer.

She sounds like a good girl and be warned if you leave her the next guy may lock her down. I am sure the 40 year old guy would love to get back in there with her.

How many girls do you meet like her in your day to day life? I see you live in Canada, the only girls I see like that here are religious girls and that isn't for me.

If her mother looks good at 60, that is a huge bonus. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I don't see many indian girls or white girls looking good pass age 35.

Does she have older sisters? lol

[Repo]

How would you rate her on a 1-10?

Asking for a friend. . .

[Know1234]

(06-01-2017 06:13 PM)Repo Wrote:  

How would you rate her on a 1-10?

Asking for a friend. . .

Probably a 6-7 / 10...not a stunner but cute. Does get compliments from strangers etc

[Know1234]

(06-01-2017 05:58 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

(06-01-2017 04:10 PM)Know1234 Wrote:  

(06-01-2017 10:14 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Don't do it.

I don't see any red flags with her.

Your far too young and need to experience life (other women).

I know many guys will disagree with me, but you don't find many girls like your girlfriend these days. Chances are when you are 34/35 you will not find a virgin, unless you look far and wide.

Thanks. This is why I am having a bit of back & forth with myself on this issue.

From your point of view, even if a young man meets a woman without any significant red flags it is better to wait until getting more experience?

To be honest it isn't a easy answer.

She sounds like a good girl and be warned if you leave her the next guy may lock her down. I am sure the 40 year old guy would love to get back in there with her.

How many girls do you meet like her in your day to day life? I see you live in Canada, the only girls I see like that here are religious girls and that isn't for me.

If her mother looks good at 60, that is a huge bonus. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I don't see many indian girls or white girls looking good pass age 35.

Does she have older sisters? lol

Very few girls that I've met in my day to day are similar...in fact, I can't remember the last non-religious girl who fit the bill.

I find that if Black women are not obese they retain most of their look into their older age especially since their skin doesn't show wrinkles etc as much

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(06-01-2017 01:05 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

This isn't tough to me at all.

There are some really great questions posed by RVF members here.

You're WAY too young to be thinking about marriage.

YOU always come first, everyone else secondary. If you can't take care of yourself, you can't take care of others.

You need to focus on yourself, get your mind/money/life right.

I highly advise against marrying this woman.

A few things to remind you that stuck out to me as well:

You haven't fucked her yet, 2 years and no sex with her, you have no idea how she'll be in bed.

You've told her you'll be getting side action, but completely deny that you do (as has been said, you'll pay for this later).

If you marry this chick, you'll probably regret it and be unhappy, with that will come more cheating/and or divorce, which will become a shit show.

Never ever underestimate the ability of a woman making your life a living hell, no matter how submissive and sweet she is.

After reading through your entire post in detail I can say this - the most major Red Flags:

+ she is a virgin in Jamaica? WTF?
+ she was engaged to a 40-something Muslim man I am guessing - a Hindu or Buddhist or even a different Christian would not want her to convert unless he is a Mormon
+ She is a late-stage "virgin" who plans to maybe stay a virgin for another 2-3 years?
+ I also see plenty of seemingly Red Pill statements that she makes, but this sounds too good to be true - she is too off in her message

Essentially I think that she is too unbalanced and you are too young to understand this.

That is an example of best possible pick of a virgin:

+ rural and humble upbringing in Brazil, but identical race
+ identical religion Mormon
+ smart girl and has no desire to ride the carousel
+ happy to marry a Beta-ish man and move to the US
+ 21yo - met her when she was 19yo, could not wait to get married and fuck ASAP
+ couple is still together after years and happy, expecting children

The husband was a Mormon virgin as well, but that is frankly not necessary for men - it is better for women, but not for men.

Still - that is the best option you can look forward to.

Another good example:

+ both Christians, both virgins, but
+ despite different races it works due to her being shy, introverted, can hardly wait to fuck her new husband, balanced and happy girl
+ they expect their second child already while being younger than your girl

I put these examples up, because the show is less scripted than most and has some Red Pill truths in it. You can compare those two unions with your girl and how that will look like - I doubt it will be well.

I agree with many other posters that while it is worthy of consideration, that there are a few Red flags that are crimson red - don't do it (long engagement period while she being older than you and 25/26, dating likely Muslim man, no sex for you not even BJ while you brought her to orgasm etc.). Also how do you even know that she is a virgin? Did you inspect her in detail?

[Know1234]

(06-02-2017 03:18 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(06-01-2017 01:05 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

This isn't tough to me at all.

There are some really great questions posed by RVF members here.

You're WAY too young to be thinking about marriage.

YOU always come first, everyone else secondary. If you can't take care of yourself, you can't take care of others.

You need to focus on yourself, get your mind/money/life right.

I highly advise against marrying this woman.

A few things to remind you that stuck out to me as well:

You haven't fucked her yet, 2 years and no sex with her, you have no idea how she'll be in bed.

You've told her you'll be getting side action, but completely deny that you do (as has been said, you'll pay for this later).

If you marry this chick, you'll probably regret it and be unhappy, with that will come more cheating/and or divorce, which will become a shit show.

Never ever underestimate the ability of a woman making your life a living hell, no matter how submissive and sweet she is.

After reading through your entire post in detail I can say this - the most major Red Flags:

+ she is a virgin in Jamaica? WTF?
+ she was engaged to a 40-something Muslim man I am guessing - a Hindu or Buddhist or even a different Christian would not want her to convert unless he is a Mormon
+ She is a late-stage "virgin" who plans to maybe stay a virgin for another 2-3 years?
+ I also see plenty of seemingly Red Pill statements that she makes, but this sounds too good to be true - she is too off in her message

Essentially I think that she is too unbalanced and you are too young to understand this.

That is an example of best possible pick of a virgin:

+ rural and humble upbringing in Brazil, but identical race
+ identical religion Mormon
+ smart girl and has no desire to ride the carousel
+ happy to marry a Beta-ish man and move to the US
+ 21yo - met her when she was 19yo, could not wait to get married and fuck ASAP
+ couple is still together after years and happy, expecting children

The husband was a Mormon virgin as well, but that is frankly not necessary for men - it is better for women, but not for men.

Still - that is the best option you can look forward to.

Another good example:

+ both Christians, both virgins, but
+ despite different races it works due to her being shy, introverted, can hardly wait to fuck her new husband, balanced and happy girl
+ they expect their second child already while being younger than your girl

I put these examples up, because the show is less scripted than most and has some Red Pill truths in it. You can compare those two unions with your girl and how that will look like - I doubt it will be well.

I agree with many other posters that while it is worthy of consideration, that there are a few Red flags that are crimson red - don't do it (long engagement period while she being older than you and 25/26, dating likely Muslim man, no sex for you not even BJ while you brought her to orgasm etc.). Also how do you even know that she is a virgin? Did you inspect her in detail?

Thanks for taking the time to go through the details in my post and your feedback.

A few clarifications:

- She doesn't / never has lived in Jamaica. Her family background is Jamaican. Mine is East Indian. We both live in and grew up in Toronto.
- She was engaged to a 40-something Jewish man who wanted her to convert which was a deal breaker for her.
- Ideally she wants to be married now but understands that I don't want to at this age and is willing to wait another 2-3 years if I commit to her now.
- The Red Pill statements she makes are a direct result of being raised in the Church / listening to Christian shows etc.

To answer your last two questions, no I can not confirm that she is a virgin because I never inspected her in detail. Her behavior (never living away from home / family, only drinking wine occasionally, not going out to bars / clubs, strong religious belief, no social media presence, 1 other previous partner who she was engaged to and our many conversations over a 2 year period) says that there is a high chance of her being a virgin. Although, I will admit that I can not know that for sure.

You mentioned race a couple of times while commenting on the couples in the 2 videos. What are your thoughts on interracial marriages? I'm trying to understand if our different racial backgrounds can be an issue down the line. Although, I feel that me not being a Christian and her being a devout Christian might be a bigger issue...

With regards to the age difference she is a year older than I am. Ideally, I agree with the concept of taking a wife that is around 5 years or so younger.
The way that I approached the age question in this relationship was that she is naturally slim (as are her sisters and mother) and watches what she eats (no sugar, gluten etc) and is willing to do the work to stay in shape. With these characteristics in mind, I figured that she will age well and a year age gap in the wrong direction would not matter too much. Is this flawed reasoning on my part? Am I missing something?

Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts on this thread - discussing these questions with more experienced men is helping me put together a more complete picture than just thinking this over by myself.

[Truth Tiger]

Thanks for sharing your question and experiences. What I'm reading is that you are focusing a lot on this woman's wants and desires but I'm not hearing anything about your goals for your life. Many red flags were raised by very experienced posters.

I was engaged in my early 20s to a girl who probably was less pure than your girlfriend seems to be, but we had sex and were exclusive. She wanted to get married but turned out she really didn't want kids. I did (at the time) and that turned out to be a deal breaker, mostly for me. More importantly, I realized a couple years later that I was investing 50-70% of my mental and emotional energy in this relationship, plus time and money. I was graduating university and starting a job but really didn't know what I was passionate about creating in the world. I was raised Catholic but couldn't accept party line on God, Jesus, etc. I had to find out on my own. I couldn't do any of this with a woman so tightly bound to me - or rather, me so tightly bound to 'needing' her.

I doesn't sound to me like you have strong masculine role models, and that's what this forum is good for at least in the virtual sense. But you need to find your mission, your passion, your purpose, and do that without another person's demands influencing you. Not to say she is evil, but women are biologically driven to manipulate men because they lack the drive and ambition to create their own destiny. You need to really get to a place where you know who you are as a man first and foremost, then decide how much to let a woman into your life. This all sounds like your goal to find a virgin which is noble but a third or fourth priority compared to really developing into a Real Man, the best man YOU can really be. You won't ever find that out with some woman putting time and commitment demands on you. You need to read Esther Vilar's "The Manipulated Man", free PDF available online.

Your thread title says it all - LTR wants commitment for marriage.

What, my brother, do YOU want from YOUR life? Why were you born into this amazing crazy inspiring possibility-rich planet? Your human life is a tremendous gift and as a man you are someone who can create incredible things from his mind, heart, and personal connection to God / Spirit / Highest Self. NO ONE else can tell you how to live as a man; that is for you to decide but you must guard yourself so carefully against those who would control, manipulate, and coerce you into fulfilling THEIR needs over your own.

No woman will ever give a fuck about YOUR life as a man even 10% as much as you do. Your mother might care a little more than that but she will still deep down be thinking / feeling "I want my son to be a credit to me, make me look and feel good and proud" and not focused on your development and fulfillment as a man.

I think many of us have been where you are. Please rub one out (or four or five) if you need to so you don't have a lust / hormone-induced fog clouding your mind and take a weekend away from contact with her and EVERY woman to discover yourself. Not just one weekend but many. Take a drive, go for a solo hike, be in nature and bring a note pad and pen, or even a folder over piece of paper to write notes on. Turn your cell phone off! Just be with yourself. There is a man inside that is blossoming and growing and your must nurture that seedling, that tender sprout that wants to grow into a great redwood tree. We are the grove that can help nurture you and your safely and understanding. I didn't have this when I was in my 20s (early 40s now) but I had a sense of mission and purpose that was compelling me, plus could see unhappy people around (most of whom were married) so I knew I had to get to know myself before committing my life to a woman.

I would say let this woman go and focus on yourself. Find your campaign as Roosh blogged about, find your purpose - I link to a great book "Is Your Genius At Work?" that helped me discover mine, and spend more time as a solitary man. You need it. I also recommend Rainer Maria Rilke's "Letters to a Young Poet" which contains so much simple wisdom as he endeavors to live truly and honestly. The letter #4 also addresses marriage, though all are very worth reading and contemplating:

Main list: http://carrothers.com/rilke_main.htm

Letter #4: http://carrothers.com/rilke4.htm

It's not about age only, but you are - from what I'm sensing - more prioritized on her qualities than yours as a man. Trust me, you will find better women who will respect you for having deeper clarity and purpose than you do now. I met a woman who was 20 when I was 35 and she was the most beautiful, tender, and devoted girl I've ever known. I treasured her, loved her feminine energy and showed her tenderness and also my passion for life and her. She was not a unicorn per se (we are not together right now) but she respected my knowing of myself and wanted to join the adventure as long as she could. The time we shared was a great motivation to me to continue improving and growing and I feel now years later I am a better man all around.

By waiting and deepening in your knowing of who you are and becoming your best self, you will have a more wise perspective about women, dating, marriage, life - if you wait. Your perspective even a year or two about all this happening now will be wiser!

Keep in mind that anyone - ANYONE! - PRESSURING you for commitment wants to saddle to your horse and take advantage of you. Commitment being DEMANDED is the #1 and most critical red flag. Guard against those who would turn you into their plough horse, their mule!

As others have said with fewer words, don't do it!

Watch videos by MGTOW is freedom, just for perspective. John knows about marriage and knows men need to know themselves. You need to live much more life and learn who you are before you even consider a legal and emotional commitment so serious as marriage, and only when you are fully aware of the dangers and ready to deal with them.

[Rawmeo]

She looks like marriage material, but you have still a lot to experience. Is she fine with a relationship where you have a mistress with an official "don't ask, don't tell" policy? If so, I'd say let's do it. Otherwise, if she strictly wants a monogamous relationship, it's a tough choice - as a virgin, she's entitled to ask for it, but since you're still young, you might be missing on a lot of things. I'd say take your time.

Start slowly exploring whether she'd be fine with you having a side chick. Make her understand that a girl's value & beauty dimnishes over time, and that you'll be increasing in value and in need of adventure. If done in the proper frame, I'm pretty sure it can be done.

Otherwise, think carefully, but I'd tend more on the "wait a bit" side since you still have a lot to live.

[This Is Trouble]

I'll repeat what I said in this thread: thread-63022.html

"I've found more and more often throughout the years that the girls who are virgins past 18, maybe 20, just wear it as badges of honor and are more often than not attention whores, as mentioned several times above.

They flaunt that card around everyone and claim innocence while basking in the attention it gives them.

The girl who brags about her virginity is promiscuous by nature. A non-promiscuous girl won't even discuss her sex life in much detail apart from her partner or close friends.

I think in today's world you have a very real issue of FOMO with a virgin girl. There is too much slut empowerment and social media out there. Better to be the first and best lover among the first few she's had."

[Off The Reservation]

More and more detail keeps coming out. So you mean to tell me that from age xx to age 25 as this hot young thing was on the scene in Toronto (and obviously interested in older guys) that at NO POINT EVER she ran into any guys with any game, never got hot for some young or old stud, never met the Toronto RFV crew, and maintained her virginity just because the "story" jives for you? You have head that high school sex, premarital sex, and her first lesbian experience don't count and she can still call herself a virgin right? I originally though we were talking about some population 500 town like Ft Liard where her every move has been monitored but Toronto?

Can someone who is good with computer graphics make a Venn Diagram. This could be fun.

Odds of finding a 25 year old virgin who grew up in Toronto.
Odds of finding a black or Jamaican girl who is a virgin past 18.
Odds that she tells OP the truth and the whole truth.

Odds OP has not identified all the red flags.
Odds OP is being played because he can't identify what he really wants in life (yet).
Odds OP is a troll.

[rudebwoy]

^You have never been to Toronto, I take it.

[Babablacksheep]

Man i am from an Indian Origin and i understand your situation.

Your history with her- Looks like a good old days love story. ItS hard to find these days.

Red flags- These all do not look so big to me. The fact that she did not change her religion to please some narrow minded guy is a positive sign about her integrity and loyalty.

No, you will not selling yourself short. Look around. Many successful entrepreneurs and creative people met their partners early and the stability of a great relationship help them propel themselves towards excellence.

Few years back when i was your age, i use to think the same but after meeting numerous liberated ( modern, irresponsible, drama queens) western women for flings and various crazy experiences, i can appreciate being with my current gf more and more. She is older than me (6 yrs), does not drink and is great at being a housewife.

Chasing pussy led to me not achieving the potential i could have, but in retrospect it was a lesson for me and something i am able to share with younger ones like you.

This forum might not be the best place to seek advice. There are bigger goals in life than putting your d** into some random chick you met at a bar who would be with your neighbour next day..

[Travesty]

(06-02-2017 09:33 AM)Truth Tiger Wrote:  

...

That was a beautiful post.

That said how close are you in your early 40's to settling down with a wife and having kids?

I would argue you would want to have your last kid by the time you are 45 or so. My cousin has a large age gap between him and his father. He is about to have his first born as his father could die any day. His dad was around 45 when he had him. I think that is as about as big as a gap as you'd want so you would at least have a shot at seeing all your grandchildren.