[IstillLoveVistaBaby]

I'm putting some money down that this has already been talked about profusely, but this is more of a succinct thread. Who here (poll) has firm belief that the American Economy will collapse, including the fiat system that supports the federal government? I mean in the point where all the people who don't seem to give a shit collecting money from the government will no longer be getting checks, the good and the bad: retired federal employees, veterans, union workers (cops and firefighters, teachers, etc) disabled federal/veterans, as well as the EBT WIC and LINK people (the welfare leeches).

Some people just have this flippant attitude that if the crash happens that their government pension or union check will be untouchable so they don't seem to give a shit about economic politics.

My point is that on all levels, things are affected, all money is once the fragile foundations finally cave in. All the cash you have saved up in an electronic bank account won't be worth shit.

So, will it happen? Or will the debt just keep rising until infinity?

[Paracelsus]

It must - eventually. What is keeping the "eventually" from coming about is that there isn't a currency anywhere near as trusted as the US dollar at the moment, and certainly none in enough volume to function as a reserve currency for the planet. That, and the fact that currency markets trade off fear and greed as much as stock markets do, and there hasn't been an event to scare people out of holding US dollars. There hasn't been an event big enough to make people actually ask the question whether the US is going to be able to pay off its debts. As with a bank, it is the perception of weakness in a fiat currency that destroys it, not the weakness itself.

[DarkTriad]

I've often wondered the same thing. Could get really ugly real quick. I'm amazed they've piled up the Jenga as long as they have, what is the exact limit? We've got the unique ability to pay or debt in our own money, so the worst case scenario is kind of an "everyone is reset at zero" but it really does screw gov't pensioners. Retired Detroit city workers are already "living the dream".

[The Beast1]

Short answer, no.

First and foremost, even without the reserve currency status of the dollar America is largely self sufficient. It was and can again easily make everything regionally. Sure imported goods will be mightily expensive, but the sheer size of America means someone will start remaking those expensive goods back stateside. Tis the magic of capitalism.

A complete collapse will never come. Maybe a bad economic depression where a lot of people on fixed income (pensioners, retirees, welfare/ food stamp recipients) get scalped. If the economy collapses, you can definitely look forward to an impending police state descending to regain order and control. Did the stock crash of 1929 cause utter anarchy?

Unlike Venezuela, we can supply our entire population with food which in all honesty is more important than oil (which we also have a lot of).

In short, you'd be better of continuing with business as usual. Invest in stocks, buy property, have a small on site collection of SMALL gold, silver, and copper coins (easier to trade for goods in a SHTF situation than a ingot), own guns, stock pile some emergency supplies, and join a good community that can help you keep your family on the straight and narrow.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(05-25-2017 12:17 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Short answer, no.

First and foremost, even without the reserve currency status of the dollar America is largely self sufficient. It was and can again easily make everything regionally. Sure imported goods will be mightily expensive, but the sheer size of America means someone will start remaking those expensive goods back stateside. Tis the magic of capitalism.

A complete collapse will never come. Maybe a bad economic depression where a lot of people on fixed income (pensioners, retirees, welfare/ food stamp recipients) get scalped. If the economy collapses, you can definitely look forward to an impending police state descending to regain order and control. Did the stock crash of 1929 cause utter anarchy?

Unlike Venezuela, we can supply our entire population with food which in all honesty is more important than oil (which we also have a lot of).

In short, you'd be better of continuing with business as usual. Invest in stocks, buy property, have a small on site collection of SMALL gold, silver, and copper coins (easier to trade for goods in a SHTF situation than a ingot), own guns, stock pile some emergency supplies, and join a good community that can help you keep your family on the straight and narrow.

I agree. Collapse has many faces. The communist countries collapsed too, but after a period of hardship, things picked up again. So long as a country does not descend into Venezuela/North Korea anarchy and dictatorship or into an Islamic Caliphate or even republic, then everything can be salvaged.

[IstillLoveVistaBaby]

Right, but what about the fictitious government currently in power in the US? All the fake currency, I mean with the debt bubble reaching its maximum parameters its hard to tell if anyone will ever recover. The politicians and their dalliances with the (((special interests))) will keep America from being prosperous, as in making our own food, having our own currency debt free, and using our own oil supply to greatly reduce the price. Factories may never reopen to fix the infrastructure and build glorious new skylines. When was the last time a new city was made?

In fact, when was the last time we were in economic surplus? That word seems to have gone extinct.

[The Beast1]

(05-25-2017 01:38 PM)IstillLoveVistaBaby Wrote:  

Right, but what about the fictitious government currently in power in the US? All the fake currency, I mean with the debt bubble reaching its maximum parameters its hard to tell if anyone will ever recover. The politicians and their dalliances with the (((special interests))) will keep America from being prosperous, as in making our own food, having our own currency debt free, and using our own oil supply to greatly reduce the price. Factories may never reopen to fix the infrastructure and build glorious new skylines. When was the last time a new city was made?

In fact, when was the last time we were in economic surplus? That word seems to have gone extinct.

I'm willing to bet that in the not so distant future we may witness the collapse of the democratic party and an extreme shunning of RINOs. If the DNC collapses from the Seth Rich cases and other malfeasance that was brewing beneath the surface, the party constituents will rush to the handful of tiny political parties ushering in a new generation of multi-party rule for this country. Such an event would cripple corporations ability to lobby both sides of the aisle since multiple parties mean more wheels you need to grease. We live in interesting times and it's only a matter of time before the DNC's crimes come to light.

With that said: Ever hear the phrase: if you owe the bank $20,000 it's your problem.
If you owe the bank $20 million problems: it's their problem?

What happens when you default on your debt? You lose the ability to finance yourself through debt.

That is precisely what will happen when the debt bubble" explodes. Secondly, there will never ever be a hyper-inflationary situation in the US like there was with the Weimar republic.

The majority of money in the US is digital. 1s and 0s. If the fed wanted to, they could easily reduce the money supply. Unlike the Weimar republic and Venezuela who have/had stupid amounts of paper currency sloshing around.

Quote:

as in making our own food, having our own currency debt free, and using our own oil supply to greatly reduce the price.

I suggest you check around. America is largely self sufficient when it comes to food. We export the majority of it abroad. I also sadly see that you discounted the ingenuity of American entrepreneurial ability which is the hidden ace in the hole when it comes to this country's competitiveness abroad.

As for the other stuff, i'll let others pick that apart for me.

TL;DR: relax. Live your life, do some prepping just in case to alleviate your anxieties, and bang bitches.

[DarkTriad]

Quote:

That is precisely what will happen when the debt bubble" explodes. Secondly, there will never ever be a hyper-inflationary situation in the US like there was with the Weimar republic.

The majority of money in the US is digital. 1s and 0s. If the fed wanted to, they could easily reduce the money supply. Unlike the Weimar republic and Venezuela who have/had stupid amounts of paper currency sloshing around.

The Fed, despite it's fraudulent name, is not owned by America, in fact it's owned by people in stark opposition to our current Democratically elected gov't. It's one of our biggest current risk factors.

[IstillLoveVistaBaby]

I agree, the cucked system prevents America from truly being free in its own way. For as much food as we make, all the rest of our shit still says made in china.

[The Beast1]

(05-25-2017 03:58 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

Quote:

That is precisely what will happen when the debt bubble" explodes. Secondly, there will never ever be a hyper-inflationary situation in the US like there was with the Weimar republic.

The majority of money in the US is digital. 1s and 0s. If the fed wanted to, they could easily reduce the money supply. Unlike the Weimar republic and Venezuela who have/had stupid amounts of paper currency sloshing around.

The Fed, despite it's fraudulent name, is not owned by America, in fact it's owned by people in stark opposition to our current Democratically elected gov't. It's one of our biggest current risk factors.

I love drinking paranoid end of times kool-aid too, but we all forget that those who are in control of the fed don't have any interest in watching the world fall apart.

The Zerohedge, Martin Armstrong, and SHTF prepper crowd always seem to forget this: what good are the elites' greed and money if they can't buy any luxury items with it?

The elites have a vested interest in keeping the show going. Even though the Fed is controlled by (((them))) they don't want to see a collapse anymore than we do.

[Tytalus]

Historically, the only times things truly and collapse and are close to apocalyptic is during long periods of war with lots of back and forth fighting & raiding. The 30 years war in Germany in the 1600s or the 100 year's war between England and France were very, very bad for the peasants.

Things will really collapse if there are nuclear attacks.

[Brother Abdul Majeed]

(05-24-2017 10:30 PM)IstillLoveVistaBaby Wrote:  

I'm putting some money down that this has already been talked about profusely, but this is more of a succinct thread. Who here (poll) has firm belief that the American Economy will collapse, including the fiat system that supports the federal government? I mean in the point where all the people who don't seem to give a shit collecting money from the government will no longer be getting checks, the good and the bad: retired federal employees, veterans, union workers (cops and firefighters, teachers, etc) disabled federal/veterans, as well as the EBT WIC and LINK people (the welfare leeches).

Some people just have this flippant attitude that if the crash happens that their government pension or union check will be untouchable so they don't seem to give a shit about economic politics.

My point is that on all levels, things are affected, all money is once the fragile foundations finally cave in. All the cash you have saved up in an electronic bank account won't be worth shit.

So, will it happen? Or will the debt just keep rising until infinity?

I have just finished reading a book called The Death of Money by James Rickards. He explained very well why we are at the end of FIAT currency. It was a good read, it explained a lot of things I didn't know. but it reinforced my belief that our current economic system is unsustainable and we are heading for a collapse.

I have put my money where my mouth is and left Canada for Central America where I am buying land and building something that will support my entire family should the need be. Entirely self-sufficient.

This collapse might not happen right away, but it's inevitable.

[Heinrich von Geobbels]

The National Debt Clock http://www.usdebtclock.org/ puts us very close to being 20 trillion dollars in debt.

Logic says it has to collapse under its own hubris at some point.

I live in a very rural area where people are naturally self-sufficient. Most grow their own food and barter takes place constantly. We repair our own stuff and people around here collect guns like old timers collect stamps.

If it does all blow sky high, the kids will have it rough when they lose their smart phones and Facebook, but we'll probably end up being okay.

[Leonard D Neubache]

There's no way to know for sure how bad things will get.

You can compare a future event to other events but there are points of difference. The soviets collapsed but by that stage people had gotten used to doing what they could to survive by themselves. You could look to the Great Depression but at that time society was far more orderly and more importantly the vast majority of people still lived in the country where they could eke out a subsistence level lifestyle.

In a lot of ways there is a whole host of factors waiting in the wings that we've never seen before in a collapse. Extremely high levels of dependency on anti-depressants. Extremely high concentration of populations levels in cities vs the country. Highly industrialised and automated farm-to-table supply chains.

It's all well and good to say that "things will eventually recover" but for a lot of people that recovery will come far too late. The guy living a block over from a black ghetto when the EBT cards stop working is not going to be able to just wait 10 or 15 years for an eventual recovery. Shit is going to get interesting for him real fast.

Personally I'm not betting on a collapse, though I already evacuated myself and my family from the city back when I did believe such a collapse was inevitable and close.

As always, fortune favours the prepared mind. Being prepared is good but frankly being adaptable is better.

[IstillLoveVistaBaby]

Truth be told, it all can't be peachy forever. I agree. Maybe not a total collapse in our lifetime or even our children's lifetime, but the fake money bubble and the dependency on drugs and technology as a crutch for living will bite those people in the ass and many will die. If it does come down to where the trucks stop coming to the stores with food, then roving bands of hungry savages will definitely become a problem. For at least like you said Leonard, when the EBT cards stop working you have an entire sub-class of society that can't get their free shit anymore. Those who do not earn their keep know not the value that anything truly holds in life. The neighborhoods next to ghettos will be hit with major crime and lots of murders / muggings, but for anyone who thinks suburbia is safe I wouldn't get so cozy.

[Easy_C]

It has to.

Note how both Greece and Venezuala collapsed: people lost confidence and they couldn't continue to borrow financing their spending.

It will be the same in the USA. The economy will collapse hard the moment the US Government isn't able to sell their debt anymore.

[911]

There will be no dramatic collapse, but a long slow slide into serfdom, which was started in the 1950s-60s.

The slide is slow enough that most people don't notice, as their perception of what is normal keeps downshifting. Boiling frog syndrome.

A few decades ago, the head of a household was able to support his family on one salary, and his wife took good care of their children. Mortgage, car, furniture, college tuition: all on one salary. Today, married couples must work just to stay afloat.

Every few years there is a major recession to cull the progress that the middle class makes in managed boom and bust cycles. After each cycle, the middle class gets further reduced.

[Leonard D Neubache]

^I agree that people shouldn't wait for a some sort of epic financial reset. Having said that, there are things that can happen which are beyond even the control of the elites to prevent.

[Easy_C]

The elites of previous civilizations also thought likewise. Every empire's elites have thought they were different for some random, arbitrary reason that they picked out only to be proven wrong. At it's core level, for them to stay elites requires that a social contract exist at some level. otherwise there is nothing stopping them from being brutally murdered by their own bodyguards (as happened to several ancient royalty).

Eventually what happened to Rome was that life in the city became so unbearable that people just got up and walked away. You're already seeing some of that with "white flight" out of major city centers.

[Lime]

(05-25-2017 01:55 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(05-25-2017 01:38 PM)IstillLoveVistaBaby Wrote:  

Right, but what about the fictitious government currently in power in the US? All the fake currency, I mean with the debt bubble reaching its maximum parameters its hard to tell if anyone will ever recover. The politicians and their dalliances with the (((special interests))) will keep America from being prosperous, as in making our own food, having our own currency debt free, and using our own oil supply to greatly reduce the price. Factories may never reopen to fix the infrastructure and build glorious new skylines. When was the last time a new city was made?

In fact, when was the last time we were in economic surplus? That word seems to have gone extinct.

I'm willing to bet that in the not so distant future we may witness the collapse of the democratic party and an extreme shunning of RINOs. If the DNC collapses from the Seth Rich cases and other malfeasance that was brewing beneath the surface, the party constituents will rush to the handful of tiny political parties ushering in a new generation of multi-party rule for this country. Such an event would cripple corporations ability to lobby both sides of the aisle since multiple parties mean more wheels you need to grease. We live in interesting times and it's only a matter of time before the DNC's crimes come to light.

With that said: Ever hear the phrase: if you owe the bank $20,000 it's your problem.
If you owe the bank $20 million problems: it's their problem?

What happens when you default on your debt? You lose the ability to finance yourself through debt.

That is precisely what will happen when the debt bubble" explodes. Secondly, there will never ever be a hyper-inflationary situation in the US like there was with the Weimar republic.

The majority of money in the US is digital. 1s and 0s. If the fed wanted to, they could easily reduce the money supply. Unlike the Weimar republic and Venezuela who have/had stupid amounts of paper currency sloshing around.

Quote:

as in making our own food, having our own currency debt free, and using our own oil supply to greatly reduce the price.

I suggest you check around. America is largely self sufficient when it comes to food. We export the majority of it abroad. I also sadly see that you discounted the ingenuity of American entrepreneurial ability which is the hidden ace in the hole when it comes to this country's competitiveness abroad.

As for the other stuff, i'll let others pick that apart for me.

TL;DR: relax. Live your life, do some prepping just in case to alleviate your anxieties, and bang bitches.

What if the toolkit of the FED doesn't work anymore? You believe the FED have a solution for everything?

[BlastbeatCasanova]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u7kDfEtKfs

Joe Rogan interviewed Peter Schiff, a guy who predicted the 2008 crash, who says there's going to be a bigger and worse financial crash either in Trump's first term or definitely his second term (if he wins a second term). I can't vouch for the guy's credibility because I'm not familiar with him or his past work but there's definitely a lot of food for thought in here. He basically blames the problem on too much government and thus government overspending, how the FED won't be able to throw on a band aid and prop up the economy like the last crash

[Loki131]

(08-01-2018 10:36 AM)BlastbeatCasanova Wrote:  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u7kDfEtKfs

Joe Rogan interviewed Peter Schiff, a guy who predicted the 2008 crash, who says there's going to be a bigger and worse financial crash either in Trump's first term or definitely his second term (if he wins a second term). I can't vouch for the guy's credibility because I'm not familiar with him or his past work but there's definitely a lot of food for thought in here. He basically blames the problem on too much government and thus government overspending, how the FED won't be able to throw on a band aid and prop up the economy like the last crash

There is going to be a crash, but for (hopefully) us on the forum, this would be a boon for us. We would be able to buy assets dirt cheap, and start forming communities again. Unfortunately the cities will be utter chaos, but outside that, it would make america really great again.

Or, you know, a third world war with russia/China and possibly the death of billions.