[Brosemite]

Interesting read. I agree with many things Baldrich said and while some of the negatives he mentioned are things to take note of but not really take to heart.

With that being said, food in the US is extremely overly processed. I've lived abroad and during that time eaten well and exercised well. I exercise exponentially harder while in the US while having to cut down on portions big time due to the ingredients here.

[scotian]

(05-21-2017 08:02 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

I'd say it's mostly Moroccan stuff, hash for the greater part.

I smoked boat loads of the Moroccan soap bar hash bunk when I lived in the south of France in the late 90's, green buds were rare there. Do you guys honestly mean to tell me the the Spaniards are still smoking that garbage almost two decades later, Dutch weed still hasn't appeared there?

A certain well reputed RVF member is currently at a nude resort somewhere in the Costa Del Sol and the photos he is sending me are amazing: the beaches are nice, the food looks awesome and the prices are very reasonable. Spain seems like an ideal place, I'm a huge slacker who loves to smoke dope, all I need is a decent gym, a nice beach and good weed connect and I'm set. I hope these Moroccan shit rumours aren't true. Colombians can now travel to Spain visa-free, I'm thinking of flying in some fake booby bitches to the Costa Del Sol, stuffing my face with paella, getting jacked on TRT and smoking reefers the size of my forearm, is this not possible in Spain?

[Elster]

I'd say it's entirely possible.
There's a lot of outside gyms everywhere in the coastal towns.
You are more likely to get hash in the Costa del Sol because it's the entry point for Moroccan stuff. The traffickers speedboats sometimes don't manage to shake the Guardia Civil off their tails after Gibraltar and it often happens they have to land quickly in the Spanish coast and lose a lot of material on the way.
The locals in the know happily await these occasions as it means that you could find hash eggs washing up the shore.
In the rest of Spain more people smoke María proper and there are still a lot who have their own plants.
Except for the Pyrénées I found "shit" to be more consumed amongst the french.

[scotian]

^God damned frogs and their "shit", I've never seen someone flake up a chunk of hash into a rolling paper then dump an entire Marlboro cigarette in and smoke it until I went to France, fucking Euro weenies, that would get you smacked in North America.

[atlant]

The ideal setup with places like Spain obviously is to go hard for the majority of the year in a place like the US or Asia and then spend the summer in Spain. That's how I've been doing it for years and that way you're really getting the best of both worlds without getting affected by the local mentality in either place too much.

[Baldrich]

(05-21-2017 09:31 PM)Abe Lincoln Wrote:  

I concur with Baldrich. Even in Scandanavia there is a similar lack of imagination and blandness. Things are so regulated by the massive euro nanny state governments that people become very uncreative and cookie cutter. All of the stores tend to have the same limited selection and no variety in any particular item like pastas or shampoo or whatever. The people are also reflexively leftist everywhere all the time always. There are few free thinking 'rational' people and individual rights and limited government is on the mind of .01% of the people.

The US has its downsides but I can imagine how long term life in Europe would suck. People just dont have the can-do attitude and don't value quick efficient transactions. We have so much more of an optimistic and individualist cowboy mentality. I woudn't mind owning a home in europe but I don't think I could livr there permanently.

Yep -- sounds like Spain's supermarkets. Always the SAME brands of shampoos/other products (a very limited variety) and even the supposedly "high end" supermarkets such as "Corte Inglés" (Supercor) are no where near anything high end in the US.

And yes, don't even get me started on the politics! The US has way more free thinkers than anything in Europe. The US may be a messed up place in many ways, but you also get militia movements in every state and plenty of guys with balls (for good or ill). Europe? No way! I can't think of a single European male leader today that has the balls of any outspoken American conservative...at most you may get Nigel Farage and a sprinkle here and there but in a country like Spain, which is comprised mainly of BETAS or worse, you won't find anything.

Here's an average conversation with 99,999999% of Spanish university students:

"So, what are you up to this weekend"?

Student: "Ehhh...beeseeting mei village to eat with mei parents".

Every single f-ing week it's the same. No imagination , no road trips, no adventure, no sense of exploration or individuality at all.

Another example:

"I have guns in the US".
Average Spanish person: "Here guns are banned...America is crazy!"

And me thinking...freedom is crazy? It may be crazy but it sure as hell works.

The average behavior of men here would get them smacked (in the best of cases) in the US.

[Baldrich]

(05-22-2017 02:02 AM)atlant Wrote:  

The ideal setup with places like Spain obviously is to go hard for the majority of the year in a place like the US or Asia and then spend the summer in Spain. That's how I've been doing it for years and that way you're really getting the best of both worlds without getting affected by the local mentality in either place too much.

I totally agree -- Spain is a great place if you come for periods like the Summer or Winter (if you go South) and bring American cash/salary. You will live very well here...and I would definitely do something like that...in fact, that's how the majority of very wealthy Spaniards do it. Most wealthy Spaniards leave the country and work in London, NYC or other places and only come back to visit. I know lots of Spaniards living in the US who tell me they would never return to live in Spain. Isn't that something? Most Europeans in the US never return to live permanently in Europe...deep down they know they won't have it as good as in America.

[Elster]

Funnily enough its quite easy to get a gun permit in Spain.
You go to the local Guardia Civil office, request a gun permit,get a background check and an exam date and if you pass you're good.

[ActiontoKnowledge]

Thanks for the write-up OP. It's really interesting to hear the opinions and insights of an expat who has lived in Spain long-term.

I just wrapped up a one week stay in Barcelona. While obviously I only scratched the surface I came to similar conclusions as you. The pace of life here is way more laid back and people seem more lazy and are unmotivated to work. Just to give a small example, I tried to exchange money at a bank on my first day here and they were closed at 2PM on a weekday - wtf? What kind of bank has 9am-2pm working hours? Weird.

It seems like a good place to vacay and enjoy the night life / beaches / gaming girls / boozing like you said, but living here long-term for anybody who is an ambitious hustler who wants to achieve great things in life or business should go elsewhere.

[Elster]

I'm beggining to think the problem many RVFers have with mediterranean and/or latin cultural lands is that they come with an anglo saxon mentality and are unable or unwilling to understand that the social and ethical customs are different, and vice-versa. Although of course the local people have less of a motivation and no obligation to facilitate integration.
It is very interesting to take into account these observations however, as they can help to clear a bit more the reach of cultural gaps between the people,and thus provide valuable insight in avoiding pitfalls.

[Baldrich]

(05-22-2017 05:42 AM)ActiontoKnowledge Wrote:  

Thanks for the write-up OP. It's really interesting to hear the opinions and insights of an expat who has lived in Spain long-term.

I just wrapped up a one week stay in Barcelona. While obviously I only scratched the surface I came to similar conclusions as you. The pace of life here is way more laid back and people seem more lazy and are unmotivated to work. Just to give a small example, I tried to exchange money at a bank on my first day here and they were closed at 2PM on a weekday - wtf? What kind of bank has 9am-2pm working hours? Weird.

It seems like a good place to vacay and enjoy the night life / beaches / gaming girls / boozing like you said, but living here long-term for anybody who is an ambitious hustler who wants to achieve great things in life or business should go elsewhere.

Exactly! Banking hours here are RIDICULOUS and LONG LINES, closed on Saturdays...I really hate banking in Spain - they are still stuck in the 19th century when it comes to banking. ALL BANKS here are 9 am to 2 pm, no exceptions. My own bank used to open Saturdays but they stopped that a few years ago.

After you get over the partying and what not, it's an empty place with no opportunities and/or future. That's why ambitious young Spaniards leave the country in droves.

@El Gostro: That may be true but why do so many young people from Spain say the same? Many want to leave and go to the US.

[Elster]

We had, or probably still have, a similar situation in Argentina back in the early 2000's.
The local job market is lacking, and the individuals that have above average capacityand/or education will seek to relocate to greener grass which of course arent the larger part of the population. Hence why you will find so many argentinians in the least likely of places even today.

I think until the late eighties if not the nineties Spain had always been a country with a large capacity of emigrative workers, meaning times of crisis and/or incompetent governing are not very alien to the local populace, many will naturally shrug it off and continue their day with a tightened belt, the younger ones who do not have a strong backing as you pointed out many do will have more pressure in finding a situation that provides greater stability. I would dare estimate many of the people that leave now would come back at some later point due to the strong family culture prevalent.
Argentinians on the other side are less likely to come back as they seem to be less culturally rooted in general...

[Baldrich]

(05-22-2017 06:40 AM)El_Gostro Wrote:  

We had, or probably still have, a similar situation in Argentina back in the early 2000's.
The local job market is lacking, and the individuals that have above average capacityand/or education will seek to relocate to greener grass which of course arent the larger part of the population. Hence why you will find so many argentinians in the least likely of places even today.

I think until the late eighties if not the nineties Spain had always been a country with a large capacity of emigrative workers, meaning times of crisis and/or incompetent governing are not very alien to the local populace, many will naturally shrug it off and continue their day with a tightened belt, the younger ones who do not have a strong backing as you pointed out many do will have more pressure in finding a situation that provides greater stability. I would dare estimate many of the people that leave now would come back at some later point due to the strong family culture prevalent.
Argentinians on the other side are less likely to come back as they seem to be less culturally rooted in general...

I find this is true of Spaniards emigrating around Europe but not to the Americas (North or South). Europe in general as you know is not at all welcoming to anyone "foreign" or different...despite official rhetoric.

What you say about "shrug it off and continue their day" is exactly why this country exasperates me. They have one of the most corrupt governments in the world and yet, nobody gets punished, nothing gets truly investigated and they shrug everything off with that irritating "qué será será" passive, non-Western attitude.

Just the other day (to give you an example of this) I was in Consum (you know what I'm talking about) and this awful woman just cuts in line. Nobody dared say anything to her except me -- I said "excuse me, you weren't here, you need to go to the back of the line". She was really shocked that I called her out on it...but Americans in general just don't put up with that crap. She then gave me an attitude and I said "get some manners" -- I'll write in Spanish what I told her since you speak it: "eres una maleducada de mucho cuidado". But again, I was the only one who called her out on her behavior, because people here are pushovers. I've got no respect for pushovers and doormats.

[Elster]

Hahahah! That's a good one,man!

I agree on the governance,unfortunately I cannot provide neither a defense nor a strong condmenation for it. It just is,and in a very spanish sense I do not see myself having the power to change these things,of course when that though is collective it could be problematic but ,it is what it is,I guess( I do sound like a spaniard).

I would say however that in that sense, places like this do stimulate the development of Mavericks, who are more likely to leave and/or game the system like magnificent bastards,most likely in a self serving way,but who can blame them? Then again I find it sort of adorable.

[Baldrich]

Absolutely. I've done some things here in Spain that would've definitely gotten me arrested in the US and like you say, if you are intelligent you can really game the system here because it is so absurd and rigid and the workers have no imagination in the public service that it goes from being tempting to just being an obligation to game them. That's one thing I will definitely miss about Spain: you can get away with A LOT if you're smart and creative about it.

[debeguiled]

(05-22-2017 06:49 AM)Baldrich Wrote:  

Just the other day (to give you an example of this) I was in Consum (you know what I'm talking about) and this awful woman just cuts in line. Nobody dared say anything to her except me -- I said "excuse me, you weren't here, you need to go to the back of the line". She was really shocked that I called her out on it...but Americans in general just don't put up with that crap. She then gave me an attitude and I said "get some manners" -- I'll write in Spanish what I told her since you speak it: "eres una maleducada de mucho cuidado". But again, I was the only one who called her out on her behavior, because people here are pushovers. I've got no respect for pushovers and doormats.

You are describing Santa Fe New Mexico as well. Insane self centered behavior, and truly surreal driving habits, and yet apparently, I was the only one with a voice or a horn.

It would be a cruel cosmic joke if you came back and had to live in Santa Fe.

[Wander]

Quote:

like to argue with Brits over which language is better American or English

Since when was "American" a language?

A lot of negativity, would it be fair to assume you didn't have an awful lot of success with the "European" ladies?

[GreenHills]

Europeans are certainly not as strong as Americans in work, I agree with that. I have a friend of mine who was dreaming of living in Spain, because the weather is good and supposedly it's relaxed. He's a successful tech guy. Eventually he moved to the US. I thought his idea of going to Spain was dumb. Who exactly is he going to surround himself and his kids with? Spain is not exactly known for technical, business or educational excellence. I know lots of talented people from European countries, killing it in the US, but I can only think of one Spanish person. Maybe I'm just prejudiced though, I've only been to Spain as a tourist.

[scrambled]

Baldrich Wrote:

if you are intelligent you can really game the system here because it is so absurd and rigid and the workers have no imagination in the public service that it goes from being tempting to just being an obligation to game them.

I love "absurd" systems, especially ones so "rigid" that I can "game" them (i.e. take advantage of flexibility inherent in the system).

Quote:

They have one of the most corrupt governments in the world

Splitting (psychology) Splitting (also called black-and-white thinking or all-or-nothing thinking) is the failure in a person's thinking to bring together the dichotomy of both positive and negative qualities of the self and others into a cohesive, realistic whole. It is a common defense mechanism used by many people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology)

Quote:

that irritating "qué será será" passive, non-Western attitude.

The European Mediterranean Coast (esp. Spain/Greece/Italy) attitude is quite non-Western, perhaps even originating from the South Pole.

Quote:

Just the other day (to give you an example of this) I was in Consum (you know what I'm talking about) and this awful woman just cuts in line.

On the bright side, at least she's not on the forum.

Quote:

She was really shocked that I called her out on it...but Americans in general just don't put up with that crap.

Americans would have pulled out multiple revolvers "and let God sort 'em out".

Quote:

She then gave me an attitude and I said "get some manners" -- I'll write in Spanish what I told her since you speak it: "eres una maleducada de mucho cuidado".

I wish I could see you in action, sounds youtube worthy, if only just to read the comments.

Quote:

But again, I was the only one who called her out on her behavior, because people here are pushovers. I've got no respect for pushovers and doormats.

I know, right? People who aggressively cut into line are the worst kind of pushover.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxymoron
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contradiction

Quote:

Europe in general as you know is not at all welcoming to anyone "foreign" or different...despite official rhetoric.

Don't worry, you are their ideal guest.

[scrambled]

Baldrich Wrote:

Here's an average conversation with 99,999999% of Spanish university students:
Student: "Ehhh...beeseeting mei village to eat with mei parents".

And your accent is of perfect Castile, as if Burgos-born.

Quote:

Every single f-ing week it's the same. No imagination , no road trips, no adventure, no sense of exploration or individuality at all.

https://www.forocoches.com/foro/forumdisplay.php?f=27

[ElFlaco]

(05-22-2017 04:19 AM)Baldrich Wrote:  

Student: "Ehhh...beeseeting mei village to eat with mei parents".

Every single f-ing week it's the same. No imagination , no road trips, no adventure, no sense of exploration or individuality at all.

By chance, do they take their laundry home with them so mom can wash it?

(05-22-2017 02:02 AM)atlant Wrote:  

The ideal setup with places like Spain obviously is to go hard for the majority of the year in a place like the US or Asia and then spend the summer in Spain. That's how I've been doing it for years and that way you're really getting the best of both worlds without getting affected by the local mentality in either place too much.

Intriguing idea. I will mull this over.

[britchard]

So what. I like Europe being a diverse (no, not Soros-style 'diverse') set of of sovereign nations. Wouldn't it be boring if everywhere was like the US? Let the Spaniards do what they want. It is, however, annoying if they are using German and British money to fund their cafe lifestyle.

Whenever I've been to Spain I always found the heat far too hot to do anything other than laze around.

[The Beast1]

A-Fucking-Men!

I was at a party over the weekend where someone asked me what it's like being stateside. I loudly and proudly announced:

"After living and traveling abroad, I can say without question that America is the best country in the world."

Stunned disbelief. My take on Europe is this: the rich very much like their positions in society and so to avoid anyone trampling them they sedate the masses with excessive welfare, free healthcare, and long vacations. Added with excessive regulations, it's any wonder that businesses continue to operate there at all.

This is great if you have no aspirations to anything which it seems to be an infliction in most of the west.

Your take on Spain is correct. I call them Spantards who are lazy and have no qualms about ripping you off if they're in need of money which is a pretty consistent thing. No wonder their country is a mess.

I learned very quickly to avoid and not trust them. At least Americans have drive and self determination. Europe as a whole is a floundering mess held together and dominated by the English, Germans, and to a lesser extent the French.

The amount of people I met who would give their left hand for an opportunity to live in America was boundless. I don't know why we bother trying to immigrate 3rd world trash. You could open the doors to Europeans and have semi intelligent people come over.

Just make sure you don't let them vote because we all know they'd vote stupid folks in power and force them to settle and live permanently in one geographical location that isn't New York.

[Cation]

@Baldrich
First of all, thank you for your impressions.

However, I can't shake this thing off...you dislike a country and feel out of place, yet it still took you 10 years to leave? I'm confused.

[kronenbourg]

As a European I do agree with most of your points regarding Spain, but who goes to Spain for work anyways?
If you are looking to work your ass off and climb up the career ladder, southern Europe must be one of the worst places in the world. It's a great place to live, but a terrible place to work. So yeah, you picked the wrong place, but why stay 10 years?