[soup]

Any hot girl who isn't an idiot must know that you are trying to fuck her if you've just opened (unless you're asking for the time or some other low investment thing). So, unless you are a movie star or a clearly high-status guy, why even go through qualification? Isn't it best to just be honest and run direct game?

Actually, why approach/open at all? If it's understood that everyone in the bar is there to party, isn't the best qualification to ignore the girls unless they are really attractive (for what ever reason- beauty, body language, etc.) and then just go direct? Otherwise, you'll end up fucking a chick you're not really into.

[Samseau]

Qualification: Just tell a girl when you like something about her that isn't related to looks. But you actually kinda have to believe yourself. "Wow, you speak 3 languages? Not bad."

[K-man]

Hey man, next you'll ask why all the hot girls don't just assume the doggystyle position when you clap your hands twice.
That's just how the game is played.

Qualification: Described by Samseu, good stuff.
Making her qualify herself: Even more powerful stuff. This is when you state the standards you expect your girl to meet, and wait for her to say how she totally meets them. She will only do this if your company has been enjoyable and you have been attractive to her - and if she does, you're golden.

[stein]

K-man, Samseau. Thanks for that breakdown. I'm frequently befuddled by this part of the game. I understand that it's important to show a girl that you have standards that she's meeting. The game is about flipping the script and framing an interaction so it seems the girl is impressing you. But this is a subtle art. Can y'all give dialog/examples demonstrating how to make a girl qualify herself. I want to get a sense of the mindset so I can find what works for me. I just don't know how to approach the stage of the interaction.

Oldnemesis explained in another thread that you can compliment a girl on her achievements - isn't your 3-language qualification statement a compliment?

Roissy gives examples of qualifying questions such as "can you cook, can you give massages etc." - but these seem contrived - i can't imagine asking these to a college-aged girl right after i open her, at night, in a bar with loud music+dance floor ("can you dance?" hasn't worked). I intend to escalate towards a ONS so these questions don't "fit in" and I feel I'm missing a big piece of the puzzle by not qualifying.

[K-man]

Stein - I don't rely much on qualifying, or much on verbal game for that matter. This is good for dates or for quieter places like lounges, daygame, etc.
My game these days is mostly night game focused on the ONS possibility, as I don't collect phone numbers. I run it in loud clubs and bars where spitting complicated verbal game is not feasible because of the noise. So I just open with something standard, spend 10-15 minutes yapping about casual stuff while trying not to say anything stupid, and bust out a routine or two. If she seems to like that, then I shrink the distance so she can look at me upclose, smell me, feel my body, etc. then take it from there.
As you can imagine, this type of game has not a very high success rate, as it forces a girl to make a decision sooner rather than later, before she has gotten to know you.

If you run a less direct game, qualifying is very useful. Before, when I used to go out on dates and actually talk to girls on a more than superficial level, I would qualify them on locally relevant stuff, like this:
- where they like to go to the beach (implying how some people are show-off's who go to trendy resorts only vs. nature lovers). No matter what she says she likes you can say you agree (qualifying) or you can first state you only like one not the other, and watch if she agrees (make her qualify)
- what kind of music she listens to and what clubs she goes to party at (same idea here). This is big in my country where two (very different) styles of music compete and divide people in two camps. I don't know what to compare it to, something like East Coast vs. West Coast hip-hop where people actually shot each other, only here the battles are just fought in the media.
- pretty much anything like school, work, movies, books where a choice is involved - either you ask her choice and compliment it, or state yours and watch if she agrees with it.

[soup]

(08-30-2011 06:07 AM)K-man Wrote:  

Stein - I don't rely much on qualifying, or much on verbal game for that matter. This is good for dates or for quieter places like lounges, daygame, etc.
My game these days is mostly night game focused on the ONS possibility, as I don't collect phone numbers. I run it in loud clubs and bars where spitting complicated verbal game is not feasible because of the noise. So I just open with something standard, spend 10-15 minutes yapping about casual stuff while trying not to say anything stupid, and bust out a routine or two. If she seems to like that, then I shrink the distance so she can look at me upclose, smell me, feel my body, etc. then take it from there.
As you can imagine, this type of game has not a very high success rate, as it forces a girl to make a decision sooner rather than later, before she has gotten to know you.

If you run a less direct game, qualifying is very useful. Before, when I used to go out on dates and actually talk to girls on a more than superficial level, I would qualify them on locally relevant stuff, like this:
- where they like to go to the beach (implying how some people are show-off's who go to trendy resorts only vs. nature lovers). No matter what she says she likes you can say you agree (qualifying) or you can first state you only like one not the other, and watch if she agrees (make her qualify)
- what kind of music she listens to and what clubs she goes to party at (same idea here). This is big in my country where two (very different) styles of music compete and divide people in two camps. I don't know what to compare it to, something like East Coast vs. West Coast hip-hop where people actually shot each other, only here the battles are just fought in the media.
- pretty much anything like school, work, movies, books where a choice is involved - either you ask her choice and compliment it, or state yours and watch if she agrees with it.

I agree about qualifying on dates.. it's got more to do with "do I really want to spend time with this chick?" But, the truth is that a really hot girl doesn't go on normal dates I believe. Models, strippers, waitresses, actresses.. these girls tend to be in party mode most of the time. So, a date with a really hot chick is usually "hey I'm at this club/bar with X people.. you should come hang." Regular dates are for Okcupid chicks.

So, I'm talking about qualification in party/bar/clubs.. There's got to be another way too frame or calibrate this stage in those situations.. the subtext has to be the same, but making inferences about cooking etc. is almost creepy / shows little social intelligence.

I think it's more physical in these places and you have to do most of your communication through disciplined body language.

[MiXX]

I have girls qualify themselves to measure their level of interest/attraction in me. This is typically done mid-game where you are moving out of the trust-comfort stage and ate ready to start escalating heavy kino to build up to a kiss.

Qualification is a hood indicator of 3 things:

1. Is she feeling you?
2. Dies she want you to physically escalate?
3. Is she just bored and killing time with you until something else grabs her attention that is "shinier"?

[soup]

(08-30-2011 12:15 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

I have girls qualify themselves to measure their level of interest/attraction in me. This is typically done mid-game where you are moving out of the trust-comfort stage and ate ready to start escalating heavy kino to build up to a kiss.

Qualification is a hood indicator of 3 things:

1. Is she feeling you?
2. Dies she want you to physically escalate?
3. Is she just bored and killing time with you until something else grabs her attention that is "shinier"?

Mixx,

So you use it as a diagnostic tool? That makes more sense to me than using it as a way to build attraction- most girls can probably sense this manipulative intent.

[oldnemesis]

(08-29-2011 09:58 PM)soup Wrote:  

Any hot girl who isn't an idiot must know that you are trying to fuck her if you've just opened (unless you're asking for the time or some other low investment thing).

This is what disqualifiers/negs are for. Yes, a hot girl knows a guy talking to her wants to fuck her, but once the guy negs her (i.e. "too bad you're ..., there is no way for us to hang out") she is not sure anymore. If a dude is teasing her, she is not sure whether you want to fuck her or just having fun. After all, she knows from past experience the guys who want to fuck her flood her with compliments and buying her drinks, and if the guy doesn't do those things, then it is not clear.

Quote:

So, unless you are a movie star or a clearly high-status guy, why even go through qualification?

Because it builds value, and adds the element of chasing. Think about it from the girl's view: a dude who looks happy just because a girl is talking to him and touching him probably has lower value than her. She knows she can have him any time, so she'll focus on seeing if there are any more worthy dudes around.

Quote:

Isn't it best to just be honest and run direct game?

Direct game works very well if your value is already high at the moment you approached her. Basically if from the way you look and behave you think that if you come talking to a chick this would make every other chick around jealous, you can go direct.

[soup]

(08-30-2011 06:28 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(08-29-2011 09:58 PM)soup Wrote:  

Any hot girl who isn't an idiot must know that you are trying to fuck her if you've just opened (unless you're asking for the time or some other low investment thing).

This is what disqualifiers/negs are for. Yes, a hot girl knows a guy talking to her wants to fuck her, but once the guy negs her (i.e. "too bad you're ..., there is no way for us to hang out") she is not sure anymore. If a dude is teasing her, she is not sure whether you want to fuck her or just having fun. After all, she knows from past experience the guys who want to fuck her flood her with compliments and buying her drinks, and if the guy doesn't do those things, then it is not clear.

Quote:

So, unless you are a movie star or a clearly high-status guy, why even go through qualification?

Because it builds value, and adds the element of chasing. Think about it from the girl's view: a dude who looks happy just because a girl is talking to him and touching him probably has lower value than her. She knows she can have him any time, so she'll focus on seeing if there are any more worthy dudes around.

Quote:

Isn't it best to just be honest and run direct game?

Direct game works very well if your value is already high at the moment you approached her. Basically if from the way you look and behave you think that if you come talking to a chick this would make every other chick around jealous, you can go direct.

Your value should be higher no matter what. Otherwise you might be kidding yourself. And
i mean for internal.

[oldnemesis]

(08-31-2011 04:16 AM)soup Wrote:  

Your value should be higher no matter what. Otherwise you might be kidding yourself. And
i mean for internal.

If your internal value is high, but the value you show is low, you'll look uncongruent, and make people wonder what's wrong with you.

[Gmac]

(08-31-2011 07:11 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(08-31-2011 04:16 AM)soup Wrote:  

Your value should be higher no matter what. Otherwise you might be kidding yourself. And
i mean for internal.

If your internal value is high, but the value you show is low, you'll look uncongruent, and make people wonder what's wrong with you.

Like ridiculously confident fat women... yuck.

[soup]

(09-01-2011 08:13 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

(08-31-2011 07:11 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(08-31-2011 04:16 AM)soup Wrote:  

Your value should be higher no matter what. Otherwise you might be kidding yourself. And
i mean for internal.

If your internal value is high, but the value you show is low, you'll look uncongruent, and make people wonder what's wrong with you.

Like ridiculously confident fat women... yuck.

Yes, but is it really better to act sucky if you feel like crap?

[oldnemesis]

(09-01-2011 10:32 AM)soup Wrote:  

Yes, but is it really better to act sucky if you feel like crap?

If you feel like crap, do something to change the way you feel first.
A fat chick is not attractive no matter how she feels.

[Mighty Mouse]

(08-29-2011 09:58 PM)soup Wrote:  

Any hot girl who isn't an idiot must know that you are trying to fuck her if you've just opened (unless you're asking for the time or some other low investment thing). So, unless you are a movie star or a clearly high-status guy, why even go through qualification? Isn't it best to just be honest and run direct game?

Of course, every cute/hot girl knows that more or less 99 per cent of all straight guys want to fuck her.

But the question the girl asks herself is: "Does he ONLY want to fuck me, or is he interested in DATING me?" (Read: Dating = Fucking + Emotional connection)

For getting girls "out of your league" qualification is really necessary. It's part of emotional connection, when you show her that you like her for some traits beyond her looks.

It's this "emotional connection" that makes a cute/hot girl date (read: fuck) a sub-par man.

Of course, if you only want some quick notches with some HB 4-5 girls, qualification is not necessary.