[serendickitous]

OP, did you have a job offer lined up? If so, the loss of those potential earnings figure into a lawsuit.

It sucks, but if this thing moves forward it is going to dominate at least the next 2-3 years of your life, and that assumes you are cleared. These things can move slowly.

These girls need to be made aware of how much publicity this will generate. Suddenly 50 people thinking they are sluts becomes thousands when news picks it up. Go hard man. Destroy them in every way you legally and ethically can. DESTROY THESE WHORES.

[PapayaTapper]

Relevant thread

thread-50196.html

[Mess O.]

I recently ran into something similar, and from what I read, never pull the "consensual" stance, since then you've essentially admitted to engaging in whatever you've been alleged of doing. The one and only proper defense is that "it" never happened. And don't make any attempt to share your side of it with police. They're only hoping to conjure up the necessary grounds in order to make an arrest.

[weambulance]

(04-26-2017 04:14 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 03:21 PM)Beowulf Wrote:  

Edit: Are there any mods reading this who can delete some of the specific information I posted originally? I'm trying to edit the post but it says I can't change until 60 min have passed, which they have and I still can't edit it.

You have been a member of this forum for 4 years and still don't know the most basic rules?

OP, if you haven't PMed Roosh or Soma to ask them to clear out the potentially identifying information in your post you need to do that right now.

Shit, I could probably figure out who you are just off what you said, and trust me, you don't want that not only because of this case but because this forum has a lot of fucking psychos watching from the outside who would be only too happy to ruin your life as best they can.

And it's "you can only edit for 60 minutes" not the other way around.

[Jean Valjean]

(04-26-2017 07:36 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  

I recently ran into something similar, and from what I read, never pull the "consensual" stance, since then you've essentially admitted to engaging in whatever you've been alleged of doing. The one and only proper defense is that "it" never happened. And don't make any attempt to share your side of it with police. They're only hoping to conjure up the necessary grounds in order to make an arrest.

Yeah, if you make no statement at all, it leaves a lot of other possible explanations for the accusers' testimony. Maybe it's a case of mistaken identity, and it was actually your twin brother who banged those chicks, while you were 1,000 miles away. As far as the court knows, it's possible. As soon as you admit to even being there, you start to reduce the number of possible alternative explanations for what happened.

On the other hand, if you say, "I was 1,000 miles away," and a witness says, "No he wasn't," then they'll try to say, "Aha, we just caught him in a lie. And he had no reason to lie unless he's guilty!"

You have to be really careful what kind of evidence you present in an effort to exculpate yourself, because you can actually make it easier for them to find you guilty, by giving them a bunch of circumstantial evidence that can be used against you. This is very counterintuitive, because our whole culture teaches the opposite. From elementary school, they tell us the story of how George Washington said, "I cannot tell a lie" and admitted cutting down the cherry tree, and everything was fine because he confessed. In church, they say, "Confess your sins to the priest and you will be absolved." (So you have to say five Hail Marys; it's better than going to Hell.)

On the other hand, if your parents question you about a smashed vase and you refuse to answer, they say, "I guess you did it, then, since you're not denying it. Silence means you're guilty." It just seems like the most natural thing, then, to try to talk your way out of a rape accusation; but no matter what you say, it's worse than if you just said nothing.

I just wonder about the rules of engagement of this type of administrative trial. Are they allowed to draw an adverse inference if you plead the Fifth and refuse to answer their questions? I know that in family court it works that way.

By the way, it's not unheard of for accusers to flake out and decide not to testify, especially if they graduate and move out of the area.

[Mess O.]

And taking this a bit further, in my case, when some detective or what have ya called me the following day after the incident, using a restricted number, I admitted to being there, but flatly and adamantly denied having perpetrated what I was specifically being accused of doing. As that immensely tense week went on, I hovered over the phone, anticipating another "restricted" call, as the dude said he'd be getting back to me. A few days later, I missed a call, but after that, it seemed to be the end of the issue. I did some research on the law, and that's how I found out about the proper stance on such things, even if you have to fucking lie or stonewall. Again, don't talk to police without a lawyer, and NEVER interact with the psychotic slut(s) in question again. I sure didn't.

[Robtormar]

lol liberal arts college in NY, damn son you picked a bad spot. Honestly I'd say you're probably going to be fine in the long run. Just get a good lawyer and old messages and you'll be guud.

[MaceTyrell]

My heart goes out to you OP.

Absolutely crazy that females can get litigious over GRINDING.

[griffinmill]

Also, please read this book:

Campus Rape Frenzy

It will give you helpful tips on how to strike back legally.

[SlickyBoy]

(04-26-2017 01:21 PM)Beowulf Wrote:  

Hi all, I apologize for posting this in the Game section, but honestly I have no idea where to put it. If a mod wants to move it to an appropriate location, please do so.

I'm currently being charged with sexual assault by two girls who I hooked up with two years ago. [delete]

Additionally, the college policy is not "Innocent until proven guilty" but said literally to me by a college official "More likely than not".

The situation is that even if these charges are proven false, I won't be able to get my degree until after the investigation into me finishes. If they're accepted, I'll be expelled or suspended.

They've told me that I should look into an advocate or adviser for myself, someone on the faculty or even a lawyer. I'm not close to any professors or administrative staff, and even so I wouldn't trust them with serious accusations like these. Can any of you recommend a lawyer nearby who specializes in these cases, or tell me what you think I should do in my situation? I'm really loosing my shit over this, especially because I'll have to tell my parents I'm not graduating, or might not ever be. Please, what the fuck do I do? Let me know if you have any questions or want more information. I'm incredibly grateful for whatever help you can offer.

Advocate or advisor-? Sounds like they're secretly hoping you don't go and find an attorney and show up with one of your frat buddies. Get an attorney and put a stop to this shit. While you are at it, ask him about how to file a defamation suit against either or both of those bitches if what they say is false. Regardless of what the school does, you may still have a case if they can't back up what they claimed with actual, real evidence. Not to mention harm done to your academic (and potentially economic) career. Once they realize it will wind up in civil court they may change their tune.

I would like to know where it says in the student manual or college policies what, precisely, the details behind the made up doctrine of "more likely than not." What are the evidentiary standards? Who has the burden of proof? Is conduct off the university grounds even covered? Etc., etc. I think if either of them had a real case there would be a police report filed, but they probably both know that filing a false police report is a crime, so they'll use this kangaroo court to tar and feather you.

Without more facts it's difficult to offer more advice than get a lawyer, but really, you need to do it NOW.

[SlickyBoy]

(04-26-2017 03:33 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 03:21 PM)Beowulf Wrote:  

I'll keep in mind the right to sue, but would that really help the situation at all?

Someone earlier in the thread brought up the possibility of a lawsuit and I'm not exactly sure who they were talking about suing. Suing either of these two whores would be a total waste of everyone's time, including your own. Sometimes people watch a lot of t.v. or whatever and get ridiculous ideas in their head about suing people. Like I tell people who I meet in real life, 99% of the world has nothing and I'm willing to bet that people who have nothing better to do with their time than to make false accusations against people are most likely not in the good 1%. Now, if there was some negligence or other tortious behavior on the university's part, you may have something there. If they are merely doing their job, then that would also be a waste of everyone's time. It may be too early to tell at this point.

If they are still dependents of their parents (likely) they have something.

[Jetset]

(04-27-2017 09:17 AM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

If they are still dependents of their parents (likely) they have something.

I am not a lawyer, but it's my understanding that you can't bankruptcy out of judgments brought about by malicious or fraudulent actions.

You've got a new grad who is going to be job-hunting and I believe judgment liens in that state persist for 20 years. This is all for OP's lawyer to contemplate deeply.

[Ironbutt62]

I would like to know where it says in the student manual or college policies what, precisely, the details behind the made up doctrine of "more likely than not." What are the evidentiary standards? Who has the burden of proof? Is conduct off the university grounds even covered? Etc., etc. I think if either of them had a real case there would be a police report filed, but they probably both know that filing a false police report is a crime, so they'll use this kangaroo court to tar and feather you.

Without more facts it's difficult to offer more advice than get a lawyer, but really, you need to do it NOW.
[/quote]



These damn colleges have a vested interest in not involving the police, because campus assaults--or allegations of assaults, regardless of truth are always regarded as true by the media and the public once there is an official record. It won't matter what's true or not true anymore, the college gets accused on tv as not being a "safe-fucking-space".
They don't have YOUR interest in mind in any way. They will try to keep it quiet to protect their bottom line, but they will bring on all the "punishment " they threatened.
Lawyer lawyer lawyer. It's the only way to beat them.

[Beowulf]

Update:

I just called my parents and told them about the situation. My dad told me I need to have a better judge of peoples character, he's right. My mom is busy flipping out on the other hand. The lawyers I've been talking to have also been very helpful, but I need to pick one soon. Thanks to all of you offering support and guidance through this situation. One day I hope to pay it back to the community.

(04-26-2017 05:48 PM)serendickitous Wrote:  

OP, did you have a job offer lined up? If so, the loss of those potential earnings figure into a lawsuit.

It sucks, but if this thing moves forward it is going to dominate at least the next 2-3 years of your life, and that assumes you are cleared. These things can move slowly.

These girls need to be made aware of how much publicity this will generate. Suddenly 50 people thinking they are sluts becomes thousands when news picks it up. Go hard man. Destroy them in every way you legally and ethically can. DESTROY THESE WHORES.

I didn't have a job offer lined up. You're right, I need this shit cleared and out of the way asap. To echo what other commenters have been saying, you're right, this is all out war. I'm still looking for a way to destroy them. I think I can claim something along the lines of having my graduation walk taken from me if I am cleared.

(04-26-2017 04:25 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 03:50 PM)Steelex Wrote:  

Merenguero,

You seem knowledgeable in this aspect.

It would seem to me that it would behoove the OP to threaten legal action against the girls or the university if the sexual assault charge results in him not being able to complete his education, or hurts his reputation when it's not proven to be true.

Doing so would be more a matter of deterring the girls or the university from going any further with it, since in theory they don't have a leg to stand on other than he said she said type shit.

Or am i totally not on the right track.

Using threats of criminal charges to deter civil lawsuits and vice versa can get you into trouble. I don't touch that stuff and advise others to do the same. I do like that point that jetset brought up about possibly getting the girls into a civil case against the university in order to have subpoena power over records which may either be in the girls' possession or the girls would be able to obtain.

This is definitely a good idea. I want those records locked down tight.

(04-26-2017 06:02 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Relevant thread

thread-50196.html

In this case, it went to the actual police, and wasn't a college case. Still very relevant advice though.

(04-27-2017 08:34 AM)griffinmill Wrote:  

Also, please read this book:

Campus Rape Frenzy

It will give you helpful tips on how to strike back legally.

Thanks for bringing this up, I just bought it on kindle.

(04-27-2017 08:59 AM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

Advocate or advisor-? Sounds like they're secretly hoping you don't go and find an attorney and show up with one of your frat buddies. Get an attorney and put a stop to this shit. While you are at it, ask him about how to file a defamation suit against either or both of those bitches if what they say is false. Regardless of what the school does, you may still have a case if they can't back up what they claimed with actual, real evidence. Not to mention harm done to your academic (and potentially economic) career. Once they realize it will wind up in civil court they may change their tune.

I would like to know where it says in the student manual or college policies what, precisely, the details behind the made up doctrine of "more likely than not." What are the evidentiary standards? Who has the burden of proof? Is conduct off the university grounds even covered? Etc., etc. I think if either of them had a real case there would be a police report filed, but they probably both know that filing a false police report is a crime, so they'll use this kangaroo court to tar and feather you.

Without more facts it's difficult to offer more advice than get a lawyer, but really, you need to do it NOW.

You're right, I think that is what they're hoping for. The official term is adviser, which can be anyone from a Professor to a legal Attorney, to a random person. However, I've been calling lawyers all morning because no fucking way am I trusting myself to random faculty. The lawyers I've talked to so far say my case looks good from the evidence standpoint because I've come up with text and witness evidence, but 2 separate cases looks bad and is an uphill battle.

More likely than not means that there is a very low burden of proof on the accusatory side. They only need more than 50% of the evidence to make it seem like I did it to label me guilty. I think this is complete bs, and for this process I don't even get a hearing, whereas in other lesser non-Title IX cases, students are entitled to a hearing. Personally I think this is complete bs, and many of the lawyers I've called think this is also BS.

(04-26-2017 08:14 PM)Jean Valjean Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 07:36 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  

I recently ran into something similar, and from what I read, never pull the "consensual" stance, since then you've essentially admitted to engaging in whatever you've been alleged of doing. The one and only proper defense is that "it" never happened. And don't make any attempt to share your side of it with police. They're only hoping to conjure up the necessary grounds in order to make an arrest.

Yeah, if you make no statement at all, it leaves a lot of other possible explanations for the accusers' testimony. Maybe it's a case of mistaken identity, and it was actually your twin brother who banged those chicks, while you were 1,000 miles away. As far as the court knows, it's possible. As soon as you admit to even being there, you start to reduce the number of possible alternative explanations for what happened.

On the other hand, if you say, "I was 1,000 miles away," and a witness says, "No he wasn't," then they'll try to say, "Aha, we just caught him in a lie. And he had no reason to lie unless he's guilty!"

You have to be really careful what kind of evidence you present in an effort to exculpate yourself, because you can actually make it easier for them to find you guilty, by giving them a bunch of circumstantial evidence that can be used against you. This is very counterintuitive, because our whole culture teaches the opposite. From elementary school, they tell us the story of how George Washington said, "I cannot tell a lie" and admitted cutting down the cherry tree, and everything was fine because he confessed. In church, they say, "Confess your sins to the priest and you will be absolved." (So you have to say five Hail Marys; it's better than going to Hell.)

On the other hand, if your parents question you about a smashed vase and you refuse to answer, they say, "I guess you did it, then, since you're not denying it. Silence means you're guilty." It just seems like the most natural thing, then, to try to talk your way out of a rape accusation; but no matter what you say, it's worse than if you just said nothing.

I just wonder about the rules of engagement of this type of administrative trial. Are they allowed to draw an adverse inference if you plead the Fifth and refuse to answer their questions? I know that in family court it works that way.

By the way, it's not unheard of for accusers to flake out and decide not to testify, especially if they graduate and move out of the area.

A lawyer I just called showed me how when I was just telling the story I said some things that a trained officer could pick up on and twist to make me look guilty. I'm not sure what happens if I plead the fifth, because it is a college court, not a real one, but I don't think it ends well for me. However, I plan on doing that anyways until I can find a good lawyer. One of the girls is graduating, and I think she might just be bringing this up to fuck my life up for no/little reason.

[Jetset]

(04-27-2017 09:41 AM)Beowulf Wrote:  

I'm still looking for a way to destroy them. I think I can claim something along the lines of having my graduation walk taken from me if I am cleared.

Don't say anything out loud about wanting to destroy them, don't let yourself be construed as a malicious person - as utterly justified as anger is. They're the malicious party here, you're defending yourself.

As for a defamation claim, note that there is such a thing as "defamation per se", where the allegation is so terrible that damages are assumed. Falsely telling your educational institution that you forced oral sodomy upon them is likely one of those allegations, regardless of whether or not you suffer any provable loss. (Again, something for your lawyer to contemplate more than us.)

Quote:

More likely than not means that there is a very low burden of proof on the accusatory side. They only need more than 50% of the evidence to make it seem like I did it to label me guilty. I think this is complete bs, and for this process I don't even get a hearing, whereas in other lesser non-Title IX cases, students are entitled to a hearing. Personally I think this is complete bs, and many of the lawyers I've called think this is also BS.

It's absolutely BS, but "50%"/"more likely than not", a preponderance of evidence, is similar to the standard in civil court. This isn't a criminal proceeding. Your lawyer's job is to hold them rigidly to their own process and make sure all of your favorable evidence is considered and that nothing goes out there to make it worse. If they are currently sympathetic to the accusation, they'll tend to get "creative"/sloppy with their rules of evidence, etc.

Quote:

I'm not sure what happens if I plead the fifth, because it is a college court, not a real one, but I don't think it ends well for me. However, I plan on doing that anyways until I can find a good lawyer. One of the girls is graduating, and I think she might just be bringing this up to fuck my life up for no/little reason.

If you're telling us everything, they're mad for some reason you don't and probably won't understand. Maybe they've compared notes and decided that they're going to teach a "player" a lesson. Two accusers coming forward at the same time, two years later, is incredibly suspicious and I wonder if there aren't some records out there that would reveal obvious collusion. In fact, a preservation letter from your lawyer instructing them not to delete anything from their email accounts or smartphones would probably have them shitting bricks. They may think they're just playing a fun game where there are going to be no judges, no lawyers, and no police officers, or else they would have called the police themselves.

I would let your lawyer do all the thinking about your testimony. This isn't court, there is no Fifth Amendment.

[PapayaTapper]

(04-27-2017 09:41 AM)Beowulf Wrote:  

I'm not sure what happens if I plead the fifth, because it is a college court, not a real one, but I don't think it ends well for me. However, I plan on doing that anyways until I can find a good lawyer.

You dont need to plead the 5th amendment...your not under oath and not obligated to say A WORD. In fact the only words you should be saying about this to anyone (other than your attorney) that asks are "Ask my attorney: here's his number" Period

Dont even discuss it with your friends

(04-27-2017 09:41 AM)Beowulf Wrote:  

One of the girls is graduating, and I think she might just be bringing this up to fuck my life up for no/little reason.

But...why?

These are two girls that don't know each other?

And you say you've had no contact with them for two years and now they simultaneously yet independently come forward ?

Something's missing here

[Beowulf]

(04-27-2017 10:01 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(04-27-2017 09:41 AM)Beowulf Wrote:  

I'm not sure what happens if I plead the fifth, because it is a college court, not a real one, but I don't think it ends well for me. However, I plan on doing that anyways until I can find a good lawyer.

You dont need to plead the 5th amendment...your not under oath and not obligated to say A WORD. In fact the only words you should be saying about this to anyone (other than your attorney) that asks are "Ask my attorney: here's his number" Period

Dont even discuss it with your friends

(04-27-2017 09:41 AM)Beowulf Wrote:  

One of the girls is graduating, and I think she might just be bringing this up to fuck my life up for no/little reason.

But...why?

These are two girls that don't know each other?

And you say you've had no contact with them for two years and now they simultaneously yet independently come forward ?

Something's missing here

Yes, thats why this is so upsetting. I know one of the girls is probably bringing it up because I talked to her boyfriend (which I mentioned previously), but the other one doesn't make any sense to me. A lawyer I talked to has picked up on that as well and thinks something is fishy here. However, the girl with the boyfriend has transferred, but the lapdance girl might know her bf because they are both seniors. Also there is the possibility that the girl's bf brought up these charges for her.

[This Is Trouble]

Watch what you're saying on this thread. Especially about destroying people. Don't be malicious back, as good as it makes you feel. You don't want something else coming your way because of "hate speech".

I hacked some girl's computer in college as payback once, ended up getting a call from a real detective (no charges pressed). Just keep cool, don't say shit.

Things have changed a lot in just those 5 years.

[SlickyBoy]

Two other things:

First, is this school part of the state university system? If so, that could add another wrinkle in your favor.

As a state university, they could be considered state actors. It's one thing for a private school to have its own rules, but when a state university enacts and enforces rules which violate your civil rights, you are in a much stronger bargaining position.

Ann Coulter is going through this with Cal Berkeley since they made it nigh impossible for her to speak there, essentially committing viewpoint-based discrimination, a violation of her First Amendment rights. She had to cancel the speech at the last minute once her two "conservative" sponsor groups backed out, but the damage was initiated by the state actor. I think that case has legs.

Second, even if not a state school, your school is very likely one that participates in the federal student loan program. A 1984 Supreme Court case held that a student desiring to use his GI bill at Hillsdale College could not because Hillsdale refused to comply with Title IX. This action disallowed them from being a "recipient institution" of any kind of federal money, even the GI Bill.

It's a long shot, but as a "recipient institution" your school may possibly be considered a state actor under certain circumstances.

One minute they gladly accept your borrowed federal student loans and the next, by way of a corrupt and obviously one sided "hearing" process over nothing but a naked accusation, they deprive you of your right to use it. If a school needs to comply with things like Title IX in order to be a "recipient institution," surely it isn't too much to ask they comply with things like due process, rights of the accused and every other relevant section of the constitution?

Ask your lawyer about whichever scenario applies to your school (public or private; state actor and the significance of this).

Good luck.

[serendickitous]

OP, I meant only to recommend an adjustment of posture. Above posters are right: don't outwardly demonstrate animus. Externally you are a calm MF who refers everyone to his lawyer. But this is absolute war. The Almighty Vagina has been riding the Title IX dick for so long it has gotten over-confident. There are no relationships to preserve, and sadly not even with the school in which you've invested so much. There will be collateral damage; there is no way you can let these girls walk away from this without legal blowback.

[serendickitous]

OP: Another strategy, albeit novel, would be to counter-accuse lapdance girl of sexual assault, given the nature of the sexual act and that it was uninvited. This has multiple advantages:

- The school cannot weaken your case without hurting hers. (Just imagine the smile that will cross your face when the school asks: "You waited two years?" "Yes. And think about what you just asked me.")
- It reinforces the gender equality principle, which changes the conversation and puts you on equal footing. Equal is equal, despite what Gender Theory classes promulgate. This is especially relevant because no penetration occurred.
- In weakening lapdance girl's case, you also weaken Monica Lewinski's. This is why they are jointly accusing you: one incident is isolated; two are a pattern. Knock one out and you likely obviate the other.
- It will be fun. Turn this idiotic issue on its head.

[Ironbutt62]

(04-27-2017 12:34 PM)serendickitous Wrote:  

OP: Another strategy, albeit novel, would be to counter-accuse lapdance girl of sexual assault, given the nature of the sexual act and that it was uninvited. This has multiple advantages:

- The school cannot weaken your case without hurting hers. (Just imagine the smile that will cross your face when the school asks: "You waited two years?" "Yes. And think about what you just asked me.")
- It reinforces the gender equality principle, which changes the conversation and puts you on equal footing. Equal is equal, despite what Gender Theory classes promulgate. This is especially relevant because no penetration occurred.
- In weakening lapdance girl's case, you also weaken Monica Lewinski's. This is why they are jointly accusing you: one incident is isolated; two are a pattern. Knock one out and you likely obviate the other.
- It will be fun. Turn this idiotic issue on its head.

Can he legitimately file that complaint once she has accused him?

[Jetset]

(04-27-2017 12:41 PM)Ironbutt62 Wrote:  

Can he legitimately file that complaint once she has accused him?

I'm sure he can, but I think he'd better let his lawyer speak to whether or not he should.

"She grabbed my dick and balls repeatedly against my will and I slapped her ass in a desperate bid to get her to stop" is lulzy, but depending on their rules of procedure, might just end up being used to make him look like the bad guy. His current narrative is that it was all perfectly consensual and that there are numerous witnesses to this out there.

[Geomann180]

^Yes, I think so.*

I believe that's a counterclaim.

G

*I'm not a lawyer. Lawyers here please provide clarification.

[serendickitous]

Apropos:

https://www.nationalreview.com/media/lib...kc-johnson