[Rhyme or Reason]

I’m not sure how many of you guys have ever attended “recovery” type meetings, or ever had the need. I’ve had some problems with substance abuse in the past and found myself at some of these meetings over the years. I always leveled out eventually, and never really been into “recovery” per se as I’m the pick yourself up by your bootstraps kind of guy and didn’t get much out of the whole recovery lifestyle.

One reason is it seems to be entirely populated by pussies.

Seriously, I’ve tried searching for answers on this subject but once again the RVF seems to be the only place where such a question will be actually addressed for what it is rather than dismissed. So here’s what’s on my mind:

Why are recovery meetings so feminised? Why is it all about “opening up” and “sharing feelings” and writing down a list of every one who ever “wronged” you? Why do they encourage men to embarrass themselves and contact people they haven’t seen in years whom they fucked over? (i never did any of this shit by the way).


Why do they teach people to dwell on all their problems instead of moving the fuck on with their lives?

It’s all so fucking cringey. Grown men crying. Grown men talking about emotional BS that has no bearing on them just not taking another fucking drink. People talking about how they’re “powerless” to solve their problems, and break free of their self-imposed prisons. You put yourself in this situation, YOU are the only one who can get out of it.

As far as the whole higher power thing, I am not some fedora tipping atheist so I take no issue with the belief in god as a part of the process. But saying you are powerless and that you need a higher power to keep you from another hit is just nonsensical, effeminate garbage.

All the guys in these meetings are cryers, and whiners. I hold both in very low regard. So do most people, in the real world.

I heard one guy say he was a “house husband”. That was basically the final straw for me. Yeah dude, you pop pills all day, drink to oblivion, while your wife is the bread winner, and wonder why she kicked your ass out? There are alpha ways to be a druggie believe it or not, that isn’t one of them.

To give some context I drank a bit too much over the past year and a half and decided to stop, and attended a few meetings via my health care provider, no big deal, I figured it would be better than AA meetings filled with crack heads.

The chicks that run these things are always kind of post-wall, yet well meaning. I have a theory that they all have some sort of hidden hangups about fixing up bad boys, which draws them to this profession. And they usually talk about how they were “so addicted to tobacco” as if that holds any significance to a room full of meth heads and needle junkies. Heh.


Anyway, there’s a serious dearth of masculinity in the recovery world. Perhaps an alternative to what’s out there is in order.

[Repo]

I'm sure theres a market for someone to start a real recover center geared towards giving people a kick in the ass rather than getting emotional. . . . may be something worth looking into, you could even, leverage your own personal story to promote it. As to your question, what isn't feminized these days unfortunately?

[Fortis]

Becuase it gives you the illusion of change without actually changing. Going back and apologizing feels good but doesn't change shit.

[torridon747]

I was addicted to heroin for about a year and I didn't dare even try to attend one of those recovery meeting things/programs when it came time to give it up. I had heard about them by all the junkie friends I had and it just seemed like a giant pity party and an easy place to score drugs.

Why would you want to be around a bunch of miserable drowning drug addicts and psych major dropouts who run those meetings? Sounds fucking awful to me, I don't even see the point since nobody that ever goes there seems to get clean for very long.

When you are fighting with yourself why would you want to add a 3rd-4th-5th party? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. There are struggles that a man has to go through alone. Most of the people who I met who kicked a serious drug habit/lifestyle have done so either by themselves or with the help of a very close friend or family member in almost complete isolation.

I've never met one NA success story but I tend to stay away from those types. It seems like a lifestyle to those people, like some of them are almost proud of being scumbags and mention it often. I'm even embarassed to say I did heroin for as long as I did and I don't dare tell anyone in real life and try not to bring it up unless it's on-topic.

It's no suprise to me that people who - admit to being helpless, already have self control issues, see themselves as victims in need of pity and support - act feminine. It's a very feminine way of thinking.

[Phoenix]

(04-19-2017 10:28 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

Becuase it gives you the illusion of change without actually changing. Going back and apologizing feels good but doesn't change shit.

Yeah its a terrible effect, kind of like how fatties will drink diet coke and buy "lose weight in 30 days" books -- not fundamentally to fix themselves but to alleviate the nagging feeling that they should by pretending "I am!".

Also how the hell do people get into drugs? And shit like heroin? What actually happens that can take you from being a normal person to sticking a needle full of chemicals into yourself for fun? Beyond all comprehension...

[Sonoma]

https://fee.org/articles/drug-addicts-as...al-actors/

The recovery scene is so cucked because it acts on this position that people who do drugs have no ability to control their behavior

[The Beast1]

I know a guy that went to NA. He was a fairly intelligent and very high energy guy that got addicted to all sorts of uppers and became a dealer.

He ended up having his fall from glory, got arrested but let go (no substances on him), and eventually started going to Na.

He cleaned himself up and stayed 100% clean from it. It was an impressive transition.

Though, he told me how the NA stuff works and how the whole sponsor thing was handled. I thought it was kind of weird. The way he explained it to me very much reminded me very much of the fight club's support groups.

There's a post on here about a guy who did alcohol rehab. Egad that seemed terrifying. I'm curious how other rehab programs for hard drugs work.

[realologist]

Part of the reason the recovery scene is cucked because a lot of the guys in the recovery scenes are pussies themselves.

They don't handle their responsibilities and problems direct and head on so they hide in drugs. Many have great plans for when they come out of a recovery program or jail but fail to stick to it or just want to plain use again.

Some are very good people but for the most part they are not. The main way it can be turned around is taking responsibility for their own sobriety and taking action.

NA and AA specifically both a substitution to the addiction because they trade the drug for AA. They take advantage of what a good support system can provide but it's implemented wrong most of the time.

[Jean Valjean]

The all-men AA groups I've been in weren't so bad. There was a masculine sense of purpose in overcoming weakness with the help of non-drinking friends. The topic of the meeting (e.g. one of the 12 steps or 12 principles) would be announced at the beginning, and the men made sure the anecdotes they shared were on-topic and gave insight into the practical application and reasons for the steps and principles.

I didn't like NA so much. It tended to be dominated more by women who rambled on aimlessly. Also, 90% of the people there were under court order to attend, in contrast to AA, where I was usually the only court-ordered participant. (The AA guys pretty much knew I had every intention of going back to using at the first opportunity, so they tended to give me the cold shoulder more; but I still preferred AA, till the issue became moot once I figured out I could just fabricate/forge/falsify my reports of attendance instead of actually going.)

To the extent that a recovery group is Christianity-based, it will tend to be cucked because most Christian churches are cucked these days.

[Kona]

I sort of work at a veterans housing/crisis center. They have a "housing first" policy, which is complete bullshit.

Basically what that means is just get the veterans off the street, then deal with their problems. These guys are just allowed to get fucked up on anything you can think of all day long. Its a joke.

A while back, they closed the na/aa meetings to the public because some "13th Steppers" were prowling around. These people are apparently becoming popular in the recovery world.

These are gays that cruise from meeting to meeting looking for vulnerable men to give blowjobs or assfuck. They hear about someone's problems, then after the meeting say " hey I got some meth/booze/heroin, let's party"

Thus, you get people in these meetings that are just making up everything they say.

The whole system needs to be reworked.

Aloha!

[Simeon_Strangelight]

That is what behaviorist Allen Carr said so himself.

He came up with the best program of quitting smoking.

When he looking into the process of alcohol addiction especially at organisations like AA, he found them severely lacking.

In my own opinion it is a mixture of several things:

The good stuff:
+ group therapy can be good
+ constant meetings can be good
+ taking it one day after another is good
+ assistance by others is good

However the bad:
+ AA and other organisations tell you that you are a powerless victim
+ they tell you that you cannot and will not ever control your alcohol and are bound to drop into a bottomless pit as soon as you drink one bit - this is not true - there were studies done on non-AA therapies where folk were told that they can resist and even become casual drinkers again if they don't believe that they instantly are powerless after one drop of alcohol
+ Blue Pill mindset is prevalent and taught there
+ current psychoanalysis bases on baring your everything to a group, but what they miss in that environment is that this is only useful under specific circumstances - for example when the group is aware enough, consists of friends, has a right and positive viewpoint about you and can also add in constructive criticism - otherwise baring your all would not help much

So in my opinion one of the more alternative groups would be more helpful. Anyone claiming that you are a victim, powerless, remain an addict or alcoholic forever - well they are wrong. In addition you have the problem of this feminized Blue Pill therapy perception which is even more infuriating. I have never been to those groups or even in therapy. But I have friends who did and what they tell me and what I read at DeliciousTacos is enough. Also I read the books by Carr and some studies on AA and their mindset. Whenever I also see a friend start going to a conventional therapist, then he becomes more of a Blue Pill pussy and that is no coincidence.

There should be Red Pill therapies for masculine men out there.

[Repo]

Breaking bad on acceptance:

[/php]

[monster]

Recovery groups are not nearly as bad as you make them out to be. If some people need them to stay sober and live healty, good on them! If they don't then just don't attend. No reason to talk shit about something that does indeed work for quite a number of people. And for many people it doesn't work, but just let it be - it's doing a lot more good than harm!

If nothing else, the stories people share are very helpful. Some druggies/alcoholics stories are a fucking nightmare of violence, drugs, rape, prison, etc. When you hear them, it's important to think, "you know, that could be me if I continue this." And it scares the shit out of you. Because the worst part about those stories is the people usually are not bad people, and the times they got in trouble are seemingly random except for the common denominator of drugs/alcohol. And it really could be you.

So yeah, stories are helpful as a warning. And to hear the shame in people's voices, and hear how sad they are, and how much they regret, and self-anger, - well it makes for a very powerful message.

[Vaun]

I think its a few things.

First off, religion. These people think a fairy angel is going to make everything right in their lives. Without admitting that they are actually at fault, or have the willpower or inner strength to do it themselves. They say stuff like "its all a part of God's plan", or some other non-sensical bullshit like that. Then the purveyors of the meeting, i.e. AA, can push the religion thing like a church. The whole spiritual/religious aspect is really a scam mainly targeted towards women(throughout history), to extract money from them. Much like a cult, but more acceptable because its Jesus and not David Koresh.

Secondly, claiming substance abuse is a disease. Along with religion, this is the other major flaw in these groups. Instead of owning up to their problems, they claim "its hereditary" or "its a disease." Yeah right, really.

Lastly, there are a lot of masculine men in therapy and counseling. Robert Glover is a good place to start. David Deida, and many others. Maybe you haven't found any yet.

Is it good to deal with your problems with a professional? Yes. But I would seek 1:1 therapy, with a psychiatrist, or a counselor that understands mens issues. They are a hard to seek out, but once you do, they are great to work with. Sitting around in a group listening to people that annoy you is unproductive. I know because I tried it too and could hardly sit there with my mouth shut while someone rambled on for 20 minutes about how the world conspired to screw them over.

[BlackFriar]

I can attest to the cry baby men that do not take responsibilty for their actions.

One of the guys I work with got kicked out of AA, because he was fucking the women in the support group. He told me the easiest places to get pussy was to go to rehab meetings.

So, I read online and found the local sex/love addicts anonymous meeting. (I figured there would be some borderline reforming sluts in there.) Man was I wrong!

All dudes, most coming out of the closet homos...couple guys addicted to internet porn. All of them complained about having dominant fathers that wanted them to be more masculine and put too much pressure on them, to be a man. ;'(

I sat through it and thought to myself: these dudes are gas as fuck! (And theye were, literally!)