[questor70]

I want to preface this by saying this thread is not intended to be advice on how to game, nor a desire to seek validation. I am aware that what I'm doing here is omega behavior, and I'm prepared to get mocked and ball-busted. What I'm doing is NOT something I'm suggesting, but for the moment I am finding it entertaining (and educational). I'm sharing it here because there's so much stigma involved that I have nobody else to share it with. So I'm hoping it might provide some cheap popcorn entertainment and be a jumping off point for discussion here.

I was an awkward nerd growing up and right around when I hit puberty, VCRs and video rentals were coming of age. I quickly clutched at porn as an escape-valve to maintain my sanity. Yes, it was a crutch, and if I could go back in time again and use the knowledge I know now, but have my youth back, things would have turned out differently. But where I am now, I'm in my mid 40s as a single father with full custody, rapidly thinning hair and about 40-50 pounds overweight. The only two points of leverage I have are money (beta bux) and expert sexual technique (if they can get over the package it comes in). So I'm procrastinating from facing the uphill battle of killing myself at the gym and pulling out my checkbook for hair-plugs by using the online dating sites sort of like scratching lottery tickets. Predictably, water is seeking its own level as the type of women who are contacting me are maxing out at HB4. If they're higher, like on Bumble, then the conversation just dead-ends, signifying they found a hotter guy to focus on.

I found out about Chaturbate from the ReturnOfKings article on it. I had never done the cam thing before because I thought it was really expensive and involved one-on-one video-to-video chat. So the idea that you could just camp out there for free was mind-blowing. I had to just go there and see for myself what it was like....

While porn is addicting enough, cam sites are worse because of the voyeuristic aspect and the lack of fast-forward or rewind. I've since learned how to "DVR" cam channels but even then, it still has a live sporting-event sort of feeling, which is more like what it's like being with a live unpredictable woman in the first place. To say it can be a time-suck is an understatement.

Anyway, over the first week I scanned through all the girls in order to sort out my favorites. I resolved never to pay, but I just became too impatient. Some of the hottest chicks (in my eyes) don't have a lot of followers. So if I wanted to see them strip, rather than waiting and praying for someone else to tip them, I had to just pony up and buy tokens.

At first my jaw was on the floor over freaks of nature that can sit there legs spread for hours at a clip, just an endless stream of quivering multiple-orgasms. If there's anything this is teaching me is that women's capacity for sex is endless and that this must play a role in female infidelity.

Anyway as Roosh said, hedonic adaptation is a bitch. After having passed through the shock-and-awe stage, I no longer gravitated towards the freaks of nature and started exploring the back-alleys. My "type" is the girl-next-door type, not the whore. I realize that appearances lie, but going based on looks alone, I set my sights on one in particular who rarely had more than 50 guys in her room. She'd smile and sway back and forth like a songbird miming to the words of the songs. Despite how degrading the things she was asked to do, she did them with this look of innocence and joy on her face. Acting performance it may have been, but if I was gonna hang out there, I wanted to see THAT.

Anyway, by this time I was spending tokens and I got to the PM stage with her. My instinct is always to fall into beta-orbiter emotional tampon mode, so the discussion quickly moved into personal territory and she started to open up. Now, whether what she said was actually true or not is another matter.

-She said she didn't have a boyfriend, but the one she had before beat her.
-She said love no longer had any meaning to her.
-She said she does the work to pay for rent on an apartment with the rest of her family.
-She says she has no other job and no other promising career prospects.

And after I joined her fan club she said I was the first and only.

Anyway, I started coaching her on how to maybe up her followers and since I couldn't get a really good look at her I even said I'd buy her a better webcam. So it was kind of benign self-interest on my part. Anyway, she says she doesn't have an Amazon account (to set up a wishlist) and she gives me her Whatsapp info. So I'm thinking now (this shit's getting real).

We're starting to chat and exchange photos on Whatsapp. I have only revealed my first name and the region I live in, no photos of me or anything more specific. She has sent me photos of her neighborhood (in Ukraine) and her with her mom and a friend. She knows I'm old enough to be her father and that I have a teenaged daughter.

She wrote a wall of text last night about how her dad left her as a toddler and her mom toiled away to raise her.

Of course, I'm already wondering what the endgame of all this is. I've done some googling and mining through the Roosh forums on this topic, and I am aware that there is a "long con" that can take place in situations like this for green-cards or other sugar-daddy style favors. I was willing to chip in for the webcam just to get better views of her, which to her is a nice gesture but to me is still perpetuating her exploitation. When it comes to the penpal thing, though, I don't know where this is going to lead...

The voyeuristic thrill of seeing her naked and not having to expose what I look like is really not that different from the chatting we're falling into. It's sort of an emotional voyeurism in the sense that she's stripping herself naked emotionally, like what people normally only do with close friends or their therapist. I had an older woman as a snail-mail penpal back in high school and I know what that dynamic is like. The fact you're communicating with someone you're unlikely to meet becomes sort of liberating in a way. But I also realized that any catching of feelings is probably an illusion.

That being said, there's a part of me that wants to let this social experiment run its course just to see what happens, which is kind of not a nice move on my part. Assuming she isn't running a "long con", she's potentially going to invest a lot of her free time chatting with me. At her age I guess she has time to kill. On my part, if I have any say on the matter I'll eventually get another relationship going. It's only a matter of time, and if I keep this camgirl as a penpal it's gonna be a little weird.

I guess when you get to be my age you start to see options permanently close off on you, so getting any sort of one-on-one attention from a woman who (other than what she does for a living--a pretty huge asterisk) would have been a wet-dream is hard to resist, even though it can't be consummated. It exploits all of my weaknesses just as it may for her as well (as someone with typical daddy issues).

Anyway, like I said, I pretty much know the replies I'll get on this... I get it. AWALT, and Chaturbate is sort of sexual junkfood and this Whatsapp thing is like emotional junkfood. But I like to hear personal stories here, even stories of epic personal failures (as cautionary tales) so maybe some will think this thread is wortwhile.

Note: It's REALLY tempting to post photos of her but there are only so many camgirls on Chaturbate (from Ukraine) so it would be easy to link the photo up to her channel and potentially "contaminate" the experiment. As this story unfolds I will share what I can while maintaining mutual anonymity.

Reports from the field of those who have gone down this shady pathway are welcome.

[Latan]

OP, how about you hit the gym and approach young women in your area?
You seem to be suffering from extreme thirst.

[Le Siamois]

You're wasting your time, old man. Instead of listening to sobbing stories from a girl who lives 6000 miles away from you, focus on building your own personal epic story.

[Hoser]

A fascinating and curiously well-written story. Subbed.

OP, I appreciate your transparency. I hope you will continue to stay transparent with us. In fact, sharing your story here, and ignoring the detractors you know are coming, may be the thing that helps you navigate these troubled waters.

That said, these are indeed choppy waves. I doubt anything good can come from this, other than a painful red pill story filled with regret.

Feeling appreciated by a girl you have a crush on is dangerous. You've already given her power over you, even if that power is merely to feel like you could somehow become her savior.

What can come of this? What, in your mind, is the best case outcome? What is the worst? Is either worth the risk? Ponder these things.

All the best to ya.

[questor70]

Well, I knew posting this thread may have been premature, as she didn't chat me today. She has really weird hours. When she last chatted me yesterday it was 1:30AM in Ukraine. I have to assume by then she was in bed. As pathetic as it is, there's a certain excitement in feeling important enough to be the recipient of personal texts by an HB10 in bed halfway around the world. But maybe this is gonna be over before it begins. Too early to say.

After I saw her photos out and about the town, she really does not look as hard up for cash as she says. She may very well be playing from a textbook. However, given that she only has an average of about 30 people in her room each night, it's conceivable that I really am her first fan club member and the first guy she's moved off to Whatsapp.

Again, assuming what she's sharing (including her real name) is genuine, I'm losing interest in coming to her channel and to her, let alone buying her a better camera just so she can more effectively sell her body in what she already says is a dead-end job with no escape-plan.

So sooner or later I'm going to have to give her a Captain Save-a-hoe wall-of-text.

I have to admit I'm feeling more and more like Anthony Perkins in Crimes of Passion.




--------------------------------------

My biggest problem, which goes above and beyond basic "thirst" is that my life in general is just boring. Taking a trip down a sleazy dark alley at least gives me a thrill that I can't experience in my day-to-day life as the doting single father.

If I try to date my peers you're talking chubby haus fraus. If I go a little younger, their biological clocks are pounding for sperm-donors. If I go younger still they'll call me a dirty old man. So it's hard to figure out where I can find an exciting niche.

This is why I posted the thread about bohemian chicks. I want something unique or edgy about them otherwise it's too dull. But of course, then you can't take them home to meet mom, so it's a catch-22.

[Remington]

[Hoser]

Again, awesome documentation, Questor. I joined RVF to have a bevy of men to bounce ides off of. Seems you're getting some value from the same. Keep us posted on what you do, or don't.

[Turnus]

You need to give this up. I'm in the exact same position as you. Mid 40's, divorced, custody of the kids, and need to lose some weight. You know what I'm doing that's different than you? I'm meeting women half my age in real life. I'm having fun enjoying their company. Yes, the online dating sucks, but there are ways to improve your matches online. Do even better and meet women in real life. Instead of spending all the time your wasting on a cam girl, spend it on yourself. Reading, working out, focusing on your kids, etc. Your too invested in this girl half way around the world

[crudeloyalist]

Interesting read. I also appreciate your honesty and openness with this.

As a random person on the internet, I would encourage you to explore this further and relay things to us as they happen, mainly for entertainment value.

If you were a friend in the real world, I'd put you on blast and tell you to sort your shit out. You know that this will only end badly if you continue to indulge further.

[Gorgiass]

(03-19-2017 03:22 PM)Le Siamois Wrote:  

You're wasting your time, old man. Instead of listening to sobbing stories from a girl who lives 6000 miles away from you, focus on building your own personal epic story.

How about holding off on the ageist slurs there, young buck. You're going to be an "old man" yourself someday, and it's only through the willingness of people sharing their stories like this one, in forums like this one, that you might find yourself in a better place when you are.

OP, I also applaud your honesty. There are plenty of highly repped members who are shoring in Asia and don't catch flack for it, but of course they're getting laid out of the deal. Porn is a waste of time and energy, take the time you spend fapping and spend it in the gym and other avenues of self-improvement so if you do eventually meet this girl or one like her you'll have a shot at keeping her around.

What is your end game? Fly over and meet her someday, and maybe fly her back? What's your plan when she tells you she needs money to pay for her family's rent and other expenses back home then? How much money are you prepared to kick in to bang your 10?

It's easy to tell you to hit the gym, learn game and start approaching these girls in real life, less easy for you to actually do any of these things and deal with the brutal rejections that are sure to come from more girls than not. If it was easy everyone would be doing it though. You're trying to take the easy way out, and if you do you're going to get what you pay for - a girl who may be hot but is also low quality, and unlikely to be LTR material. If you just want one last hurrah with a hot piece of ass though at least it's going to be more satisfying than buying a whore, and if you can afford it and manage the risks properly, then why not?

PS, PM me a pic of this unicorn, promise I won't jerk off to it...much.

[dongiovanni]

You could be her cam daddy, it can be fulfilling. Do that and the gym to build you confidence before taking on the real world perhaps.

[Vill@in]

OP, "If it's too good to be true, it usually is". As we get older and hear all of these cliché phrases, we realize they are phrases for a reason. This is no different.

You call this an 'experiment' but I think you're just saying that to yourself to fuel your hamster. You're horny and she's hot. There is no shame in that. However she's from the Ukraine and more than likely is just wanting your money. C'mon...you know this deep down. Snap out of it before you become too financially invested.

Quote:

I guess when you get to be my age you start to see options permanently close off on you

Door are shutting because you are letting them shut. Bust those fuckers down. You know the best way to do this. Go to the gym and lose those 50 extra lbs. No one is going to do it for you, take action and do it yourself. The hardest part of going to the gym is...going to the gym. Don't be in your mid 50's and think "I should have went to the gym 10 years ago". That extra 50 lbs. will be an extra 100 lbs. by then.

[Skank_Hunt]

It would be pretty cool if you banged a hot girl off chaturbate, because I've never heard of anyone doing that before. It's a cam site where presumably cockteases get naked in exchange for money from very thirsty men. With all the free porn out there your thirst must be off the charts to pay for cam girls. Or maybe it's a different thrill I can't quite relate to, perhaps because it's live or something.

A good compromise would be to get in the gym, visit her country for a while to try to bang other girls but also set up a meet with her. If you don't bang her, you try to bang many other chicks.

As others have said it would make a great story, you could even write a book, "Bang Chaturbate", but if you were my friend in real life I would tell you more along the lines of the brutally honest advice already given on this thread.

[Ethan Hunt]

(03-20-2017 03:13 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  

As others have said it would make a great story, you could even write a book, "Bang Chaturbate", but if you were my friend in real life I would tell you more along the lines of the brutally honest advice already given on this thread.

Easy, best, most profitable away etc would be to set up base near a college campus and put up posters/adverts for commission based based modelling job.

Shortlist to the sluttiest sexiest and set them up on a cam and your desired location, try get her to fuck her friends on cam and receive the money before charging them deductibles such as use of location, toys, equipment, security and your cut etc etc.

Having all the leverage you can fuck if you want to but don't get too attach to a bitch in your stable.

Ethical? No
Legal? Probably. Technically pimping but no different from making porn right?

You could make some easy money if your got the start up capital to get the project off the ground.

What you need.

A largish detached house off campus. Rented of course
5-10 high quality computers
Stable internet connection


I used to live next door to this dude, he was a shark so I do believe his story. He was in uni and bought him self a near new Mercedes convertible. He met this Italian au pair on a night and and realise she was damn slutty as fuck. He drove her ass to a nearby strip club, got her a job and was collecting her wages all nights long before paying her back. He was essentially charges her security and rides. I don't know if his story was true but when I was in that club with him one evening he knew a lot of the dancers there.

[PapayaTapper]

OP Two recommendations

1. Get yourself over to the Older Guys (40+) thread and read it in it's entirety. You will find actionable solutions, and a better mindset to replace your excuses and defeatism

2. Stop for the love of God posting your horrendous "advice" in any game thread. You clearly have none and are eminently unqualified to advise young men

It's not my intention to be overly harsh but but if I saw a blind man trying to drive a bus full of people I'd do the same thing

[RatInTheWoods]

Mate pull the pin on that shit.

Lose some weight, get in shape, and start chasing real women.

[Mercenary]

(03-19-2017 11:20 AM)questor70 Wrote:  

She knows I'm old enough to be her father and that I have a teenaged daughter.

I find this simple fact very unnerving.

If your own daughter was 18 or older and you found out she was secretly doing the same exact thing this girl in Ukraine is doing - what course of action would you as a father take, to fix the situation ?

[Nordwand]

OP,

This can only end badly. Only one person is being played here, and it isn't her - what the English call The Long Game is real and these women are good at it.

[Jetset]

(03-19-2017 11:20 AM)questor70 Wrote:  

Of course, I'm already wondering what the endgame of all this is. I've done some googling and mining through the Roosh forums on this topic, and I am aware that there is a "long con" that can take place in situations like this for green-cards or other sugar-daddy style favors. I was willing to chip in for the webcam just to get better views of her, which to her is a nice gesture but to me is still perpetuating her exploitation. When it comes to the penpal thing, though, I don't know where this is going to lead...

The voyeuristic thrill of seeing her naked and not having to expose what I look like is really not that different from the chatting we're falling into. It's sort of an emotional voyeurism in the sense that she's stripping herself naked emotionally, like what people normally only do with close friends or their therapist.

You're avoiding the elephant in the room, which is that she isn't "stripping herself emotionally naked", you are. She is using the same material as every other stripper in the world to take advantage of you and I feel like you're taking it far, far too seriously.

[Cobra]

I'm also not trying to be harsh OP, but a Camgirl???

The reason you met her in the first place is because of a lack of social calibration and ability to approach women in person. The great thing is that you can change both of these things so you don't have to be a schmuck that this girl will likely use and throw away (high likelihood by the way).

Here's my advice, some of it already said. Get a gym membership, go to the gym, approach women in person, dress better, be more social, do more things out of the house away from "cams." Try this for a month and report back.

For more accountability from us, start a self improvement thread in the newbie section if you like and we can help you more.

[Turnus]

Any update OP?

[Hoser]

OP, it does seem like many people here want to offer sincere advice / help. There's strength in numbers. I believe you'll get plenty of good advice if you share. Just brace yourself in advance for those who can't control themselves, and you'll be fine.

[Robtormar]

OP man. Don't do this to yourself dawg. It seems to me like you're getting some sort of emotional release/complex with this girl. Like most of the advice given, invest in your physical fitness. Hire a 1on1 dietician that can put you on a diet and monitor you ( will help you lose the weight faster ). Hire a GOOD personal trainer if you're new into fitness and read up on fashion if you feel like you're lacking style. You're in your mid 40s man, that is not an old age at all. So delete this girl from your life and go bang fresh poon while your dick can still get hard. Sincere advice man, what you're doing to yourself is destructive. Take care

[questor70]

Because of the new warning I have not been able to post replies to this thread until now. I have taken time to read through these replies, though. I've also had a handful of PM discussions.

All I can say is that it's a deliberately reckless stunt that I'm doing to inject some excitement into my life. It wouldn't have the appeal it does if it were not reckless. I'm not going to deny that many of you don't see the appeal--but everybody's idea of what's exciting or a valid use of your free time is different. To each his own. All I said in the OP is it might provide some cheap entertainment. Nothing more, nothing less.

I do kind of regret starting the thread, though, because it's something I really should have kept on the down-low. I guess because this is so discrete it didn't really feel like it's happening unless I shared it, but I don't think it's right for me to post a lot of detail up on a public thread that anybody on the internet can read.

In addition, the warnings have made me really gunshy about posting in general.

Those who wanted to follow this story the most have already PMed me about this and are free to continue to nudge me for updates.

[Cobra]

So OP started a thread to get advice on pay to play. Forum advises him pay to play is not the way to go and offer alternate solutions. Doesn't like the advice he gets because it's not what he wants to hear. Regrets starting the thread. Goes back to pay 2 play.