[Huey]

delete

[cawa:]

(03-23-2017 08:37 PM)Huey Wrote:  

Oh no! A psychologist -- with a history of depression in his family -- suffering from a common mood disorder! What a fraud!

you are twisting my words.

as stated, i have ZERO problem with people having history of depression.

i have a HUGE problem with putting young adults on anti-depressants [most likely ssr's] - WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY before other softer, gentler and simply BETTER avenues are exhausted.

[Huey]

(03-23-2017 08:55 PM)cawa: Wrote:  

you are twisting my words.

as stated, i have ZERO problem with people having history of depression.

i have a HUGE problem with putting young adults on anti-depressants [most likely ssr's] - WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY before other softer, gentler and simply BETTER avenues are exhausted.

I agree but you're making the assumption that Peterson and his daughter didn't try traditional therapeutic methods before getting on anti-depressants. As a clinical psychologist, I'm sure Peterson is well aware of the effects of anti-depressants and its effectiveness compared with a more traditional therapeutic method like CBT. In fact, I don't think any competent clinical psychologist would recommend a patient take anti-depressants before trying other therapeutic methods. No amount of CBT can help with someone with really severe depression (which I'm guessing Peterson and his daughter had), and there are a lot of studies showing this. In these cases, anti-depressants are often more effective than traditional therapeutic methods. (It's even more effective in combination with something else like CBT)

[amity]

Peterson's daughter...she's not bad... WYB?
Out of respect for JBP, I would probably ask the great man's permission first, but would then bang with great fervour, also it's rumoured that man juice has anti-depressant qualities so it would be win win!

[cawa:]

(03-23-2017 09:19 PM)Huey Wrote:  

No amount of CBT can help with someone with really severe depression

this is ABSOLUTELY true, but CBT is a REALLY weak modality - not because proper psycho-spiritual therapy can't address severe depression.

if anyone wants to learn CBT for themselves, pick up a used copy of "feeling good" by berns and read the chapter on the 10 most common cognitive distortions. you'll be able to run cbt on yourself in no time.

[debeguiled]

(03-23-2017 08:14 PM)Grodin Wrote:  

There were a lot of ideas that jumped out at me from his Rogan podcast, that I've been meaning to come back to it and take notes. I went in expecting mostly another rant about SJW but Peterson went way deeper than that. A few things I recall:

- Peterson talked about the idea of "self-authoring" and some executive skills type classes taught at Rotterdam School of Management. He mentioned he's built some curriculum to teach these to younger men and boiled some of it down to a web based training he's packaged on his website. On my list to check that out

- Also talked about and promoted the need for an alternative to the current state of the university system. YES! It seems insurmountable at the moment but I hope more people get on this train. It's gotten so bad that I am anguishing over the thought of sending my kids to college, even as much as I value education. It's not just the SJW and social engineering aspect, although that is large, I'm also starting to doubt it's value from a simple cost benefit perspective. Prices are getting way out of hand, and the value has been dropping due to all these distractions from... education. That should be the primary focus, it no longer is.

Yeah, that is why he resonates with so many people. At the time of the Joe Rogan podcast, and later on the Bryan Callen podcast, his self authoring program was being offered free, with the intention of helping Millenials learn about themselves before they go out and try to change the world.

So he wasn't trying to make a buck from it, he was genuinely trying to use what he had learned to help other people, and that is the sort of integrity he shows that resonates with so many people.

There was a moment, and I don't remember now if it was on the Rogan or Callen podcast, where the interviewer asked him what he thought young people should do in the current political climate.

I thought for sure that he would say something like, get involved, or fight for free speech.

Instead, he said, fix yourself. Learn about yourself. Figure it out. Then go out and change the world.

This got the host of the podcast so exhilarated, and me too, to be honest, because it was the opposite of self serving, and showed a real concern for and interest in the future and young people.

It is no wonder why so many people are enthusiastic about him right now.

By the way, he just did an AMA over at reddit.com:


https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/6...professor/

[debeguiled]

[Sombro]

   

[Reaper]

Bump.

[xmlenigma]

(03-23-2017 08:37 PM)Huey Wrote:  

(03-23-2017 05:47 PM)cawa: Wrote:  

also note that four years ago peterson and his daughter were on the tv talking about their family history of depression.

i have no problem with that - we all have familiar histories/roots - but the fact that his [a CLINICAL psychologist] college-aged daughter was ALREADY on ANTI-DEPRESSANTS makes me questions how well-embodies his body of knowledge/wisdom is.

Oh no! A psychologist -- with a history of depression in his family -- suffering from a common mood disorder! What a fraud!


Here's the video in question he's referring to, for anyone curious

This does take away some points from him, but frankly - given western medical & mind-body understanding I'd say thats all they know..

But frankly, I am not interested in him or his talks on account of his personal life, but that he provides calm, articulate and logical arguments and discussion for scenarios and points out to underlying causations as well as flaws... and so on.

He is quite logically cognitively aware.. which allows him to disconnect and dive deeper.. But, I wish they both had leveraged healthier food/ diet & yoga/ meditation and increased their Prana/ higher prana out of depression etc.

So, his ability to implement a solution to his own / daughers life is a little in doubt, but his arguments and reasoning are on dot. That doesnt make him a great project / program executor, but one can bank on his aware thinking - But thats why he is a researcher/ professor / teacher..

[Genghis Khan]

(04-04-2017 04:00 PM)xmlenigma Wrote:  

(03-23-2017 08:37 PM)Huey Wrote:  

(03-23-2017 05:47 PM)cawa: Wrote:  

also note that four years ago peterson and his daughter were on the tv talking about their family history of depression.

i have no problem with that - we all have familiar histories/roots - but the fact that his [a CLINICAL psychologist] college-aged daughter was ALREADY on ANTI-DEPRESSANTS makes me questions how well-embodies his body of knowledge/wisdom is.

Oh no! A psychologist -- with a history of depression in his family -- suffering from a common mood disorder! What a fraud!


Here's the video in question he's referring to, for anyone curious

This does take away some points from him, but frankly - given western medical & mind-body understanding I'd say thats all they know..

But frankly, I am not interested in him or his talks on account of his personal life, but that he provides calm, articulate and logical arguments and discussion for scenarios and points out to underlying causations as well as flaws... and so on.

He is quite logically cognitively aware.. which allows him to disconnect and dive deeper.. But, I wish they both had leveraged healthier food/ diet & yoga/ meditation and increased their Prana/ higher prana out of depression etc.

So, his ability to implement a solution to his own / daughers life is a little in doubt, but his arguments and reasoning are on dot. That doesnt make him a great project / program executor, but one can bank on his aware thinking - But thats why he is a researcher/ professor / teacher..

I don't blame him at all for being skeptical of diet-based treatments for severe depression.

In that video, he and his daughter explained she would cry every morning and sleep 16 hours a day. That sounds like very severe depression. SSRIs at least did a good job of making her life functional. And in her case, that's the most important thing to have for a young child: a functional life - so she could go to school, socialize and have a somewhat normal childhood.

If I was a parent and given the choice between
a) SSRIs, which are known to work (at least in terms of making someone a functional human being again)
b) trying out possible miracle cures with very little data from well-structured studies,
I'd take the SSRIs any day.

I don't think we can underestimate the damage that can happen by trying to experiment with untested solutions for years. It's really no joke being several years older than everyone else in your grade because your parents decided to try something unknown instead of going for SSRIs and you couldn't function for years on end because they didn't want you to take drugs.

As for healthier diets, yoga, meditation etc - I'm a big proponent of them. But sadly, the body-mind connection has historically been appropriated by crazy hippies in the West. I've met a bunch of modern day hippies (in Boulder, CO). And they're such losers in life. You can instinctively tell they never succeeded in school or work. I got a very bad vibe from them. And it's because they're such losers in life that very few people took them seriously when it came to the good stuff, especially since mixed in are superstitions like healin crystals.

The New Age movement has ironically been the biggest detriment towards closing the chasm between modern scientific thinking and ancestral wisdom. Fortunately, we're moving towards re-discovering a lot of ancestral wisdom. And I actually applaud Dr. Peterson for going on TV and effectively admitting he was wrong about distrusting diet-based solutions to depression. If anything, having intellectual heavyweights like himself say: "we tried SSRIs, it worked OK. Then we tried the elimination diet and it worked miracles" probably does more to highlighting the body-mind connection than anything the new age people have ever done.

[Sooth]

I posted this on one of the other threads but since this appears to be the main one I'll dump here too.

I love this man so much.

He is speaking a flavor of truth that has not been heard for a very long time. He's picking up a lot of young men who are lost and redpilling them through alternative methods.

He has struggled through some of the heaviest philosophical questions that you can ever ask, studied in depth the atrocities of soviet and nazi mass murder, suffered terribly from clinical depression, and unlike most of today's scientists and philosophers has concluded that god is not dead, and your life is the most important and meaningful thing you can imagine.

For a bunch of young guys out there who are on the edge of giving up hope he is a beacon of light that is offering an alternative path to meaning in life other than the materialistic egocentric bullshit that comes out of Marxist infested culture today.

His number one point is if you want to change the world, start by changing yourself. And that aligns perfectly with what we would know as "self improvement". You could look at it as the game blogs and forums teach you how to sort out your physical life and Jordan teaches you how to sort out your inner life.

I think if you can align your mind, body, spirit and actions so they are all on the same trajectory you become someone who is almost unstoppable.

[great white]

(04-04-2017 04:00 PM)xmlenigma Wrote:  

This does take away some points from him, but frankly - given western medical & mind-body understanding I'd say thats all they know..

could you summarize the video? it's a little too long for my tastes.

Quote:

But frankly, I am not interested in him or his talks on account of his personal life, but that he provides calm, articulate and logical arguments and discussion for scenarios and points out to underlying causations as well as flaws... and so on.

He is quite logically cognitively aware.. which allows him to disconnect and dive deeper.. But, I wish they both had leveraged healthier food/ diet & yoga/ meditation and increased their Prana/ higher prana out of depression etc.

in his later videos on this topic he actually talks about importance of diet/gut flora for dealing with depression. but i did NEVER heard him talk about yoga/exercise as a way to address depression.

WTF is meditation? honest question.

Quote:

So, his ability to implement a solution to his own / daughers life is a little in doubt, but his arguments and reasoning are on dot. That doesnt make him a great project / program executor, but one can bank on his aware thinking - But thats why he is a researcher/ professor / teacher..

but any kind of disembodied thinking is simply DANGEROUS and can be EASILY misapplied. see marx's theories until lenin introduced nep.

edit: i am not saying his teachings are false. what i am saying is that one has to approach them with great care given his family history/etc.

[3extra]

(04-05-2017 03:44 AM)Sooth Wrote:  

His number one point is if you want to change the world, start by changing yourself. And that aligns perfectly with what we would know as "self improvement". You could look at it as the game blogs and forums teach you how to sort out your physical life and Jordan teaches you how to sort out your inner life.

I think if you can align your mind, body, spirit and actions so they are all on the same trajectory you become someone who is almost unstoppable.

"Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one" - Marcus Aurelius

[debeguiled]

So, for the first time in his life, and coincidentally right after he said he wouldn't use fake pronouns, Jordan Peterson has failed to get a grant to fund his research, most of which, he says, goes to paying his grad students:

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/04/03/pet...-torpedoed

Quote:

Controversial University of Toronto professor Jordan Peterson has had his request for research grant funding torpedoed — and he’s warning the process is becoming “politicized.”

So, Rebel Media set up a crowd funding site for him:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/suppo...ch-media#/

Quote:

Professor Jordan Peterson at the University of Toronto — the professor who has been fighting so valiantly for free speech and academic freedom, and against political correctness — has had his scholarly funding cut off. His grant application to continue his academic research was rejected, for the first time in his career.

So we're going to raise his research funding for him!

100% of net proceeds will go to this research project.

So in one day, they raised over 80 k, which will fund his research for a year, and now they are planning on spending the second day funding the next year:

Quote:

UPDATE: Year-one fundraising achieved!
Let's try and raise the $82,325 funding for year two.


Dr. Peterson wanted to continue his work (1) analyzing and measuring personality scientifically, (2) examining the relationship between personality and political belief (liberal, conservative and, for the first time, politically correct) and (3) assessing the impact on productivity and quality of life of self-directed writing exercises (creating and evaluating the utility of high-school student versions of the programs at http://www.selfauthoring.com, which have helped thousands of university students get better grades and stay in school -- as outlined in this NPR article.

[Kid Twist]

Awesome stuff!

[Sombro]

A 2-hour discussion with Sargon and Peterson.

Buckle in — it is a rich journey.

[griffinmill]

Had a lot of respect for this man until I saw this video. Learning of his personal experiences with psychotropic medication - and his daughter's - makes me really angry. As he is a clinical psychologist, he has obviously uncritically swallowed the myth of mental illness and the benefits of psychotropic medication as propagated by the pharmaceutical industry.

I'm not wishing to insult anyone on this forum who has taken this medication in the past, or who has suffered from depression, but these are the facts:

1) The short-term efficacy of psychotropic drugs is questionable but can be successful in some patients
2) The long-term efficacy of psychotropic drugs is non-existent, and if anything you'll deteriorate
3) In clinical studies there is a negligable benefit of psychotropic drugs compared to a placebo
4) The drug manufacturers have behaved in abhorrent ways; burying negative clinical trials, and effectively bribing the medical industry to hawk their drugs
5) The cases of mental illness have increased since the advent of psychotropic medication

You'll hear Peterson in the video suggest that taking anti-depressants is akin to taking insulin if you have diabetes. There is zero proof - ZERO PROOF - that any "mental illness" is biological in nature. The only way Peterson could make such a statement is that he - like many in his field - have been indoctrinated to believe such a thing.

[ElFlaco]

So many great Peterson videos. Starting at 1:23:00, he talks about the importance of choosing a career based on your personality and intelligence, recommending being in the upper quartile of intelligence in your industry/career.

Quote:

Most people have at least one significant weakness in their personality-intelligent makeup, and you've got to be careful not to place yourself in a position where that's gonna be a fatal flaw .. You don't want to be the stupidest guy in the room, and you probably don't want to be the smartest guy in the room, either.

This rings true to me. I've been at both ends of that spectrum.

He closes by talking about the relationship between IQ and jobs and what this means for the future. So many inconvenient truths.

[debeguiled]

^
^
Yeah, his way of connecting temperament to politics and work is so perceptive and inspiring.

[Lucky]

I highly recommend Jordan Peterson's most recent appearance on The Rubin Report.

As an atheist, this is the first time I've taken religion seriously as an adult.

Peterson claims that Western civilization rests on Judeo-Christian presuppositions. Once that religious foundation is gone-- hell awaits us.

[RawGod]

Peterson makes Molyneux look like the relative lightweight he is.

[3extra]

Jordan is back on JRE.

[Blaster]

(03-15-2017 04:36 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

(03-15-2017 03:22 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

He may be a classical liberal (in the European sense). And if he is, thank god. We need more of them in the limelight.

Anyway, besides his obvious intelligence and passion, he possess something that I did not think would be effective in the modern colosseum of culture, and that is his earnestness and gentleness.

In the other thread, Ghost Tiger and I were debating on whether or not he should crank up the rhetoric. But it seems like on the Joe Rogan podcast he just laid it all out without the usual vitriol and need to score cheap points on one's enemies. He came off as a real honest man forced into this realization.

The effect I saw on my social media from normies who rarely care about real politics was massive. People started referencing him and comparing him to the various SJWs they co-exist with (whether it was friends, media figures, professors, or co-workers). Something about Peterson's logico-moral mysticism connected with them on a major level.

He is bludgeoning the left with dialectics.

You and me brother, I was having the same debate with him. Let Jordan be Jordan, he is doing fine. And that's that.

His technique is a form of rhetoric that is worth understanding. Everything about his presentation conveys mastery, honesty, self-control, and genuine passion. That kind of skill has to come from years of practice and commitment to solid fundamental principles. Properly employed, it will make your opponents look like raving lunatics.

Quote:

Peterson makes Molyneux look like the relative lightweight he is.

Not to bash Molyneux, I still enjoy his work and he fills an important role, but I did find myself thinking the same thing.

[3extra]

Dude's got a fascinating take on life. He's a real treasure.