[TravelerKai]

^ Funny you guys mention this stuff. I used to lift with some guys that were amateur level BB that did the small shows and whatnot. They were all like me, six figure dudes with day jobs, that lifted like maniacs at night. We all had high food and supplement costs (except for the natural circuit ones), but we could afford it. Those Natural circuit guys had to pay more for doping tests if I recall correctly.

Coming from the MMA world, I know the costs of amateur and pro level training, so at the time, it never surprised me. Anytime I would ask some of them, why they would not go pro, they would laugh at me and say it wasn't worth it. Back then I just assumed that unlike MMA, where at least back then, you could do a handful of small shows a year, teach MMA or BJJ on the side, give private lessons, spar dummy for a local champ/pro, do local sponsorships (if you are a hustler), just long enough till you could get a tryout for UFC, Pride, Bellator, or small local leagues (like King of the Cage, etc).

If you keep winning, it tends to snowball and collect. In some ways it gets way worse money wise (like upgrading to a higher end camp or boxing instructor) just to stay in a certain range until you get to the next level.

What do Bodybuilders have though? They don't seem to have a UFC or small circuit where they could fight 6-10 times a year and always get a check. I'd imagine if you did not win at a show in the first 3 places, you get no money at all. At least an MMA fighter can show up, get his ass kicked, and still get a check. Might not get another fight there, but at least he got something. If you had a Forrest Griffin vs. Stefan Bonnar epic fist fight and the crowd went nuts and it got run on the internet, you could get a contract even if you lost!

Tough deal for bodybuilders to end up doing porn/escorting. That's not only disgusting, but hard to hear. Maybe just to me, because I had no idea it was anywhere near that bad.

[Fortis]

Well, a lot of the lower level guys (CT fletcher, Mike Rashid, Matt Ogus, Chris Jones) hire themselves out as "natty" trainers and make bank off of naive 16-year-olds who think they can be 6'0 250 pounds all natural at 8% body fat.

A lot of those guys mentioned above, turn up their noses at the Mr. Olympias because they're "on roids" but if you look at how big Chris Jones is, he's as heavy as an ex Mr. Olympia (before insulin abuse became a big thing in the sport) so it's all just a big hustle.

Many of them also have clothing brands and some even make supplements for themselves. IIRC, Zyzz was gonna make his own protein brand before he died and he wasn't even a physique competitor, just a handsome kid who liked steroids, hot bitches and posting funny memes online.

The internet has enabled bodybuilding tremendously but it's a lot like internet marketing but body oriented.

Rich Piana is a prime example of this. Ex competitor he parlayed that into a small-time acting career and then his own supplement line.

[Enigma]

She has sponsorships from multiple fitness/supplement brands, that's why she tags #gometal and #primevallabs in most of her pics and wears their gear, as well as specifically plugging other products.

She has almost 500,000 followers and average well over 20k+ likes per photo. She's getting paid thousands for every pic she posts on Instagram, not to mention she probably gets most of their products for free.

[TravelerKai]

(03-12-2017 07:23 AM)Enigma Wrote:  

She has sponsorships from multiple fitness/supplement brands, that's why she tags #gometal and #primevallabs in most of her pics and wears their gear, as well as specifically plugging other products.

She has almost 500,000 followers and average well over 20k+ likes per photo. She's getting paid thousands for every pic she posts on Instagram, not to mention she probably gets most of their products for free.

Do people on Instagram get paid like Youtubers do for uploading content (photos in this case)?

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(03-12-2017 07:42 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(03-12-2017 07:23 AM)Enigma Wrote:  

She has sponsorships from multiple fitness/supplement brands, that's why she tags #gometal and #primevallabs in most of her pics and wears their gear, as well as specifically plugging other products.

She has almost 500,000 followers and average well over 20k+ likes per photo. She's getting paid thousands for every pic she posts on Instagram, not to mention she probably gets most of their products for free.

Do people on Instagram get paid like Youtubers do for uploading content (photos in this case)?

You don't have fixed advertising income like in Youtube, but you can make a lot if you have a sufficiently big fan-base since you reach a certain amount of people. In effect you become like a brand or a newspaper that reaches an x-amount of consumers.

Quote:

O'Neill delves into these social media sponsorships in-depth, describing how, at 16 and with 50,000 followers, she charged $50 a post to help sell $150 bikinis; others with a similar following, she learned, were charging $500. As her numbers grew, so too did her paid endorsements.

There are claims that some Instagram models made millions off it and still do, this usually involves opening a connected business. Frankly nothing pays so fast for them than to get shit on by clients.

[zatara]

(03-12-2017 07:42 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Do people on Instagram get paid like Youtubers do for uploading content (photos in this case)?

Social media can be quite profitable if done smartly.

This muscle barbie is horrifying looking, but given she has supplement sponsors and a big social media presence I'd say she could be earning $40k a year from it. Thats before any competitions (or hooking), too.

Not a huge salary by any means, but more than enough to pay for a decent lifestyle (and plenty of gear) in a low cost of living country like Russia.

[kosko]

You make big money off YouTube if you have the high amount of followers. Instagram isn't so much, all the deals are dependent in what you sign and many times it is just free shit they give you, not actual money.

For a Kardashian and Chantel Jeffries a small company can't afford them. I see it no different then club sponsers appearance fees which would be 10k some celebs. People think that price is low but if they cover everything and all you have to do is show up and party for 3hrs it is easy money.

I don't believe the Russian girl rolling in cash. That other one posted looks like she got money as she has the high end whore look. That village muscle Barbie still got basic clothes and what not. Girls start dressing a certain way when they get paid on that level. I am sure she is getting some cash from social media but we are over estimating. Many just get free shit and are happy with that.

___

As far as BBs go. Ogus has made known he hasn't been natty, he also been linked to gay for pay shit so I don't assume he is clean. Mike Rashid with his squats everyday and endocrine burnout routines it was hard to believe he was natty, the recent drug bust that exposed me to his old shady past as Cinriq just cemented that. Chris Jones is natty, he is the same height as me, his body looks realistic. He has been lifting 10+ years now at a high level. You have seen him progresses from Walmart protein to having a BMW and using designer shit and his own gym now, he is getting good money from YouTube and fitness consulting.

Some of these YouTube guys if you see then in person are not that big. I seen Furious Pete at a Raptor game one time and was surprised has normal he looked. He was jacked as hell, but I know dudes who are bigger.

[Enigma]

(03-12-2017 07:42 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(03-12-2017 07:23 AM)Enigma Wrote:  

She has sponsorships from multiple fitness/supplement brands, that's why she tags #gometal and #primevallabs in most of her pics and wears their gear, as well as specifically plugging other products.

She has almost 500,000 followers and average well over 20k+ likes per photo. She's getting paid thousands for every pic she posts on Instagram, not to mention she probably gets most of their products for free.

Do people on Instagram get paid like Youtubers do for uploading content (photos in this case)?

Not as much as Youtubers, but then again they invest way less time in a selfie than someone does in a video. Many of the people with her level of following are making a few grand or more for every sponsored post.

Another thing about this chick is that she's very niche and seems to get a pretty high level of engagement. I'm sure she can make enough to pay for some gear and a gym membership in Russia.

[Captainstabbin]

$10K a month is only if you're doing growth and only for the few months leading to a major competition. Standard roids aren't anywhere close to that. This girl is probably only doing a single-med cycle twice a year, I doubt she's paying more than $1000 a year. Her iPhone probably cost more.

Pros are pushing the limit of their bodies so, on top of the drugs themselves, they also have constant doctor visits and blood tests to make sure their liver and kidney functions aren't shot. None of that is covered by insurance of course so the out of pocket expense is yuge.

An average pro can run $8-15K for a 16 week, pre-competition cycle and much lower when not competing. Some dudes are up to $20k if they get their Growth from a pharmacy and can find a doctor dumb enough to write the script. Again, this will be the same doctor who's monitoring blood work so he's assuming a TON of risk.

[Fortis]

Stabbin, the top of the top are on growth year around. They don't' do sloppy bulks anymore. That's a relic of the past. Many of them build up their base and cruise on low dosages year around and then when contest time comes up they blast themselves.

They do A LOT of GH and Insulin and keep the dosages on other things reasonably low once they build their base up.

I have friends who are NOWHERE NEAR professional level and they are on GH all year around. A close friend of mine does about $20 worth of GH every single day. You must shoot it everyday according to him and he's not that big. Maybe 105kg at 5'7-8. Guys like Phil Heath are only 5'9 but walk around at nearly 300 pounds on the off-season. That isn't just "Genetics." That's daily GH use.

That (and insulin) is one of the reasons why they are able to be 300+ pounds on the off season. If you took GH and insulin off the table those guys would shrink down by like 50+ pounds of muscle.

[zatara]

(03-12-2017 06:54 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

Stabbin, the top of the top are on growth year around. They don't' do sloppy bulks anymore. That's a relic of the past. Many of them build up their base and cruise on low dosages year around and then when contest time comes up they blast themselves.

They do A LOT of GH and Insulin and keep the dosages on other things reasonably low once they build their base up.

I have friends who are NOWHERE NEAR professional level and they are on GH all year around. A close friend of mine does about $20 worth of GH every single day. You must shoot it everyday according to him and he's not that big. Maybe 105kg at 5'7-8. Guys like Phil Heath are only 5'9 but walk around at nearly 300 pounds on the off-season. That isn't just "Genetics." That's daily GH use.

That (and insulin) is one of the reasons why they are able to be 300+ pounds on the off season. If you took GH and insulin off the table those guys would shrink down by like 50+ pounds of muscle.

All these additional chemicals are what have ruined modern bodybuilding. I know guys like Arnold or Frank Columbo were on a heap of steroids, but they at least looked human - just like exaggerated cartoon character humans.

The GH/Insulin guys are absolute monsters, and not in a good way. The distended stomachs just look awful.



Thats 3x Mr Olympia Frank Zane from the 1970s vs 6x Mr Olympia Phil Heath from this decade - look at the difference.

They really need to start putting the emphasis back on things other than just pure size.

The added cost of all these new chemicals is probably pushing more and more of them into the gay porn/gay hooking stuff too, which is very unfortunate.

[TravelerKai]

That guy on the right reminds me of Big Poppa Pump (AKA Scott Steiner) with that giant lump on his bicep that looks like a third scoop of ice cream.



Those biceps used to freak people out back in the glory days of the WWF. His biceps were even bigger than Lex Luger's back then, and that was saying something.

I always wondered what Scott Steiner was taking. The roid use was tremendously obvious. Was that GH/Insulin stuff in use back in 2001-2002?

[Snowflake]

zatara, the guy in your pic is Ronnie Coleman, not Phil Heath

EDIT: I feel like we are veering into bro-science territory real quick with this thread. This is not to discredit any of the posters, but I wish we could get a real steroid user like Steelex to chime in on this thread.

[zatara]

Oops, my bad - the image resolution was too low for me to tell the difference. They're not exactly dissimilar looking.

My point stands about the ridiculous modern size as a result of improved performance enhancers, though. Frank Zane looks like he could actually be somewhat functionally fit - be able to run a mile etc. But the Ronnie Coleman / Phil Heath size modern guys are just sheer size machines, at the expense of everything else.

I don't think thats good for their health, for the sport of bodybuilding, or for their own personal dignity if to afford all these performance enhancers they're out there sucking old gay men off.

[Extinguished Light]

There is absolutely no way that's natural. Some kind of body dysmorphia because she has a decent face and would probably look ok if she didn't juice and didn't go ham on training her upper body.

[budoslavic]

Via Instapundit:

Quote:

March 30, 2017

THE DEATH OF FEMALE BODYBUILDING, and the rise of “Man Face”. “When Corey Everson was Ms. Olympia from 1984 to 1989, the contest was often held in Madison Square Garden in front of a sellout crowd of screaming fans. Thirty years later and it’s a sideshow at the Olympia expo, or at least it used to be.”

Relevant to this thread's discussion about freaky muscular female lifters looking like a "man", below is a good post and worth the time to read (via above mentioned "Man Face" link).

Quote:

The Death of Women's Bodybuilding
Did "Ugly" Kill Female Pro Bodybuilding?
by John Romano | 08/18/15



Here's what you need to know...

1. In 2015, the Ms. Olympia was dropped, marking the possible end of women's bodybuilding.
2. "Man face" is a term used to describe the masculinisation of a female bodybuilder's facial features.
3. Drugs cause man face, of course, but there are other factors involved.
4. The audience for women's bodybuilding is shrinking, but the "schmoes" could keep it alive.

The Demise of Female Bodybuilding

Once upon a time, if men wanted to compete in a physique competition there was only one category: bodybuilding. The same was true for women.

These days, women can compete in bikini, figure, fitness, physique, and bodybuilding. The posing and related requirements are different for each, but the main difference is obvious: muscular size.

But in 2015, something changed: the Ms. Olympia title wasn't awarded to anyone. It was dropped.

Rewind back to 2005. The IFBB introduced the infamous "20 percent rule." In a memo, they asked female bodybuilders to decrease the amount of muscularity by a factor of 20 percent.

They didn't say, "Hey, ladies, back off the drugs, would ya?" or "The audience is shrinking because a lot of people, even bodybuilding fans, think you look kinda gross." But the message was clear.

The question is, was it the muscularity that was the problem or, for lack of a kinder term, the "man face?"

Time to Face Your Face

There's been a lot of banter lately about the facial attributes some female bodybuilders adopt when they're in contest shape.

Sucked out, drawn in, sunken eyes, veins in their foreheads, sharply angled jawline, a bigger nose, and a general coarseness to their dark orange skin that makes an oil tanker's mooring rope look silky -- kinda the way their voices sound too.

Such discussions tend to be particularly unkind.

Inevitably, there will be those who react rather defensively to the issue, particularly if they happen to be one of those women out there on stage sporting such a mug.

But the truth hurts.

That doesn't mean I necessarily need to say it, but then we'd be ignoring something that is quite literally attached to the giant pink amazon in the room: the "man face."

It's a trending topic in the wake of the cancellation of both the Ms. International and the Ms. Olympia. Could this "condition" potentially be part of what's contributing to the decline in women's bodybuilding?

"It's not a beauty contest," we hear them say. But that's not entirely true.

Bodybuilding is all about beauty. It's when we get away from beauty that we get compromised aesthetics, bad symmetry, and big guts.

As far as the women go, bodybuilding has been flogged with an ugly stick. And now women's bodybuilding is going away.

Does Femininity Draw Fans?
When Corey Everson was Ms. Olympia from 1984 to 1989, the contest was often held in Madison Square Garden in front of a sellout crowd of screaming fans. Thirty years later and it's a sideshow at the Olympia expo, or at least it used to be.

At first pass, this makes me the bigot misogynist, but it is what it is... or was. It's not my fault women's bodybuilding is going away, I'm just saying what happened.

Going into why it happened really makes the goop in the pot get sticky and beg to be stirred.

There's no shortage of dudes raring to charge at the opportunity to voice their views on femininity and how female bodybuilders have gone about destroying it, and ultimately, their sport.

However true that may seem on the onset, in reality, no man has the right to say that. Personal femininity is defined by each woman for herself and of herself; even if what's staring at her in the mirror has developed a man face -- five-o'clock shadow and all.

Even the seemingly gnarliest of females have an aspect of femininity. As long as she has a va-jay-jay and all X chromosomes, she could make a vintage cigar store Indian look like Cameron Diaz and somewhere in there is going to be a vestige of what makes her feel like a girl.

Now, obviously, there's a general consensus of what we find feminine, attractive, admirable, etc. It is those attributes that attract an audience willing to support women's bodybuilding.

Say what you will, but the fact remains that a late 80's era Ms. Olympia contest could sell out the Felt Forum while today's Ms. Olympia has already gasped her last breath. Can't argue with history.

Issues of femininity aside, a female bodybuilder, even with extraordinary muscle, could be hot as hell if her face weren't busted.

Busted Faces, Shrinking Audience
The degree and pursuit of muscularity has created a facial and physical image no longer appealing to enough of an audience to support it.

This declining interest is what lead to the top two IFBB women's bodybuilding events being canceled. Apparently, among other undesirable attributes, there were a lot of busted faces up there.

If the top ten of the Ms. Olympia sported a row of faces that looked like the bikini division, Ms. Olympia would probably be alive and well today.

By the same token, if the top ten of every bikini contest had bodybuilder faces, it would go away too.

I'm not saying that all of the bodybuilding pros are ugly. That's such an ugly word. What I am saying is this: the Corey Everson-era bodybuilder that sold out the Felt Forum would today compete, probably, in figure.

During the course of this evolution, the IFBB has created bikini, fitness, figure and physique, gradually paving the way for the bodybuilders to put more and more distance between them and what's considered attainable and desirable.

And they did a great job. They freaked the Ms. Olympia right out of existence.

It's within such an extreme that the ultimate condition of a female bodybuilder's face can get wrecked if she's not careful. That's some tradeoff considering what's at stake... or was at stake.

So What Causes Man Face?
Prolonged hormone abuse among women tends to cause the ears, nose, brow line and jaw to grow, much like a man's. But that's not the whole story.

What turns a previously pretty, arguably feminine face into what's cruelly termed a "man face?" Several things besides drugs, actually.

Each on their own might not necessarily pose a threat to a woman's facial attributes, but piled one on top of the other, as would be the case with a competitive bodybuilder, and she could end up with a face that's a show stopper. Literally.

Right off the bat, the general structure of female skin is thinner and contains less collagen than a man's skin. This is why women tend to age less gracefully than men.

The older a female competitor is, the greater the propensity for man face. The rapid aging of a woman's skin is the basis upon which we get gnarlier and gnarlier renditions of man face as the other contributing factors are piled on over the years of a competitive career.

Because women carry more subcutaneous fat, especially on their glutes and hamstrings, they have to diet really hard to lean out those areas to the current expectation. This puts and awful strain on her face.

A diet strict enough to striate a woman's hamstrings is going to affect her facial features. One would need to travel back in time and visit Auschwitz to find a more scary rendition of facial architecture.

Such repeated forays into the land of shreds will etch deep lines into a woman's face that no amount of Restalin is going to fill.

Facial hair is a direct side effect of some of the drugs many female bodybuilders use. Some women shave off the hair, some use laser, but the fact remains, it's there.

Conversely, perhaps a cruel jest by mother nature, the more male hormones a girl uses the more her body converts to DHT, attaches to follicle receptors, and induces male pattern baldness.

If only the hair destined to grow on the face would only grow on the head! Who says God doesn't have a sense of humor?

Take off the ubiquitous wig, add the five-o'clock shadow to the deep furrows where cheeks used to be, and you approach the kind of face not even a mother would love. But it can get worse.

Sebum is a skin oil we secrete that makes the skin soft and supple. Men tend to secrete more than women, but when a woman hits menopause it really dries up.

This causes the skin to look coarser and drier as the woman ages. Adding testosterone to a woman mimics some of the signs of menopause -- depleted levels of sebum is one of them.

Women using male hormones will likely secrete less sebum and therefore have drier, older looking skin. Remember, to begin with, women have less collagen in their skin. Combine this with their thinner skin and less sebum, add male hormones, and the condition is exacerbated.

So basically we have a situation where women are naturally predisposed to dry, coarse, thin skin as they age.

Magnifying those characteristics with drugs, both anabolic and ancillary (clenbuterol for example, used in contest prep to assist fat burning) really has a leaning effect on the face.

Add over-dieting to the extreme level required today and there's little hope in getting around man face. Put all of these deleterious conditions together and you have a recipe for something that most people will find socially repugnant.

Given the paltry pittance awarded even to the winner of the top IFBB shows, and the grievous hindrance to her beauty, one can only speculate, why?

Can Fetishists Save Female Bodybuilding?
Interestingly, there is a subculture that finds these extreme cases of masculinized women attractive and/or desirable. We tend to label these people "schmoes" -- men who sexually fetishize female bodybuilders.

I used to look at these men in disgust for their perverse nature, booking private sessions for "posing" and "wrestling" and other general kinkiness. But, in respect to the female bodybuilders out there still intent on pushing the envelope, I'm going to change my mind.

These guys have shown their worth in saving some semblance of the upper echelon of female bodybuilding by putting their money where their whack-off lube is.

In 2015, there's a new show for top female pros called Rising Phoenix. Promoted by Tim Gardner and supported financially by the schmoes, this show offers the opportunity to fatten the bank accounts of the erstwhile disenfranchised female pros with a $50,000 prize plus a Jeep worth $55,000.

This beats the top Olympia prize in its heyday. I see this as potentially damning for numerous dermatologists and a boon to the juice sellers.

Looks like man face is in for a nice payday. And that's a very good thing.

We all deserve the opportunity to pursue our dreams and aspirations. And it's always nice to have a venue in which to showcase and be rewarded and recognized for your effort.

It doesn't matter if the masses accept it, just as long as enough do to support it.

If such promotions continue and female bodybuilding becomes fan supported, then it will have proved that it is in fact not a beauty contest, and the women so inclined can just go for it.

Power to them.

Eye bleach...

[Simeon_Strangelight]

The future of Muscle Barbie?

[MKE-Ed]

(04-01-2017 02:31 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

The future of Muscle Barbie?

That's what she's going to look like in a few years. They all look terrible. They look terribly old and busted up. That busted up look on their faces is the result of years of steroid abuse. Another symptom of steroid abuse is the insanely large clitorises that many female bodybuilders get.

[Slam]

(04-01-2017 02:31 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

The future of Muscle Barbie?

My god. They all look like men. *vomit*

Women should not be encouraged to do this, or to look like this. Who is paying money to view these things? Who is sponsoring them?

I swear every day I see some photo or news item about modern society that makes me wonder if I was born in the wrong century.