[Feldeinsamkeit]

(02-10-2017 06:35 PM)ksbms Wrote:  

One of the problem is that you invested too much in her by thinking and writing here a long post making a big deal of it. Just scale it down. She's just some girl. That's all.

Fair point. My reactions to this girl have reminded me how I really need options with dating, since I sorely lacking in them at the moment. This is the reason why I've recently decided to give my bookstore and supermarket game a new lease of life.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

First of all, thanks for the input so far, which has really helped me get clear about what's going on in this situation.

OK, guys, here's what happened: I met up with this girl again today and it went more or less as I had expected. I was careful to maintain a strong frame throughout, i.e., good tonality, no learning forwards towards her whilst in conversation, not turning too often to face her when walking beside her, et.c., as well as some push-pull humour to keep her on her toes, which she seemed to react well to.

Despite this, the interaction still had the indelible mark of being a "business only" meeting. For example, one telling feature to my mind which confirms this was that she was very reluctant to make direct eye-contact with me, even though she clearly isn't the shy type. It was almost as if she was trying consciously to keep me firmly in the non-sexual category, but still doing what is necessary to keep me on side to help her with her English work down the line. Speaking of which, she played her cards well by not bringing the topic up until we parted ways, when she said, "I don't have anything finished to have a look at yet, but I'll let you know when I do", or words to that effect, so as to remind me that the purpose of these meetings was primarily to look over her work written in English. I didn't say anything to this, other than, "OK, see you sometime then", without mentioning any future meet ups and then went on my way.

Notwithstanding the above, there was, however, one moment which was interesting in the encounter: After she'd finished talking, there was a point in the conversation when I just looked into her eyes intently for a few seconds and we both held eye contact and said absolutely nothing. I then looked down at her mouth and then back up to her eyes and gave her a come-to-bed with me look, which she responded to with a wry smile. This girl, who, incidentally, turns out is 12 years younger than me, surely knows the deal that I'm interested in. The question I have is whether by maintaining frame I can get her under the sheets the next time we meet. I personally doubt it and suspect I'm just clutching at straws, but she is a solid 7 and quite pleasant from a conversation point of view, although she's bound to be on good behaviour towards me, one might object, given that she's working me from the angle of wanting help with her English work.

I'll be honest with you fellas here, this has been fucking with my head big time since I left her today. I'm on a 3 year dry spell and absolutely need a result with a girl sooner or later, or I feel I'm going to end up in the nuthouse and on heavy meds. Whenever I get a girl on a date it just seems to end up in a situation like this, or the girl just isn't fucking interested at all. This, as well as similar episodes recently, has really started to dredge up my old anxieties about my build (I'm quite slim, especially my arms, even though I'm trying to bulk up again) and my height (I'm 5'8) and just can't get out of my head how fucking easy the tall and well-built guys are having it with the women here, in that I don't ever see them running any game. They basically just show and the women pick them, judging from what I've observed in various social circles. And here I am stuck in the dating equivalent of the Twilight Zone.

Anyway, I expect that I won't hear from this girl for a month or so now and then, on the basis of her having given me a "date" today and thus having bought some good will from her perspective, she'll expect next time to meet up in a cafe for me to go over her English work.

What would you guys do at this point? I've been running various scenarios through my head: Write to her, telling her that I want to fuck her brains out and telling her to come over with a bottle of vino, to saying nothing at all, the latter being my preferred option. If she contacts me in the future and asks to meet up in a cafe, I decided on the following response: Come over to my flat and we'll chill, drink some wine and get the job done at a leisurely place. She'll know without any ambiguity what the deal is then and, if as I strongly suspect she's determined to not put out at all, she'll realize I've called her bluff. As this girl isn't in my social circle, it's no skin off my nose if I never see her again. That isn't my concern, but rather to get a bang out of her if it is at all possible.

But I'd appreciate any suggestions, including whether any of you RVFers have been in a similar situation to this yourselves and how you responded to it.

[rudebwoy]

One of the epiphany's I had decades ago and has been reinforced as of late, girls do not respond to niceness or nice guys.

As WestIndianArchie said 'you cannot nice your way into pussy'. Being a jerk works every time but you have to know how to calibrate it, not cocky and funny.

I read what you wrote and you strike me as a nice guy. Once you lose that then the results will change over night.

Do not focus on other guys, you had an opportunity here which I think you might have blown it from the first meeting. I have the strong feeling you talked too much and showed your eagerness.

I would not plow forward, the hardest part of the game is to know when too quit. If a girl isn't responding in a manner suitable to your liking, end the "relationship" immediately and do not look back. If she contacted me again, I wouldn't reply at all, no café, no walk, no nothing. This will show her you are not that easy and she doesn't have a hold on you. Which it seems she does.

I have had girls flake on me, I don't even reply or respond. One girl was in my circle (a place I frequent a lot) and I walked by her like she didn't even exist. She initiated conversation again and is still trying, to the point of looking at me like I did something wrong.

Have you read Heartsite, despite his racist stuff he has some great posts on game and frame.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(02-11-2017 03:28 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

One of the epiphany's I had decades ago and has been reinforced as of late, girls do not respond to niceness or nice guys.

As WestIndianArchie said 'you cannot nice your way into pussy'. Being a jerk works every time but you have to know how to calibrate it, not cocky and funny.

I read what you wrote and you strike me as a nice guy. Once you lose that then the results will change over night.

Do not focus on other guys, you had an opportunity here which I think you might have blown it from the first meeting. I have the strong feeling you talked too much and showed your eagerness.

I would not plow forward, the hardest part of the game is to know when too quit. If a girl isn't responding in a manner suitable to your liking, end the "relationship" immediately and do not look back. If she contacted me again, I wouldn't reply at all, no café, no walk, no nothing. This will show her you are not that easy and she doesn't have a hold on you. Which it seems she does.

I have had girls flake on me, I don't even reply or respond. One girl was in my circle (a place I frequent a lot) and I walked by her like she didn't even exist. She initiated conversation again and is still trying, to the point of looking at me like I did something wrong.

Have you read Heartsite, despite his racist stuff he has some great posts on game and frame.

I was just thinking the same thing earlier today, believe it or not. My problem is, I've always been a people pleaser - I'm not as guilty of this today as when I was younger - but I think that the residue of this may still be cockblocking me big time. I was reflecting on the tram home how the more sociopathic a guy is, the wetter those panties become and that I've really got to find a way of - at least on the outside - ditching the empathic demeanour and adopting more of a cold-hearted, I'll fuck-you-then-chuck-you vibe.

As for Chateau Heartiste, yes, I've visited the chateau many times and regard it as an institute of higher learning when it comes to female nature.

[Skank_Hunt]

Damn, I got to this too late. I can only tell you what I would have told you to do if I'd posted before you saw her again.

About 10 years ago I was in a similar dry spell. My successes in the past may as well not have existed. Confidence at rock bottom.

I was doing MM game in nightclubs, started pulling a few girls out of nightclubs, decent looking, some cute, not top shelf, but I was desperate to have these girls as my girlfriends for regular sex, physical and emotional intimacy. So this one time, a natural on 200+ notches (via cold approach and social circle, he was the real deal) saw me outside the club and told me, "Take her home and fuck her man!" And I said, "I would, but I want to make her my girlfriend and fall in love and all that good stuff." He said "OK fair enough." I took that as what I was doing was OK, but he was just a personable guy; he wouldn't press the issue, especially as I was just a minion, a friend of a friend.

Over time, a pattern emerged. I had run good MM game to get girls out of clubs, ready to be taken home, but I would just take the number to avoid rejection, and because I thought if I didn't SNL, I had a better chance of being a boyfriend and all that lovey dovey stuff. I do like that stuff and am not ashamed to admit it. But all these girls who were ready to be pulled THAT NIGHT -- they all flaked. Even the most eager of them. I found it incredible, and lamented that females make no sense.

So I simplified things. I took my "intelligent" mind out of it, and followed the simple plan of the 200+ natural. I would go out for a date, a walk in the park, ask her questions about herself, then walk around for a bit in some other places like the mall, edging closer to my place, until it was just around the corner, and invited her in for a drink and film. It was nerve wracking but I grabbed her slowly by the hips and kissed her. She reciprocated and success. But it took a LOT of balls to just go and do something so daring. Bang a girl the first meeting? That may be so, but it's the best thing to do.

Simplify things, Logistics and escalation. Bring her home and try. It's scary but it works. Assume the meeting is your last meeting where you stand a chance. You've got nothing to lose in that scenario.

[birthday cat]

Her explicit purpose for meeting you was to find someone to give her feedback on her English writing. She tried to keep things strictly business and said "what would you want in return" because she is willing to compensate you for your time. She has done nothing wrong but you are annoyed by her.

She knows you are trying to bang her but she is a 7 so she knows that at least 9 out of 10 men are trying to bang her. She can't cut off communication with all the men who want to bang her because then she would have to cut off her boss, co-workers, professors, students in her Ph.D. program, the landlord, the bartender, the cashier at the supermarket, the garbage man, etc. That is her reality.

A few years ago I read a lot of the old Heartiste stuff. Most of it is true but it made my game worse in the short term because it gave me a very negative outlook on women. You can't game girls when you start out with a chip on your shoulder and have no patience with them.

Heartiste talks about harsh truths. The harsh truth is your mindset and your game are your big problems. I can tell you more but can you accept that she has done nothing wrong and your game is the problem?

[jselysianeagle]

@birthday cat

C'mon man don't leave us hangin. I can sense that you've got some good wisdom to share, tell us more!

[PapayaTapper]

(02-11-2017 03:28 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

One of the epiphany's I had decades ago and has been reinforced as of late, girls do not respond to niceness or nice guys.

As WestIndianArchie said 'you cannot nice your way into pussy'. Being a jerk works every time but you have to know how to calibrate it, not cocky and funny.

I read what you wrote and you strike me as a nice guy. Once you lose that then the results will change over night.

Do not focus on other guys, you had an opportunity here which I think you might have blown it from the first meeting. I have the strong feeling you talked too much and showed your eagerness.

I would not plow forward, the hardest part of the game is to know when too quit. If a girl isn't responding in a manner suitable to your liking, end the "relationship" immediately and do not look back. If she contacted me again, I wouldn't reply at all, no café, no walk, no nothing. This will show her you are not that easy and she doesn't have a hold on you. Which it seems she does.

I have had girls flake on me, I don't even reply or respond. One girl was in my circle (a place I frequent a lot) and I walked by her like she didn't even exist. She initiated conversation again and is still trying, to the point of looking at me like I did something wrong.

Have you read Heartsite, despite his racist stuff he has some great posts on game and frame.

(02-10-2017 05:34 AM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

Hey guys, I need advice on the following situation which has just cropped up: I met up with a girl in early December last year (early thirties, academic at university) after a mutual friend introduced us via e-mail.....

I'd agree but with an adjustment for her age (see OP) Game isn't "one size fits all" Girls that age are hyper-sensitive to the pump and dump..and in the case of older chicks you can actually "nice your way into pussy"..to a certain extent

[rudebwoy]

I was referring to this article on Heartsite.

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixt...ts-of-poon

[questor70]

Slogans like "you can't nice your way into pussy" doesn't describe it fully. The devil's in the details.

Women want intimacy. Intimacy can come out of being nice. But it has to feel romantic and sexually charged, not LJBF beta-orbiter nice.

It doesn't take much courage to engage in typical PUA small-talk and standup-comedy schtick. It's just preening and clowning around. It does take guts to ask deeply personal questions. It's aggressive to do this. Penetrating. It's alpha.

I've already embedded the clip from Groundhog Day where Bill Murray reverse-engineers Andie MacDowell with the whole french poetry thing. He drilled at her until he was able to discover her primal wish-list in a mate and then played her like a fiddle. Was Bill Murray not "nice" in that dinner date? He was nice but there was an intensity there, a passion, the eye contact, almost hypnotic in his laser-like focus on her. THAT is the difference between pansy-ass LJBF "nice" and something women classify as romance.

Again, it's a variation on Mark Manson Honesty game.

Now, you could say that we're dealing with two different demographics here. Hitting on sluts in the club is different from a traditional date. Sluts FEAR intimacy because they're so damn insecure of who they are that they don't really want a man to get to know them, and I won't deny that. But for guys who are reformed beta, I suggest going the Bill Murray route rather than learning how to apply superficial alpha game.

[rudebwoy]

^If this was a Hollywood movie then we would not have to worry, the main star would end up with the girl. Unfortunately, this is real life not some scripted movie and the OP is asking for help.

Being "nice" isn't helping his cause, he is in a slump and wants to break it. By being nice, I mean not telling or showing the girl your intent.
After all, he is a man and a few years older than the girl. Better to have tried and failed, than do nothing at all.

Now he is wandering if the girl will return and he is not in control of the situation.

Did he do enough to build attraction? He went for the second date only to be told she was busy, as someone stated before - was she busy for the whole month of December.

She then got back to him after a few months, for what sounds like a daytime casual meet up. She also was willing to pay him for his time and buy him drinks, which makes me think she doesn't want him thinking she owes him anything.

[PapayaTapper]

(02-12-2017 01:27 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

I was referring to this article on Heartsite.

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixt...ts-of-poon

Great, (if not phenomenal) article.. no doubt...but it's premise is more about "keeping" her than "getting" her.

OP is trying to "get" an attractive, seemingly single, woman in her early thirties. This requires dialing waaaay back on the cocky funny, playa, vibe....she's likely "seen" a million of those clowns by now and her bs detector is on hyper alert.

Some measure of "nice guy" mixed with cool, sophisticated, stable yet fun guy is what is called for.

I'd go laser direct with her ala.... "I find you attractive and would like to know if there's substance to go along with the pretty face...cause that's what I'm looking for"

That's the game for early 30's lizards

(02-12-2017 06:16 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Being "nice" isn't helping his cause, he is in a slump and wants to break it. By being nice, I mean not telling or showing the girl your intent.

^Bingo

[PapayaTapper]

(02-12-2017 02:20 PM)questor70 Wrote:  

Again, it's a variation on Mark Manson Honesty game.

Nope...You're better off just saying "Hi I'm a fag, let's be friends"

[StrikeBack]

One really terrible thing about being a people pleaser AND in a dry spell at the same time is that it makes you terrified of losing a girl when you think you might have a chance. It makes you pull out all the weakest moves in the Friendzone Master's repertoire.

OP, you are being very timid and overly analytic and this woman (like all of them) can sense it. She's waiting for you to make a move so she can judge you for how manly you are, but you are not making any serious move at all. Meeting a girl at a coffee shop and staring at her for a good couple of hours is weak, and your bedroom eyes during a dry spell are not what you think they are... Bounce her from the coffee shop to a walk in the park, take her dancing and drinking, etc. Put yourselves in situations where you can get physical. Make bold moves without fear that she will say no thanks to you.

Game happens when you take actions, not when you analyse some methods only inside your own head.

[StackGsMan]

OP, the solution to your dilemma is totally different than the way you are trying to fix it. I have had long dry spells myself, although never for three years, and the root cause of the problem never has to do with a single woman. The root cause of your dilemma is that you are not approaching enough women. When you fail to approach you will at best get laid sporadically, and those that don't approach much and still get laid usually do so because of their lifestyle being conducive to meeting women or their looks/height. Based on what you have said about yourself you don't seem to have all that much going for you in the looks department (I'm mainly referring to your height), so you need to change your life routine.

If you are truly concerned with your sex life and mental well being as you have indicated you need to get out there and regularly approach new women. I can assure you that if you just approach 1 new woman a day for at least a couple of months you will in fact get laid, and most likely you will have more of a choice than you think.

To go back to the original topic of the thread though, with regards to the girl you are pursuing there is no written rule that being nice or not being nice or helping her with her work or not doing so is going to lead you to get laid with her or not. There is a certain segment of females that respond to any given type of game, and it is certainly not the case that you have to be "alpha" or lace your conversation with sexuality in order to get with a given girl. It might be the case that the largest portion of women respond to that personality type, but not all do. Men that would be considered beta still do get laid from time to time, and being beta is not the main problem, it is a lack of abundance or approaches.

You very well could end up with this chick by getting closer to her with time, but the main problem is return on investment. Are you willing to spend six months being an orbiter just for a chance that isn't even a sure thing?

My recommendation is just get in touch with her and explicitly say something to the effect that you want to move forward romantically with her. I only say that if getting rejected won't hurt you in terms of your work/school and social circle. If it doesn't work out, just next her and move on. You should approach other women anyway and use screening to your advantage so that you don't end up wasting effort on time diggers (my word for women that waste a guy's time).

[Feldeinsamkeit]

OK, guys, I've done it. This morning, I finally got pissed off with having this bitch's antics bouncing around in my head and decided to write her a short e-mail explaining that I wanted to get hot and heavy on Saturday but it was clear that as this isn't on her agenda, I'm calling off any future dealings with her.

Yes, I could have just ignored her in the future when she got back in touch with her latest instalment from her thesis to copy-edit, but I wanted to clear the deck early in my head in any case.

Upon reflection, I should have quoted WIA's maxim to her, "Ass or cash, nobody rides for free".

Over and out.

[rudebwoy]

(02-13-2017 04:07 AM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

OK, guys, I've done it. This morning, I finally got pissed off with having this bitch's antics bouncing around in my head and decided to write her a short e-mail explaining that I wanted to get hot and heavy on Saturday but it was clear that as this isn't on her agenda, I'm calling off any future dealings with her.

Yes, I could have just ignored her in the future when she got back in touch with her latest instalment from her thesis to copy-edit, but I wanted to clear the deck early in my head in any case.

Upon reflection, I should have quoted WIA's maxim to her, "Ass or cash, nobody rides for free".

Over and out.

Why?

Why by email?

Why couldn't you tell it to her face?

Does she have "single" girl friends?

[Skank_Hunt]

StrikeBack and StackGs are pretty much on point. You should have just gone for it on the date. Why sit there staring at her or whatever "eyes" you gave her when you could have been leading her to your place? There is also the recurring theme of you not being able to say certain things to a girl's face, so you do it by email behind the comfort of a computer screen. Real escalation that gets you real lays comes with the cost of being done in real life. I know after long dry spells escalation in person can be scary as hell but there is no other solution than to just go for it. Long analyses of this girl or another girl and details of email exchanges etc. are indicative of your main problems:

1. You don't have enough prospects (need more input numbers)
2. You don't escalate even when you do have a prospect.

2 is partly but not completely related to 1. It is related because the fewer prospects you have, the more you will depend on one particular prospect, increasing anxiety due to fear of loss, increasing probability of failure due to girl sensing anxiety and/or lack of escalation due to fear of rejection (and loss of prospect). You are afraid to push things to the limit and get an outright "no" (not just a token "no", an absolute rejection of your physical advances). But that is exactly what you should be getting. Either that or a bang. In this situation you avoided harsh rejection and discontinued by email, again avoiding any confrontation or difficulties in person, but in doing this you cost yourself a possible bang. She may well have said "no" to your attempt to escalate to bang, but she could have said yes, and she could have been sliding up and down your dick instead of emailing her about what you wanted to do to her in person but were to scared to.

At least the positives of this are that you will learn from it. Next time, go for the bang! And get more leads to avoid too much outcome dependence on one prospect! Long dry spells are like being a virgin all over again: first time escalation to sex is very hard on the nerves, but the only way you are going to become a non-virgin is by stepping out into the unknown.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(02-13-2017 12:18 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  

StrikeBack and StackGs are pretty much on point. You should have just gone for it on the date. Why sit there staring at her or whatever "eyes" you gave her when you could have been leading her to your place? There is also the recurring theme of you not being able to say certain things to a girl's face, so you do it by email behind the comfort of a computer screen. Real escalation that gets you real lays comes with the cost of being done in real life. I know after long dry spells escalation in person can be scary as hell but there is no other solution than to just go for it. Long analyses of this girl or another girl and details of email exchanges etc. are indicative of your main problems:

1. You don't have enough prospects (need more input numbers)
2. You don't escalate even when you do have a prospect.

2 is partly but not completely related to 1. It is related because the fewer prospects you have, the more you will depend on one particular prospect, increasing anxiety due to fear of loss, increasing probability of failure due to girl sensing anxiety and/or lack of escalation due to fear of rejection (and loss of prospect). You are afraid to push things to the limit and get an outright "no" (not just a token "no", an absolute rejection of your physical advances). But that is exactly what you should be getting. Either that or a bang. In this situation you avoided harsh rejection and discontinued by email, again avoiding any confrontation or difficulties in person, but in doing this you cost yourself a possible bang. She may well have said "no" to your attempt to escalate to bang, but she could have said yes, and she could have been sliding up and down your dick instead of emailing her about what you wanted to do to her in person but were to scared to.

At least the positives of this are that you will learn from it. Next time, go for the bang! And get more leads to avoid too much outcome dependence on one prospect! Long dry spells are like being a virgin all over again: first time escalation to sex is very hard on the nerves, but the only way you are going to become a non-virgin is by stepping out into the unknown.

All of the body language - constantly avoiding my attempts at kino, looking away when I looked at her for 99% of the time, as well as the scheming nature of her operations to not meet up with me previously, made me realize that. Incidentally, in her e-mail response, she confirmed that she had 0% interest in anything physical with me, so I feel justified in reacting the way I did.

@Rudebwoy: Why by e-mail, you asked. Well, she's not part of my social circle and I didn't want to get cock teased by her again, given that it was abundantly obvious from the last two meet ups what the score with her was. I just wanted to get this headfucker out of my life right now so that I didn't have her crawling back out of the woodwork in a month's time, thus tempting me back into giving her help with her English for fuck all in return.

[birthday cat]

This thread is painful to read. Not only is Feldeinsamkeit in a position where he doesn't know what he doesn't know, but he isn't making any progress either.

He ignores the best advice in the thread. Every one of his posts is further proof that he doesn't get it and he isn't learning anything from this experience either. He is actually getting worse despite his efforts and guys trying to help him.

He is getting worse because he is internalizing the 'too much red pill, not enough game' ideas that women are the problem or that this woman is trying to manipulate him when he provided us with a lot of evidence that she was quite straightforward with him.

This situation was never complicated. It's the man's job to lead. If a man leads then it usually doesn't take much time to figure out if the girl is interested (unless she is a tease, and this girl was not a tease). If a man leads then the girl will be more attracted to him. If a man leads then he can look back at what he did and learn from his successes and mistakes. Feldeinsamkeit didn't lead. He essentially just showed up and expected the situation to work itself out. That is very unattractive to a woman. Maybe she was never interested in the first place but his lack of leading is why he didn't figure it out sooner.

That being said, leading isn't the primary problem. Feldeinsamkeit's mindset about women is why he isn't leading, why he doesn't understand the emotional nature of women, why he isn't learning from his experiences, why he isn't improving, etc. His mindset is the bottleneck that must be removed so he can solve all the other problems.

The best one sentence of advice in this thread is:

(02-10-2017 04:43 PM)Nordwand Wrote:  

Go into this without any preconceptions, and lose the negativity before tomorrow, because at present you're a self fulfilling prophecy.

Feldeinsamkeit responds with:

(02-10-2017 04:48 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

I wouldn't say that I'm carrying any negativity going into this. My only concern is to quickly resolve the interaction with this girl to go in one of two directions: Either fuck me or fuck off.

He says he isn't carrying any negativity but almost every one of his posts includes negativity about women, their "antics" or "scheming", how they are so easy for guys who are tall and well-built, etc. The sentence after he claims to not be carrying any negative includes negativity ("fuck me or fuck off").

Feldeinsamkeit's game with his current mindset is like lining up to run the 100 meter dash with a 100kg barbell on his back. All he has to do is drop the barbell but he doesn't know how because he is so caught up in negativity which, in part, is due to reading too much manosphere and Heartiste.

A lot of this reminds me of myself from a few years ago and the best advice I can give is to focus on acceptance.

Acceptance
1) Some guys need to accept that they might be smart but they aren't naturally good with women. They might be naturally good at other intellectual topics like math or science but they need help with women. They will need a lot of input from other guys to improve. They won't be able to use their intelligence to learn everything by themselves.

2) Accept that women aren't the problem and stop making excuses. Woman are what they are and plenty of guys have success with women including short guys like me. These broads aren't exactly moving targets. Their psychology is pretty consistent and not changing. Every time a guy blames women or talks about how women only go for tall/rich/sociopath guys, he is just rationalizing and making things harder for himself by internalizing his self-limiting beliefs.

3) Accept that women are emotional and irrational. They don't view the world in the same way that men do. This won't change so don't expect women to be logical. Accept that logical/analytical thinking isn't how women think about men so analytical guys will have to work harder to understand them.

4) Accept that western women have some issues but it isn't that bad. We are all products of a species where the reproduction rate for women has been twice as high as the rate for men (80% and 40%). It isn't supposed to be easy and we have huge advantages such as women being much more willing to have frequent sex due to birth control, abortion, etc.

5) Accept that it is going to take work to improve. Most guys can make huge improvements with their appearance, logistics, and game as long as they are willing to put in some work.

[rudebwoy]

Damn Birthday Cat, I was trying to go lightly on the OP.

You came in hard and to be honest, you are 100% correct.

This ordeal was dead after the first meeting.

[birthday cat]

^ I know what you are saying. It is a fine line between trying to be helpful in a positive way and actually being helpful when the main thing the guy needs is a wake up call. Maybe I crossed the line. I hope not.

My hypothesis is that either this will be the wake up call that OP needs or he won't listen at all. If he doesn't listen at all, then someone else will benefit from it.

I have a lot in common with OP so I can speak from experience. Everything I've said is something I've had to say to myself at some point so I know it is correct in some context for someone.

Also, guys like OP and myself tend to respond best to very direct communication. We are quite stubborn and it sometimes requires directness to penetrate through the stubbornness.

[Baphomet]

(02-10-2017 06:12 AM)Baphomet Wrote:  

So you haven't done any work for her yet?

Ask her when she'll need you to go over the thesis. When she replies, send her a quote, whatever your happy price is.

She is not the end of your dry spell. She is a painful continuation of it. At least get paid.

(02-13-2017 02:52 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Damn Birthday Cat, I was trying to go lightly on the OP.

You came in hard and to be honest, you are 100% correct.

This ordeal was dead after the first meeting.

Which is exactly why I suggested that he turn it into a PAYING opportunity since the PLAYING opportunity was DOA.

[rudebwoy]

@Birthday Cat - no this is a site for MEN, so OP should understand we are trying to help him.

I am beyond curious as to what the conversation would have been on the first date.

I have a feeling it was like two pen pals talking and meeting for the first time.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(02-13-2017 03:23 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

@Birthday Cat - no this is a site for MEN, so OP should understand we are trying to help him.

I am beyond curious as to what the conversation would have been on the first date.

I have a feeling it was like two pen pals talking and meeting for the first time.

I appreciate the blunt honesty of Birthday Cat's post, but it misses the point with this girl, since she was exclusively looking at me through the lens of me being a useful mug who would correct her English work. All attempts at kino, playful teasing, et.c., weren't getting me anywhere with this girl. To suggest, as some posters have done, that I should have gone in hard and heavy, doesn't take into account that this girl was putting up very clear boundaries regarding what she wanted me for.

The general point of Birthday Cat, that it's my general mindset that needs to change, is, I grudgingly admit, correct.

Today, something snapped in me and I went on a daygame spree in Leipzig - I hit the bookstores, two of the malls, the supermarkets, the shoe shop and even worked the trams and have only just come back home. I surprised myself with the results, in that they shone a bright light on how stuck in my own head I had become. Even though I broke through my approach anxiety barrier again today, my main sticking point with daygame, I've come to realize, is that even when the interaction is going well, I bail out too quickly, as if I'm cashing my chips in while I'm ahead, as idiotic as that must sound to those reading this.

The last girl I approached, probably mid-20s, tall, was a little overweight but otherwise a solid 6 with some nice curves. I noticed that she was wearing laddered black tights so I eventually saunter up to her and ask her, "So, what happened to your tights, then? Did you have a run in with your cats?". At first she was taken aback a little that I'd opened her, but when she realized, after a few more questions and general banter, that I was flirting with her, I could see how her face was lighting up. Being the total fucking idiot that I am, I bailed before pushing the interaction any further, for reasons which I have yet to fully work out myself. I'm still kicking myself now.

The one thing that's become blindingly clear to me over the last few days is I'm not approaching women in anywhere near the numbers I need to. This is the reason I'm now making daygame my number one priority.

But thanks guys for your support. I accept that I'm stubborn and often seem to turn a deaf ear - although that also has its good sides, too - but some of what's been said on here in response to my experiences I've had difficulty processing.