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The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women
#1

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

Hello gents,

Nearly two years ago I wrote an ROK article about financially protecting yourself from women. The article was deliberately simple for two reasons: 1) it needed to be accessible to any guy reading the site (in fact, I was aiming it at novices) and 2) it's often disadvantageous to make financial advice too specific, particularly when the law typically favors a self-entitled woman.

My recent experiences have backed up the precepts of that article 1,000%. If you have not read it, I recommend you do. As far as I am concerned, if we take care of the basic stuff with women, the rest either follows or will follow with greater ease.

I had a Czech girlfriend, Krystyna, with whom I broke up a few months ago. It was a long LTR. She and her family are from Brno, the country's second city.

For the entirety of our relationship, I made it clear that I was not going to be the traditional Czech boyfriend, who shells out pretty much everything for his girl. I've spoken to a lot of Russian girls in Prague, Budapest and Katowice who call Czech, Hungarian and Polish men "cheap and Western", but, still, nothing explains the low-earning Czech or Polish man who agrees to spend a quarter to half of his income on his woman, with whom he doesn't even live.

This continues a pattern I have engaged in since my pre-game days. I have never been financially taken advantage of by a woman. Probably the "worst" experience was that a girl flaked on me one time in Hungary, when we were meant to stay together in an apartment. But it wasn't a big issue, as I'd already banged her multiple times before and it turned out she had some mental problems like BPD. I just met other girls instead and I had to stay somewhere anyway.

The rest of the deal with Krystyna was this: I come, rearrange myself to settle in CZ, and she does all the cooking, the cleaning, and other things. That was considered a) the right thing and b) a kind of interest for any time I lent her some spare cash for a trip away.

As our relationship progressed, it became clear Krystyna suffered from some moderate but legitimate anxiety issues. This first post-communist Eastern European part-generation (born 1990-1995) appears to have the problem in droves if you scratch the surface, like some sort of transitional existential crisis. Their parents are sometimes scarred by the past, but are actually much more resilient. If they don't have hidden anxiety issues, these 20-somethings can have a bitchy, gold-digger-like persona.

She also had some problems with managing details and wasn't a great planner, which I generally put down to her gender. Like even the best women, feelings ruled. Getting her to promptly arrange time off work for a trip to, say, Spain could sometimes be a bore, as it was almost as if she felt like "feelings" would get her and I there, not a Ryanair ticket.

She ended up having a bust-up at work. Later, she said she surreptitiously stole money from her employer after a dispute about entitlements. This was in the final two or three months of our relationship and I remember thinking neutrally, "Yeah, this could be over soon. I better make preparations." She was explicit, both writing to me regarding the theft (text, IMs) and also speaking at length about it in person.

Meanwhile, I had been sending money of mine to her as I normally did, clearly labeling it as mine. I had sought the advice of a lawyer friend earlier on and Krystyna and I had written agreements about how my money would be stored and used, and what she owed from various engagements we had. It was formal enough to be admissible in court (not that I wanted court) but informal enough to fly under the radar.

For those of you who question this method, I would counter that she tended to speak with hotels and landlords about our arrangements. She needed a way to pay them. That's why money was sent to her, albeit labeled as mine and able to cross-referenced with written agreements. I was not always in EE.

That said, Krystyna had put a large sum of money into our relationship, over three years more than her father earned in a single year. Many of our stays in places were funded evenly in advance, without loans.

So, after some friendly incidents with girls she began to accuse me of cheating. I denied, but then she said she wanted to pay less for the relationship and cancel some, but not all of the debts she owed me. Personally I think she was and still is going through a rough patch in relation to her future direction. Those final months she exhibited some questionable antics. She was not getting along with coworkers at times and I was, even if my frame was tight ("No bullshit, Krystyna, or I'm out"), progressively getting sick of her.

Given her revelations about stealing from her employer and some other behaviors, I declined and said I'd sooner break up than reduce the debts. And I did end up breaking up with her.

After the break-up, she was very slow to return money, most notably the money of mine that had already been sent for our future trips. The Czech banking system can be slow, as can movements to and from PayPal, but not THAT slow. I pressed her and only got some of the money back.

It turns out, angered at me breaking things off with her, she had started spending money of mine. At first, she couldn't admit it, of course. Yet this is what happened, as she conceded some time later.

Seeking to avoid a police or court situation, I contacted some mutual friends, a very select group of them so things could be kept under control. I held off contacting her family, hoping (key word: hoping) she would come round. It was really just a tactical gesture, however. I was feigning civility, so that later I could tell the authorities I gave her a reasonable time to respond and return the cash. I expected some trouble.

At the same time, a large volume of my personal belongings were also being kept at her parents'. I wasn't in CZ when I asked for a date to retrieve them back. The value is quite substantial. Thankfully, she and I had a record of my things there to help me decide what I needed to bring and buy when traveling. The lifestyle I lead makes it impossible not to leave personal belongings with people, including spare laptops, half a wardrobe, and other things.

More money, quite a lot, was returned last week. Without the information I have, this would probably not have happened.

Here are some lessons from this drama, most of which I already knew very deeply:

Women will spite themselves to try and spite you: We should already know this, but it deserves emphasis here again. Although she had to stop slandering me to others for the most part when she realised I would retaliate (with some home truths, not lies), the way this woman has dug a hole for herself to try and inconvenience me is astounding. Friends are now telling me she's saying very little about me, even though my interactions with her show she's fuming. Behind the scenes is a different story. Her refusals to take responsibility have only increased the negative things others are saying about her. Trying to be seen as right, she's being perceived as deceptive and delusional. This is all organic, too, as I haven't tried to unnecessarily fan the flames out of respect to her parents.

An ex will deny the very things she wrote you, even when other people can see them: Mutual friends came to me and asked what was going on, having heard rumors. So I showed them. They wanted to remain somewhat neutral, yet they couldn't believe the hamstering Krystyna was engaging in. "Oh, those emails and receipts you saw are fake," she told them in Czech. If that helps her day-to-day, so be it.

Families will enable an ex's stupid behavior, but you should still contact them when a dispute arises (after a while): It seems paradoxical, yet you should keep your bases covered. I waited many weeks to contact them and eventually said I wanted a resolution to avoid a police intervention. Instead of being angry at their little girl's stupidity, they blamed me for wanting my things back. I've kept my tongue fairly unexercised with them. It was good I contacted them, as it will help with any future request from police for something like a time to pick up my things. A police offer near Brno has confirmed to me that this is the right way to go.

Keep your messages and texts: I'm not talking about money and personal belongings alone. You need to be able to show someone you took reasonable steps to behave civilly. I believe she's under major pressure at the moment, slowly realizing the ramifications if I go to the police (which, again, is a matter I don't really care about pursuing). She was much more accommodating when I basically resent back to her previous, well-worded text messages about getting my belongings and money.

Don't be afraid to cause SOME controversy: I ended up calling her employer to get extra money back when she was silent. I told them flat-out I was Krystyna's ex-boyfriend and I was owed money. I didn't mention her stealing from them. I did say money had been taken from me. I offered to send proof and said that I wanted this to be resolved without the courts and the police, a process which would significantly embarrass her parents. She coughed up more money soon after. A four minute call achieved a lot more than filing a document in court would. If people find this to be over the top, so be it. But it got an outcome with minimal effort.

Always get her to put in more than you need her to: Right now I'm spending about half an hour a week on this issue. If worse comes to worse, I can walk away, aside from the police and my personal belongings. I could pursue her in the court system and get everything back, yet the effort doesn't appeal to me. She put in 200,000Kc (US$8,000) into our relationship as an Eastern European. I came out well.

Be prepared to lose some friends: I lost one fairly close friend out of this, a girl. Good riddance. You cannot win everyone over. A second girl said "I don't know if we should keep talking anymore. Maybe she just made some mistakes." I told her, "If you're not sure, then delete me from your life, figuratively and literally. I regret nothing. If you did what she did, I'd do the same with you." My don't-give-a-fuck words were congruous with my attitude. Aside from her family, everyone else, whilst not getting directly involved, has basically respected what I'm doing.

See the education in everything: I am glad this happened. I came to ROK with an outlook two years ago and it has been vindicated to the maximum in this situation. Proportionally, she's put in a lot more than me and my frame has been 9.5/10 for the whole time since we broke up. I've also been taught even better ways to handle a girl post-break-up. I jettisoned from the relationship at the perfect time and had already taken the protective measures I needed.

This is obviously only a synopsis, but I hope you guys find it informative.

David

Born Down Under, but I enjoy Slovakian Thunder: http://slovakia.travel/en/nove-zamky
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#2

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

Does Kristyna's last name start with C and end with an A?
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#3

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

Quote: (02-09-2017 12:53 PM)Manfred Libido Wrote:  

Does Kristyna's last name start with C and end with an A?

Nope.

Born Down Under, but I enjoy Slovakian Thunder: http://slovakia.travel/en/nove-zamky
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#4

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

I'm curious as to why you included her in all of these money dealings in the first place. Couldn't you just have gone through lawyers/CPA/agents to handle all of the stuff that this girl presumably did? Sending over money labeled as "your money" is particularly head-scratching as most women seem to have a "what's his is mine" mentality.

Perhaps I'm missing a lot of details that you left out in the interest of brevity or privacy, but from a top down perspective, it seems this was doomed from the moment you trusted her with your finances.
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#5

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

To make things more simple: consider any money you spend on/give to a girl as money gone. Beyond that, don't "invest money" into or with a female unless she is birthing your children.

I'll admit I didn't read the OP as it was long winded and seemed awfully convoluted. The real solution here is to not get a woman mixed up in your personal financial dealings beyond buying her dinner, drinks, gifts, and random shit like that. You're not a bank.
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#6

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

Just to clarify a few things:
- I travel extensively for work and to a lesser extent study.
- Her handling some aspects of the money was the only way a home set-up together would function. The most significant purchases I made myself.
- If I lived and worked in the same city constantly, I would have altered my approach somewhat.

Quote: (02-09-2017 01:39 PM)booshala Wrote:  

I'm curious as to why you included her in all of these money dealings in the first place. Couldn't you just have gone through lawyers/CPA/agents to handle all of the stuff that this girl presumably did? Sending over money labeled as "your money" is particularly head-scratching as most women seem to have a "what's his is mine" mentality.

Too complicated and time-consuming in the Czech Republic. And the cost would be unjustified. To be honest, she became something of a secretary. She dealt with the tedious stuff, like dealing with the real estate agent, other landlords, and the like.

A significant number of accomodation places don't even allow you to pay online (unless you want hotels). It's ostensibly because of the cost of electronic payments, but the real reason I suspect is tax avoidance. Plus, I've lost track of the number of times I've received a call from my Australian bank saying my cards have been canceled due to my use of them in some EE country.

She basically just went off the deep end after the break-up.

Quote: (02-09-2017 01:39 PM)booshala Wrote:  

Perhaps I'm missing a lot of details that you left out in the interest of brevity or privacy, but from a top down perspective, it seems this was doomed from the moment you trusted her with your finances.

Not really. It worked for a long time. It took two seconds to document most things and I had enough to make it legally enforceable.

And, as I said, she's already paying the previously spent money. I received a significant chunk last week. She had a meltdown, somewhat calmed down, but couldn't exactly not repay money, unless she wanted problems.

Quote: (02-09-2017 01:47 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

To make things more simple: consider any money you spend on/give to a girl as money gone. Beyond that, don't "invest money" into or with a female unless she is birthing your children.

I'll admit I didn't read the OP as it was long winded and seemed awfully convoluted. The real solution here is to not get a woman mixed up in your personal financial dealings beyond buying her dinner, drinks, gifts, and random shit like that. You're not a bank.

I don't think anything involving women can't be at least partially convoluted.

And it depends on your situation. Unlike most people, I had checked with a lawyer prior to everything.

She went a tad mental at the end, went on a bit of a spending spree, and has now realized if she doesn't pay the police will potentially become involved.

Her involvement saved me time in the end, which in my position I valued significantly.

I would not recommend this approach for people who desperately need every penny. But considering I commuted to Prague 13 times, Berlin three times, England twice, and Katowice thrice in the last three months I lived with her, there comes a point at which time starts to outweigh other considerations.

Born Down Under, but I enjoy Slovakian Thunder: http://slovakia.travel/en/nove-zamky
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#7

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

You should be able to pay all your bills abroad, especially anno 2017. You should not have to rely on your girl at the home front to handle any financial dealings, and even less so if she is not taking care of your children and unable to work full-time and pay her own way.

Worst case scenario: you travel a lot for work and your girl is raising children at home without you there a lot of the time - you give her a debit card that ties to an "allowance" checking account. You deposit money in there monthly so she can go grocery shopping, buy things for the kids, school expenses, and keeping herself attractive.

I cringe when I see men allowing their women to handle their finances. Not only is it unwise to depend on someone else to pay your bills and properly handle your finances, but it also fosters a state of stagnation where you forfeit your personal freedoms and responsibility for the sake of convenience and comfort.
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#8

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

Quote: (02-09-2017 03:05 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

You should be able to pay all your bills abroad, especially anno 2017. You should not have to rely on your girl at the home front to handle any financial dealings, and even less so if she is not taking care of your children and unable to work full-time and pay her own way.

Worst case scenario: you travel a lot for work and your girl is raising children at home without you there a lot of the time - you give her a debit card that ties to an "allowance" checking account. You deposit money in there monthly so she can go grocery shopping, buy things for the kids, school expenses, and keeping herself attractive.

I cringe when I see men allowing their women to handle their finances. Not only is it unwise to depend on someone else to pay your bills and properly handle your finances, but it also fosters a state of stagnation where you forfeit your personal freedoms and responsibility for the sake of convenience and comfort.

And that's generally reasonable and advisable. Generally.

But there are going to be exceptions. If I returned to Australia for a month or two and certain things in CZ could only be handled with cash, I arranged for my part to be sent. Same for a week when I was in in Prague, or on a trip to England.

What works for you works, but the lifestyle I lead does not always enable me to do that. You're confusing a more judicious use of this with carelessness, as if all one's bank accounts were available to a woman.

I hear the line you're taking in a similar form when guys talk about preventing their girlfriends from going out at night. This idea that no deviation from the rule can ever be countenanced.

Wrapping her up in the kind of butcher's paper you use to protect fine china only goes so far. It's a general strategy, yet will not suit every circumstance or even be feasible.

And when it comes to marriage, the idea that you can fully protect yourself and your finances with the allowance method is very doubtful.

By your own account you didn't read the post, and that's fine, but had you done so you would have read that I had an agreement and that because of that she's had to start paying.

If you've been dating a girl for 10 months and she needs $1,000 for an emergency, how would you handle it?

Born Down Under, but I enjoy Slovakian Thunder: http://slovakia.travel/en/nove-zamky
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#9

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

Mostly I like your thinking, Stalin, but for my set-up it would create problems in some instances.

A good example is something like an internet contract.

I speak intermediate Czech. Am I going to sign a one or two year internet contract with zero experience with Czech telcos and non-fluent language skills? Of course not.

So I let her handle that and the money side of it.

Same for the sofa we ordered and I was out of town. I transferred the equivalent of $500 for my part.

Born Down Under, but I enjoy Slovakian Thunder: http://slovakia.travel/en/nove-zamky
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#10

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

Quote: (02-09-2017 01:47 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

To make things more simple: consider any money you spend on/give to a girl as money gone. Beyond that, don't "invest money" into or with a female unless she is birthing your children.

I'll admit I didn't read the OP as it was long winded and seemed awfully convoluted. The real solution here is to not get a woman mixed up in your personal financial dealings beyond buying her dinner, drinks, gifts, and random shit like that. You're not a bank.

This. My eyes lit up when I saw the title as blowing money on women has been my biggest issue in my 9 1/2 years of racking notches and girlfriends.

As I type this, I'm on the phone with my credit card company, moving forward on a payment plan to get my credit card debt under control - credit card debt that is due to spending way too much money on a 2015 STR (both on her and on some legal troubles related to her...goodness my bluepillness is gonna destroy me), a 2016-TR that I spent money on instead of getting my debts under control, and the spending habits were the product of spending way too much on women in the first place for years, when that money was cash instead of credit.

Imma break down the money spent on each of my last 3 gfs sometime soon and post it on this board.
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#11

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

I 100% understand what you are saying, also I just read your OP.

What I'm saying is that the content you have written here would/should be irrelevant if you have your life setup properly. If you know your lifestyle involves being abroad the majority of the time, then instead of worrying about how you are going to cover your ass while trusting your girlfriend to take care of your apartment and bills and whatever else at your home country, you should moreso be focused on designing your life to meet the needs of your situation. Perhaps you shouldn't own a lot of personal belongings if you aren't in one location long enough to get use out of them.

A lot of the planning, preparation, and headache involved in "managing your financial affairs with women" as you've stated here can be 100% avoided is what I'm saying.

You say your particular situation is unique. To that I have two things to say:
1.) If it's so unique, how is it relevant to anyone else?
2.) You say because your unique situation and lifestyle that having your girl take care of certain financial dealings for you in unavoidable. How would you manage your life and finances if you did not have some girl at home to rely on?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, just trying to see what the real reason for all of this is. There should be no reason your money and overall assets need to be in question with a woman in your life unless you are legally married and/or have children.

To answer your question.

Quote:Quote:

If you've been dating a girl for 10 months and she needs $1,000 for an emergency, how would you handle it?

If I had the money to spare and she was the future mother of my children then I would give her the money. Otherwise I would tell her I'm not able to help her.
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#12

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

Quote: (02-09-2017 04:44 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

I 100% understand what you are saying, also I just read your OP.

What I'm saying is that the content you have written here would/should be irrelevant if you have your life setup properly. If you know your lifestyle involves being abroad the majority of the time, then instead of worrying about how you are going to cover your ass while trusting your girlfriend to take care of your apartment and bills and whatever else at your home country, you should moreso be focused on designing your life to meet the needs of your situation. Perhaps you shouldn't own a lot of personal belongings if you aren't in one location long enough to get use out of them.

A lot of the planning, preparation, and headache involved in "managing your financial affairs with women" as you've stated here can be 100% avoided is what I'm saying.

And sometimes it can't be. Nonetheless, I think we have a lot more common ground than we first anticipated.

Quote: (02-09-2017 04:44 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

You say your particular situation is unique. To that I have two things to say:
1.) If it's so unique, how is it relevant to anyone else?
2.) You say because your unique situation and lifestyle that having your girl take care of certain financial dealings for you in unavoidable. How would you manage your life and finances if you did not have some girl at home to rely on?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, just trying to see what the real reason for all of this is. There should be no reason your money and overall assets need to be in question with a woman in your life unless you are legally married and/or have children.

1) Pretty much 4/5 red pill men are going to have a partner whose income approximates theirs (50% to 100% of what the man earns). With the housing and other markets being the way they are, what I am saying about managing and documenting is entirely relevant to them. Inasmuch as it's not ideal, many red pill guys WILL have to pool their resources with their woman, at least prior to having children. If things go south, you need to be ready and know for what you have outlaid money, particularly as things like family court settlements can apply to pre-marriage couples now.

I may be dealing with girls who earn and own substantially less, but the same need for records often arises due to my travel and their status as locals in a particular country. You seem to be in a similar boat as me in terms of earning more than the women you keep company with, but not in the shifting lifestyle.

2) Friends. I've never had any issues with them and money, nor, incidentally, did I have any issues with girlfriends and money prior to Krystyna. I had four decent length relationships with Euro girls before this where I had similar recorded arrangements. The relationships ended and there were no hassles. I firmly believe Krystyna was an outlier. Here was a woman who expected me to marry her eventually and quickly found out that I was no longer interested. Even with a series of documents she wrote, a woman can go off the deep end, just as she can trash your place if she still has a key. You can't insure for everything.

As for the final bit, this is a discussion and I think probing each other for the reasons behind our actions is why this forum is such a success.

I do move around a lot, creating the need for some flexibility in how things are paid. This is especially so for things like landlords in many of these EE places. The lady would literally come to our door and collect about US$1,000 for our place. The same went for things like tour holidays. If a deal came up, she had money on hand to go book it locally, for when I was out of the country.

Quote: (02-09-2017 04:44 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

If I had the money to spare and she was the future mother of my children then I would give her the money. Otherwise I would tell her I'm not able to help her

And Krystyna was for a long time in that category for me. Only the last months challenged and then reversed that inclination.

Born Down Under, but I enjoy Slovakian Thunder: http://slovakia.travel/en/nove-zamky
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#13

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

I'm with Stalin on this one, never let a woman handle your financial affairs.

You can let her manage some details and farm out cash in the required amounts - this would never lead to a debt or money needing to be recovered.

Any cash you give or "lend" a woman you can just about kiss goodbye.
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#14

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

Most FSU men keep their wives and mistresses on a short financial leash... Doling out just enough cash for that weeks expenses and most women fear what would happen if they crossed the line with their men.

That said curious what red flags emerged that proved she was not future wife and mother of your kids material... Obviously theft from a employer being one glaring example... Many jurisdictions would drag you into her embezzlement fiasco. That alone is red flag enough...
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#15

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

Quote: (02-09-2017 07:41 PM)Deepdiver Wrote:  

Most FSU men keep their wives and mistresses on a short financial leash... Doling out just enough cash for that weeks expenses and most women fear what would happen if they crossed the line with their men.

That said curious what red flags emerged that proved she was not future wife and mother of your kids material... Obviously theft from a employer being one glaring example... Many jurisdictions would drag you into her embezzlement fiasco. That alone is red flag enough...

I know. When she told me about the theft I was taken aback. She was quite frayed at the edges in those final weeks. Not in her appearance, just her demeanor.

As I said, my initial reaction to the theft was basically, "Yeah, this could end soon - because I'll end it."

Generally, I just lost interest in her. I was more enamored with a Russian and a Bohemian, both of whom lived in Prague.

Truth be told, I think Krystyna's scared shitless I will bust her over the theft (from the employer). I would not be surprised if that's the primary motivation behind her "games". As for the employer potentially drawing me in - who cares? The messages I have would show when I found out. It's the least of my concerns until I can pick up my things.

If Czech police suddenly looked into her behavior at her job, I'd be the second person/entity who could show they had something taken by her. I've been a police witness in multiple countries, including when a friend of mine was accused (incorrectly) of an assault. Talking to police has never phased me.

Fear and loss make you do weird things. Only days prior to our last time together, I had been in her family's professional and other photos. Her parents had accepted me long before that. It obviously cut her up that I didn't feel like staying with her.

She's not a stupid girl. I'd say what happened is that she lost control after the break-up, didn't think and found herself in a hole re spent money.

My money is fine either way. She's made extra undertakings since the break-up and after I had to bust her in messages a few times. I got a significant chunk back last week. And as I said before, as a Eastern European girl she put in a fuckload, a little north of US$8,000. I've come out better than 99% of guys who date any European women, let alone EE's. I say this not because of the gold-digger stereotype, but because EE girls earn much less.

I'm happy at how this has panned out.

Born Down Under, but I enjoy Slovakian Thunder: http://slovakia.travel/en/nove-zamky
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#16

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

Quote: (02-09-2017 04:27 PM)MaceTyrell Wrote:  

Quote: (02-09-2017 01:47 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

To make things more simple: consider any money you spend on/give to a girl as money gone. Beyond that, don't "invest money" into or with a female unless she is birthing your children.

I'll admit I didn't read the OP as it was long winded and seemed awfully convoluted. The real solution here is to not get a woman mixed up in your personal financial dealings beyond buying her dinner, drinks, gifts, and random shit like that. You're not a bank.

This. My eyes lit up when I saw the title as blowing money on women has been my biggest issue in my 9 1/2 years of racking notches and girlfriends.

As I type this, I'm on the phone with my credit card company, moving forward on a payment plan to get my credit card debt under control - credit card debt that is due to spending way too much money on a 2015 STR (both on her and on some legal troubles related to her...goodness my bluepillness is gonna destroy me), a 2016-TR that I spent money on instead of getting my debts under control, and the spending habits were the product of spending way too much on women in the first place for years, when that money was cash instead of credit.

Imma break down the money spent on each of my last 3 gfs sometime soon and post it on this board.

Interesting story.

What do you think motivated your spending on them?

I have always been frugal with women. I can't trace it to anything in particular. It seems to be innate in me, except for maybe my memories of my father and his divorce settlement to my mother.

I've always registered a 50/50 split for LTRs or an arrangement that saw me put in less or the same in proportional terms as she did.

Even with temporary bangs I haven't found it hard to get the girl to chip in half for hotels etc.

The girls involved have usually had to sacrifice quite a bit to stay with me. I find forking out for girls intolerable.

Each to their own and I certainly won't diss another man's preferences most of the time, but for me truly outlaying on a girl starts to approach a feeling of prostitution. Intellectually I know this is not especially true, yet emotionally it holds me in.

Born Down Under, but I enjoy Slovakian Thunder: http://slovakia.travel/en/nove-zamky
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#17

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

Im not sure what motivates it. As of now, I'm thinking it could be an inferiority complex.
Years ago I took one of my LTRs to my childhood home and we ordered cheap Mexican food, and she went "this was delicious, see - you don't have to take me to fancy places" and it nearly brought a tear to my eye. This was with an LTR who insisted she pay her way (god bless this girl). This was 6 1/2 years ago and I should have learned my lesson then.

Part of me thinks it's also some sort of mechanism caused by me growing up in a single parent household.

However, this "white knighting" had the drawback of negative feeling (especially with my two most recent relationships) that a lot of times I'd get angry at them for doing something "wrong" (which after reading through this thread, a fair deal of those "wrong" things were women being women and I need to be more patient of that going forward) and bring up all the money I spend on them, like "you should be more grateful to me for what I do, and not act in unpleasant ways because of it." Had my 2016-TR call me out on it and say "I'm grateful for it, but it doesn't mean you can treat me badly."

TL;DR - it could either be an inferiority complex, or a white-knight single mother household complex.
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#18

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

Quote: (02-09-2017 08:21 PM)david.garrett84 Wrote:  

Quote: (02-09-2017 04:27 PM)MaceTyrell Wrote:  

Quote: (02-09-2017 01:47 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

To make things more simple: consider any money you spend on/give to a girl as money gone. Beyond that, don't "invest money" into or with a female unless she is birthing your children.

I'll admit I didn't read the OP as it was long winded and seemed awfully convoluted. The real solution here is to not get a woman mixed up in your personal financial dealings beyond buying her dinner, drinks, gifts, and random shit like that. You're not a bank.

This. My eyes lit up when I saw the title as blowing money on women has been my biggest issue in my 9 1/2 years of racking notches and girlfriends.

As I type this, I'm on the phone with my credit card company, moving forward on a payment plan to get my credit card debt under control - credit card debt that is due to spending way too much money on a 2015 STR (both on her and on some legal troubles related to her...goodness my bluepillness is gonna destroy me), a 2016-TR that I spent money on instead of getting my debts under control, and the spending habits were the product of spending way too much on women in the first place for years, when that money was cash instead of credit.

Imma break down the money spent on each of my last 3 gfs sometime soon and post it on this board.

Interesting story.

What do you think motivated your spending on them?

I have always been frugal with women. I can't trace it to anything in particular. It seems to be innate in me, except for maybe my memories of my father and his divorce settlement to my mother.

I've always registered a 50/50 split for LTRs or an arrangement that saw me put in less or the same in proportional terms as she did.

Even with temporary bangs I haven't found it hard to get the girl to chip in half for hotels etc.

The girls involved have usually had to sacrifice quite a bit to stay with me. I find forking out for girls intolerable.

Each to their own and I certainly won't diss another man's preferences most of the time, but for me truly outlaying on a girl starts to approach a feeling of prostitution. Intellectually I know this is not especially true, yet emotionally it holds me in.

OP - Basically, you learned how a woman could screw you even when cohabiting. I would never want to "prepare to deal with lawyers, judges or banks" over a civil dispute. Men will lose at the end (even if the courts rule in their favor). What's the point of losing losing sleep and dealing with stress to unravel a mess you willfully created? All she needs to say is you broke her heart, and 99% of the public will side with her.

The best way to win a domestic dispute is to avoid it. There should have been sirens when the relationship started to unravel.

I posted my experience here:
thread-50002...pid1478752

I don't care about documenting my finances with a girl unless I'm getting married, which is probably never again. She could flip to the dark side at anytime, and you're the one holding the bills (in a foreign country). When do women ever follow life instructions from a man? She became accustomed to a spoiled life you afforded her.

Men need to be ready to walk away or kick women out at anytime. My approach is always to have more assets than her and protect it. She's the guest. Even if you go 90/10 with bills, she will prevail. It needs to be 100/0 you to her to protect yourself from unsavory female behavior. You can always change the locks, and the police could charge her for unlawful entry or burglary.

If she's hot and had no money, then I'll ride that wave to shore and enjoy it. I'll gladly walk away knowing my ride is over and paddle out again to catch another wave. There's so many normal, funny, hot girls out there. I wouldn't want to spend my time fixing an unstable girl. You will lose at the end.

If she's hot, educated, has a good job, and earns money, then I know this could be a nice and steady FWB or a possible LTR. These girls are fun, think and behave differently. They have resources and care about their reputation.

I never mix the two.
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#19

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

Quote: (02-12-2017 12:06 AM)jabba Wrote:  

She's the guest. Even if you go 90/10 with bills, she will prevail. It needs to be 100/0 you to her to protect yourself from unsavory female behavior. You can always change the locks, and the police could charge her for unlawful entry or burglary.

100/0? No thanks.

I get what you mean, but I think a few people have missed the point of the post.

I am recommending guys record and monitor their finances re girlfriends, yes, but it's not as if I plowed in thousands and thousands while she got a free ride.

She put in thousands towards the relationship (ca. $US8,000) and has tried, somewhat unsuccessfully, to renege on some other amounts. Money was paid recently after a few text messages.

Call it counterintuitive, but I believe the act of recording this stuff actually encouraged her to put more in.

This girl was earning the equivalent of US$2-3 at home in CZ and more (US$10) when working in places like Sweden and London.

I probably fall on the stricter end of RVF members when it comes to expectations of what money women contribute. I'll fuck a girl doing low-paying reception work at the Novotel in Prague and expect her to pay 50/50 for a private night at the Hilton, where her colleagues won't see her.

The present situation with Krystyna has fallen below what I would normally want, but moderately. If I were in her position, I would never have forked out so much.

Born Down Under, but I enjoy Slovakian Thunder: http://slovakia.travel/en/nove-zamky
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#20

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

Rather than arguing about percentages, we should be treating this thread as a new girl hack, the financial equivalent "always be recording" and be sure to get and save a day after text where the girl says she had a good time.

I think the psychology of this idea is sound, and writing stuff down protects you, and if she knows you are doing it, it keeps her from deluding herself that money grows on trees.

It's kind of like how a weight loss journal reminds you of what is really going on.

“The greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents.”

Carl Jung
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#21

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

@david.garrett84 - I know most of this thread is about the financial aspect of relationships with women, but I'm curious about the relationship itself. I also think many relationship issues can carry over into the financial aspects of the relationship.

How long were you with Krystyna and how long were you co-habitating?

What percentage of the time were you cohabiting since you were travelling so much?

You mentioned two other girls, a Russian and Bohemian both of whom lived in Prague, and I think you mentioned other girls in other threads. Were you in an open relationship with Krystyna where both of you could see other people - or could only you see other people - or were you discreetly seeing other girls without Krystyna knowing?

Did Krystyna have the attributes for an LTR that are commonly discussed on this forum - young, virgin or very low notch count, excellent cooking and cleaning skills, etc.?
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#22

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

I dont understand why you were sending her money for your future trips. Why give her your money long before you both want to do something?

With every GF I had I set up new account that we both have acess to and both of us contribute equally to that account. Then we pay for things using that account.
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#23

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

I agree with virtually everything Stalin said, but if a girl I dated for 10 months asked for $1k for 'an emergency,' I would simply ask what for and pay it myself if: 1) she had no money to do so, and 2) I thought it was a genuine emergency. {Of course it goes without saying I can afford it}

No matter what happens I'm still the one in control. And you can always get her to agree it's a loan, although having said that I'd only expect to get paid back if she could make the extra money.
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#24

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

Quote: (02-22-2017 11:28 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  

Rather than arguing about percentages, we should be treating this thread as a new girl hack, the financial equivalent "always be recording" and be sure to get and save a day after text where the girl says she had a good time.

I think the psychology of this idea is sound, and writing stuff down protects you, and if she knows you are doing it, it keeps her from deluding herself that money grows on trees.

It's kind of like how a weight loss journal reminds you of what is really going on.

As I said in another post in this thread, I'm also convinced that recording it encouraged Krystyna to plow in more of her own cash. She wasn't earning much at all and US$8,000 was injected into the relationship by her (this does not include anything else being currently wrangled over). That's a lot more than most upper middle-class Western girls will pay for the same period or longer.

And then there's the cooking, cleaning and everything else she did. I never cooked a meal (does cereal count?) the whole time she and I were together.

Plus, the recorded material means it's pretty hard for her to argue to her friends that she got a raw deal. A few of them asked me what was going on, as she had said I was being an "asshole". I just sent them a snippet of what we had laid down together, particularly things in her own words.

She paid off a chunk of money recently, as the social pressure was starting to bite.

Krystyna really has nowhere to go with this one. She can milk sympathy quietly, but if she pops her head up too much, the facts will just kick her in the ass.

Quote: (02-22-2017 11:59 AM)birthday cat Wrote:  

@david.garrett84 - I know most of this thread is about the financial aspect of relationships with women, but I'm curious about the relationship itself. I also think many relationship issues can carry over into the financial aspects of the relationship.

How long were you with Krystyna and how long were you co-habitating?

What percentage of the time were you cohabiting since you were travelling so much?

You mentioned two other girls, a Russian and Bohemian both of whom lived in Prague, and I think you mentioned other girls in other threads. Were you in an open relationship with Krystyna where both of you could see other people - or could only you see other people - or were you discreetly seeing other girls without Krystyna knowing?

Did Krystyna have the attributes for an LTR that are commonly discussed on this forum - young, virgin or very low notch count, excellent cooking and cleaning skills, etc.?

Krystyna was a virgin when I first met her as friends and I took her virginity. As I answered earlier in this post, she did all the cooking and cleaning.

The relationship was ostensibly exclusive, but I was cheating. I was chasing a lot of girls on the side, including in Brno. But as time went on it became riskier. For example, one girl I was actively courting in Brno told another girl I had tried to court (before I realized the Tinder pics didn't match reality xD) about me. Brno's metro area is only 800,000 and the city proper is smaller. Even in Prague I have run into people I know.

Our co-habitation was 50% of the time in the later stages of the relationship. I was originally going to move to Brno in 2017 so we could look at a 2018 engagement and 90% co-habitation.

Quote: (02-24-2017 12:36 PM)XXL Wrote:  

I dont understand why you were sending her money for your future trips. Why give her your money long before you both want to do something?

With every GF I had I set up new account that we both have acess to and both of us contribute equally to that account. Then we pay for things using that account.

It was just easier. The last trip in which I lived with her required me to go back and forth to Brno fifteen times in the space of several months. Flights and coach rides to places like Manchester, Berlin, Paris, Prague and Budapest.

I don't like comfort and security, but we all need some of it. Having things paid off early or having them ready to be paid off early enabled me to chart out what I was doing.

My life is frenetic, to say the least. Enough travel for me to have six very active Frequent Flyer memberships (each membership including at least 10-12 airlines), regular visits to embassies and consulates for travel visas, and other things.

I would not recommend my exact approach for the presumably 90% of RVF members who travel less than half the amount that I do. My circumstances are somewhat or greatly anomalous.

Born Down Under, but I enjoy Slovakian Thunder: http://slovakia.travel/en/nove-zamky
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#25

The Importance of Managing and Documenting Your Financial Affairs with Women

This whole scenario is far too messy.

I'd rather pay a premium, if there is a premium, for an airBnB long term stay, than allocate the significant mental space this clearly took up, and is still taking up, for you.

In the end, with you likely not getting 100% back, plus the loss of some belongings, wouldn't you have ended up in somewhere close to the same spot if you'd paid a premium, if any, for an airBnB long term stay?

Even if you hadn't, lets say that you did in fact come out ahead, monetarily, wouldn't it still have been worth it to pay extra and avoid this entire mess?

Why did you have her move in with you when you were not living in your place? Why not just have her stay at her place and drop in when you're in town and get out when you're not? She could have a couple of items of clothing at your place if she needs to get to work or college in the morning.

I'm just not seeing the upside to having her move in. The airBnB's I've stayed at were very secure, I could have left my things there for a year, and as long as I paid the rent, no one would be coming in the apartment. I'm sure you could find a place that has a similar level of security.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a case of you trying to save money, overcomplicating things by doing so, and it coming back to bite you in time spent record-keeping and the loss of some belongings as well. In other words, missing the forest for the trees.

Quote: (02-09-2017 05:37 PM)david.garrett84 Wrote:  

1) Pretty much 4/5 red pill men are going to have a partner whose income approximates theirs (50% to 100% of what the man earns). With the housing and other markets being the way they are, what I am saying about managing and documenting is entirely relevant to them.

In regards to the above, I haven't been in that scenario yet, but I see where you're coming from. My last steady girl was 14 years younger (I'm 34, but we started dating when I was 32) and the steady one before that was 8 years younger (I was 26). For the most part, both had no income other than what their parents gave them. One did have a part time job, but I told her to quit it because I wanted her to focus on school, and I didn't think her working for minimum wage as a cashier was worth the distraction. I paid for everything as far as dates, but we're talking movies, dinner, etc., and 107 pound Asian girls don't eat much.

I've never had a girl live with me, I just haven't seen any upside to it. I'll let them spend the night, but letting them move in? Anything's possible, but so far I really like my space. Even if I were to do that, co-mingling finances is another thing altogether, doing that with someone who isn't my wife seems like begging for trouble.

A few years back a childhood friend of mine was really down, his girl had just broken up with him, and he was talking about how they were so close "they had almost bought a house together." The girl was an unwed mother, and they weren't married, just dating. I hadn't seen him in years, but that was one of the key moments where I decided I should keep my distance from him. He was "so close" he was ready to buy a house with her. Then this person he was "so close" to ditches him for whatever reason...how did he not see that risk, it was blatantly obvious to me. Imagine if they had bought the house together? What a mess it would have been.

Quote: (02-09-2017 05:37 PM)david.garrett84 Wrote:  

Inasmuch as it's not ideal, many red pill guys WILL have to pool their resources with their woman, at least prior to having children. If things go south, you need to be ready and know for what you have outlaid money, particularly as things like family court settlements can apply to pre-marriage couples now.

This is very interesting, I hope to never be in that situation, but in finance, hope is a four letter word, so being prepared, as you advocate, is the way to go.

That said, even in that scenario, wouldn't it still be best to just not have her move in, and not co-mingle finances before marriage? Then if you do marry, simply sign a pre-nuptial and then move in together.

I prefer to keep things simple, but this was an interesting post of yours, and these are definitely things that guys have to consider once they start complicating their lives by moving in with people they're sleeping with.

My advice is to not do it.

Let the girl crash at your place, but she knows it's your place and she's just crashing in it. Even if it's most nights of the week, I prefer the space that arrangement affords, versus the other options.
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