[Dalaran1991]

Disclaimer: this assumes you are with a LTR material girl, and that marriage isn't taken into account.

====================

I'm hitting the 2 year mark with my girl soon. Overall Im very satisfied. She is 20, feminine and very pretty. Though I did have to game her hard I admit it was also a bit of luck (being in the right place right time)

She did one stupid thing at the very beginning of the LTR, but did everything she could to make amend and Im very content I gave her the chance.

I wont bother you guys with her background/behavior. A few bits stood out: she spent the last 3 months hand-sewing a scarf for me, enjoyed it so much and is now working on another. Literally all of her money is spent on us or on me.

====================

Now, every LTR has to end. I know this and she knows this too but we're both too young to worry about that. And for me, right now I would like to keep this going for as long as it can be beneficial for both.

Things are going very smoothly, she is pretty low maintenance (in fact she even takes care of me), she just needs A LOT of emotional maintenance but fine by me since its my LTR.

I've been able to keep this going by follow a redpill recipe:

-about 60/40 alpha/beta mix (I hate the terms but for lack of better words). It takes a lot of self awareness to keep a delicate balance as we all know in LTR everyone gravitate towards the beta pole.

-reward her with good experience, NOT gifts/materials. This is pretty big stuff I learned in LTR. Taking your girl to the largest ice skating range under the Grand Palais is way better (and cheaper) than buying her shit. Do buy her shit when you feel like to.

-punish by withdrawing attention/dread game

-spice things up with drama and experiences. Travels are great.

-keep as much of my old social life as possible. As time goes on this becomes increasingly difficult as your lives merge together.

-no living together. No brainer here...

I'm very conscious about the work required to keep it going though, and I can anticipate running out of ideas pretty soon, especially around the 2 years mark. As time goes on its harder and harder to keep things interesting. Plus, as mentioned above, it is very easy to upset the balance in some areas.

Though rare, it does happen that I run out of cool things to say and do with her, and that's when I realize I need help.

Those of you who have had long, meaningful LTR, how did you do it and what kept it going after the 2 years mark? Every bit of wisdom is appreciated.

One idea that gets thrown around a bit, is to game and flirt with your LTR as if you've never met. I would have liked to do this but I'm not sure how, given how much you know each other.

I assume that the girl does a lot of the work too (at least in my case), but most of the work is done by our end.

Thanks gents,

[Cr33pin]

Lot's of sex on the side

[Satoshi]

How do you not get tired of having sex with the same girl for two years? I bang the same girl every week for a month then she doesn't interests me anymore.

[Leonard D Neubache]

For some reason the monogamy doesn't bother me. Some guys are not cut out for traditional relationships. To each their own.

Personally one of the things I had to understand in order to make my marriage last is that sometimes you're just going to have to forgive a woman for being a woman. Broads are crazy. There's not enough blood in the estrogen stream from time to time, and they say things and do things are 100% wrong. Call them out on it, maintain frame, wait for the drama to pass, get your apology, forgive them, then have really good sex.

Relationships are not 50/50. The man always has to (aptly) be the bigger man.

[Elster]

I'll start posting a comic that explains the proccess tongue in cheek but I fear painfully true in many ways .
Then I 'll post my reflections on keeping a 2 years+ LTR as I am currently in that situation.





It doesnt neccesarily needs to end, the adage of leaving the table on a winning streak may apply when several signs point out you got the best possible fit.

Sure, you might think there is so much more out there to see and do in terms of fermale fauna but it is very unlikely that if you ever hit gold,you'll hit it twice.

Does that mean oneitis or one sided self deingrating "commitment"? Hell no!
But if she succesfuly completes your expectations and mantains a healthy pace for both of you. Why discard it?
Specially when you've had the luck to pluck a fine young caring specimen not fully tainted by the cultural currents of the time!

Do bear in mind that you also won't be young and fresh forever and at a certain point you will start craving a more stable companionship and cooperation.

I am in a very similar situation to yours, and I often find myself having to reach a compromise between our seemingly opposed interests when the situation arises (invariably) but so far to my current perception the investment is worth the inevitable minor conflicts and as long as it keeps me feeling as if I am obtaining a satsifactory return (emotional,spiritual,financial or what label you prefer).
The upsides is that we have similar interests with the right amount of discrepancies in order to keep it interesting and allowing us to work together (we're both creative types but she's more grounded and family oriented where as I tend to be bit more of a dreamer and got used to being a lone stray)

Of course, I'm likely at a different stage than you.
But I feel this is the one plant I should water if I want the fruit I seek, the time is ripe for me ,so to speak.
Our meeting was unexpected, the maintenance of our relation even more so.
Therefore I am compromising in order to obtain what I hope will be a greater yield and I wouldn't mind growing old together and continue creating things with her should I be so lucky...

[iknowexactly]

I came from happily married parents, so for me a marriage LTR has always been what I wanted. I'm over 50.

I also want to live with a girl, coming home to an empty house is depressing and I highly dislike gaming women. Since my time is 90% my own ( independent income) I don't want to be alone all the time. I also think -- health-wise -- primates like us are not designed biologically to be without stimuli from other living creatures a huge proportion of the time.

I've also said before, "The older you get the more everyone new you meet will be like someone you have already known. So the value of meeting new people who aren't extraordinary goes down. Also, you should have collected associates who are extraordinary already and be allocating your time to them, which leaves less room for new ones. "

For me, without living together love is a game of hide and seek. Who is she with? When will she upgrade/downgrade?

I've accepted after hearing some Indian guru say it-- "All relationships are temporary" -- at some point you're both dust, but I don't want it on my mind as a constant fallback, although I do explicitly say during power struggles/shit tests ( see below) that she has to engage in power struggles elsewhere, not in my house.

I've come to the conclusion there are important elements I've only recently discovered:

1) Fundamental early agreement that "I am the boss", explicitly agreed to out loud at the start of the relationship. She's free to go any time, but in my house she obeys my rules. For some reason the cliche "A ship can only have one captain" seems to make it less political and more practical and they don't rebel against it as much as "Because I'm the man." I highly emphasize that I only judge on behavior, and "accidents" and "forgetting" are considered intentional. Within reason. Words mean little to me, only action.

The "one captain" metaphor may have more wisdom in it than appears at first sight: It contains the assumption that you are TOGETHER in an environment that is dangerous, and REQUIRES you to stay together -- unless one person jumps off the ship. It implies the mutual survival facet of a relationship, and the realization that the world is not your friend -- or the friend of your relationship.

2) One thing I've learned from previous failures is how to differentiate a legitimate disagreement from a power struggle, more commonly known as a "shit test" in PUA parlance.

You can waste a LOT of time arguing about which microwave to get, and get nothing done -- but if you see that this particular dispute is really a power struggle about something else-- you can label it as that and remind her that you are the head of the family, and power struggles are not allowed. The fundamental rule is I am the boss in everything. Not in every DETAIL, but in important decisions. I explain that specifically: Power struggles are not allowed, and once I identify what's happening as a power struggle I explain that it has to be my way or she leaves, not because one microwave is better than the other, but because power struggles are never allowed, and she must always back down or leave.

This may or may not lead to discussion of the REAL disagreement, which is about something valid, like her not being allowed to drink. ( She has a badly alcoholic father.) I'm still determining if she can have "just one"-- she has sometimes, but once she had three and was rude so I don't allow her to drink for now.

3) I make it clear there is no alteration of the "one captain" policy and that she has to leave ( and implicitly get a job) if she wants equal say in her living space. I also keep in mind FOR MYSELF I have to be willing to live without her and not give over authority. I have the advantage over many men that I lived alone for decades and know I can survive it. But I am less depressed and more productive with a good woman around.

4) NOT being the dictator #1 and #2 sound like. I'm very affectionate, verbally and physically, I make sure to discuss her future (I'm decades older) and how to make sure things go well for her, as I will presumably predecease her. I advise her which things to learn to make money and praise her efforts to do so. I take care about her health care and nutrition.

I ask her opinion frequently on what movies to watch, recreational stuff so we're both having fun. I praise her on her helpfulness ( she constantly cleans and cooks and helps me on creative projects.)

We both benefit greatly from this relationship.

Was it Mencken that said "Love is the illusion that one woman is significantly different than another"?

Of course it should be stated that one has to screen rigorously from the beginning for the kind of woman who will tolerate an explicit man-led relationship. I wouldn't expect it to be practical outside of Asia or EE. You'd have to do it sub rosa in USA.

[iknowexactly]

(01-28-2017 04:10 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

For some reason the monogamy doesn't bother me. Some guys are not cut out for traditional relationships. To each their own.

Personally one of the things I had to understand in order to make my marriage last is that sometimes you're just going to have to forgive a woman for being a woman. Broads are crazy....

Relationships are not 50/50. The man always has to (aptly) be the bigger man.

I think this is important to realize.

A corollary is sometimes women are shocked at how they've backed themselves into a corner with their insanity. They have a fairy-tale idea of how relationships can be, and it can be devastating when they realize you think they're idiots after they do something totally rude and destructive.

I inoculate against this by saying when you live together there will always be come friction, everyone gets annoying sometimes etc. I advocate for the healthy communication of likes and dislikes as the solution.

She can see if you are calm and optimistic everything will be OK, although there are some "capitol offenses" which end her contract.

[zatara]

Three main things:

- Don't drown your social life in the relationship. Make efforts to keep in contact with your friends. So many men just stop hanging out with their male friends when they're in long term relationships. This makes them completely dependent on their girlfriend. Which A) weakens your position massively in the relationship as your gf/wife will be aware of this dependency and B) just means you're screwed socially if/when you eventually break-up.

- Don't get too comfortable in your relationship. Don't stop talking to women and let your game atrophy. Don't let yourself get fat or lazy. Always lightly flirt with girls on nights out (even with your girlfriend there). Maintain your fitness level if you were single, and still had that drive. So many men end up turning into fat slobs who never talk to other women when they're in long term relationships. It means while they're in the relationship they lose the respect of their gf/wife, because she knows they'll never do better. And it means they're completely screwed when they're single again. Theres nothing better for a relationship (from a man's perspective) than your gf/wife seeing an attractive girl trying to flirt with you - it maintains your position as a high status man with options in her eyes. Which will keep her on her toes.

- One night stands on the side. I think affairs are far too dangerous (way too many ways to get caught) but if you're smart about one night stands they can be almost impossible to catch. Going to a different city to visit a college friend, or traveling with friends, or going on work trips, provide the perfect excuse. I don't really think any young man with decent game will be happy with just one woman for years on end. Having one night stands in distant cities is the responsible way of satisfying this craving without damaging your relationship.

[Steelex]

Never have LTRs unless you're planning on having a kid with her. Total waste of time.

[Dalaran1991]

Lots of good ideas, and it looks to me it always revolve around the core principle: you lead the frame + set boundaries; try to maintain as much of an independent life as possible.

Quote:

Personally one of the things I had to understand in order to make my marriage last is that sometimes you're just going to have to forgive a woman for being a woman. Broads are crazy. There's not enough blood in the estrogen stream from time to time, and they say things and do things are 100% wrong. Call them out on it, maintain frame, wait for the drama to pass, get your apology, forgive them, then have really good sex.

I've come to accept this recently too, and it actually ties in with what XXL said about small argument vs power struggle. Sometimes girls will just be annoying, not because they want to annoy you or shit test you, quite the contrary. I always get an apology after she's done with her tantrum, either verbally or not.

What I find really hard to do is when arguments like this arise, and you know that you are actually wrong (yeah new flash nobody is perfect, even redpill guys). In which case its pretty delicate to accept what she said and save face / concede gracefully. Ex: I still keep the old bad habits of going to bed late from college, but she must be in bed at 9pm and up at 7am. By all reasons she has the right of it, but a lot of the time I still feel like "its my house and I sleep whenever the fuck I want", but even I know that it sounds like a whelp rebelling from his mom.

She doesnt drink nor smoke and she doesnt like it at all when I have a drink or two. Again, I know that ideally I should cut out the alcohol, but nothing wrong with a man having his poison once in a while.

About flirting with other girls: I feel like this is a double edge sword. I certainly do it pretty low key, but more to keep my game sharp rather than to broadcast to her that I have options.

This is an inner game issue IMO. A man who truly has options, but is actually happy with his LTR, doesnt try to broadcast that to his girl, simply because he knows he is the shit. Being flirty in her presence intentionally feels to me like overcompensating, as well as ungraceful (intentionally or not)

What's more: it implies to her that she could do the same. A girl takes lead from her man. If you are flirting with other girls, by all rights she can flirt with other guys, then it would turn into some fucked up open relationship, or you part way. Brilliant.

The thing is, if she is a good girl (which is the assumption in the OP), she will not flirt with other guys even if you do with other girls, in which case its neither fair nor respectful to her. I keep an eye on my girl all the time. While we're out and about I still look at all the merchandise on display or be more than eager to chat some girls up, and that drives my girl nut. Of course I shit and giggles about it, but I have to be careful not to overdo it. She however, very rarely stray her sight, even when I pretend to not watching.

I dont have trouble fucking the same girl over and over however. My girl is hot enough to please me sexually and I like having a girl who knows how to please me, since it takes a lot to get me off. I've been through my ONS phase and I frankly didnt enjoy the sex. Sex with new girls often suck and since I only hit on girls I really like, I have to put on your A game to please her, often at my detriment. With a LTR its more reciprocal.

[Leonard D Neubache]

My general rule for maintaining game while in an LTR is to flirt while I'm out solo and get to the point where I could easily escalate. Then I decide "mission accomplished" and walk away.

When I'm out with the wife I just maintain masculine frame and try to be the guy that the women we meet wish was on their arm instead of my wife's. There are times that she gets shitty because service girls ignore her and seem extra nice to me by comparison, but humans are genetically inclined to guard their resources so that's natural. What's important is that she remains aware that my fidelity is a matter of choice, not a matter of a lack of options. Abusive and shitty marriages often began to turn sour when the wife got the impression that her husband was such a loser that he wasn't capable of walking out and finding younger pussy.

[cascadecombo]

(01-28-2017 03:46 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  

How do you not get tired of having sex with the same girl for two years? I bang the same girl every week for a month then she doesn't interests me anymore.

gotta love basic bitches.

[RatInTheWoods]

(01-28-2017 03:46 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  

How do you not get tired of having sex with the same girl for two years? I bang the same girl every week for a month then she doesn't interests me anymore.

Newsflash: having sex with a high quality women that you have feelings for is 100 times better than "banging a new bitch every week"

It takes months to train them in the arts of pleasing me.

They also get to learn how you like your food cooked, how you like the back rub etc.

I couldn't be assed teaching that to a new "bitch" every week.

[Cr33pin]

(01-28-2017 10:55 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 03:46 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  

How do you not get tired of having sex with the same girl for two years? I bang the same girl every week for a month then she doesn't interests me anymore.

Newsflash: having sex with a high quality women that you have feelings for is 100 times better than "banging a new bitch every week"

It takes months to train them in the arts of pleasing me.

They also get to learn how you like your food cooked, how you like the back rub etc.

I couldn't be assed teaching that to a new "bitch" every week.

I'm not arguing that you can train a girl to know and do all the things you like inside and outside the bedroom. However no matter how great and attached to a girl I get I always want some strange. The Coolidge effect is real, an perhaps it effects some more then others.

I love steak... cooked over medium over charcoal.. cut it up dip it into some A1 sauce and its probably my favorite food ever. But after two years of eating steak everyday I am gonna crave a cheeseburger.

The opposite is also true though... When I got to South America or Asia an I go on a bang mission and I'm fucking a new girl everyday, after a week I'm fucking over it. An miss my LTR an all the perks that came with it. Being a man that craves banging new girls all the time is a disease. I have't found the cure yet, but I'm having fun looking for it.

[zatara]

(01-28-2017 07:57 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

About flirting with other girls: I feel like this is a double edge sword. I certainly do it pretty low key, but more to keep my game sharp rather than to broadcast to her that I have options.

This is an inner game issue IMO. A man who truly has options, but is actually happy with his LTR, doesnt try to broadcast that to his girl, simply because he knows he is the shit. Being flirty in her presence intentionally feels to me like overcompensating, as well as ungraceful (intentionally or not)

What's more: it implies to her that she could do the same. A girl takes lead from her man. If you are flirting with other girls, by all rights she can flirt with other guys, then it would turn into some fucked up open relationship, or you part way. Brilliant.

The thing is, if she is a good girl (which is the assumption in the OP), she will not flirt with other guys even if you do with other girls, in which case its neither fair nor respectful to her. I keep an eye on my girl all the time. While we're out and about I still look at all the merchandise on display or be more than eager to chat some girls up, and that drives my girl nut. Of course I shit and giggles about it, but I have to be careful not to overdo it. She however, very rarely stray her sight, even when I pretend to not watching.

I dont have trouble fucking the same girl over and over however. My girl is hot enough to please me sexually and I like having a girl who knows how to please me, since it takes a lot to get me off. I've been through my ONS phase and I frankly didnt enjoy the sex. Sex with new girls often suck and since I only hit on girls I really like, I have to put on your A game to please her, often at my detriment. With a LTR its more reciprocal.

To be clear, I don't mean aggressively seeking out girls to flirt with to make your girlfriend jealous. That would just reek of desperation. I may have phrased that badly - I just mean being open to letting other girls flirt with you. Its more about the girlfriend seeing other girls hitting on you than the other way around.

On monogamy, having sex with a girl who knows how to please you is great. But Cr33pin's steak analogy is spot on. You can love your favorite, high quality steak dinner above all else - but sometimes you just crave Indian food. Or Thai. Or Ethiopian.

With being in a relationship but cheating on the side you can have both. Both the regular, well trained relationship sex and the odd exciting one night stand with random strange. To quote Boris Johnson, its having your cake and eating it too.

[This Is Trouble]

(01-29-2017 03:28 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 10:55 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 03:46 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  

How do you not get tired of having sex with the same girl for two years? I bang the same girl every week for a month then she doesn't interests me anymore.

Newsflash: having sex with a high quality women that you have feelings for is 100 times better than "banging a new bitch every week"

It takes months to train them in the arts of pleasing me.

They also get to learn how you like your food cooked, how you like the back rub etc.

I couldn't be assed teaching that to a new "bitch" every week.

I love steak... cooked over medium over charcoal.. cut it up dip it into some A1 sauce and its probably my favorite food ever. But after two years of eating steak everyday I am gonna crave a cheeseburger.

You use A1 sauce with a quality steak, says all I need to know about you

[Serious Sam]

Currently on my second relationship to reach the two year mark:

1) Lead by example, not words. Too many men get the wrong impression that they can simply bark orders or make suggestions and the woman should follow them. As an example, I gained about 15 pounds after getting in a relationship. She also gained a little weight. I said, "We need to start eating healthier and go to the gym." For a couple of weeks, she didn't, and neither did I. So then I went to the store and bought groceries, went to the gym, tracked calories, all that jazz, and what do you know? She started putting together a grocery list, started hitting the gym, and losing weight with me. She followed my example.

2) Continue improving upon yourself. Stay in shape, work hard, make more money, and build your knowledge. If shit goes south, you're in perfect shape to immediately jump back into the game.

3) You can vet out the ones worth staying with very early in the relationship. If you're hurt or sick, does she take care of you or is she a bitch who goes out and does her own thing? Does she treat wait staff well, or is she an uppity cunt? If she treats strangers badly, it's only a matter of time before she turns that on you.

4) Side pieces aren't for everyone. Gauge the risk/reward of any affairs to your relationship. If you want a family, or have a kid with her, is it worth it to get some strange if shit could blow up if you get caught? Plus some guys don't have the mentality for it. They feel way too guilty and get way too stressed while dreaming up the consequences.

5) The more exciting experiences you share with her, the stronger her attachment will grow. Taking her to new cities and seeking out new adventures will engage her emotional side and allow her mind to attach fun, high energy events to you. The more confident you are traversing a strange land, the more she'll see you as a rock that can't be moved. Too many relationships get stagnant because people do the same shit over and over again. Mix things up and you can be both the edgy, wild guy girls crave, while still maintaining the consistency that's necessary for a family and marriage to thrive.

[General Stalin]

To answer your question of how to keep things going:

Have kids.

That is the biologically natural "next stage" of a serious and committed relationship once you have gotten very comfortable with eachother and fucked eachother's brains out enough. Having sex, going places, and eating at new restaurants is only interesting for so long until both of you know eachother too well to stay interested without bringing your relationship to the next level.

This is what humans used to do before we became afraid of reproducing.

[birthday cat]

(01-28-2017 03:01 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Those of you who have had long, meaningful LTR, how did you do it and what kept it going after the 2 years mark? Every bit of wisdom is appreciated.

One thing that worked for me was keeping some separation and time apart. You won't get bored as easily or have her negative attributes annoy you as easily if you aren't seeing her everyday. If I ever go down the marriage or kids path then I will want to have a separate residence even if it is something as simple as a small bed at an office so that I can get away. This also allows you to use Soft Nexts which can't be used if you live together and have no other place to go.

(01-28-2017 02:14 PM)Steelex Wrote:  

Never have LTRs unless you're planning on having a kid with her. Total waste of time.

I disagree. There are plenty of situations where LTRs make sense, such as someone who is very busy with work or school and can get laid from his LTR but doesn't want to spend time pursuing girls for one night stands. Some guys will also want to pair bond without having kids.

[MaceTyrell]

So much gold in this thread. Especially Serious Sam's post - I gotta remember this for whenever I'm ready for another LTR.

My 2c on it though - all my good LTRs have been with girls who asked for exclusivity/to be my girlfriend, and they started as plates/side pieces.

[Rawmeo]

First, the basics: Do not get into a LTR if the girl isn't marriage material. You'll waste your time, waste hers, and go nowhere. It's perfectly okay to have mini-relationships and have feelings for plates that you are spinning (and probably sharing a few things beyond sex). But before you move in with a girl, or take things to the next level, she must be the girl you want to have kids with, otherwise it's a dead end and you'll know all along that you are both wasting your time.

Now, suppose that you have a girl that you believe to be "the one". You need 3 things to keep things going:
1) Reciprocated love
2) Common interests
3) "Diversity" (not what you're thinking)

Let's go deeper.

1) Reciprocated love

You musn't come home thinking "fuck, I hope she's not here, I want to order chinese food and game". You must be happy to see her home, and it must be the same both sides. If anything makes you unhappy about her, you must clear things as soon as they arise. A small scratch in the windshield becomes bigger if not treated properly.

2) Common interests

This can be solved by making her discover new hobbies, but in general, she must enjoy coming to your activites. If you love driving motorcycles fast, she must enjoy seeing you do that, and encourage you. If you are a musician, she must enjoy listening to you and being in your company. It's important to make her discover new things. For example, I made mine try snowboarding. She sucks at it, but enjoys to come with me and try anyway, which in return makes me happy.

3) Diversity

The worst relationship killer is monotony. Coming back from work at the same time, having the same everyday routine, etc. This is a HUGE killer. You must spice your life up: Out of the blue, invite her to a new place, plan a trip (ensure that she also pays for things, unless you have other arrangements). And while we're at it: Yes, it is okay for men to have side chicks, as they help boost your love for your main LTR.

Once you have those 3 things together, everything should work out. That's how I manage to get through with my wife. I bang on the side, she suspects it but sweeps it under the rug, but in exchange, she's treated good.

To top this off, I'd like to say, never lose frame with your LTR. For example, if she complains, she needs to be punished or called out on it. Don't take shit from anyone, including your family / wife / kids. She needs to be reminded that you are the prize, and that you're not granted.

[fugly1000]

Cheat

[Itsbrokeagain]

My former LTR was nearly 4 years, and was pretty much ready to put a ring on it when I found out she was doing another dude on the side while I was at work. I went from alpha-ish to complete beta and got complacent/pudgy/lazy.

Not to mention we did a lot of the same things over and over, and we weren't planning to have any kids.

I took off for almost 3 years after that, doing some light gaming but pretty much just working on me, getting back to how I used to be in the gym, lost the weight and got my hustle going hard.

Due to my work schedule and all the overtime I do it became difficult to even make time to see women. What extra time I had was spent in the gym or sleeping, and oddly enough I met my next LTR at the same gym. We're going on a year and a half but I have a MUCH different mindset now compared to last time (thanks to you guys here).

What everyone said in here is pretty much right. I keep it different, sure we have our fallback places to go eat/drink but we always try to hit up a different brewery at least once a month. Vacations are always somewhere new (although I'd like to call Turks my second home), and I've kept my social life.

She pretty much wants the same things I do and works just as hard to reach those goals, along with being a great cook as well as neat and orderly (she loves being in the kitchen). Kids were once never a proposition for me but after playing with so many of my friends kids I think it'd be kind of fun to have one or two.