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Islam and Marital Relationships
#1

Islam and Marital Relationships

Read this article by Sheikh Noah Keller, a sufi-muslim teacher on the requirements for a sound marriage. Been lurking for a while, nice to finally contribute something.

http://untotheone.com/articles/articles-...ge-advice/

Interestingly he also wrote a letter to the Christians of Ukraine, a country commonly mentioned on these forums for its more positive culture.
http://untotheone.com/articles/letters/c...he-ukrain/

4. That the husband be the man of the family. The way of the prophets, the Sufi sheikhs, and of Islam, is that the man leads, supports, guides, and takes care of his wife and family. Allah says, “Men are keepers over women, because Allah has favored the one above the other, and because they expend of their wealth: So righteous women are worshipful, faithfully guarding their honor when their husbands are gone, as Allah has guarded them” (Qur’an 4:34). A man does not throw his weight around with meaningless orders, but is not the obsequious follower of the woman Allah has made him keeper of. He rather asks Allah to guide him in his decisions, listens to what wisdom his wife may offer, and then follows his best judgement, returning especially in the big decisions to his own istikhara.

5. That the wife be the woman of the family. There is a lot of bad advice around today about marriage that is far from any meaningful appreciation of men’s and women’s different natures. In previous ages of Islamic history, there was no need to advise anyone about the roles of men and women. But in our times, current cultural norms consider men and women interchangeable, forbid men to be men, and few wives can look up to the sapless males the theories have created. The present rules of behavior between men and women are merely adequate for how long most marriages today last.

We advise ladies in the tariqa to read and apply Fascinating Womanhood, which contains the best description of the akhlaq or proper way of handling oneself necessary for any woman who wants her marriage to succeed. Some of its remarks about the bedroom and women’s education are inapplicable to an Islamic context, but these are easily distinguished from the rest, and everyone who has followed the book has found that it works. Ladies find that once they start acting femininely, their men are able to respond with a manly sense of loving and protecting a woman. Women in the tariqa have also found a lot of benefit from The Surrendered Wife. A third work is Happy Housewives, especially useful for women affected by modern corporate values, though the author’s diction is occasionally indelicate.

The Man Seeking a Wife

The qualities praised by the sunna in a prospective wife are that she be religious, intelligent, amiable and well-mannered, fertile (as inferable from her mother or female relatives), from a good family, a virgin, pleasing in appearance, undesirous of an exorbitant marriage payment, and not a close family relative.

When seeking to marry a woman, the prospective suitor should make his intention for Allah, then send someone, preferably a family member, to her family to ask for a chaperoned meeting with her. The messenger should be someone who will honestly tell them how he is. He should inquire about the prospective bride from a religious and reliable informant, and not

for example someone who bears malicious tales (namima) between people. Women are better to send, as they normally notice details more closely than men, and can meet with her and her female family members. He should ask about her religiousness; her diligence in prayer and fasting; her shyness, reserve, and modesty; her personal cleanliness; her chasteness of speech; whether she stays at home; and how well she respects her parents. He should ask about the character of her father, and about her mother’s behavior, religion, and works.

It is a key sunna to then personally meet with the woman, to sit and talk with her as many times as it takes to make up his mind about marriage. The man and woman should make sure they communicate well, are comfortable with and like each other, and are on the same page in their religion. The man should not admire in the woman qualities admirable only in a man. It is better to avoid the “student type” whose mother has served her all her life with every conceivable labor at home to free her to study, hence never learned common sense, how to work, cook, clean, run a house, take care of children, or make a home comfortable. Nor should a prospective spouse come from a dysfunctional family, broken home, or household dominated by an aggressive mother. If a family seems a bit off, it usually is. If the prospective bride has debts, he must think of how they will be paid off. He should pray istikhara a few times after learning what he can about her.

The Woman Receiving a Marriage Proposal

Much of the preceding advice may be equally given to the woman whose hand is sought in marriage. She should send a reliable informant to ask about the man’s madhhab, his religiousness, his taqwa, tenets of faith, personal manliness and respectability, and whether he is true to his word. She should ask about his family and relatives, his group affiliations, who visits him, how diligently he keeps the prayer, and his uprightness and goodness at work.

The man should be financially responsible and have successfully held down a job for some time working, preferably for someone besides his father. A husband has to know how to work. The man should be religious, not high-handed, arrogant, sinful, or have heretical views. He should not be spoiled, meaning self-centered, quick to anger, and in need of instant gratification of his whims. A mama’s boy should be shunned. In our times, he should be free of addictions, meaning not only to illicit substances, but to pornography, gaming, blogging, endless surfing online, restauranting, the entertainment industry, adrenaline, and to the host of vices purveyed by the Internet to the profit of a few and ruin of many. Addictions destroy marriages. She should not hope to rehabilitate the man, but realize that “what you see is what you get.”

She should want him for his religion rather than his wealth, and the way he conducts his life rather than his fame. She should resolve to live with him in contentment with their means and to obey his commands, for that ensures affection and love.

One sin that often brings unlooked-for misfortune in marriage is revealing sins to another. In Islam to mention past sins is itself a sin. Allah has commanded us to hide all acts of disobedience, except when it would lead to actual harm to another. The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) has said, “Whoever conceals the faults of a Muslim, Allah will conceal his faults in this world and the next” (Muslim [00], 4.2074: 2699. S). This includes one’s own sins; and whether from one’s spouse, prospective spouse, or anyone else. It includes previous illicit sex, which is haram to mention and obligatory to conceal, even by deception if necessary. The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said:

All of my Umma shall be forgiven, except those who commit iniquities openly. Verily, open indecency includes a man committing an act by night, and then in the morning when Allah has concealed what he did, saying, “O So-and-so, last night I did such and such.” He spent the night with his Lord having concealed what he did; and when morning came, he pulled aside the veil of Allah (Bukhari [00], 8.24: 6069. S).

Imam Nawawi mentions this hadith under the rubric of “the prohibition of pulling aside the cover from one’s sins” (Sharh Muslim [00], 18.119). How many a person was unable to resist telling a friend or a spouse of the wickedness they did in their former life, and Allah requited them with contempt in the other’s heart that could never be erased, because there is no baraka in the haram. All of which refers to sins now finished, as opposed to ongoing habitual problems such as addictions, which the person asked about must truthfully disclose to a prospective marriage partner, since, like defects in a spouse that permit annulment of marriage, addictions ruin marriages, and the partner must know about them in advance to reach an informed decision.

The Husband

A man should be his wife’s friend, pleasant and courteous in speech, show her love and affection, and be relaxed and informal when they are alone. He should overlook occasional missteps, forgive mistakes, defend her honor, seldom argue with her, honor her family, continually promise her the best, and have the manly jealousy to keep matters between her and other men from exceeding permissible limits.

He should be calm and chivalrous with his wife, well-mannered, patient, and tender, and know how to dispel tensions and arguments with jokes, ridiculous asides, and amorous liberties. He doesn’t have to prove he is tough, but should always mean what he says. and not humor his wife’s whims or be so soft-hearted or indulgent that he worsens her character and turns her a domineering tyrant. If she has no adab or respect for him, he should send her back to her family

until she wants to be a wife. Whenever he sees something ethically wrong, he should be grave and critical. He should be moderate and fair, buying her gifts and flowers, paying admiring compliments, and spending ungrudgingly on her necessities. He is neither stingy, nor wastefully lavish in buying things of little enjoyment or benefit. He should leave the house to work during the day, even if wealthy, because it is difficult for a wife to respect a husband who hangs around the house.

If a man has two wives, he should be strictly equitable in time, attention, and advantages to both, and not let one bully or enamor him into being unfair to the other. With Imam Shafi‘i and all of our sheikhs I regard such equity as so difficult for most people to manage that marriage to more than one wife is religiously “superior not to do” (khilaf al-awla) under ordinary circumstances. Shafi‘i’s position is borne out by the word of Allah “You shall never be able to be completely fair between wives, however much you want to; So do not incline so wholly towards one that you leave the other one hanging; And if you set matters right, and prevent unfairness, verily Allah is oft-forgiving, all-compassionate” (Qur’an 4:129).

As a Muslim man, a husband should be clean in dress, make frequent use of the breath-freshening tooth-stick (siwak), and wear clothes neither intended to draw attention nor yet mean and sordid. He does not keep his hem low out of pride or high to appear ascetic. He attends the Friday prayer, always prays in a group, and does much dhikr and worship. He does not gawk around him while walking, look at other women than his wife, sit on the doorstep of his house with neighbors, or talk much with his friends about his wife and what takes place in his home.

The Wife

A woman should be her husband’s friend, while keeping a respectful shyness towards him, avoiding arguing with him, obeying his word in everything lawful. She should hold her peace when he speaks, keep his honor when he is away, and not treacherously take his property. She should smell pleasant, care well for her teeth and clothes, be content with her standard of living, be tender and loving, and keep up her appearance. She should honor his family and relatives, be appreciative for him, accept his deeds with gratitude, and show him her happiness when she sees him. She should give her husband first priority and attention rather than her children.

Otherwise, husbands eventually get tired of being ignored, spend increasingly long hours away from home, and begin talking about divorce or getting a second wife.

As a Muslim woman, she should prefer to be in her own home, taking care of her house and children, making sure that both are clean and orderly. She should learn her religion to properly practice it and raise her children Islamically. Her ambition should lie in perfecting herself. She should faithfully perform her prayer and fasting, study her own faults, and think of her religion. She should speak little, not waste time on pointless conversations, and lower her gaze. She should be vigilant of her Lord, make much dhikr, encourage her husband to seek and earn the halal, and not ask for many gifts from him. She should be shy and modest, neither harsh or coarse in word, have fortitude, be thankful, prefer others to herself, and be generous with herself and her effort. If a friend of her husband calls when he is not at home, she does not admit him, seek to understand his purpose, or speak with him at length—out of jealousy for her honor and that of her husband.
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#2

Islam and Marital Relationships

Makes sense.

Beliefs are more powerful than facts.
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#3

Islam and Marital Relationships

Muslims feel weak, so they create a set of rules and mandations to make it easier for them to feel in control . It excludes free-will which is what makes us human. It's what sets us apart from others-- the ideation behind freedom and choice.

I have little respect for those men. If you can't handle the fight, get the fuck out the ring, instead of relying on a magic book with a fancy cover to demand that a woman is more submissive and will bow down to you as you request regardless of your masculinity, integrity, worth, and understating of sexual tension.

I get sick of men in the manosphere claiming Islam is a masculine religion. It's not; it's as weak and fragile as they come. A masculine man, a strong man, a man that has his shit together in his head, doesn't run around hurting women or demanding that a woman cover her face, sit in the back of the car, or do this and that because she was born with homogametic chromosomes. It's the weak minded ones that do that , those who lack logic and reason and are controlled by the slavery of their own jealousy and emotional impulses without the capability to control it under pressure.
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#4

Islam and Marital Relationships

At the end of the day, because of their codification they are able to better maintain societies of sound social order. Look at all the countries that gamers go to for quality women. These countries typically have they're religious and or traditional value systems still somewhat intact.

Point two; if you double-check the above you'll notice that the admonitions go both ways. A man is advised to behave in a sound masculine manner, and a women vice versa. How different is this from the way we approach things in pick-up? The difference being that they do it for God and we do it for Self. edit: I think both do it for self, the difference being they do it for the after-life and we do it for this-life

So many PUA / players believe in a higher power and/or religion that I find it hard to buy the argument that people of faith are somehow too weak to handle a woman.
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#5

Islam and Marital Relationships

Quote: (01-27-2017 12:14 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

Muslims feel weak, so they create a set of rules and mandations to make it easier for them to feel in control . It excludes free-will which is what makes us human. It's what sets us apart from others-- the ideation behind freedom and choice.

I have little respect for those men. If you can't handle the fight, get the fuck out the ring, instead of relying on a magic book with a fancy cover to demand that a woman is more submissive and will bow down to you as you request regardless of your masculinity, integrity, worth, and understating of sexual tension.

I get sick of men in the manosphere claiming Islam is a masculine religion. It's not; it's as weak and fragile as they come. A masculine man, a strong man, a man that has his shit together in his head, doesn't run around hurting women or demanding that a woman cover her face, sit in the back of the car, or do this and that because she was born with homogametic chromosomes. It's the weak minded ones that do that , those who lack logic and reason and are controlled by the slavery of their own jealousy and emotional impulses without the capability to control it under pressure.

A lot of Muslim men are cowards who can't deal with the real world and try to shelter themselves from it. I've had a similar conversation to this a couple of times with Muslim guys over the years:

Me: Hey we're going for a drink after work, you should come and join us.
Muslim: I shouldn't go there, I don't drink
Me: It's cool, have a coke or juice.
Muslim: Yeah, but they serve alcohol there
Me: Yeah, but nobody's gonna force you to drink
Muslim: I get it, but I shouldn't be in places that serve alcohol
Me: What are you on about? There's plenty of places that serve alcohol. So you don't shop at your local shop or at the supermarket? They sell alcohol there.
Muslim: Yeah, I do shop there
Me: So what's wrong with you? Is it that if you see alcohol you're suddenly gonna start guzzling it down?
Muslim: No of course not.
Me: So you can control yourself around alcohol?
Muslim: Yeah
Me: So are you coming to the bar?
Muslim: ........
Me: Yes or No?
Muslim: Sorry, I need to go home
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Some of them act very weird around women. I remember working with one Pakistani guy who would walk behind me so I would block his view of women. He said he's not supposed to look at them. How thirsty must a man be if the mere sight of a woman makes him lose his marbles?
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During my undergraduate degree in London I knew a lot of Muslim engineering students who were total losers. They got more devout over the years and called Muslim women who lived a "western" lifestyles sluts. What did these fuckers do in their spare time? Watch porn and go to strip clubs.

Most of these guys married their cousins from Pakistan after graduation.
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There are many Muslims who are mentally weak and use the religion as a crutch..

I remember a Muslim woman saying that I'm lucky that I'm not a Muslim because I can drink, do drugs, screw around etc. She said the only thing stopping her doing that was Islam.
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#6

Islam and Marital Relationships

Saying "there's good stuff about islam" is like saying "chronic AIDS helped me lose weight".

The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
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#7

Islam and Marital Relationships

How do the "checking her out" visits work though? Like, how does he know what he's getting? Does she wear body-tight clothes and walk around the room for him before they start talking?
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#8

Islam and Marital Relationships

Quote: (01-29-2017 04:25 AM)Leonard D Neubache pid=
'1497028 Wrote:


Saying "there's good stuff about islam" is like saying "chronic AIDS helped me lose weight".

Post of the day. Made me laugh. But I do agree with certain Islamic principles.

Burying the dead on the same day in a simple cloth instead of expensive coffin.
The ban on alcohol.
Modest dressing for women.
No kings or royalty.
Death penalty for drug dealing.
Low tolerance for homosexuality.
Polygamy. (There are more men than women.)

I read somewhere that Arabic countries have low rates of violent crime and Stds.

Beliefs are more powerful than facts.
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#9

Islam and Marital Relationships

Some people use Islam as an out, that's true, but not everyone. I think now more than ever Muslims are weak in faith, so what you get is people turning to the religion out of insecurity rather than actually believing in it. A lot of muslims have barely explored philosophies beyond their own, it seems they become really really afraid of even thinking for themselves. These are the same kids who have short half-lives in their devotion. One day a big beard and a furrowed brow, the next day, leaving the bar with their australian girlfriend.

Quote: (01-27-2017 12:14 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

A masculine man, a strong man, a man that has his shit together in his head, doesn't run around hurting women or demanding that a woman cover her face, sit in the back of the car, or do this and that because she was born with homogametic chromosomes. It's the weak minded ones that do that , those who lack logic and reason and are controlled by the slavery of their own jealousy and emotional impulses without the capability to control it under pressure.

"There is no compulsion in religion" - Prophet Muhammad

Modern muslims barely know their own religion. They think it's OK to force their wife to do this and do that. Islam doesn't permit a man to force his wife to do anything, if she wants to be your wife she can follow the conditions, otherwise she can go home. Of course a sound man will do a good job of encouraging her to behave well if she's inclined to. Seriously, you'd be surprised how far off muslims today are from the religion.



Quote: (01-29-2017 03:19 AM)WalterBlack Wrote:  

Some of them act very weird around women. I remember working with one Pakistani guy who would walk behind me so I would block his view of women. He said he's not supposed to look at them. How thirsty must a man be if the mere sight of a woman makes him lose his marbles?

Islam teaches that god-consciousness / taqwa is in practicing caution. So even if a person could tow the line, as Muslims we're not supposed to only refrain from things we are forbidden to do but distance ourselves from them.

As for the thing about pornography, the issue I think is in the design of the religion compared to its implementation. In the early muslim societies children were considered adults by a very early age and they would be living independently from their parents from then. I don't remember the age exactly, but I think it's somewhere in what we would call the "pre-teen" range. Also, for a young man to get married all he needed was a sheep and a house and he would be able to find a wife. For a young muslim today, in order to get married you need to be ballin' and highly-educated, no degree and a no career and you're frowned upon in the marriage market. The obvious consequence of this is a lot of young muslims either can't get married or can't get married until they are 25. That leaves a lot of years of libido. This paired with culturally-integrated behaviors based in the religion, passed down to them from their parents, and loosely enforced religious rules leave young people in a state of contradiction. For girls it's easy to get what they want, because as we all know it takes no effort for a girl to acquire sex. For guys though, its a different story. So basically, they're parents fucked them. Now they're 23, raised and bred to a practice a religion they barely know if they believe in, yet living in a societal and cultural context which doesn't facilitate that underlying programming. That's the consequence of a gradual loss of faith over time. Their parents cared more about climbing the social ladder in western countries than their religion, now the kids are neither one thing or another. Just dysfunctional as all hell.
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#10

Islam and Marital Relationships

Quote: (01-30-2017 04:17 PM)4040tee Wrote:  

Islam teaches that god-consciousness / taqwa is in practicing caution. So even if a person could tow the line, as Muslims we're not supposed to only refrain from things we are forbidden to do but distance ourselves from them.

As for the thing about pornography, the issue I think is in the design of the religion compared to its implementation. In the early muslim societies children were considered adults by a very early age and they would be living independently from their parents from then. I don't remember the age exactly, but I think it's somewhere in what we would call the "pre-teen" range. Also, for a young man to get married all he needed was a sheep and a house and he would be able to find a wife. For a young muslim today, in order to get married you need to be ballin' and highly-educated, no degree and a no career and you're frowned upon in the marriage market. The obvious consequence of this is a lot of young muslims either can't get married or can't get married until they are 25. That leaves a lot of years of libido. This paired with culturally-integrated behaviors based in the religion, passed down to them from their parents, and loosely enforced religious rules leave young people in a state of contradiction. For girls it's easy to get what they want, because as we all know it takes no effort for a girl to acquire sex. For guys though, its a different story. So basically, they're parents fucked them. Now they're 23, raised and bred to a practice a religion they barely know if they believe in, yet living in a societal and cultural context which doesn't facilitate that underlying programming. That's the consequence of a gradual loss of faith over time. Their parents cared more about climbing the social ladder in western countries than their religion, now the kids are neither one thing or another. Just dysfunctional as all hell.

So long story short, islam creates fucked up men who are inclined to kill others because god forbid they have to go to school, make something of themselves, and achieve something that is more than getting a sex toy and some shack in the desert?
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#11

Islam and Marital Relationships

Quote: (01-30-2017 04:39 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

So long story short, islam creates fucked up men who are inclined to kill others because god forbid they have to go to school, make something of themselves, and achieve something that is more than getting a sex toy and some shack in the desert?

I mean, I don't usually say something like this. But that was incredibly stupid. You must be a really intelligent member of society. BUT I will still attempt to reply to someone of your magisterial intellect.

Islam forbids you to kill someone unless in self-defense. Islam forbids you to kill someone just because they do not share your personal beliefs. Muslims, at least in Canada, have an above average rate of university attendance. The people who lived in "Shacks" in the desert were of a society that existed a millenia /ago/ in 5th century. The same society invented irrigation, something Christians didn't even figure out until after the medieval era.

Bonafide jackass.

edit: not irrigation itself, but advanced techniques : "Because water was so scarce in the desert regions of the Islamic Empire, Muslims developed ingenious irrigation techniques and utilized underground wells. Dams, reservoirs, and aqueducts were constructed throughout the Islamic Empire as early as the tenth century. Muslims also perfected the water wheel, a technique that could be operated by man, animals, or the wind. When an upright pole connected to a series of geared wheels was turned, four water scoops, rising one after another, emptied their contents into a canal. Both the Umayyad and Abbasid rulers preserved and improved the series of underground wells used to irrigate fields."
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#12

Islam and Marital Relationships

Hey Jackass,

You realize that's now how the world works or how middle eastern countries interpret this right ?

One thing Islam definitely creates is a sexually repressed male, not to mention sectarian strife.

Islam forbids alot of things, but people do bad and good shit all the time.

You're talking about a BOOK, not the persons ACTIONS.


So Muslims who assimilated into Canada is proof positive that Islam isn't inherently a shit show in the Middle East ?

Here we go with who invented what, you realize many people claim they built or made something back in history right ? Irrigation was created LONG before Islam was around buddy.


Only bonafide jackass I see is you - typical of a fucking Leaf to try and explain this away.

[Image: gtfo.gif]
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#13

Islam and Marital Relationships

Quote: (01-30-2017 04:47 PM)4040tee Wrote:  

Quote: (01-30-2017 04:39 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

So long story short, islam creates fucked up men who are inclined to kill others because god forbid they have to go to school, make something of themselves, and achieve something that is more than getting a sex toy and some shack in the desert?

I mean, I don't usually say something like this. But that was incredibly stupid. You must be a really intelligent member of society. BUT I will still attempt to reply to someone of your magisterial intellect.

Islam forbids you to kill someone unless in self-defense. Islam forbids you to kill someone just because they do not share your personal beliefs. Muslims, at least in Canada, have an above average rate of university attendance. The people who lived in "Shacks" in the desert were of a society that existed a millenia /ago/ in 5th century. The same society invented irrigation, something Christians didn't even figure out until after the medieval era.

Bonafide jackass.

edit: not irrigation itself, but advanced techniques : "Because water was so scarce in the desert regions of the Islamic Empire, Muslims developed ingenious irrigation techniques and utilized underground wells. Dams, reservoirs, and aqueducts were constructed throughout the Islamic Empire as early as the tenth century. Muslims also perfected the water wheel, a technique that could be operated by man, animals, or the wind. When an upright pole connected to a series of geared wheels was turned, four water scoops, rising one after another, emptied their contents into a canal. Both the Umayyad and Abbasid rulers preserved and improved the series of underground wells used to irrigate fields."

Hey look guys, another Muslim unfamiliar with his religion.

Quote:Quote:

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to claim that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous - the actual Arabic words for persecution (idtihad) - and oppression (a variation of "z-l-m") do not appear in the verse. The word used instead, "fitna", can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home).Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward " This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is this Arabic word (mujahiduna) used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad, which would not make sense if it meant an internal struggle).

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle. The targets of violence are "those who disbelieve" - further defined in the next verse (13) as "defy and disobey Allah." Nothing is said about self-defense. In fact, the verses in sura 8 were narrated shortly after a battle provoked by Muhammad, who had been trying to attack a lightly-armed caravan to steal goods belonging to other people.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion is all for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:193). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence at the time of Muhammad was to convert to Islam: prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars. The popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

[Note: The verse says to fight unbelievers "wherever you find them". Even if the context is in a time of battle (which it was not) the reading appears to sanction attacks against those "unbelievers" who are not on the battlefield. In 2016, the Islamic State referred to this verse in urging the faithful to commit terror attacks: Allah did not only command the 'fighting' of disbelievers, as if to say He only wants us to conduct frontline operations against them. Rather, He has also ordered that they be slain wherever they may be – on or off the battlefield. (source)]

Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people." Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even "healing" the hearts of Muslims.

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. Verse 9:33 tells Muslims that Allah has charted them to make Islam "superior over all religions." This chapter was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).

Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that unbelievers are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It explains why today's devout Muslims generally have little regard for those outside the faith. The inclusion of "hypocrites" within this verse also contradicts the apologist's defense that the targets of hate and hostility are wartime foes, since there was never an opposing army made up of non-religious Muslims in Muhammad's time. (See also Games Muslims Play: Terrorists Can't Be Muslim Because They Kill Muslims for the role this verse plays in Islam's perpetual internal conflicts).

Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."

Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." How does the Quran define a true believer?

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).

Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. [Note: This parable along with verse 58:22 is a major reason that honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.12).]

Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.

Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who disbelieve follow falsehood, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord... So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives)... If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost." Those who reject Allah are to be killed in Jihad. The wounded are to be held captive for ransom. The only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test.

Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"

Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. This verse tells Muslims that there are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' to describe Hell in over 25 other verses including 65:10, 40:46 and 50:26..

Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His cause" Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "rows" or "battle array," meaning that it is speaking of physical conflict. This is followed by (61:9), which defines the "cause": "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.

Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of'Adn- Eternity ['Adn(Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success." This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see verse 9). It uses the Arabic root for the word Jihad.

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such. Other verses calling Muslims to Jihad can be found here at AnsweringIslam.org
Hadith and Sira

Sahih Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Sahih Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy. This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.

Sahih Bukhari (52:65) - The Prophet said, 'He who fights that Allah's Word (Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause. Muhammad's words are the basis for offensive Jihad - spreading Islam by force. This is how it was understood by his companions, and by the terrorists of today. (See also Sahih Bukhari 3:125)

Sahih Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'

Sahih Bukhari (52:44) - A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He replied, "I do not find such a deed."

Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)

Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious

Sahih Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

Sahih Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."

Sahih Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."

Sahih Bukhari (52:73) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords'."

Sahih Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."

Sahih Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."

Sahih Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"

Sahih Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihad died the death of a hypocrite.'"

Sahih Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."

Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - "When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him... He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war... When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them."

Sahih Muslim (31:5917) - "Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: 'Allah's Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people?' Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: 'Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger'." The pretext for attacking the peaceful farming community of Khaibar was not obvious to the Muslims. Muhammad's son-in-law Ali asked the prophet of Islam to clarify the reason for their mission to kill, loot and enslave. Muhammad's reply was straightforward. The people should be fought because they are not Muslim.

Sahih Muslim (31:5918) - "I will fight them until they are like us." Ali's reply to Muhammad, after receiving clarification that the pretext for attack Khaibar was to convert the people (see above verse).

Sahih Bukhari 2:35 "The person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah’s cause and nothing compels him do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty ( if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise ( if he is killed)."

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.

Tabari 17:187 "'By God, our religion (din) from which we have departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow. Their religion does not stop them from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and seizing properties.' And they returned to their former religion." The words of a group of Christians who had converted to Islam, but realized their error after being shocked by the violence and looting committed in the name of Allah. The price of their decision to return to a religion of peace was that the men were beheaded and the woman and children enslaved by the caliph Ali.

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 484: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 990: Cutting off someone's head while shouting 'Allahu Akbar' is not a 'perverison of Islam', but a tradition of Islam that began with Muhammad. In this passage, a companion recounts an episode in which he staged a surprise ambush on a settlement: "I leapt upon him and cut off his head and ran in the direction of the camp shouting 'Allah akbar' and my two companions did likewise".

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah." Muhammad's instructions to his men prior to a military raid.

Saifur Rahman, The Sealed Nectar p.227-228 - "Embrace Islam... If you two accept Islam, you will remain in command of your country; but if your refuse my Call, you’ve got to remember that all of your possessions are perishable. My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship." One of several letters from Muhammad to rulers of other countries. The significance is that the recipients were not making war or threatening Muslims. Their subsequent defeat and subjugation by Muhammad's armies was justified merely on the basis of their unbelief.

But please, do tell me more about your religion you clearly know nothing about.
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#14

Islam and Marital Relationships

Quote: (01-30-2017 05:11 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Hey Jackass,

You realize that's now how the world works or how middle eastern countries interpret this right ?

One thing Islam definitely creates is a sexually repressed male, not to mention sectarian strife.

Islam forbids alot of things, but people do bad and good shit all the time.

You're talking about a BOOK, not the persons ACTIONS.


So Muslims who assimilated into Canada is proof positive that Islam isn't inherently a shit show in the Middle East ?

Here we go with who invented what, you realize many people claim they built or made something back in history right ? Irrigation was created LONG before Islam was around buddy.


Only bonafide jackass I see is you - typical of a fucking Leaf to try and explain this away.

Good response and as far as taking claim for the "Inventions of Islam" - Muslims are utterly demented taking claim for that.

First of all - no religion can claim that the reason for any inventions are based on Christianity, Hinduism etc. You ever see the Vatican declaring that it created the modern age just because it happened to transpire in Christian countries? No - only Muslims are so utterly deluded claiming that some inventions happend BECAUSE OF ISLAM!

If any happened then they did despite Islam as Caliphs and Sultans regularly burned libraries and destroyed knowledge from the conquered infidels (if one did not do it, then onf their progeny did 50-200 yrs later). That is why ISIS is busy destroying pretty much anything as soon as they conquer a piece of land - because nothing must remain of non-Islamic culture of their bent.

As for the supposed inventors of the Islamic countries - when you research the heritage of those then you find for example that especially the ones in the Middle East were almost always Zoroastrans/Persians who had to convert to Islam. Also they sometimes just took books from India or translated other earlier Greek versions. Also the Andalusian biggest scientists were progeny of Spanish Christians. If the next Caliphate takes control of Sweden and the forcibly converted Swedes come up with a Volvo-tank, then this would not be based on Islam, but on the high-IQ Swedes living there. Over time Islam would even destroy that and Swedistan would become an Islamic shithole like the rest of them.

As Kaotic correctly put it - if you don't have constantly new white sex-slaves, constant wars and rapes, then a big part of the male population is going to be sexually repressed. Only the top can easily have 4 wives and 50 models a year for sex flown in. The rest are either using porn (Middle East is being the biggest consumer of porn worldwide - there was even once an Imam who accused Middle Eastern Imams of having a fixed evening masturbation scedule, so that they could not do talks in the evenings - it would have been funny, if it were not so sad) or they find power-bottoms and fuck men, because fucking and getting blown by a man does not make you gay according to Islam. It is like prison rules there.

[Image: attachment.jpg35867]   
After a time this was even becoming acceptable.

Islam does not create neither a good ethical, scientific basis for society. And it does not create a solid social basis either - it creates sexual frustration, internal violence (honor killings, beatings etc.) and terrible terrible things.

Islam is a mindset that punishes their own people first.

And as I said before - it is a clever war cult that is designed for the profit of the very top class who then drown in pussy and conquer everything. But due to it's limitations and commands it is also making sure that Islamic society never advances abvoe the medieval stage.

Marital relationships are not based on love and positive dominance of the man. If some of them are, then they are that way in spite of Islam.
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#15

Islam and Marital Relationships

Quote: (01-30-2017 04:00 AM)Meat Head Wrote:  

Quote: (01-29-2017 04:25 AM)Leonard D Neubache pid=
'1497028 Wrote:


Saying "there's good stuff about islam" is like saying "chronic AIDS helped me lose weight".

Post of the day. Made me laugh. But I do agree with certain Islamic principles.

Burying the dead on the same day in a simple cloth instead of expensive coffin. Irrelevant burial practice.
The ban on alcohol.
Banning and in some times killing shopkeepers for selling alcohol is a problem. Alcohol is easy to make - limiting alcohol through various means is fine, but a strict ban creates other problems.
Modest dressing for women.
Modest is one thing- Christianity had that for all honorable women. Islam has a restrictive dress code under threat of death - also it looks shit!
No kings or royalty.
Bullshit - what are Kaliphs, hereditary Sultans, various military strongmen and now kings of the Middle East? They alsways had those.
Death penalty for drug dealing.
No - most don't have automatic death penalty. But they do have draconian laws where the local Gulf states cops inflate the numbers for their own gain by entrapping mostly Pakis and Bangladeshis who get 20 yrs for 1gram of coke that another entrapped Paki had to give to them to get free.
Low tolerance for homosexuality.
Again - the reality is that due to their repressed state they have dancing kids, child-porn, fucking of children, fucking of other men - so long as you don't get fucked. Getting a Powerbottom is easier than getting a woman in Saudi Arabia.
Polygamy. (There are more men than women.)
Bullshit again. There are 6% more men born via nature. Men die off earlier, but in non-war times they don't and there is a massive surprlus of men in the ages of 18-30. You could not even give each man a woman in most countries in the world. The supposed female surplus only happens since most of them live longer and you can have your pick of women in the 70s and 80s - enjoy! So polygamy creates an imbalance and is only ok when you have constant wars and a massive shortage of men due to them dying in battle.

I read somewhere that Arabic countries have low rates of violent crime and Stds.

I think this one is another Islamic apologist waiting to show us the light of Islam.
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#16

Islam and Marital Relationships

^I stand corrected.

Beliefs are more powerful than facts.
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#17

Islam and Marital Relationships

@Zelcorpion. What about Muslim places like Dubai, Qatar in the Arab Emirates? Doesnt it prove that Arabs can be as civilised and as progressive as whites? Not every Muslim place is a shit hole.

Beliefs are more powerful than facts.
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#18

Islam and Marital Relationships

Quote: (05-22-2017 02:49 AM)Meat Head Wrote:  

@Zelcorpion. What about Muslim places like Dubai, Qatar in the Arab Emirates? Doesnt it prove that Arabs can be as civilised and as progressive as whites? Not every Muslim place is a shit hole.

You must be kidding.

Inbreeding at those places at levels of 40%. Money and Western tech and workers keep it up.

In addition they have armies of poor Africans and Asians who get treated like slaves while Whites are paid well at least.

Recently a friend spent 6 months in Dubai because he had coca plant candy from his visit in Colombia (left it in backpack - no cocaine in it, just the meal - yes it is illegal, but you cannot do anything out of it). He actually got 4 years, but got released prematurely. In prison he met so many Bangladeshis, Pakistanis and other poor blokes who got 20 years for being entrapped by other Bangladeshis (because that is how the local cops shore up their numbers of doing something against drug use while the local men snort coke like crazy).
)
PISA ratings of those countries of the locals are also shit. Only oil is keeping up the facade of civility.

[Image: The%252Bdark%252Bside%252Bof%252BDubai%2...B2Bsee.jpg]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...tance.html

There are no reports about the frequent even Western tourists that end up behind bars over some bullshit. In Abu Dhabi a Western girl spent 6 months in jail for refusing sex of some sheikh. She got arrested for insulting men. Probably got 4 years, but at least the West is putting some pressure on those assholes.

Dubai could easily treat their poor workers better and pay them fine, but why should they? Slavery is allowed under Islam and they are at least getting paid.
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#19

Islam and Marital Relationships

^I stand corrected again. I guess all that glitters isnt gold. What are thoughts about White Sharia/patriarchy? Can it save Western civilisation?

Beliefs are more powerful than facts.
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