[StackGsMan]

Hello all,

So I tried asking this question on a body building forum, but I didn't get very many good answers and since I became a member here I have come to really value the level of advice that MANY of the members here give.

Let me preface this by saying that I was an athlete most of my life, began bodybuilding in college, have lost upwards of 60 lbs in the past, and worked in a gym simply because at one point my body was high value (I was probably in the upper percentages of men in terms of how my body looked). Back then I got eye contact everywhere I went in the tier 1 city I lived in, and I even had women walk up to me in bars and ask me to go home with them.

Since then I developed bipolar disorder and within some time after I began to take medication for it. Coincidentally, although I am not saying this was the pills' fault, I became depressed, entirely stopped working out, began smoking heavily, and began binge eating.

I went from 6'2'', 205 lbs, to my current weight around 300 lbs. Although I have still been able to pull girls occasionally, my life has totally changed for the worse. On top of that, I have developed Erectile Dysfunction and I attribute it and least in very large part to my weight. This has cost me more than a few lays because not only am I turning on less women, but a lot of times I can't even get it up when I have a wet pussy in front of me. On top of that, even when I do get it up I can't physically have sex for long without getting tired or sore. Also, even though I decided nearly half a year ago that I want to concentrate on night game and same night lays, I haven't been able to make myself go out because I have lost a lot of self confidence and feel like it is an uphill battle because of my weight. Don't get me wrong, I have blasted through approach anxiety over the years, but this is different, it's a feeling of futility.

Sorry for being long winded, but I wanted to give whoever reads this some background info.

I have a lot of time on my hands for the next 8 or so months, and I have considered doing a routine where I lift either 4 or 7 days a week, but where I walk 6 hours a day as well. With just my diet of 800 or so calories from protein (chicken breast), I have been able to lose weight and retain most if not all my muscle, but the rate of weight I've dropped is about 15 lbs a month.

I have calculated from online research that if I walk 6 hours a day in addition to the diet I can lose something like 30+ a month, and within 3 months I will be at my ideal weight (I know there is a difference between losing weight and looking good, but I want to start by losing the weight).

My major concern is will I increase my risk of having disgusting loose skin? Should I just take the 15 lbs a month route while lifting, or should I kick it into high gear and reclaim my life?

From the research I've done (which is very sparse on the internet), I have come to conclude that loose skin comes mainly from the way your body looks and how your fat is stored more so than the actual weight you are. Although I am certainly fat at 300 lbs, I only wear a size 40, and comfortably at that. I have a large amount of muscle and am decently strong despite years of not working out.

What do you guys think? Three months of rapid weight loss and reclaiming my life and manhood or a slow and steady approach over 9 months?

[Donkey George]

(01-14-2017 01:16 AM)StackGsMan Wrote:  

I have a lot of time on my hands for the next 8 or so months, and I have considered doing a routine where I lift either 4 or 7 days a week, but where I walk 6 hours a day as well. With just my diet of 800 or so calories from protein (chicken breast), I have been able to lose weight and retain most if not all my muscle, but the rate of weight I've dropped is about 15 lbs a month.

I have calculated from online research that if I walk 6 hours a day in addition to the diet I can lose something like 30+ a month, and within 3 months I will be at my ideal weight (I know there is a difference between losing weight and looking good, but I want to start by losing the weight).

My major concern is will I increase my risk of having disgusting loose skin? Should I just take the 15 lbs a month route while lifting, or should I kick it into high gear and reclaim my life?

From the research I've done (which is very sparse on the internet), I have come to conclude that loose skin comes mainly from the way your body looks and how your fat is stored more so than the actual weight you are. Although I am certainly fat at 300 lbs, I only wear a size 40, and comfortably at that. I have a large amount of muscle and am decently strong despite years of not working out.

What do you guys think? Three months of rapid weight loss and reclaiming my life and manhood or a slow and steady approach over 9 months?

Hey Stack,

Gotta say that I love your enthusiasm. It sounds like you've had a rough couple of years and you are finally ready to move forward and improve yourself physically. Mental well-being and confidence will flow naturally once you begin seeing changes in your body and physical abilities.

However, I have to say that your current plan is not only detrimental in the long run, but can cause severe harm to your body, metabolism, and hormonal balance. I'm going to comment on each part of your workout plan individually.

Quote:

I have a lot of time on my hands for the next 8 or so months, and I have considered doing a routine where I lift either 4 or 7 days a week.

If you are just getting back into weight training, stick to working out 3 or 4 days a week. Anything more than this is downright counterproductive and will cause you to catabolize muscle and will increase your cortisol levels to dangerous levels. This WILL cause your testosterone to plummet and will stall your weight loss progress.

Also, remember that muscles are built on your day off. Every time you lift weights, you create hundreds of microtears in your muscles. It is vital that you give them time to repair themselves and grow larger.

Quote:

where I walk 6 hours a day as well

This is just crazy. You should be walking for 2 hours a day max, split into two sessions (and even this is very intense and can cause joint problems for people who are severely overweight; 1 hour-long walking session a day is perfect).

When you walk across a flat surface, the force placed on your knees is roughly 1.5x your body weight. If you weigh 300lbs, this means that you are placing 450lbs of pressure on each knee every time you take a step (http://www.health.harvard.edu/pain/why-w...int-pain).

Furthermore, if you are walking an average of 4 miles an hour (a reasonably fast rate), you are talking about walking 24 miles a day. That's crazy and something that trained soldiers can only keep up for so long. Don't do this to your joints or body.

Quote:

800 or so calories from protein (chicken breast)

Okay, I get the protein-focused nature of this diet, but you are only eating 800 calories a day with this much exercise!?! This type of extreme low carb dieting is only meant to be done under a doctors supervision and with minimal low-impact cardio or light resistance training.

In addition, think about the caloric deficit that you are in on a daily basis. If you are weight training and walking 6 hours, you are burning more than 3,000 calories a day with a 2,200 calorie deficit (~500 calories burned per 4 miles), you are literally eating away the remaining muscle that you have.

If you are at a 2,200 calorie deficit, are not eating carbs or a primarily fat diet (allowing your body to produce ketones and turn to stored bodyfat as a source of fuel), you are literally catabolizing your muscles and using their stored glycogen and protein (which is converted to glycogen) for energy.

If you are fine with permanently wrecking your metabolism and hormonal balance, as well as losing half of your lost weight as muscle, then go ahead. Just be aware that such a program could reduce your metabolism by 25% or more of its normal rate in the long-term, making keeping the weight off more difficult.

Otherwise, I would sincerely recommend that you read the following threads. They involve relatively rapid fat loss with some strength training and cardio, but include a reasonable amount of work given your caloric intake and help you to preserve your muscle mass:

-archive/index.html?thread-8462.html
-thread-48982.html
-thread-4922.html

The key to these diet programs is moderate exercise combined with a reasonable caloric deficit.

Lastly, keep in mind that saturated fat is the building block of testosterone. If you are eating nothing but skinless chicken breast, you are starving your body of the building blocks necessary to create the god molecule, testosterone.

Quote:

My major concern is will I increase my risk of having disgusting loose skin? Should I just take the 15 lbs a month route while lifting, or should I kick it into high gear and reclaim my life?

If you are losing 30 pounds of weight a month (and undoubtedly a good portion of this will be muscle), you will likely be left with a significant amount of loose skin. Note that I say likely, because I don't know your age, how long you have been fat, what your skin's natural elasticity is, and how hydrated you are.

However, there are some things you can do to help reduce excess skin after weight loss:

-Slow and steady weight loss. This gives your skin time to tighten naturally.
-Drink a gallon of water a day. Dry skin does not stretch or return to form well.
-Along those lines, apply moisturizer every time you get out of the shower. I have used a combination of coconut oil and cocoa butter, and this has helped me avoid any loose skin issues.

I do feel your desire to rid yourself of all of that extra weight as soon as possible. I have always been a fat guy and I am roughly 2/3rds through my weight loss journey, having dropped 80lbs since my heaviest weight.

However, I understand that weight loss done hastily and without regard for consequences can leave your health in tatters. It could leave you suffering from excess skin, low testosterone, high cortisol and adrenal gland problems, and more.

If you need any help or just want to bounce ideas off of someone, feel free to ask in the thread or PM me. I'm always happy to help another forum member who is actively trying to better themselves. I hope this helps.

[Hannibal]

I recommend reading the thread I have written on the subject.

thread-48982.html

Since you already have a solid base of muscle, I recommend RFL because you'll be dropping at least 20 lbs of fat a month (if not more).

You could do RFL until you hit 15% bodyfat, then do something more sane like a regular lifting routine, counting calories, and cardio.

RFL is a sledgehammer, not a scalpel. I don't recommend dieting below 15% bodyfat with it, however it is the absolute fastest way to get down to a reasonable level of bodyfat.

The general advice against the rapid fat loss approach is that you won't be developing sustainable dieting habits. My response to that is you'll be a lot more motivated to do so once you can see some definition and you can go up a set of stairs without stopping to catch your breath. My second response is that if you had sustainable dieting habits, you wouldn't be sitting at 300 lbs. A tool for every task.

A guy with 100k in debt shouldn't be saving 10% of his income to pay it off, he should be throwing half his paychecks at his debt until it goes away. I see obesity as a similar problem. Fortunately we have Lyle Mcdonald to tell us how to do this in a mostly safe manner.

(01-14-2017 02:56 AM)Donkey George Wrote:  

This is just crazy. You should be walking for 2 hours a day max, split into two sessions (and even this is very intense and can cause joint problems for people who are severely overweight; 1 hour-long walking session a day is perfect).

When you walk across a flat surface, the force placed on your knees is roughly 1.5x your body weight. If you weigh 300lbs, this means that you are placing 450lbs of pressure on each knee every time you take a step (http://www.health.harvard.edu/pain/why-w...int-pain).

Furthermore, if you are walking an average of 4 miles an hour (a reasonably fast rate), you are talking about walking 24 miles a day. That's crazy and something that trained soldiers can only keep up for so long. Don't do this to your joints or body.

Walking is good for your joints. It's one of the lowest impact forms of exercise there is.

Not being able to walk for more than an hour at a time is a modern invention to justify laziness.

Although I can think of better things to do with my time than walk 6 hours a day.

[Donkey George]

(01-14-2017 03:20 AM)Hannibal Wrote:  

Walking is good for your joints. It's one of the lowest impact forms of exercise there is.

Not being able to walk for more than an hour at a time is a modern invention to justify laziness.

Although I can think of better things to do with my time than walk 6 hours a day.

Hey Hannibal,

I actually agree with you. Walking is an incredibly low-impact activity and healthy individuals should be capable of standing and walking for the vast majority of the day, everyday.

However, there is a difference between a healthy individual at their natural weight and an obese person who has a 100lbs+ of extra weight, along with the joint pain and systemic inflammation that goes along with obesity.

Plus, one of the easiest ways to fail at your diet is to suffer an injury and be sidelined from exercise for weeks at a time. In fact, that's happened to me before. You injury your knee or foot from too much activity too fast and you are no longer able to work out. You sit on the couch, pissed off and looking for something to do. Next thing you know you've fallen off the wagon and undid all of your progress.

This isn't to say that low-calorie diets are bad or that you shouldn't exercise, only that you should take all of the factors into consideration. I'm a fan of rapid fat loss and I agree that seeing rapid weight loss is a huge motivation for an obese person who is seeking to get healthy. That's actually why I practice LCHF and maintain a 1,000 calorie deficit from my maintenance caloric needs combined with regular strength training and a 4-mile walk each evening.

However, that is a far cry from eating just 800 calories of chicken breast, while exercising for 7 hours a day (walking and weight lifting). We are talking about a 5,000 a day deficit under his maintenance caloric needs. That is simply ridiculous, in my opinion.

Furthermore, we are talking about someone who has been inactive for an undetermined amount of years, who has made impressive but limited progress on their weight loss goals, and who is likely still suffering from some of the physical problems caused by obesity. Working out for 7 hours a day (7 f***ing hours a day!) in this state is neither healthy nor sustainable, and any injuries that he sustains during this process could easily lead to a reversal of all of the progress he has made.

My advice: keep avoiding carbs and add a large dose of saturated fat to your daily diet. Maintain a 1,000 to 1,500 deficit below your maintenance caloric needs. Lift weights 3 or 4 times a week and walk for 1-2 hours a day, at a pace of 4mph. This will ensure rapid, sustainable, and safe weight loss while helping to protect him from the debilitating hormonal changes that can occur with the program that he is proposing.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Good stuff on the dieting thread Hannibal.

http://roguehealthandfitness.com/ (site of a manosphere member I recommend with many good studies presented)

I learned quite a few from it - also based on intermittent fasting. However that kind of fasting is only good when you have all the vitamins and minerals supplied and a minimum of protein.

Essentially your body after 16 hours of no intake of carbohydrates starts to burn the only fuel it has - fat.

Based on that I have devised a simple effective maximum weight loss program:

Orthomolecular dose of vitamins and minerals consisting of:
+ good Multi - High Potency Swanson or better (without iron - this is important)
+ Magnesium - 300-400mg
+ Vitamin D3 - 5000IU
+ Vitamin K2 - 100mcg
+ Glucosamine/Chondritine - 500mg or more depending on your age - you will need it for lifting
+ zinc 30mg (if you feel sick after taking zinc, then ditch it, because it needs more food and dieting and zinc do not mix well)
+ vitamin C - 5000mg - I take this not during the meal, but all during the day later - vitamin C at that dose not only keeps you more fulfilled, but gives you energy

Omega 3 fatty acids:
+ I use flax-seeds because it fills your stomach - buy best organic flax seeds, soak them in water for 8 hours and then shred the husks afterwards - 2-3 tablespoons daily - they expand 10-fold and give you all your Omega 3 fatty acids you need
+ Lecithin 1 teaspoon for memory and hair - I mix it with the flaxseeds (I use non-gmo sunflower lecithin instead of soy)

Tuna:
+ one can about 150mg (gives you roughly 30mg of raw protein - you can substitute it with other forms of protein like lean chicken or steak, but it works quite good with tuna)

One apple

Whey Protein powder concentrate - Now Foods or better
+ The quanitity will depend on your body weight and how much you wanna lift. If you do not lift, then you don't need much. If you lift, then you will require more.

And the fun part is - I eat all of this in the morning and that is it. You eat all of this as your one meal per day. The advantage of this intermittent fasting is that your body adjusts to this one meal per day quickly. Morning meal is better than evening meal, because you burn more calories during the day and are full in the morning and day when you are more productive.

You don't eat anything else, you are supplied all your needs of nutrients that way and your body will have to get fats and proteins from the sources stored in your body.

It is rather an extreme version of dieting that gets immense results - and the best part is that it is even healthy. If you feel weak in the beginning, then you just up the dose of protein concentrate and thus get more nutrient dense protein.

If you are more obese and are in danger of having more loose skin, then I would not recommend this low calorie dosage, because the fat loss will be too fast. Also you should then double the vitamin C dosage to 10.000 mg per day, because it is proven to help with the skin. Also you might want to add an extra 200IU of natural vitamin E - this helps with skin as well.

If you are not obese or are younger, then you will be surprised how good you feel with this kind of diet. Slight hunger will be a part of you, but it is bearable - also you will be most hungry during the night and that is when you will sleep anyway. After a short time your body simply adapts to being fed once a day - this is not something spectacular - there are even pro NFL players who eat like this for decades.

[Hannibal]

(01-14-2017 03:45 AM)Donkey George Wrote:  

snip

I wasn't disagreeing with you either, especially on the dieting in moderation. Everything there is good, I just think the OP needs a dietary kick in the ass (at least get down to 250 lbs first).

RFL states that you should only do a couple heavy lifts maybe twice a week and to avoid cardio. Walking for 6 hours a day just for fat loss is insane. It is also the premise for another one of Lyle Mcdonalds books - which is basically RFL plus as much walking as possible for four days. That's the thing though, you'd only do a program like that for a few days.

I would discourage high intensity cardio and running, but I still think the OP shouldn't avoid walking he just doesn't have to do it for 6 hours a day. 1 hour is fine.

RFL will get him the results he wants without spending a huge amount of time. Once he gets down to a reasonable level of bodyfat he can go do his marathon walking sessions or go smash the gym six times a week.

[StackGsMan]

Wow guys, really informative and helpful advice. I'm actually surprised to have gotten responses that were this thorough. I won't do the 6 hours a day of walking thing, instead I will be more reasonable. I'm going to aim for about 15-20 lbs a month, and at that rate I think I'll be happy within a few months.

I'm repping all three of you because you really deserve it. Thanks!

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Before I forget, because it is obvious to me, but not so to others:

Do not go and buy any supplements - most are pharma owned, have useless additives, too low doses or outright toxic ingredients.

Best of the cheapest is Swanson Vitamins - just go to Swansonvitamins.com and there purchase the Swanson or Now Foods brands. They sell other toxic mainstream producers on that site too, but pick rather one of those 2 brands.

I say this because if you take a crappy multi or some vitamin c with aspartame then you will be worse off than before. Swanson is still quite cheap - their High Potency Multi costs 10$ for 2 months.

And I agree with the other guys - 1-2 hours of walking is enough, long cardio with that kind of caloric restriction is unnecessary and even counterproductive and you only need some lifting.

[SamuelBRoberts]

(01-14-2017 01:16 AM)StackGsMan Wrote:  

Hello all,

So I tried asking this question on a body building forum, but I didn't get very many good answers and since I became a member here I have come to really value the level of advice that MANY of the members here give.

Let me preface this by saying that I was an athlete most of my life, began bodybuilding in college, have lost upwards of 60 lbs in the past, and worked in a gym simply because at one point my body was high value (I was probably in the upper percentages of men in terms of how my body looked). Back then I got eye contact everywhere I went in the tier 1 city I lived in, and I even had women walk up to me in bars and ask me to go home with them.

Since then I developed bipolar disorder and within some time after I began to take medication for it. Coincidentally, although I am not saying this was the pills' fault, I became depressed, entirely stopped working out, began smoking heavily, and began binge eating.

I went from 6'2'', 205 lbs, to my current weight around 300 lbs. Although I have still been able to pull girls occasionally, my life has totally changed for the worse. On top of that, I have developed Erectile Dysfunction and I attribute it and least in very large part to my weight. This has cost me more than a few lays because not only am I turning on less women, but a lot of times I can't even get it up when I have a wet pussy in front of me. On top of that, even when I do get it up I can't physically have sex for long without getting tired or sore. Also, even though I decided nearly half a year ago that I want to concentrate on night game and same night lays, I haven't been able to make myself go out because I have lost a lot of self confidence and feel like it is an uphill battle because of my weight. Don't get me wrong, I have blasted through approach anxiety over the years, but this is different, it's a feeling of futility.

Sorry for being long winded, but I wanted to give whoever reads this some background info.

I have a lot of time on my hands for the next 8 or so months, and I have considered doing a routine where I lift either 4 or 7 days a week, but where I walk 6 hours a day as well. With just my diet of 800 or so calories from protein (chicken breast), I have been able to lose weight and retain most if not all my muscle, but the rate of weight I've dropped is about 15 lbs a month.

I have calculated from online research that if I walk 6 hours a day in addition to the diet I can lose something like 30+ a month, and within 3 months I will be at my ideal weight (I know there is a difference between losing weight and looking good, but I want to start by losing the weight).

My major concern is will I increase my risk of having disgusting loose skin? Should I just take the 15 lbs a month route while lifting, or should I kick it into high gear and reclaim my life?

From the research I've done (which is very sparse on the internet), I have come to conclude that loose skin comes mainly from the way your body looks and how your fat is stored more so than the actual weight you are. Although I am certainly fat at 300 lbs, I only wear a size 40, and comfortably at that. I have a large amount of muscle and am decently strong despite years of not working out.

What do you guys think? Three months of rapid weight loss and reclaiming my life and manhood or a slow and steady approach over 9 months?

A bit of a late reply here, but if you had the willpower needed to successfully do a massive crash diet in three months, and then keep the weight off permanently and successfully after that, you wouldn't have gained this much weight in the first place.

Take your time finding a routine that works for you. You want the habits you build to stick with you for life.

[btz]

ditch the walking 6 hours a day and stick to just 1 hour or so, remember that calories in - calories out still applies. It's easier to not eat 500 calories than it is to burn off 500 calories and that much walking will require additional calories. You can do the math on your own but when most people measure their insane workouts + increased calories required they're better off just eating less.

HMB is very good for retaining muscle mass while on deficit or injury, lookup the studies. I use optimum nutrition capsules. Powder is cheaper but it tastes like absolute shit. ECA stack is good for suppressing hunger, so is nicotine but don't smoke it. Get a patch or gum, you will feel shitty for a few days when you come off it but you won't be addicted. Tons of people use it for it's nootropic effect on memory and the only downside is your drowsy and have a light headache for 3-4 days but after that it's gone.

[Rossi]

I was a pro-athlete until I was 24. I was actually getting paid too. You shouldn't walk 6 hours especially when you're that overweight. Your maximum walking time should be 2 hours and that should be maximum.

You should start with 1 hour walking time and extend it by 15 minutes by each week. Being overweight is dangerous but losing weight rapidly is as dangerous as being overweight.

You can really damage your heart if you push yourself to walk 6 hours a day if your body isn't ready for that.

[rainy]

Most of weight loss is diet and the surefire way to drop weight fast is by cutting all carbs aside from vegetables. That includes no fruit. ECA stack can be a bonus but I wouldn't use it if around 300lbs. Can be tough on the heart and your heart is already working pretty hard being that heavy.

Then you want to build muscle as it a) gives you more of a solid build and b) has a higher metabolic rate, meaning you burn more calories throughout the day by having more muscle. Do too much cardio and while you lose weight, you also burn off muscle and get the skinny-fat look which no one wants.

Eat small meals but eat frequently, every 2-3 hours. Eat until you're not hungry, not until you're full. Fasting is a horrible idea. Your metabolism runs on calories. Have to feed it.