[2Wycked]

The loss of a great man--

Quote:

Thousands of colleagues, friends, family members and strangers gathered Friday to mourn NYPD Det. Steven McDonald, who died Tuesday.

Police officers lined up in neat rows outside St. Patrick's Cathedral for the paralyzed detective best known as an international voice for peace and a source of support for other wounded police officers. Among the distinguished guests were NYPD Commissioner James O'Neill, Former NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly and Mayor Bill de Blasio.

The late detective will be buried at Holy Rood Cemetery in Westbury.

An NYPD motorcade rolled down an uncharacteristically silent Fifth Avenue as a throng of priests dressed in pristine white robes looked on from inside the church. The NYPD Emerald Society, donning their traditional navy and hunter green kilts, waved New York state, NYPD and American flags as they marched along the avenue.

Looking somber and stoic, Patricia Ann McDonald clutched her son's arm as officers carefully removed the casket from a silver hearse. Conor McDonald lifted his white-gloved hand to his NYPD cap to salute his father for the final time.

Seven pallbearers hoisted McDonald's casket onto their shoulders and moved toward the cathedral, followed by a throng of family members and NYPD officers who silently filed inside amid the sounds of bagpipes playing "Amazing Grace." Bells could be heard for blocks as they tolled throughout the morning.

Mayor de Blasio extended his condolences to the McDonald family as he spoke at the podium. He praised his commitment to the NYPD and his message of love for all, saying that the late detective was New York City personified in one man.

"We feel pain and we feel joy that we knew him, and we learned the right way to live from him," he said. "He showed us that the work of policing is profoundly based on love and compassion for your fellow man and woman. He lived it every day."

De Blasio personally thanked Conor McDonald for continuing his father's legacy, and for being a shining example on the force.

"It may feel difficult to go on without him, but you've already been given that great gift of his example. NYPD will continue to feel the faith, the vision of your great father through your work," he said.

NYPD Commissioner James O'Neill called McDonald "one of the most remarkable men he's ever met" and "one of the best cops to don a uniform."

"Steven's is a life that underscores why people want to become police officers," O'Neill said. "Despite using a ventilator, Steven's voice was always strong, just like his message."

McDonald, 59, who suffered a heart attack last week, died at a Long Island hospital. He joined the force in July 1984, but remained on the New York Police Department's payroll as a detective until his death.

He was on patrol on July 12, 1986, when he spotted bicycle thief Shavod "Buddha" Jones and two other teenagers in Central Park. When he moved to frisk one of them, the 15-year-old Jones shot McDonald three times, with one bullet piercing the officer's spinal column.

About six months later, McDonald made a statement that defined the rest of his life: "I forgive him and hope he can find peace and purpose in his life."

After Jones was sentenced to 10 years in prison for attempted murder, McDonald spoke of his hope that the pair would go on speaking tours together to offer a mutual message of peace. But shortly after Jones' release from prison in 1995, he died in a motorcycle accident.

In the years following the shooting, McDonald met with Pope John Paul II and Nelson Mandela, and sat for an interview with Barbara Walters. He also took his message of forgiveness to Israel, Northern Ireland and Bosnia.

News of his death Tuesday sparked a groundswell of condolences on social media; Twitter erupted with remembrances for the police officer who touched so many lives, both at home and abroad.

The New York Rangers established the Steven McDonald Extra Effort Award in his honor following the 1987-88 season. Named in his honor, the annual award is given to the Rangers player who goes beyond the normal call of duty.

McDonald was a huge fan of the team, and every season the team honored him and his family on the ice.

"Steven was, quite simply, nothing short of a giant. He touched all of us, he changed all of us," said former New York Ranger Adam Graves, who received the Extra Effort Award in five of his 10 seasons with the Rangers.

"The name McDonald isn't just synonymous with being a Rangers fan," said Commissioner O'Neill. "It is synonymous with being part of an amazing bond of police officers."

The hero detective was an iconic figure of sacrifice for the NYPD and inspired many, including his own son Conor, who followed in his father's footsteps by joining the NYPD in 2010.

The younger McDonald said his father was "the greatest man I could ask to be my father," recouting his father's daily 5 a.m. good morning phone calls and weekly trips to Boston College for a father-son meal at applebees. He warmly recalled the countless Rangers games the two attended together, which he considers to be his most beloved memories.

"My dad loved life, he lived it to the fullest," Conor said. "He wanted to make sure his time on Earth wasn't wasted. He made it it his mission to have all of us realize that love must win."

He also emphasized his father's decades-long commitment to the NYPD both on and off the force, making mention of a saying he made up years ago: "There's more love in New York City than there are street corners."

"My dad loved the NYPD 'til the end. He loved his uniform, he loved the shield, he loved the men and women who woke up every day to protect this city."

In September, the elder McDonald donned his navy blue police uniform to see his son receive a gold detective's shield during his promotion ceremony. He told the Daily News that the promotion was very emotional.

The good detective and his family -- his wife stood by him the whole time, sad that needs to be commended this day and age -- in their younger years:



A video for your viewing pleasure:

A video of the funeral services (I did not watch, it's very long):

This man's life and actions can certainly provide us with some perspective. Who among us can say we would calmly handle such a traumatic event with grace and class? To forgive the man who almost took your life?

I know most of us would like to think that if we were in his shoes, we would take the high road or "do the right thing." But being paralyzed and left at the mercy of medical science and whims of others can crush a lesser man. Can we really know how we would act in similar straits? Only first-hand experience can test or forge a man.

I am certainly impressed with this man's message of forgiveness. What about you?

[Mr. Ripley]

Forgiveness? Fuck that.

[BortimusPrime]

(01-13-2017 11:43 PM)Mr. Ripley Wrote:  

Forgiveness? Fuck that.

Yeah, I'd be like the crippled guy in Hannibal and try to have the guy who paralyzed me fed to man-eating pigs.

[Fast Eddie]

(01-13-2017 10:29 PM)2Wycked Wrote:  

I know most of us would like to think that if we were in his shoes, we would take the high road or "do the right thing." But being paralyzed and left at the mercy of medical science and whims of others can crush a lesser man. Can we really know how we would act in similar straits? Only first-hand experience can test or forge a man.

I am certainly impressed with this man's message of forgiveness. What about you?

I certainly would not like to think that if I were in his shoes I would forgive the scumbag.

No, I would like to think that if some piece of shit shot me in the spinal column and paralyzed me, crushing every single dream I ever had and condemning me to a fate worse than death that would drag on for decades, I would somehow some way manage to have the fucker slowly annihilated by a blowtorch one layer of tissue at a time.

Some things I suppose can be forgiven, in my mind not so much for the sake of morals as for the sake of practicality. Being paralyzed for life is not one of them.

I also do not think that the propensity to "forgive" is a sign of some kind of abstract, objective superiority. Does the fact the Germans let themselves get beaten and raped by rapefugees on the regular with no hard feelings make them superior to a group that would eradicate every last rapefugee the very first time one of the rapefugees raped a woman ? I would argue the contrary that not only are they inferior because of it, but they are objectively and "scientifically" so, as their forgiving nature will lead to their eventual extinction as a people at the hands of those they so stupidly choose to forgive. If something makes you die out, it's probably not a good thing.

[Peregrine]

10 years is the going rate for attempted murder of a police officer? What the fuck?

Should get the death penalty.

[booshala]

This thread is not going in the direction the OP expected...

[brick tamland]

I've never heard of him. The NYPD is very far from squeaky clean. I bet the NYPD will give this man's life story a lot of mileage for years to come, all for good PR purposes.
In retrospect didn't the scenario that led to his shooting justify starting to train cops to expect the worst from minority youths and resort to overuse of lethal force as a default response.

[Leonard D Neubache]

In that situation I would hope that I had the humanity to snuff the offender quickly, knowing that causing him prolonged suffering before he died would only stain my own soul.

I would hope that in my heart I was ending him so that he could never do to anyone else what he did to me.

Tall order though.

[tarquin]

(01-14-2017 12:39 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 10:29 PM)2Wycked Wrote:  

I know most of us would like to think that if we were in his shoes, we would take the high road or "do the right thing." But being paralyzed and left at the mercy of medical science and whims of others can crush a lesser man. Can we really know how we would act in similar straits? Only first-hand experience can test or forge a man.

I am certainly impressed with this man's message of forgiveness. What about you?

I certainly would not like to think that if I were in his shoes I would forgive the scumbag.

No, I would like to think that if some piece of shit shot me in the spinal column and paralyzed me, crushing every single dream I ever had and condemning me to a fate worse than death that would drag on for decades, I would somehow some way manage to have the fucker slowly annihilated by a blowtorch one layer of tissue at a time.

Some things I suppose can be forgiven, in my mind not so much for the sake of morals as for the sake of practicality. Being paralyzed for life is not one of them.

I also do not think that the propensity to "forgive" is a sign of some kind of abstract, objective superiority. Does the fact the Germans let themselves get beaten and raped by rapefugees on the regular with no hard feelings make them superior to a group that would eradicate every last rapefugee the very first time one of the rapefugees raped a woman ? I would argue the contrary that not only are they inferior because of it, but they are objectively and "scientifically" so, as their forgiving nature will lead to their eventual extinction as a people at the hands of those they so stupidly choose to forgive. If something makes you die out, it's probably not a good thing.

I don't think he had any choice but to forgive. With no physical outlet he would very quickly drive himself mad with grief and anger.

[SegaSaturn1994]

To elaborate and extend on what tarquin just said; I may be a cynical bastard but I do wonder, every now and then, if the forgiveness is just putting on a face in some of these situations. Once you're hurt that badly and are left dependent for the rest of your life, it changes your world view for you as you realize that you depend on the good will of others to sustain your life to a great extent. Had he gone on a public rant cursing the perp, he could have been seen as not only a physically crushed shell of his former shelf but a bitter cripple who could not let go, regardless of how justified his anger was. He would have never received the positive press and adulation of major public figures if he had not put on the public face he did and thereby salvage what he could of his post-career life. He would have been swiftly forgotten by everyone but immediate family.

There's always also the chance, no matter how slight, of the perp's associates seeking disproportionate 'revenge' (finish the job) on a helpless person for calling the perp(s) on their misdeeds in a scathing manner. Once you're stuck in that wheelchair, all manner of bravado just leaves your body.

[2Wycked]

(01-14-2017 04:00 PM)SegaSaturn1994 Wrote:  

To elaborate and extend on what tarquin just said; I may be a cynical bastard but I do wonder, every now and then, if the forgiveness is just putting on a face in some of these situations. Once you're hurt that badly and are left dependent for the rest of your life, it changes your world view for you as you realize that you depend on the good will of others to sustain your life to a great extent. Had he gone on a public rant cursing the perp, he could have been seen as not only a physically crushed shell of his former shelf but a bitter cripple who could not let go, regardless of how justified his anger was. He would have never received the positive press and adulation of major public figures if he had not put on the public face he did and thereby salvage what he could of his post-career life. He would have been swiftly forgotten by everyone but immediate family.

There's always also the chance, no matter how slight, of the perp's associates seeking disproportionate 'revenge' (finish the job) on a helpless person for calling the perp(s) on their misdeeds in a scathing manner. Once you're stuck in that wheelchair, all manner of bravado just leaves your body.

There is a reason why I included a family photo -- this isn't just a story about a bicycle thief turned attempted murderer and an unlucky cop, there are two other major characters in this story, the wife and son.

His child was in utero at the time of the shooting. McDonald had to think about his son's life. Could you imagine never being able to hold your son in your arms on your own strength? I'd imagine after his initial rage and anger subsided, he decided he could either "get busy living (make the most of the situation) or get busy dying (stew in his juices)." Unfortunate circumstance thrust him into a difficult situation; he was still a man with a wife to lead and a son to raise. His dependent position in the world coupled with the need for a positive public persona most likely influenced his decisions, but I would imagine that his duty to his son and wife was the primary motivator in his decision to forgive his assailant and take up the torch for a moral cause.

I understand people's cynicism and desire for revenge -- I just don't think we, as regular folk, are best served by anger and vengeance. We can only do what we can, where we are at, with what we have. Given that his wife stood by him for his life and his son grew up to become a fine young man and officer is a testament to the wisdom of his decision to forgive the man who shot him.

[debeguiled]

Everyone gets the impulse for revenge, that is why forgiveness is so hard, and is the highest ideal possible, a viable option only to Jesus, Mary, Joseph, and now this guy.

The very fact that so many people can't understand how he can forgive is actually evidence for why it is a higher ideal. I doubt I could do it.

A writer whose name now escapes me once wrote that wanting to punch someone in the face and then willing yourself not to is as good a definition of civilization as any.

I can see why it appears the weak option, but it is in fact pro civilization, pro community, pro peace, pro maturity, and most especially pro mental health for the person doing the forgiving.

[Fast Eddie]

(01-14-2017 04:49 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

Everyone gets the impulse for revenge, that is why forgiveness is so hard, and is the highest ideal possible, a viable option only to Jesus, Mary, Joseph, and now this guy.

The very fact that so many people can't understand how he can forgive is actually evidence for why it is a higher ideal. I doubt I could do it.

A writer whose name now escapes me once wrote that wanting to punch someone in the face and then willing yourself not to is as good a definition of civilization as any.

I can see why it appears the weak option, but it is in fact pro civilization, pro community, pro peace, pro maturity, and most especially pro mental health for the person doing the forgiving.

I disagree. I do not see forgiveness as the highest ideal, or even an ideal at all. I am not religious, so just because forgiveness is elevated in a holy book or two does not mean anything to me. In order for me hold it as an ideal it would have to stand on its own objective merits. Strength is good. Intelligence is good. Determination is good. Forgiveness? Meh. I don't see it.

I would also dispute the idea that forgiveness is the basis of civilization. Law and its consequences is the basis of civilization. Forgiveness is the implication that actions will not have consequences and that the side that does evil will benefit from or destroy the side that is victimized. Again, look at the rapefugees and Germany.

[debeguiled]

(01-14-2017 05:05 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

I disagree. I do not see forgiveness as the highest ideal, or even an ideal at all. I am not religious, so just because forgiveness is elevated in a holy book or two does not mean anything to me. In order for me hold it as an ideal it would have to stand on its own objective merits. Strength is good. Intelligence is good. Determination is good. Forgiveness? Meh. I don't see it.

I would also dispute the idea that forgiveness is the basis of civilization. Law and its consequences is the basis of civilization. Forgiveness is the implication that actions will not have consequences and that the side that does evil will benefit from or destroy the side that is victimized. Again, look at the rapefugees and Germany.

I don't totally disagree with you, and the things you value, I just value forgiveness as well. Because it is a high ideal, it will never really be widespread, but only for the strong in character. If everyone forgave everything, there would be no consequences, and the psychos would take over.

On the other hand, endless eye for an eye blood feuds and we have no civilization and a bunch of blind crippled people trying to gum each other to death.

And I didn't say that forgiveness is the basis of civilization, I made the argument that self control is the basis of civilization, because even with laws and a police force, you still need people to control themselves for things to work.

As for the rapefugees, I see nothing wrong with forgiving them, after they have been locked up and the key thrown away.

[SamuelBRoberts]

It's worth pointing out that in Christianity, the Lord doesn't say "Forgive him, because eh, it's not that big a deal anyway. Besides, being mean and hurting people is wrong" like some pussy Sunday school teacher.
The Lord says, "Vengeance is Mine." IE If he does not truly repent, he'll have a particularly pissed off omnipotent being out for his ass, and that omnipotent being can do a lot worse than even a guy like Fisto could. Fisto can only torture the guy to death a maximum of one time, for example.

[Samseau]

I don't see why you can't forgive him as you push for the death penalty.

He made a mistake; he will suffer the consequences; and I hope he can find inner peace before he is judged.

The idea you forgive evil and let your Neighbors remain exposed to is not Christian.

[LeeEnfield303]

All that aside....the fact that DeBlasio is/was speaking at his funeral makes me puke.

[LeeEnfield303]

(01-14-2017 06:09 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

It's worth pointing out that in Christianity, the Lord doesn't say "Forgive him, because eh, it's not that big a deal anyway. Besides, being mean and hurting people is wrong" like some pussy Sunday school teacher.
The Lord says, "Vengeance is Mine." IE If he does not truly repent, he'll have a particularly pissed off omnipotent being out for his ass, and that omnipotent being can do a lot worse than even a guy like Fisto could. Fisto can only torture the guy to death a maximum of one time, for example.

Yup. The Old Testament is still a part of the Bible, kids.

[BortimusPrime]

The reason forgiveness is pushed so heavily is that vengeance tends to have dyscivic effects on society as a whole. Every honor-based society is balanced on a knife edge of ritualized polite interactions, easily tipped over into a bloodbath of extrajudicial retaliation. Compared to an ankle monitor or prison term, it may feel more satisfying watching a pedophile in a third world village get set on fire and burn to death twitching grotesquely for the amusement of the mob, but our pussy legal system at least is forced to actually determine guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

So that's really the reason why the public is propagandized with "forgiveness" stories. Back in the old days it was pushed through the New Testament, nowadays mostly through movies and TV. Half of the villains in movies have revenge as their motivation, and they invariably fail due to that need for revenge, but all of that is fiction trying to socialize the viewer. The victims of crime who publicly profess forgiveness are largely just admitting that society renders them impotent to avenge themselves, as the punishment they would face from the state makes that vengeance too costly to them. SegaSaturn1994 makes a good point too, that the victim is also obliged to claim forgiveness because our society is socialized to expect that, and a bitter cripple would lose our sympathies because he's no longer playing the movie role of a good guy in our programmed minds.

The whole thing reminds me of the paradox of strict Christians (Evangelicals, Mormons, etc) having better life outcomes than the nonreligious despite ascribing to a version of reality that simply isn't supported by scientific observation. I mean biologists know damn well how natural selection works, yet they're generally libtards that have 0.5 children on average and want to fill their country with brown people who hate them, so circle that square...

[The Lizard of Oz]

True forgiveness is one of the most beautiful and profound human actions; it is one of the serious big MOVES that change the game of life. It is also often the most practical and forward-looking move -- which is, of course, something that does not negate or contradict its depth and beauty.

However, it has been of the special evils of the Year Zero left that their sleazy co-optation of the beautiful idea of forgiveness -- and its lesser bastard cousins, like "empathy" -- has cheapened and sullied these concepts and evacuated them of their true human meaning. The endless mounds of canting text invoking "forgiveness", written by monsters who forgive no one and nothing, has made one feel that the only humanly decent thing to do under any and all circumstances is to pick up a sturdy Rwandan machete, gleefully sharpen it at night, and then go out with the first light of dawn and keep hacking until your arm falls off -- and then reattach the arm and repeat the same procedure every day for the next hundred years.

There will always be a special place reserved for real forgiveness and real empathy within the modest and precious confines of what matters most: our everyday life and relations with family, friends, and strangers. But as a public concept, it is dead for now; the stench of decades of Year Zero cant is too strong, it has rotted the very words from within. The entire Year Zero discourse must be routed before some of the ideas that it has infected with its rot can regain public currency.

Fortunately, the world-changing election of Trump will greatly accelerate this process; we can already see the prestige rapidly draining away from every variety of canting text in the eyes of normal people who had, until now, accepted its authority without question. This process must run its course; and once it is completed -- and once some real things have happened in the world at large which rout and contradict every canting Year Zero dogma -- so many beautiful human ideas can be restored to their rightful place in the public discourse, with true forgiveness and fellow-feeling among the jewels in the crown, sparkling in their delicate way after they've been cleansed of the filth and slime that had encased them for too long.