[Boldoff]

I've been visiting family in Russia recently and it seems like opportunities here are springing up for work and I like the idea of living on my ancestral land. Problem is that when I talk to he higher up guys, they're on a completely different wavelength.

The guys who served in war, made it to the top of business, and respected gov't officials seem to carry some intense life emotional scars/toughness that I can't even imagine, since these guys through natural Darwinism, rose to the top of a masculine society.

The west has conditioned me differently, and although the manosphere has helped me stand out more masculine amongst my own generation, I feel like an unproven dandy around these roughnecks. I'm afraid I won't be able to keep up with people raised in this society but it might be an age thing too.

There are no rules in this playing field, it's a dog eat dog situation, with little regulation and a lot of reliance on networking. There is no merit, only will and ruthlessness. You need to know the right people and be willing to step on toes.

Question is, has anyone successfully transitioned to such a hypermasculine society and done well from a western society?

[fokker]

Do you speak Russian?

[Boldoff]

I know "street Russian" that I learned from my parents, but I need to learn how to read and write, maybe add some more advanced vocabulary.

[scotian]

How much time have you spent hanging around masculine men in the US? Maybe you should try that first.

[kavi]

Well I'm currently in pakistan and have spent 18 weeks here in total over the last year or so. This is for a business I am looking to start and it has been somewhat diffocult but not impossible. I am here only to procure goods and services but it is hard to know who to trust.

I have been able to get most of the work i needed done to a decent started nonetheless, so i guess you can call that a success.

If you wanna go to russia then go, its only a cultural difference that you will pick up in no time.

[BelyyTigr]

(01-07-2017 08:58 AM)Boldoff Wrote:  

I've been visiting family in Russia recently and it seems like opportunities here are springing up for work and I like the idea of living on my ancestral land. Problem is that when I talk to he higher up guys, they're on a completely different wavelength.

The guys who served in war, made it to the top of business, and respected gov't officials seem to carry some intense life emotional scars/toughness that I can't even imagine, since these guys through natural Darwinism, rose to the top of a masculine society.

The west has conditioned me differently, and although the manosphere has helped me stand out more masculine amongst my own generation, I feel like an unproven dandy around these roughnecks. I'm afraid I won't be able to keep up with people raised in this society but it might be an age thing too.

There are no rules in this playing field, it's a dog eat dog situation, with little regulation and a lot of reliance on networking. There is no merit, only will and ruthlessness. You need to know the right people and be willing to step on toes.

Question is, has anyone successfully transitioned to such a hypermasculine society and done well from a western society?

I haven't made the step yet, but I'm making preparatory moves. Russia, atleast 6months of each year, appeals greatly to me. For various reasons - my ancestral home, its non alignment, its youthful feel, its traditionalisms etc. My mindset is also Russian rather than English in different ways (atleast acc to Russian friends).

In England, I feel like an alien in the country of my birth. Women are becoming masculine, males becoming feminine and everyone seems to be kissing ass to the 3rd world immigrants.

I think Russia is changing. 90s shock capitalism has had an indelible effect, but there seem to be new entrepreneur types emerging now.

[RawGod]

Interesting thread. I have Eastern European roots myself and am considering relocating. Part of me has an affinity for that style of masculinity, but it's not fully native to me and I don't want to be some kind of faker. It's a great opportunity for personal growth overall.

[reciproke]

I really enjoy this kind of atmosphere of competition and masculinity. It makes me feel alive.

First thing guys notice (well, after how pretty the women are) is the facial expression of russian guys - it's they are in a constant bad mood.

It's nothing personal. You actually start to relate and do it yourself. I think its more natural for guys to not run around all smily like a retarded puppy. When I went to a Gym where they had MMA classes I noticed the abundance of super hot girls in distracting clothing and the super jacked, tattoed russian men with a grim facial expressions. And they were all looking at me when I entered and moved around. I felt uncomfortable for a few seconds, but then a "IDGAF" Mindset switched on. Sweet. Love it.

An anecdote to that: When the King Kong(2005) movie was made, the guy animating King Kong said he watched Gorillas in Zoos and in their natural habitats and he noticed how the Gorillas in their natural habitat had more relaxed and serious facial expressions. Quite interesting.

Comparing yourself to someone else is a feminine thing to do. You can get inspired, be humbled and have respect, yes, but it's not this petty comparison girls do. Competetion is alright, too, obviously. But as long as you have solid foundation and continue to improve yourself, you are probably good enough and shouldn't be self conscious.

When I was in the Army, the thing that inspired me the most was how laid back the guys who already deployed. The coolness was oozing out of their boots. You could sense the authority
and competence in them, ready to strike at any time, but having nothing to prove as well.

But I digress. To help you build and improve your foundation my advise is pretty straight forward. Strength Training to strengthen your body and nerves. Meditation to be calm and focussed. Do Martial Arts, I can't understate the benefits it has... while some men like to drink to bond, I've found that sparring is an excellent bonding experience for me personally. I see what your character is actually made of and what attitude you have. You (or I) might not be as technically proficient as me (or you), but respect will always grow out of it. Other than that, work on a ship for half a year. Go travelling with barely any money. Create a business from scratch. You get the idea - keep your head up and keep moving.

I've read somewhere in the forum how a member respects Russia to make a man out yourself. I love that quote. Everyone knows that Russia is a far cry away from being a paradise. Corruption, alcoholism and brutality are widespread and living there can be really fucked up. But men are men, women are women. Thats why we love going there. I think the atmosphere there will naturally pull you towards a more masculine behaviour. And women will reward this and nurture it as well. They will respond greatly to traditional masculine behaviour, which will be very rewarding for you as well.

TLDR: You're probably good to go and will get used to it. Worst case is you get thrown into cold water and have to adapt quickly. The experience is worth it, and you will bring strong alpha mannierisms back to your home country.

Hope that helps.

[rainy]

I've been working on a move to Bulgaria for a little while now, just spent a few months over there. Bulgaria obviously has a number of similarities to Russia, particularly in how men carry themselves and how feminine women have remained.

I personally enjoy the difference compared to my current hellhole of SF. There's a natural masculinity in me which flourishes in the harsher Bulgarian environment and I'm free to speak my mind without concern of offending, unlike in SF. You really have to tiptoe around the lefties here. The way I naturally carry myself over there makes immediate enemies here in SF. I still work for an employer so I have to play their game.

From my experience around some hardened Bulgarians, Russians too, is they respect confidence and straight shooters. If you respect yourself, hold your head high, speak what's on your mind and hold firm when needed, that respect will be returned. But it's simply a general alpha mindset but unlike the West, you're in more of an alpha environment. When we move permanently over there I'll be working in IT and venturing towards a startup. In this scenario, stepping on toes doesn't play into the equation as much. I'm not sure what the OP's occupation is but referencing the cutthroat competition in Russia implies another sector.

One concern, and this goes for both Bulgaria and Russia is the mafia will generally leave you alone, but they're both mafia run states. If you're going to start a company and eventually pull in some real money, you likely will be approached and will have to butter some fingers. I haven't found a way around that possibility even with local connections in both law enforcement and a pretty successful local businessman. They've both said if you're successful enough you flat out will have to pay for the right to remain successful and there's nothing the police can or will do about it.

In my experience, and I'll do this if pursuing another one of my interest(import/export) is that when meeting with local businessmen or when negotiating with various local connections, you'll need a Russian or two there with you, partners. In that part of the world you're less likely to get taken advantage of if others know or presume you have local connections and aren't some lonely foreigner attempting to go at it alone. That frankly, is quite important.

[Zanardi]

(01-07-2017 08:58 AM)Boldoff Wrote:  

The guys who served in war, made it to the top of business, and respected gov't officials seem to carry some intense life emotional scars/toughness that I can't even imagine, since these guys through natural Darwinism, rose to the top of a masculine society.

[...]

There are no rules in this playing field, it's a dog eat dog situation, with little regulation and a lot of reliance on networking. There is no merit, only will and ruthlessness. You need to know the right people and be willing to step on toes.

Question is, has anyone successfully transitioned to such a hypermasculine society and done well from a western society?

I haven't got the chance yet to enter such a hyper masculine society, but when I enter a society made of men more valuable and/or more masculine than I am, I go by these rules:

1. Don't be afraid
2. Show respect for the others
3. Shut the fuck up and learn
   

It worked for me.

Next time, I plan to go to a mentor of mine and tell him straight to the point: "I admire you and I want to have your money, power and status. Please, teach me. I'll be the best student you had".

[Parzival]

Prison. Separate the boys from the men. Still wasn't a nice time.
The main thing is confidence build on experience / skills. Not an arrogant attitude. When you managed some task in life, some hardship. War an prison maybe the extremes. But taken responsibility for your life. Lift weights, material arts with sparring, some street fights. Run your own business. Maybe. Still be successful with money is one thing, doesn't make you more manly direct. Just be a thug neither.

From encounters with different people, what get you the most respect is when you stand your word and not a chicken shit. There will be always someone bigger, stronger, faster. Someone more thug, more hard. I got along with most people because I speak my mind - in a mannered way - and stand my ground. When you are a poser, faker or wannabe sooner or later they will expose you. When some guy just say, I'm not into fights, into this or that my priorities are drawing and arts. Then he may seem less manly but I prefer this person over a wannabe thug guy.

What made you the most hard is life itself. To live it, explore it and dare it.
Full Metal Jacket has this scene that kind of describe the attitude you need:

[tomzestatlu]

Is the situation at the west so bad, that "normal men" must be observed as different species?
Learn from this.

[The Beast1]

Start small.

As others have said: be quiet, listen, show respect, defer to elder leadership, and ask questions in private.

For building up your own confidence, i'd say hit the gym first and then maybe if you'd want do a little mma. Fighting even in a training environment pus things in perspective.

This was a very good question to ask.

[bushcraft9]

This is a good thread. I moved to Bulgaria when I was younger, I had moved from a western country where kids were pussies, and straight away I noticed the masculinity in the kids (I was 14 at time) compared to my home country. Nearly everyone was doing martial arts (wrestling, Judo, boxing) and boy did I have to sink or swim in this new environment to suvive. To the present, I don't think really anything you did in the past affects your ability to be tough in the now. Sometimes I will go through stages of being strong then other times not so much. But just remember you got to be in it to win it, like going for a run, this week one day I managed to do a good session of running, next day thought I would go better but didn't. That is how it goes sometimes.

[Parzival]

Something to add. Eastern European countries are maybe more masculine. Still they are less developed.