[Wizard]

This is a theory I've been working because it mostly relates to me, and guys like me. It's a problem I've seen a couple of times, and I was wondering what everyone else's thoughts are about it.

Theory
This will generally apply to those who fit the bill for the WBAFC or (Way -Below-Average-Frustrated-Chump) in my opinion this isn't the same as an AFC. Because even an AFC can stumble upon pussy by accident once in a while, but an WBAFC is a bit different.

These are the guys who have no social skills, and basically had no friends in high school or hung out with a small group of like minded WBAFC. Some have never kissed a girl, or even gotten laid. A lot of the times they retreat inside themselves or various hobbies, gaming, reading, letting life pass them by.

Then in some way or another they might stumble upon the seduction community, and begin to get a slight insight. So they might learn just enough to upgrade themselves to an AFC, and that's when they get their first taste of actual female attention, that things become... bad.

I once again want to emphasize that it might be hard for people on this forum to get into their mindset, but try. These are guys who would consider lucky themselves if a freaking 4 would give them the time of days. Girls that are 7-10 are something so far beyond their scope, that they are like freaking unicorns. The concept that they could even get a girl like that is something alien to them, and go against a lifetime of experience and societal conditioning.

Now though that get a little attention, a lot of these guys experience what I like to call "Pussy Shock". Because deep down these guys are still desperate for any kind of female attention, and once they get it... well their mind goes into a scarce mentality over drive. They become so afraid of loosing it that they will do almost anything to keep getting the slightest bit of attention, and what little game they have goes out the window.

The girls themselves don't make this easy because they are mostly chubby chicks who never got this kind of attention before, and now they suddenly feel a rush of bitchy power, and they use it. It's a vicious cycle that can end up making a guy either find himself marrying some fucking 4, or even worse providing for her while does her own thing.

I realize that a guy like this must seem pretty fucking pathetic, and your damn right it is fucking pathetic. The sad truth is that 95% of these guys will be like this the rest of their lives, and end up in marriage that will suck the souls out of them for their entire lives. It's really only 5% that manage to pull themselves up, and it usually involves a hellish amount of work.

Advice
Coming from personal experience, the easiest way I've seen to combat this kind of thing is create a pretty intense program of self-development. IE always make sure your doing something to improve yourself, and imposing a general no girlfriend rule for at least a year.

Also forums like this really do help, because they provide a goal that a person can strive to attain.

So anyway, this is of course just my own personal thoughts. I'm curious to see what other people think.

[Pusscrook]

(08-15-2011 04:24 PM)Wizard Wrote:  

This is a theory I've been working because it mostly relates to me, and guys like me. It's a problem I've seen a couple of times, and I was wondering what everyone else's thoughts are about it.

Theory
This will generally apply to those who fit the bill for the WBAFC or (Way -Below-Average-Frustrated-Chump) in my opinion this isn't the same as an AFC. Because even an AFC can stumble upon pussy by accident once in a while, but an WBAFC is a bit different.

These are the guys who have no social skills, and basically had no friends in high school or hung out with a small group of like minded WBAFC. Some have never kissed a girl, or even gotten laid. A lot of the times they retreat inside themselves or various hobbies, gaming, reading, letting life pass them by.

Then in some way or another they might stumble upon the seduction community, and begin to get a slight insight. So they might learn just enough to upgrade themselves to an AFC, and that's when they get their first taste of actual female attention, that things become... bad.

I once again want to emphasize that it might be hard for people on this forum to get into their mindset, but try. These are guys who would consider lucky themselves if a freaking 4 would give them the time of days. Girls that are 7-10 are something so far beyond their scope, that they are like freaking unicorns. The concept that they could even get a girl like that is something alien to them, and go against a lifetime of experience and societal conditioning.

Now though that get a little attention, a lot of these guys experience what I like to call "Pussy Shock". Because deep down these guys are still desperate for any kind of female attention, and once they get it... well their mind goes into a scarce mentality over drive. They become so afraid of loosing it that they will do almost anything to keep getting the slightest bit of attention, and what little game they have goes out the window.

The girls themselves don't make this easy because they are mostly chubby chicks who never got this kind of attention before, and now they suddenly feel a rush of bitchy power, and they use it. It's a vicious cycle that can end up making a guy either find himself marrying some fucking 4, or even worse providing for her while does her own thing.

I realize that a guy like this must seem pretty fucking pathetic, and your damn right it is fucking pathetic. The sad truth is that 95% of these guys will be like this the rest of their lives, and end up in marriage that will suck the souls out of them for their entire lives. It's really only 5% that manage to pull themselves up, and it usually involves a hellish amount of work.

Advice
Coming from personal experience, the easiest way I've seen to combat this kind of thing is create a pretty intense program of self-development. IE always make sure your doing something to improve yourself, and imposing a general no girlfriend rule for at least a year.

Also forums like this really do help, because they provide a goal that a person can strive to attain.

So anyway, this is of course just my own personal thoughts. I'm curious to see what other people think.

Very interesting , Wizard

Questions for you:
1. have you ever been molested or abused?
2. Do you ever have a feeling of abandonment?
3. How often do you masturbate?
4. When you masturbate, what do you think of?

May sound like strange questions, answer it if you're comfortable.

[Wizard]

(08-15-2011 04:57 PM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 04:24 PM)Wizard Wrote:  

This is a theory I've been working because it mostly relates to me, and guys like me. It's a problem I've seen a couple of times, and I was wondering what everyone else's thoughts are about it.

Theory
This will generally apply to those who fit the bill for the WBAFC or (Way -Below-Average-Frustrated-Chump) in my opinion this isn't the same as an AFC. Because even an AFC can stumble upon pussy by accident once in a while, but an WBAFC is a bit different.

These are the guys who have no social skills, and basically had no friends in high school or hung out with a small group of like minded WBAFC. Some have never kissed a girl, or even gotten laid. A lot of the times they retreat inside themselves or various hobbies, gaming, reading, letting life pass them by.

Then in some way or another they might stumble upon the seduction community, and begin to get a slight insight. So they might learn just enough to upgrade themselves to an AFC, and that's when they get their first taste of actual female attention, that things become... bad.

I once again want to emphasize that it might be hard for people on this forum to get into their mindset, but try. These are guys who would consider lucky themselves if a freaking 4 would give them the time of days. Girls that are 7-10 are something so far beyond their scope, that they are like freaking unicorns. The concept that they could even get a girl like that is something alien to them, and go against a lifetime of experience and societal conditioning.

Now though that get a little attention, a lot of these guys experience what I like to call "Pussy Shock". Because deep down these guys are still desperate for any kind of female attention, and once they get it... well their mind goes into a scarce mentality over drive. They become so afraid of loosing it that they will do almost anything to keep getting the slightest bit of attention, and what little game they have goes out the window.

The girls themselves don't make this easy because they are mostly chubby chicks who never got this kind of attention before, and now they suddenly feel a rush of bitchy power, and they use it. It's a vicious cycle that can end up making a guy either find himself marrying some fucking 4, or even worse providing for her while does her own thing.

I realize that a guy like this must seem pretty fucking pathetic, and your damn right it is fucking pathetic. The sad truth is that 95% of these guys will be like this the rest of their lives, and end up in marriage that will suck the souls out of them for their entire lives. It's really only 5% that manage to pull themselves up, and it usually involves a hellish amount of work.

Advice
Coming from personal experience, the easiest way I've seen to combat this kind of thing is create a pretty intense program of self-development. IE always make sure your doing something to improve yourself, and imposing a general no girlfriend rule for at least a year.

Also forums like this really do help, because they provide a goal that a person can strive to attain.

So anyway, this is of course just my own personal thoughts. I'm curious to see what other people think.

Very interesting , Wizard

Questions for you:
1. have you ever been molested or abused?
2. Do you ever have a feeling of abandonment?
3. How often do you masturbate?
4. When you masturbate, what do you think of?

May sound like strange questions, answer it if you're comfortable.

Yeah those are some pretty strange questions. and not really worth answering.

[Pusscrook]

(08-15-2011 05:00 PM)Wizard Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 04:57 PM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 04:24 PM)Wizard Wrote:  

This is a theory I've been working because it mostly relates to me, and guys like me. It's a problem I've seen a couple of times, and I was wondering what everyone else's thoughts are about it.

Theory
This will generally apply to those who fit the bill for the WBAFC or (Way -Below-Average-Frustrated-Chump) in my opinion this isn't the same as an AFC. Because even an AFC can stumble upon pussy by accident once in a while, but an WBAFC is a bit different.

These are the guys who have no social skills, and basically had no friends in high school or hung out with a small group of like minded WBAFC. Some have never kissed a girl, or even gotten laid. A lot of the times they retreat inside themselves or various hobbies, gaming, reading, letting life pass them by.

Then in some way or another they might stumble upon the seduction community, and begin to get a slight insight. So they might learn just enough to upgrade themselves to an AFC, and that's when they get their first taste of actual female attention, that things become... bad.

I once again want to emphasize that it might be hard for people on this forum to get into their mindset, but try. These are guys who would consider lucky themselves if a freaking 4 would give them the time of days. Girls that are 7-10 are something so far beyond their scope, that they are like freaking unicorns. The concept that they could even get a girl like that is something alien to them, and go against a lifetime of experience and societal conditioning.

Now though that get a little attention, a lot of these guys experience what I like to call "Pussy Shock". Because deep down these guys are still desperate for any kind of female attention, and once they get it... well their mind goes into a scarce mentality over drive. They become so afraid of loosing it that they will do almost anything to keep getting the slightest bit of attention, and what little game they have goes out the window.

The girls themselves don't make this easy because they are mostly chubby chicks who never got this kind of attention before, and now they suddenly feel a rush of bitchy power, and they use it. It's a vicious cycle that can end up making a guy either find himself marrying some fucking 4, or even worse providing for her while does her own thing.

I realize that a guy like this must seem pretty fucking pathetic, and your damn right it is fucking pathetic. The sad truth is that 95% of these guys will be like this the rest of their lives, and end up in marriage that will suck the souls out of them for their entire lives. It's really only 5% that manage to pull themselves up, and it usually involves a hellish amount of work.

Advice
Coming from personal experience, the easiest way I've seen to combat this kind of thing is create a pretty intense program of self-development. IE always make sure your doing something to improve yourself, and imposing a general no girlfriend rule for at least a year.

Also forums like this really do help, because they provide a goal that a person can strive to attain.

So anyway, this is of course just my own personal thoughts. I'm curious to see what other people think.

Very interesting , Wizard

Questions for you:
1. have you ever been molested or abused?
2. Do you ever have a feeling of abandonment?
3. How often do you masturbate?
4. When you masturbate, what do you think of?

May sound like strange questions, answer it if you're comfortable.

Yeah those are some pretty strange questions. and not really worth answering.

Goes to state of mind, but i understand. Sometimes the root is bitter, but harvest is sweet

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I can emphasize with most of this thread, as that was my starting place. I have managed to grow beyond the simple AFC though, and as you say it was often a hellish experience. I am not sure what to offer for advice though, as nothing else but a fierce drive for self-improvement will work.

Regardless, I applaud anyone who strives for self-improvement, rather than joining the legions of frustrated men who still white-knight the bitches as a second nature

[Gmac]

I knew a guy in high school that fits the bill.

Overweight, acne-prone, anti-social, home dwelling loser. He is still living with his parents in his late 20s, unemployed. Back then he spent all of his time watching (formerly) WWF and researching new video games and spending all of his money on console games.

I checked up on him about 2 years ago, he hasn't changed. He lives there in exchange for cooking, cleaning, and doing other chores. He spent a semester in college but it was too much for him, so he gave up. He'll probably spend the rest of his life without even touching another girl. Or maybe turn he'll into a serial killer... who knows?

Most of these guys are unreachable, I don't bother anymore. I've had less luck with betas, much less these creatures.

If I hadn't altered my own path sometime in college, it's likely I would have ended up with a similar fate. Luckily for me, I wanted to change.

[Wizard]

(08-15-2011 05:06 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

I can emphasize with most of this thread, as that was my starting place. I have managed to grow beyond the simple AFC though, and as you say it was often a hellish experience. I am not sure what to offer for advice though, as nothing else but a fierce drive for self-improvement will work.

Regardless, I applaud anyone who strives for self-improvement, rather than joining the legions of frustrated men who still white-knight the bitches as a second nature

Yeah the problem with offering advice for something like this, is each guy has to find his own little source of motivation. Something to keep him going through all the failures.

[Pusscrook]

(08-15-2011 05:10 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

I know a guy that fits the bill that I knew in high school.

Overweight, acne-prone, anti-social, home dwelling loser. He is still living with his parents in his late 20s, unemployed. Back then he spent all of his time watching (formerly) WWF and researching new video games and spending all of his money on console games.

I checked up on him about 2 years ago, he hasn't changed. He lives there in exchange for cooking, cleaning, and doing other chores. He spent a semester in college but it was too much for him, so he gave up. He'll probably spend the rest of his life without even touching another girl. Or maybe turn he'll into a serial killer... who knows?

Most of these guys are unreachable, I don't bother anymore. I've had less luck with betas, much less these creatures.

That's why I asked those "strange" questions.

[Wizard]

(08-15-2011 05:10 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

I knew a guy in high school that fits the bill.

Overweight, acne-prone, anti-social, home dwelling loser. He is still living with his parents in his late 20s, unemployed. Back then he spent all of his time watching (formerly) WWF and researching new video games and spending all of his money on console games.

I checked up on him about 2 years ago, he hasn't changed. He lives there in exchange for cooking, cleaning, and doing other chores. He spent a semester in college but it was too much for him, so he gave up. He'll probably spend the rest of his life without even touching another girl. Or maybe turn he'll into a serial killer... who knows?

Most of these guys are unreachable, I don't bother anymore. I've had less luck with betas, much less these creatures.

If I hadn't altered my own path sometime in college, it's likely I would have ended up with a similar fate. Luckily for me, I wanted to change.

It's a pretty familiar story, it takes a hell of a lot of work to change directions when your on this path.

@Pusscrook
Noted, thanks for the clarification.

[Pusscrook]

(08-15-2011 05:21 PM)Wizard Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 05:10 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

I knew a guy in high school that fits the bill.

Overweight, acne-prone, anti-social, home dwelling loser. He is still living with his parents in his late 20s, unemployed. Back then he spent all of his time watching (formerly) WWF and researching new video games and spending all of his money on console games.

I checked up on him about 2 years ago, he hasn't changed. He lives there in exchange for cooking, cleaning, and doing other chores. He spent a semester in college but it was too much for him, so he gave up. He'll probably spend the rest of his life without even touching another girl. Or maybe turn he'll into a serial killer... who knows?

Most of these guys are unreachable, I don't bother anymore. I've had less luck with betas, much less these creatures.

If I hadn't altered my own path sometime in college, it's likely I would have ended up with a similar fate. Luckily for me, I wanted to change.

It's a pretty familiar story, it takes a hell of a lot of work to change directions when your on this path.

@Pusscrook
Noted, thanks for the clarification.

how do you feel about"you"? I guess I'm trying to tell you that maybe this is a lot more serious than "game". This is a forum for games of all sorts that we concoct to get pussy in whatever way we can. This forum may not be the format for "change". It may have the opposite effect if you can't do the things you see written here.

[Wizard]

(08-15-2011 05:32 PM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 05:21 PM)Wizard Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 05:10 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

I knew a guy in high school that fits the bill.

Overweight, acne-prone, anti-social, home dwelling loser. He is still living with his parents in his late 20s, unemployed. Back then he spent all of his time watching (formerly) WWF and researching new video games and spending all of his money on console games.

I checked up on him about 2 years ago, he hasn't changed. He lives there in exchange for cooking, cleaning, and doing other chores. He spent a semester in college but it was too much for him, so he gave up. He'll probably spend the rest of his life without even touching another girl. Or maybe turn he'll into a serial killer... who knows?

Most of these guys are unreachable, I don't bother anymore. I've had less luck with betas, much less these creatures.

If I hadn't altered my own path sometime in college, it's likely I would have ended up with a similar fate. Luckily for me, I wanted to change.

It's a pretty familiar story, it takes a hell of a lot of work to change directions when your on this path.

@Pusscrook
Noted, thanks for the clarification.

how do you feel about"you"? I guess I'm trying to tell you that maybe this is a lot more serious than "game". This is a forum for games of all sorts that we concoct to get pussy in whatever way we can. This forum may not be the format for "change". It may have the opposite effect if you can't do the things you see written here.

Personally? I feel fucking great about things actually, I'm excited as hell to where my life is going. Would I prefer it to 9-10 months on down the line to when I take my first trip abroad? Hell yes, but since that's not the case, I'm just enjoying the ride.

This theory of mine isn't about some kid molested at a child, and psychologically damaged for the rest of their lives. It usually applies to the geeks out there.

I've beyond that point though a while ago.

[joeblow]

(08-15-2011 04:24 PM)Wizard Wrote:  

This is a theory I've been working because it mostly relates to me, and guys like me. It's a problem I've seen a couple of times, and I was wondering what everyone else's thoughts are about it.

...

That AFC pretty much described me in HS and afterwards. This was long before there was an internet. But my case is different from what you describe. No way in hell I will get married, or "settle", for anyone.

No one taught me these things that are discussed here. It was my lack of knowledge; primarily the sex differences in thinking. I thought they thought like men. You all know how silly that is.

Then when I came to understand a few things, thru trial and error (lots of error...), I was pretty much disgusted with women and no longer gave a damn about them one way or the other.

When women showed interest, it would not flatter me. It would depress me. I walked away from I know were sure things simply because I no longer cared. That is when I learned that women respond to being ignored. But I didn't want them to respond. I wanted them to GTFO. I was being real about ignoring them. It wasn't a PUA tactic to get into her pants.

It's too late for me. Studying to be a PUA would be like studying for a degree in Shitology. But now that this info is out there, hopefully no one else will have to go thru this. It wasn't fun.

[Pusscrook]

(08-15-2011 05:36 PM)Wizard Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 05:32 PM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 05:21 PM)Wizard Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 05:10 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

I knew a guy in high school that fits the bill.

Overweight, acne-prone, anti-social, home dwelling loser. He is still living with his parents in his late 20s, unemployed. Back then he spent all of his time watching (formerly) WWF and researching new video games and spending all of his money on console games.

I checked up on him about 2 years ago, he hasn't changed. He lives there in exchange for cooking, cleaning, and doing other chores. He spent a semester in college but it was too much for him, so he gave up. He'll probably spend the rest of his life without even touching another girl. Or maybe turn he'll into a serial killer... who knows?

Most of these guys are unreachable, I don't bother anymore. I've had less luck with betas, much less these creatures.

If I hadn't altered my own path sometime in college, it's likely I would have ended up with a similar fate. Luckily for me, I wanted to change.

It's a pretty familiar story, it takes a hell of a lot of work to change directions when your on this path.

@Pusscrook
Noted, thanks for the clarification.

how do you feel about"you"? I guess I'm trying to tell you that maybe this is a lot more serious than "game". This is a forum for games of all sorts that we concoct to get pussy in whatever way we can. This forum may not be the format for "change". It may have the opposite effect if you can't do the things you see written here.

Personally? I feel fucking great about things actually, I'm excited as hell to where my life is going. Would I prefer it to 9-10 months on down the line to when I take my first trip abroad? Hell yes, but since that's not the case, I'm just enjoying the ride.

This theory of mine isn't about some kid molested at a child, and psychologically damaged for the rest of their lives. It usually applies to the geeks out there.

I've beyond that point though a while ago.

Hmmm, well you said the "theory " relates to you , then you describe the guys to whom this "theory" seems to be pinpointed at. You go on to call it "wbafc" and are descriptive about it. Yet remember this relates to you. Hence , my question, "how do you feel about you". you then replied, "personally , I feel fucking great about things actually". Is this theory mutually exclusive?

[megaframe]

Yeah, I was there once. Granted, I wasn't fat, ugly, or friendless, I just wasn't successful with women. Even in high school, most guys usually have some girl, even if it's just for prom or something. Not me. The worst part about it is that it spawned a belief that you had to be rich, attractive, or famous to get women. I was none of these. Luckily I came across game. Reading some of Mystery's stuff seemed to be counter-intuitive, and I first believed that it was all a trick to "brainwash" women like so many of the haters claim. It was still interesting, though, so I kept reading it. I never had a full transition until about a year ago when I found Roissy's blog, and soon after, Roosh. These two blogs have been on for years, and it was a goldmine of information. I came upon Roosh's "The Secret To Getting Laid" post, and decided to change my life. I can't say that game has made me bang supermodels, but I can say it's helped me infinitely more than any woman's "advice" on relationships ever has.

[Wizard]

(08-15-2011 05:48 PM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 05:36 PM)Wizard Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 05:32 PM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 05:21 PM)Wizard Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 05:10 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

I knew a guy in high school that fits the bill.

Overweight, acne-prone, anti-social, home dwelling loser. He is still living with his parents in his late 20s, unemployed. Back then he spent all of his time watching (formerly) WWF and researching new video games and spending all of his money on console games.

I checked up on him about 2 years ago, he hasn't changed. He lives there in exchange for cooking, cleaning, and doing other chores. He spent a semester in college but it was too much for him, so he gave up. He'll probably spend the rest of his life without even touching another girl. Or maybe turn he'll into a serial killer... who knows?

Most of these guys are unreachable, I don't bother anymore. I've had less luck with betas, much less these creatures.

If I hadn't altered my own path sometime in college, it's likely I would have ended up with a similar fate. Luckily for me, I wanted to change.

It's a pretty familiar story, it takes a hell of a lot of work to change directions when your on this path.

@Pusscrook
Noted, thanks for the clarification.

how do you feel about"you"? I guess I'm trying to tell you that maybe this is a lot more serious than "game". This is a forum for games of all sorts that we concoct to get pussy in whatever way we can. This forum may not be the format for "change". It may have the opposite effect if you can't do the things you see written here.

Personally? I feel fucking great about things actually, I'm excited as hell to where my life is going. Would I prefer it to 9-10 months on down the line to when I take my first trip abroad? Hell yes, but since that's not the case, I'm just enjoying the ride.

This theory of mine isn't about some kid molested at a child, and psychologically damaged for the rest of their lives. It usually applies to the geeks out there.

I've beyond that point though a while ago.

Hmmm, well you said the "theory " relates to you , then you describe the guys to whom this "theory" seems to be pinpointed at. You go on to call it "wbafc" and are descriptive about it. Yet remember this relates to you. Hence , my question, "how do you feel about you". you then replied, "personally , I feel fucking great about things actually". Is this theory mutually exclusive?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but let me see if I can answer you. It's not impossible for someone living an wbafc life to feel great about things, but most of the time it seems like there just lying to themselves. A psychological defense mechanism against being depressed.

This is of course just a theory based on my own personal experiences, and observation. I could be completely wrong about how other guys deal with it.


@megaframe
Yeah I agree, it's kind of a blurry line to classify someone as wbafc and maybe the term itself is wrong. It's good though that you've finally found out the truth.

[bmn200]

Is this the same as what some refer to as 'omega'?

[Amour Fou]

I've always thought those who call themselves "pua's" (of the Neil Strauss / Mystery variety) to be nothing better than "reformed" nerds. The whole peacoking, nerdy lingo, stupid conversation ("do you believe in spells...") could only come from a very geeky past, that isn't easily changed overnight.

It takes TIME and EFFORT to change so deeply that you are a completely different person and barely recognize yourself when you look at the mirror.

There is no easy way out, and it is not something that happens in a year or so, as described in a book such as "The Game".

And I have tons of respect for those few who can undertake such initiative.

As I see it, it is something much beyond acquiring game and banging girls, its to do with having the balls to get your whole life in track, where you want it to be, to actually be the person you aspire to.

That is what distinguish MEN from boys.

[CJ]

(08-15-2011 07:21 PM)bmn200 Wrote:  

Is this the same as what some refer to as 'omega'?

Ya, I'd say so.

(08-15-2011 05:10 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

I knew a guy in high school that fits the bill.

Overweight, acne-prone, anti-social, home dwelling loser. He is still living with his parents in his late 20s, unemployed. Back then he spent all of his time watching (formerly) WWF and researching new video games and spending all of his money on console games.

I checked up on him about 2 years ago, he hasn't changed. He lives there in exchange for cooking, cleaning, and doing other chores. He spent a semester in college but it was too much for him, so he gave up. He'll probably spend the rest of his life without even touching another girl. Or maybe turn he'll into a serial killer... who knows?

Most of these guys are unreachable, I don't bother anymore. I've had less luck with betas, much less these creatures.

If I hadn't altered my own path sometime in college, it's likely I would have ended up with a similar fate. Luckily for me, I wanted to change.

Interesting... this is a pretty close description to a good friend of mine, who I showed this forum too back in March. Mind you he was/is in good shape and not acne-prone, but never attempted going away to college. His issue was he just stayed at home and kind of hoped some day a girl would show up at his door. Well... that's basically what happened, and now 3 years later he's marrying her.

When I joined this forum I questioned how to get rid of the girl, and what magic power she had over him, to which Roosh replied the problem lay entirely within my friend. Over time I've come to understand exactly what he meant. I actually feel bad for this girl, and hope it all works out for the best, but I'm not sure he's gotten all his 'kicks' out yet. Especially after he had a brief taste of this lifestyle.

I think a lot of these 'omega' guys wouldn't even know what to do if they had opportunities, as they lack the drive to get laid. I guess it's natural selection in a way, but still very bizarre that you could put so much effort into something like video games, but none into the far more natural pleasure of getting women.

[silent_scope]

(08-15-2011 04:24 PM)Wizard Wrote:  

Theory
Now those that get a little attention, a lot of these guys experience what I like to call "Pussy Shock". Because deep down these guys are still desperate for any kind of female attention, and once they get it... well their mind goes into a scarce mentality over drive. They become so afraid of loosing it that they will do almost anything to keep getting the slightest bit of attention, and what little game they have goes out the window.

This is me. Finding it real difficult to break out of that "scarce mentality", when the simple fact is that female attention REALLY IS scarce in my life.

[Caligula]

Amour Fou gives a good overview of the core issue there: it takes time to change and improve.

Most men do not have the discipline to do this consistently over time. Those who do are rewarded. Regular rewards along the way can keep you motivated. If you have a knack for game the rewards start early. When you're starting from low confidence and poor game the rewards are fewer and far between in the beginning. But you can get there eventually.

Just don't waste your time trying to drag along those who lack the discipline or desire to improve over a long time.

The 'shock' is easy to fix. It just takes more exposure. More trial and error, more talking to girls and understanding how they're different and what that means.

Internalising this only comes with experience. Reading about game accelerates what you learn but it still takes hard fought experience.

[VeryNewtotheGame]

(08-15-2011 04:24 PM)Wizard Wrote:  

This is a theory I've been working because it mostly relates to me, and guys like me. It's a problem I've seen a couple of times, and I was wondering what everyone else's thoughts are about it.

Theory
This will generally apply to those who fit the bill for the WBAFC or (Way -Below-Average-Frustrated-Chump) in my opinion this isn't the same as an AFC. Because even an AFC can stumble upon pussy by accident once in a while, but an WBAFC is a bit different.

These are the guys who have no social skills, and basically had no friends in high school or hung out with a small group of like minded WBAFC. Some have never kissed a girl, or even gotten laid. A lot of the times they retreat inside themselves or various hobbies, gaming, reading, letting life pass them by.

Then in some way or another they might stumble upon the seduction community, and begin to get a slight insight. So they might learn just enough to upgrade themselves to an AFC, and that's when they get their first taste of actual female attention, that things become... bad.

I once again want to emphasize that it might be hard for people on this forum to get into their mindset, but try. These are guys who would consider lucky themselves if a freaking 4 would give them the time of days. Girls that are 7-10 are something so far beyond their scope, that they are like freaking unicorns. The concept that they could even get a girl like that is something alien to them, and go against a lifetime of experience and societal conditioning.

Now though that get a little attention, a lot of these guys experience what I like to call "Pussy Shock". Because deep down these guys are still desperate for any kind of female attention, and once they get it... well their mind goes into a scarce mentality over drive. They become so afraid of loosing it that they will do almost anything to keep getting the slightest bit of attention, and what little game they have goes out the window.

The girls themselves don't make this easy because they are mostly chubby chicks who never got this kind of attention before, and now they suddenly feel a rush of bitchy power, and they use it. It's a vicious cycle that can end up making a guy either find himself marrying some fucking 4, or even worse providing for her while does her own thing.

I realize that a guy like this must seem pretty fucking pathetic, and your damn right it is fucking pathetic. The sad truth is that 95% of these guys will be like this the rest of their lives, and end up in marriage that will suck the souls out of them for their entire lives. It's really only 5% that manage to pull themselves up, and it usually involves a hellish amount of work.

Advice
Coming from personal experience, the easiest way I've seen to combat this kind of thing is create a pretty intense program of self-development. IE always make sure your doing something to improve yourself, and imposing a general no girlfriend rule for at least a year.

Also forums like this really do help, because they provide a goal that a person can strive to attain.

So anyway, this is of course just my own personal thoughts. I'm curious to see what other people think.

Dude, genius. You hit the nail on the proverbial head. I just realized how important self-improvement really is a few months ago, and finding Roosh's book and the PUA community only solidified my intense drive and ambition to be the best man that I can be- not just for the women- but for myself- my own self esteem and my life.

As for the overdrive part- I fit the bill in the sense that I kept away from most social circles in high school, but when I get attention from females, I act like I don't notice or care- another extreme in itself. Now that I have found this forum, and more importantly my new motto in life- I never have a dull moment! Thanks Roosh!

[VeryNewtotheGame]

(08-15-2011 05:50 PM)megaframe Wrote:  

Yeah, I was there once. Granted, I wasn't fat, ugly, or friendless, I just wasn't successful with women. Even in high school, most guys usually have some girl, even if it's just for prom or something. Not me. The worst part about it is that it spawned a belief that you had to be rich, attractive, or famous to get women. I was none of these. Luckily I came across game. Reading some of Mystery's stuff seemed to be counter-intuitive, and I first believed that it was all a trick to "brainwash" women like so many of the haters claim. It was still interesting, though, so I kept reading it. I never had a full transition until about a year ago when I found Roissy's blog, and soon after, Roosh. These two blogs have been on for years, and it was a goldmine of information. I came upon Roosh's "The Secret To Getting Laid" post, and decided to change my life. I can't say that game has made me bang supermodels, but I can say it's helped me infinitely more than any woman's "advice" on relationships ever has.

Dude game will only take you so far. Even Roosh and Roissy have their limits. Mystery had his limits before he became rich and famous. At the end of the day, to pull the real 9s and 10s for good, you have to the best at something- and be rich as well. That's how its been for thousands of years!

[Vitriol]

In order to put the basement dweller / social dork phenomenon into perspective, you guys have to think about the social conditioning that all of us got for literally years on end between school and our jobs.

Go through school sitting at a desk and reading, taking orders from a teacher while avoiding any aggressive or confrontational behavior, so that you can get some lame office job, sitting in still in front of a computer for hours on end underneath flourescent lights. Your natural masculine instincts are conditioned out because things like fighting or hitting on girls aren't "nice", therefore you need to be somewhat rebellious just to keep your balls.

Keep in mind that during those years of social conditioning, the acceptable and easy things to do on your down time are watch television, movies, play video games, sit in front of a computer. All of these activities are very isolating and passive.

We're not trained to be men anymore, we're trained to be castrated efficient worker drones who don't rock the boat. The men who sit around with things like video games and star trek re-runs all day are actually the absurd conclusion of our education system and social conditioning. Sit there all day, don't go out and do anything that might be dangerous, don't bother anyone...

Now throw in the fact that in American Culture women are always seen as inherently better and without fault, and you'll have a fairly significant minority of men who simply drop out of the game and believe (as they're conditioned to) that they're not good enough for these princesses. A lifetime of entertainment media and pornography seems like the only option when you're constantly told that pretty much every girl is "out of your league" and that you'll just magically meet someone nice one day. The conventional wisdom on this topic is so ass backwards it's unbelievable, but pretty much everyone outside of the game community still believes it.

Fortunately, there are at least a handful of us who know better...

[VeryNewtotheGame]

(08-15-2011 10:26 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  

In order to put the basement dweller / social dork phenomenon into perspective, you guys have to think about the social conditioning that all of us got for literally years on end between school and our jobs.

Go through school sitting at a desk and reading, taking orders from a teacher while avoiding any aggressive or confrontational behavior, so that you can get some lame office job, sitting in still in front of a computer for hours on end underneath flourescent lights. Your natural masculine instincts are conditioned out because things like fighting or hitting on girls aren't "nice", therefore you need to be somewhat rebellious just to keep your balls.

Keep in mind that during those years of social conditioning, the acceptable and easy things to do on your down time are watch television, movies, play video games, sit in front of a computer. All of these activities are very isolating and passive.

We're not trained to be men anymore, we're trained to be castrated efficient worker drones who don't rock the boat. The men who sit around with things like video games and star trek re-runs all day are actually the absurd conclusion of our education system and social conditioning. Sit there all day, don't go out and do anything that might be dangerous, don't bother anyone...

Now throw in the fact that in American Culture women are always seen as inherently better and without fault, and you'll have a fairly significant minority of men who simply drop out of the game and believe (as they're conditioned to) that they're not good enough for these princesses. A lifetime of entertainment media and pornography seems like the only option when you're constantly told that pretty much every girl is "out of your league" and that you'll just magically meet someone nice one day. The conventional wisdom on this topic is so ass backwards it's unbelievable, but pretty much everyone outside of the game community still believes it.

Fortunately, there are at least a handful of us who know better...

Ten thumbs up. The emasculation of the modern day American male is saddening. Now all we need is Sarah Palin or that crazy nut Bachmann to be president. (She wants to ban "gays" from the military)

[oldnemesis]

(08-15-2011 04:24 PM)Wizard Wrote:  

Coming from personal experience, the easiest way I've seen to combat this kind of thing is create a pretty intense program of self-development.

Go to Thailand for two weeks with $4,000 and fuck four different girls a day (you'd have to actually push yourself after day three or so; do it). Every day.
When you return back, you'll be a different man.