[PolymathGuru]

I was wondering if the old sweet man stereotype is a by product of men becoming emasculated due to old age?

I often see this in my conversations with elderly men.

-Their ability to ramble about absolutely nothing(like a woman)
-Sweet demeanor(like a woman)
-Always looking for attention(like a woman)
-Always bothering you about stupid shit(like a woman)

I'm not here to bash the elderly. I wanted to know if anyone else has seen observations that contradict mine and what they do to hold onto their masculinity in old age.

[Hypno]

Clint Eastwood is 86, so I would say no.

Donald Trump is what, 70?

at some point you will be old enough you will have dementia, limited physical ability, etc. so yeah at that point you could say you are emasculated. But those are really health issues. If you had early-onset Alzheimers in your 40s yeah it would be emasculating.

[vinman]

No. As you age you tend to give less of a fuck about what other people think. I don't know what kind of old dudes you're hanging out with or why, but these are nothing like the old timers I know. I can't wait to get the old timers I know going.

[armenia4ever]

When my wife worked in a nursing home aka "assisted living" she mentioned that day after day it was essentially an STD hookup fest. Either old people don't care anymore when they reach that age, or they realize this is the best opportunities they have now that are all cooped up in one place.

At least one point of their masculinity is left, their ability to fuck - which they do a lot of. (Nursing homes have some of the highest STD rates. Live out raw I guess.

[John Michael Kane]

Yes, if they let themselves go. Lowering of T-levels are preventable if you lift weights and use HRT. Always having life goals no matter the age is important. I don't think it is a given that men lose it as they get older. If anything, they ought to be actively training the next generation through their wisdom and formation!

[RatInTheWoods]

Old blokes are the crankiest, DGAF, selfish asshole types going, so no.

[YoungBlade]

In many cultures yes. In Viking society certainly. Here's a quote from Egil's saga, a Viking who grew old, and thus useless:

Quote:

Egil Skallagrim's son now grew old, and in his old age became heavy in movement, and dull both in hearing and sight; he became also stiff in the legs. Egil was at Moss-fell with Grim and Thordis. It happened one day that as Egil went out along the house-wall he stumbled and fell. Some women saw this, and laughed, saying: 'You are now quite gone, Egil, if you fall when alone.' Then said the master Grim, 'Women jeered at us less when we were younger.' Egil then sang:

'Old haltered horse I waver,
Bald-head I weakly fall:
Hollow my failing leg-bones,
The fount of hearing dry.'

Egil became quite blind. And it was so that one day, when the weather was cold, Egil went to the fire to warm himself. Whereupon the cook said that it was a great wonder, so mighty a man as Egil had been, that he should lie in their way so that they could not do their work. 'Be you civil,' said Egil, 'though I bask by the fire, and let us bear and forbear about place.' 'Stand you up,' said she, 'and go to your seat, and let us do our work.' Egil stood up, and went to his place and sang:

'Blind near the blaze I wander,
Beg of the fire-maid pardon,
Crave for a seat. Such sorrow
From sightless eyes I bear.
Yet England's mighty monarch
Me whilom greatly honoured:
And princes once with pleasure
The poet's accents heard.'

Again, once when Egil went to the fire to warm himself, a man asked him whether his feet were cold, and warned him not to put them too near the fire. 'That shall be so,' said Egil; 'but 'tis not easy steering my feet now that I cannot see; a very dismal thing is blindness.' Then Egil sang:

'Lonely I lie,
And think it long,
Carle worn with eld
From kings' courts exiled.
Feet twain have I,
Frosty and cold,
Bedfellows needing
Blaze of fire.'

You get the idea.

[SegaSaturn1994]

I think it's the way of nature. You can do what you can to slow down aging but you cannot reverse it. Physical abilities decline through age and it's only appropriate that there are corresponding mental changes as well or else there would be a conflict leading to far more elderly suicide and violence because you would not want to have the ambition, horniness and drive of a young man in the body of a cripple and a wrinkly prune face. You do actually get to see this conflict when you take a strapping alpha in his mid 20's who ends up paralyzed and impotent because of a traffic accident or a freak illness. Some young guys with such bad luck will learn to deal with their cards, humble up and enjoy the health they have left, others will choose to express what's rest of their masculinity by going out through a violent suicide.

I would think that the masculinity of an old man is expressed through wisdom, calm and the ability to transmit their knowledge on to future generations. They won't be able to intimidate a young man with their physical look but they can humble a young man with their acute understanding of life and look right through him if they like. Everyone gets to be young but not everyone can make it to old age. An old guy has 'gone places' mentally and some knowledge can only be accessed through experience. Old people possess some of this knowledge by definition.

[rudebwoy]

What do you consider old?

My Great Uncle died in his 80s and left a teenage son.

Yet I know guys in their late 20s, who needed help knocking up their wives.

As Vinman said, older men don't give a crap about what people say about them.

[Gambler]

I don't think old age emasculates men. In fact I believe it's quite the opposite. As men age, through various experiences they often acquire a more realistic worldview.
Of course there are still some exceptions who behave like little kids at 70.

[EDantes]

Well natural testosterone drops with older age, but if a man stays fit and eats right then there's really no excuse, problem is a lot of men, especially the simps who get sucker into a marriage with a fat cow just stop caring, they lose all their male friends after marriage, and spend all of their time either at work being nagged by their boss, or at home being nagged by their domineering wife, and just end up throwing away their health and their life in favor of binge watching TV on their few days off.

But here natural bodybuilder JackLaLanne when he was 95, fitter in his ripe old years than most liberal hipster college kids today are even in their prime:

[BrewDog]

(12-19-2016 02:59 PM)PolymathGuru Wrote:  

I was wondering if the old sweet man stereotype is a by product of men becoming emasculated due to old age?

I often see this in my conversations with elderly men.

-Their ability to ramble about absolutely nothing(like a woman)
-Sweet demeanor(like a woman)
-Always looking for attention(like a woman)
-Always bothering you about stupid shit(like a woman)

I'm not here to bash the elderly. I wanted to know if anyone else has seen observations that contradict mine and what they do to hold onto their masculinity in old age.

I'm not elderly, but I feel like I'm old enough to comment.

-Their ability to ramble about absolutely nothing
How old are we talking? If they have dementia then perhaps they ramble. Otherwise, old men have the best stories. They've experienced life and have actual interesting stories to offer.

-Sweet demeanor
There's a reason for the stereotype of angry old man. I don't know that men get nicer as they age unless they're your grandaddy. If anything, I think men tend to become more jaded and grumpy as they get older.

-Always looking for attention
This one baffles me. I've never seen an attention seeking old man unless he was super old and lived alone or in a nursing home. Usually they just want you to get off their lawn and leave them the fuck alone.

-Always bothering you about stupid shit
Are we talking about your old uncle or some shit? Because I can't imagine any old guy calling you up on a daily basis to ask you for anything. Unless you sell heartburn pills or Viagra, I can't figure why old men would bother you.

[Sherman]

The old men you meet today would probably be baby boomers or ex hippies, so not the best example. Traditional men were softer in one respect. A man would be a hard disciplinarian with his children, but then would just play with his grandchildren, feeling he had earned the right.

[iknowexactly]

Time doesn't just emasculate you, it disappears you completely and forever. Unless you're some towering genius like Beethoven, or have kids.

But even if you have kids, do you have any image or knowledge of, say, your great-great-great grandparents?

I guess if your family keeps records, you could form some image, maybe even a feeling of kinship with a distant ancestor.

I've heard characteristics sometimes generation-skip, so maybe there'sbe a great-great grandfather that was like you.

To me this isn't defeatist, it's just facing the fact everything changes.

[Sombro]

[roberto]

Dick Van Dyke is looking bloody good for 90. Says he just keeps moving and hitting the gym.

[Nater]

We might as well have called this thread “what is masculinity for you?”. From the answers, you can see which main attribute / quality each person attach to masculinity, hence the contrast in the answers. High level of T, knocking up chicks, Don’t Give a Fuck Attitude…
For me, it’s the “DGAF” attitude that stands out and older men tend to have more this kind of mindset, thus more masculine in general. Another thing to note is that the perception of masculinity varies from a culture to another, from a generation to another… For instance where I come from men who dance are perceived as emasculate. In South America, Dancing is just part of being a man. Also, you mentioned rambling as a feminine trait. The chief of this tribe begs to differ.

   



For the attention, I experienced the same thing and I think it’s mainly due to loneliness.

[Matsufubu]

I think that as you age you naturally lose what you had in your prime: strength, speed, looks. You therefore have to change the way you interact with the world. I don't think it's a weakness, just playing the cards you're dealt. Doesn't mean that you've given up, although obviously some men who were weak in their prime just get worse. I accept that I will gradually lose the gifts of youth, but what really scares me is shit like dementia, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, etc. You can have the body of Adonis, but if your brain goes you're done, no matter how badass you were.

Just when I thought I was a Real Man ™ compared to men nowadays, I watched that Jack LeLanne video and realised that I'm a fucking pussy compared to him. Time to sharpen up, Matsufubu.

[Hoser]

Learned in a Gerontology class that those who stay mentally active into old age live just as long as those who stay physically active into old age: on average both live until 78, compared to the less-active cohort's average of 71.

I'm thinking: walk a lot, read a lot, never fully retire. Remind you of any wily old coots you know?

[Matsufubu]

^^^

Very much so. It's like your body just decides "Oh, not using this any more? Off you go!" The ones who stay sharp even in old age are the ones who don't seem to retire fully and always have something on the go. The ones who are decrepit at 70 were low energy anyway.

[Hoser]

Low energy. Haha, what a great quote only days away from the inauguration. :-D

[MOVSM]

Going by testosterone levels, yes, you will become less male as you age.




This is not to say that you have no control over it--physical exercise, good diet, and active mind will keep you sane and mentally agile well into your old age and death.

[TheBoom]

There is no one easy answer in this. People want a safety blanket. If only they pray to the right God they will be safeguarded. If they eat the right tomato they will live to 100. Do the perfect exercise and they will never get frail. Problem is shit happens and genetics play a key role.

That said, people can increase the odds they will have a vibrant, healthy old age by years of working to keep themselves mentally, physically and emotionally fit.

I'm 63 and have never been happier. I have found lifting, learning new things and getting out of routines helps a lot. But part of the added fun is the realization that it won't go on forever.

"I will never be an old man. To me, old age is always 15 years older than I am." -- Francis Bacon

[Hoser]

Mr. TheBoom: thanks for this. Also, Mr. Roosh: thanks for creating the forum in which we can express this.