[oldnemesis]

In the manosphere the attractiveness of females is typically measured at the scale ranged from 1 (the worst) to 10 (the best). The scale is universal and used through the world, I can testify first-hand that locals use this scale in most Eastern European countries, and typically our evaluation for a girl matches within two points, which is acceptable. The deviation is usually caused by personal preferences like "prefer big/small boobs", "prefer blondes/brunettes" and so on.

There are several scale descriptions; personally I suggest using the one published by Solomon II in his blog which I'm reproducing below in bold with my remarks.

10: Extremely rare, almost flawless. Super models, centerfolds, and movie stars must strive to achieve this rating.

I would put extra emphasis on strive here. It is the value of absolute perfection. Very few movie stars could be considered 10, and even those are typically only considered 10 on the screen. Most men will never meet one in real life. I haven't.

9: In a large group of women, she’s almost always best in show. Includes: Models, Actresses, Pop stars and girls toted as the “Hottest girl in…”

Again, the key is "large group". Not Miss Universe, but definitely not "the hottest chick in that dive bar" either. I'd say if you meet a 9 in real life more often than once in a month, and you're not in a model or show business, you probably should raise your standards. I've met probably five or so in my whole life.

8: Extremely attractive. If you’re with an 8, you have serious bragging rights.

Serious bragging rights not within your friends circle (this is usually fairly low standard), but within the general public. This is kind of girl everyone turns their head on, and asks whether the dude with her is a millionaire, a rock star or what?

7: Very attractive. These are the girls most men would consider “hot”. She’s not always the hottest in the room, but no man in his right mind would turn her down, and any man would be proud to be seen with her.

I'd say this is the top of what an average dude could expect to meet (not necessary get laid with) in the USA. Applying the "two points difference" rule this actually makes sense

6: Attractive. Slightly above average. She’s cute, and you wouldn’t mind being seen with her in public in an LTR.

TIf 7 is "hot", 6 is "cute". You'd game her, but you won't kick yourself in a stomach if you lose her.

5: Can be slightly attractive or slightly unattractive depending on the day and what she’s wearing. Looks alone won’t get her far, but at least she’s not overweight.

This is the base level the most females start with, and then progress up or down. This is basically "ok"

4: Still fuckable. Too ugly for any kind of relationship, only good for pump-and-dump. One can still fuck her if drunk or going through a dry spell, and feel good about himself.

This is where most American chicks are.

3: Ugly. Barely fuckable even if you’re drunk or going through a dry spell. You’d never be seen with her in public, and if you fuck one, you'll feel sorry the next day and hope nobody ever finds out.

This is where most overweight (but not obese) chicks are. She may upgrade herself to almost 4 if she buys guys drinks, games them, then puts out and leaves.

2: Induces a gag reflex. There’s no amount of alcohol in the world that could make her look good.

This is where obese chicks are. You don't want to even sit near the one. Even desperate ugly fat dudes ignore them.

1: Half human half beast.

Pretty rare. Typically it is 2 which get drunk and dresses up like shit. Here's the idea:


PS. If you guys think it is useful, make it sticky.

[Wizard]

First... Jesus Christ those are some scary looking chicks... shudder.

Second, I have to agree that this is a pretty good rating system and I appreciate the latiude provided for personal preference. It does seem like for some guys it might be harder to really decide what qualifies for the 6-8 area. I mean if you've never really been with someone whose hot, you might lower your standards if your desperate to get some pussy.

Then again if your game is tight, your standards might be a fuck lot higher. I guess it's shaped a lot by your own personal experinces.

[Samseau]

6-8 comes down to personal preference for most men, for sure. But your standards for judging mostly rely upon how other's perceive them.

Therefore, you could say,

A 10 is top .01% of attractiveness for women,

A 9 is top 1%,

An 8 is top 4-5%,

A 7 is top 8%,

A 6 is top 15%

A 5 is top 35%

A 4 is top 70%,


etc. You should post your own percentages OldNem, just to give a clearer picture of what your standards look like.

[swisschalet]

(08-15-2011 03:50 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  



PS. If you guys think it is useful, make it sticky.

I hope nobody here would be able to make this sticky

[Tuthmosis]

My scale is a little different, but similar. In brief:

10: Perfection. A goddess floating through the world. Extremely rare. I've seen, in person, maybe two or three of them in the past five to seven years. One was in Israel, the other was at fit-model convention in Los Angeles, I almost got into a car accident trying to see the third one.

9: Extremely hot. Your day-to-day hot girl with nothing obviously wrong with her.

8: Extremely cute to certifiably hot.

7: Cute.

6: Almost Cute.

5: Fuckable. Slightly embarrassing to be seen with, but not humiliating.

4: Almost-to-barely fuckable. You'd hit it in a serious pinch, but it'd be seriously embarrassing to be seen with her in a way that implied you're hitting it.

3: Straight-up unattractive.

2: Fugly.

1: Repulsive/Sub-Human.

0: Cock.

[Tuthmosis]

And, does that dumb bitch on the left realize what she's unwittingly evoking?

      

[Dash Global]

Dont get any more accurate than this http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-2785.html

[Excelsior]

(08-15-2011 03:50 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

10: Extremely rare, almost flawless. Super models, centerfolds, and movie stars must strive to achieve this rating.

I would put extra emphasis on strive here. It is the value of absolute perfection. Very few movie stars could be considered 10, and even those are typically only considered 10 on the screen. Most men will never meet one in real life. I haven't.

Most men will never meet one because they are nonexistent.

I keep saying this, but I'll say it here again: there are no true 10s. Not the top 1% of women. Not the top .01% of women, and not actresses or models-zero. Women strive to become 10s and some get very close with the aid of photoshop and other camera tricks, but in real life there is no woman who has transcended the scope of human nature (we are, as humans, inherently imperfect) and become absolutely, positively flawless in any way. Not one.

To assume that any single woman has is to engage in dangerous pedestalization of a being who, by her very nature, is flawed like the rest of us, even if it is in just some small way.

Once guys figure this out and are able to acknowledge that even "The Hard 10" they see is imperfect and human(just like them!), we'll be getting somewhere.

There will even be a bonus in it for them-the more you treat a 10 naturally(read: like the ordinary, imperfect human she is and not some sort of mythical Aphrodite you've never seen before), the more likely you are to succeed with her romantically(if you are so inclined). Even the "Hard 10s" themselves can respect their own imperfection and men who act accordingly. They don't think they're completely flawless-why should you?

Until then, guys will remain in la-la land placing women on astronomical pedestals (almost equivalent to assigned divinity) where they do not belong.

Those girls I put up in that other thread are 9's and 9.5s, not 10s.

[_DC_]

(08-15-2011 03:44 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 03:50 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

10: Extremely rare, almost flawless. Super models, centerfolds, and movie stars must strive to achieve this rating.

I would put extra emphasis on strive here. It is the value of absolute perfection. Very few movie stars could be considered 10, and even those are typically only considered 10 on the screen. Most men will never meet one in real life. I haven't.

Most men will never meet one because they are nonexistent.

I keep saying this, but I'll say it here again: there are no true 10s. Not the top 1% of women. Not the top .01% of women, and not actresses or models-zero. Women strive to become 10s and some get very close with the aid of photoshop and other camera tricks, but in real life there is no woman who has transcended the scope of human nature (we are, as humans, inherently imperfect) and become absolutely, positively flawless in any way. Not one.

To assume that any single woman has is to engage in dangerous pedestalization of a being who, by her very nature, is flawed like the rest of us, even if it is in just some small way.

Once guys figure this out and are able to acknowledge that even "The Hard 10" they see is imperfect and human(just like them!), we'll be getting somewhere.

There will even be a bonus in it for them-the more you treat a 10 naturally(read: like the ordinary, imperfect human she is and not some sort of mythical Aphrodite you've never seen before), the more likely you are to succeed with her romantically(if you are so inclined). Even the "Hard 10s" themselves can respect their own imperfection and men who act accordingly. They don't think they're completely flawless-why should you?

Until then, guys will remain in la-la land placing women on astronomical pedestals (almost equivalent to assigned divinity) where they do not belong.

Those girls I put up in that other thread are 9's and 9.5s, not 10s.

I agree, for the math nerds out there, a 10 is definitely more of an asymptote than a real number. Its polar opposite, a 0, is probably similar. Although a 0 might by horrendously disgusting, and nobody on this forum would even think about it, "it" still has a vagina (albeit hidden by obesity) and by definition is "fuckable", at least to some sorry virgin sap somewhere in the world.

I think two main things make a 1-10 scale impossible to standardize in some way. The first reason: people have certain traits that turn them on. For me there is nothing hotter than a skinny girl with shiny black hair. If a dude is into blonde with more weight, our numbers are going to be quite different. Its the same reason I can agree that a certain country song or rap is "quality" within its genre, but I'll take some good old rock any day over it. The second reason: I have known plenty of dudes to jump at the chance to get laid, even if the girl was disgusting. There are a wide variety in standards. IMO, the difference between a dude who has railed 200 girls in his life vs. a guy who has railed 40 might simply be because the second guy has higher standards. (I don't disbelieve that a real stud could fuck 200 quality girls however, its just rare).

[Dash Global]

@Athlone

What they think is irrelevant to what they actually are & look like.

The scale is solely physical. There is certainly PERFECT women out there physically speaking. They are very RARE. But they do exist.

The Perfect 10 or Dime Piece

Model Face
Large Great Looking Tits
Great Ass
Perfectly Sculpted Pussy
Completely Proportioned Body

Those are unanimous basic qualifications for being a TRUE 10.

Now I do agree that we shouldnt put girls on a pedestal.

Treat the dime piece like you would any other chick. She might dismiss you but hey, there is plenty of fish in the sea.

No one ever said you actually have to tell the chick that she is a 10.....

@ DC

You are confusing preference with the facts. Traits that turn them on are "preferences". There is no set DIME piece. You can have a plump curvy HB8-HB9 like Kim Kardashian and you can have a more fit slimmer HB8-HB9 like Jessica Alba. Two completely diff looking females but both are HB8's.

Just because some dude thinks fat chicks are hot doesnt make them hot. They are not hot! He is just delusional and not in touch with reality. He just needs to say I find fat ugly bitches hot! lol

There is a UNIVERSAL BEAUTY SCALE contrary to what people believe

[Excelsior]

(08-15-2011 04:00 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

@Athlone

What they think is irrelevant to what they actually are & look like.

So your personal perception of them is consequential, but not their own.

Why is that?

Quote:

You are confusing preference with the facts. Traits that turn them on are "preferences". There is no set DIME piece. You can have a plump curvy HB8-HB9 like Kim Kardashian and you can have a more fit slimmer HB8-HB9 like Jessica Alba. Two completely diff looking females but both are HB8's.

You are creating a false dichotomy. The preferences and "facts" are not mutually exclusive-subjectivity plays a major role in judging female beauty.

Both women in your example are not necessarily HB8s. One man might consider Jessica Alba to be the real ideal, "perfect" in every way-in other words, his 10. He might look at Kim Kardashian and agree that her body is banging but call her an 8 or 9 because, while he likes big booties, he prefers slimmer body types(or maybe he likes taller women-Kim is only 5'2"). Still others will consider Kim-K's hips to be fat and out of proportion with her body-they might call her a 7. Others will call Jessica Alba too thin, with Kim-K's more voluptuous physique constituting their ideal-she is just a cute 7 to them. These guys are not going to give both girls the same exact rating because they are turned on by different things, and the woman who turns them on the most gets the bigger number.

These little preferences can be the difference between a 9 and a 10 for a guy. When you favor certain physical features or weigh certain ones more heavily than others (ex: prefer banging body more than a pretty face), it will show in your ratings. If a girl lacks these features you prefer, then you are not going to give her the same rating. You may agree that she is still hot, but your perfect woman, naturally, would possess the features you prefer.

This is where the subjectivity comes from. If you weigh a voluptuous body over a pretty face, you may consider a woman with a mediocre face and a good waist-to-hip ratio(big butt, tiny waist) a 10. If I favor facial appearance, then that woman could never be flawless in my eyes. Hot, maybe, but not perfect.

Quote:

The scale is solely physical. There is certainly PERFECT women out there physically speaking. They are very RARE. But they do exist.

A woman with a) no physical flaws at all and b) whose physical features cannot be bettered in anyway (read: men all agree that there is no woman anywhere else who does said feature better than her).

That is perfection. If anywhere there are a significant(read: not just one or two, but many) number of men who a) believe one or more of her physical features are bettered by another woman or b) believe that she is not flawless in every way(rate her anything less than a 10), she is not perfect.

Quote:

The Perfect 10 or Dime Piece

Model Face
Large Great Looking Tits
Great Ass
Perfectly Sculpted Pussy
Completely Proportioned Body

Those are unanimous basic qualifications for being a TRUE 10.

This is absurd. Here you imply unanimity, and then present a list of highly subjective qualifications.

1. What is a great ass? Do you prefer posterior depth or width? Petite and juicy like a small apple, or larger and in your face like a big peach? Do you want cheeks big enough to make it clap, or would you like them smaller, but firm and still round?

Men may look at a number of women(each possessing the respective qualities I posted above) and agree that they are all hot (8's or 9's), but which ones they consider flawless and absolutely perfect will vary based on preference. One guy may like Ms. Petite Apple Bottom and consider her a 9, but his preference may be for the bigger booty that can clap, which is his 10. Another guy may reverse this, and still another guy might look at the bigger booty(the one that claps with large cheeks) and say that it isn't a great ass at all, and that girl is fat.

Which one is the "True 10"? Who is PERFECT?

And what about men who don't care about posterior size or depth at all? Their "10" might have a very average butt, a complete afterthought in their minds. Who is right?

2. What is a model face? There are a lot of models with a lot of different faces. That alone indicates a high degree of subjectivity here-some men prefer one model face over another, which is why so many women with different faces can become successful models. Some men may consider a "model" just "cute" because of her face-others consider her a 10 and love her face. Who is right?

Again, we may all generally agree on what is a "pretty" or "beautiful" face. But we may not all agree on what is an absolutely perfect face.
How can a woman be considered a "True 10"(read: absolutely flawless) when there is no unanimity on her face being absolutely perfect? If there are many men who believe that there is another woman somewhere with a hotter face, then she is not perfection.

And we still haven't accounted for men who don't weight facial appearance heavily in judging their "True 10s". Guys like that are pretty common.

3. Perfectly sculpted pussy? What is a perfect pussy? Your perfect pussy might just be my very nice pussy. My perfect pussy might be your average pussy.
I see no evidence of a unanimous standard for pussy perfection amongst men. Some men like them shaven. Some men idealize the landing strip. Still others like it a little hairy. Some like cameltoes. Others like larger lips. Other can't stand large lips or hair at all.

Who is right, and which is "perfect"? We can all agree on which pussies are generally "hot", but which one makes "The Dime Piece"?

4. "Large Great Looking Tits"? By adding the term "large", you've already created subjectivity. Some men prefer smaller boobs. They might prefer a C-Cup over a D-Cup, or a larger B over a big C. Who is right?

"Great Looking"? I might think one girls C's look great, and another girl's D's are disproportionate with her frame, even though they are still hot. Another guy might switch it around and prefer the D's over the C's.
Who is right? We both agree that both girls have hot boobs, but which one is perfect?

5. Completely proportioned body? More subjectivity.

If my idea of a perfect, flawless ass includes wider hips and more posterior depth, and you consider a flawless ass to be more petite but still firm and round, we may both consider each other's preference to be slightly less than ideally proportioned or, in a less friendly scenario, we may each think that the other is ridiculous("Your girl has pudgy hips", "Your girl is too thin").

If I prefer D's and you prefer C's or larger B's, perhaps you may look at my ideal woman and her D-cups and contend that her body is a little out of proportion.

Who is right? Which one is perfect?

Again, we all agree on what is generally hot, but which one is perfect?

6. Your "Unanimous Basic Qualifications" are far from exhaustive.

A. Hair color. I prefer blondes, you prefer brunettes. That other guy's perfect woman is a redhead, and still another prefers black hair combined with light eyes on a European girl as his perfect ideal.

The guy who prefers the Blondes might agree that another guy's redheaded perfect woman is really hot, but less ideal than his blue-eyed blonde. Still another dude might prefer thicker, tan latinas with black hair and brown eyes as his ideal, and could look upon both of the others as "hot, but not the best".

Who is right?

B. Eye color. I like light brown eyes, you like blue. That other guy likes green eyes on his ideal woman. Who is "perfect"? Plenty of men will give a woman with striking blue eyes a higher rating than a girl with darker features, and vice versa.

C. Height. I can say I personally prefer shorter women over the standard 5'10"+ model that many others guys prefer over shorter girls. I still consider those taller women to be very hot(plenty of them in the 10's thread), but my perfect woman is several inches shorter. I will rate that shorter girl higher than the taller, lankier model, while another guy could reverse this. Which one of us has found the "true 10"?

D. Skin tone-caramel, cream, or tan? Maybe you really like black girls? Maybe black girls turn you off, or maybe very creamy skin turns you off.

I could go on.

Quote:

No one ever said you actually have to tell the chick that she is a 10.....

You are thinking it, which is enough.

Quote:

There is a UNIVERSAL BEAUTY SCALE contrary to what people believe

There is a general, global objective standard of what is beautiful and attractive, but this does not mean that there is not a large degree of subjectivity involved.

Roissy has already proven my point several times over with his polls on female beauty (here is the initial poll and here are the results).

He established clearly that there is an objective standard of beauty and in things we consider attractive in women (all of the women in the polls were generally agreed to be hot), but he also showed that unanimity (which is required to declare absolute perfection/flawlessness) does not exist. The best woman by vote only got a plurality of "10" ratings (meaning that a majority of men who voted considered her less than ideal), and this is not accounting for the demographics of the voters which could influence their preferences (he posits that 80% of the voters were white, and whites favor facial beauty more than others on average).

Bottomline: There is no universally flawless woman and thus no "True 10".

[iknowexactly]

I recall reading somewhere judgment of beauty between viewers has only a .5 correlation. There are DEFINITELY HUGE variations among what people like.

One idea I have is we prefer what might make up for our own shortcomings. I am slightly knock-kneed, and I absolutely love women with long, slightly bowed legs.

[Jason Zee]

^^^Athalone, perfect post you broke everything down perfectly. I can’t agree with your post more.

[oldnemesis]

(08-15-2011 09:04 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

6-8 comes down to personal preference for most men, for sure. But your standards for judging mostly rely upon how other's perceive them.

Well, 8 cannot be just a personal preference. 4-7 could though.

Quote:

A 10 is top .01% of attractiveness for women,
A 9 is top 1%,
An 8 is top 4-5%,
A 7 is top 8%,
A 6 is top 15%
A 5 is top 35%
A 4 is top 70%,

Those are not realistic numbers. As any other characteristics, attractiveness is spread following the bell curve, so the difference should be significantly larger.

I'd have it different:

10 is a top 0.0000001%
9 is a top 0.05%
8 is top 2%
7 is top 10%
6 is top 30%
5 is top 63%
4 is top 96%
3 is bottom 4%
2 is bottom 0.5%
1 is bottom 0.001%

Of course, this curve applies to the whole Earth population, and may be very different in some places considering the picture above, Anglo countries being more skewed toward the bottom, and EE/Russia being more skewed toward the top.

[VeryNewtotheGame]

(08-15-2011 04:00 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

@Athlone

What they think is irrelevant to what they actually are & look like.

The scale is solely physical. There is certainly PERFECT women out there physically speaking. They are very RARE. But they do exist.

The Perfect 10 or Dime Piece

Model Face
Large Great Looking Tits
Great Ass
Perfectly Sculpted Pussy
Completely Proportioned Body

Those are unanimous basic qualifications for being a TRUE 10.

Now I do agree that we shouldnt put girls on a pedestal.

Treat the dime piece like you would any other chick. She might dismiss you but hey, there is plenty of fish in the sea.

No one ever said you actually have to tell the chick that she is a 10.....

@ DC

You are confusing preference with the facts. Traits that turn them on are "preferences". There is no set DIME piece. You can have a plump curvy HB8-HB9 like Kim Kardashian and you can have a more fit slimmer HB8-HB9 like Jessica Alba. Two completely diff looking females but both are HB8's.

Just because some dude thinks fat chicks are hot doesnt make them hot. They are not hot! He is just delusional and not in touch with reality. He just needs to say I find fat ugly bitches hot! lol

There is a UNIVERSAL BEAUTY SCALE contrary to what people believe

Dude, I'm sorry but you're only using physical characteristics to determine a 10? So if this girl was unable to speak or dumb as a rock and mentally retarded or a druggie, she would still be a 10? I dont think so.

[Moma]

(08-15-2011 10:19 PM)VeryNewtotheGame Wrote:  

Dude, I'm sorry but you're only using physical characteristics to determine a 10? So if this girl was unable to speak or dumb as a rock and mentally retarded or a druggie, she would still be a 10? I dont think so.

Of course she would be! Do men give a shyt about how intelligent a lizard is in deciding who to nutt in? Fcuk no!!
We are talking about women who stimulate our loins, not those who are going to help us pass our SAT exam!!

Intellect has ZERO to do with the attraction factor!

[Samseau]

(08-15-2011 10:13 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(08-15-2011 09:04 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

6-8 comes down to personal preference for most men, for sure. But your standards for judging mostly rely upon how other's perceive them.

Well, 8 cannot be just a personal preference. 4-7 could though.

Quote:

A 10 is top .01% of attractiveness for women,
A 9 is top 1%,
An 8 is top 4-5%,
A 7 is top 8%,
A 6 is top 15%
A 5 is top 35%
A 4 is top 70%,

Those are not realistic numbers. As any other characteristics, attractiveness is spread following the bell curve, so the difference should be significantly larger.

I'd have it different:

10 is a top 0.0000001%
9 is a top 0.05%
8 is top 2%
7 is top 10%
6 is top 30%
5 is top 63%
4 is top 96%
3 is bottom 4%
2 is bottom 0.5%
1 is bottom 0.001%

Of course, this curve applies to the whole Earth population, and may be very different in some places considering the picture above, Anglo countries being more skewed toward the bottom, and EE/Russia being more skewed toward the top.

Yes, your numbers are much better. I was just giving mine as an example.

[Tuthmosis]

(08-15-2011 10:47 PM)Moma Wrote:  

Of course she would be! Do men give a shyt about how intelligent a lizard is in deciding who to nutt in? Fcuk no!!
We are talking about women who stimulate our loins, not those who are going to help us pass our SAT exam!!

Intellect has ZERO to do with the attraction factor!

I don't know about you, but I ask every girl for a copy of her transcripts before deciding whether to get a boner or not. And with today's grade inflation, her shit better be at 3.59 or higher.

Joking aside, I think the 1-10 scale measures physical beauty. If a girl speaks five languages, is charming, feminine, cooks like a champ, plays you sweet flute music to lull you to sleep after swallowing your load, those are all pluses, but they don't factor into the 1-to-10. They're add-ons.

[Tuthmosis]

As for the "does a 10 really exist?" debate: this is a question that will never really be settled. The guys who believe they do exist and the ones who think it's "asymptotic" (9.999999999 is the best) are never going to see eye to eye. It's like Palestinians and Jews.

I'm not one to throw around 10s like nothing. I've never seen, nor will ever see a perfect woman (indeed person). To me a 10 is simply the hottest a woman can get. To reach a 10 is just the top, which very few achieve. It's like getting a 10 in Olympic gymnastics. It was technically "perfect" it was just fucking bad-ass. I see a girl once every many years and think, "I'm not sure she can get hotter." You gotta give credit where it's due. I'm not worshiping or pedestalizing, just calling balls and strikes.

Are 10s perfect? Fuck no. Is there a hotter girl within a 5-mile radius? Also no. That's a 10, that's a 9.99999. Whatever.

@Athlone: So those girls you dump into the "What do you consider a 10?" thread are what (numerically) to you? Serious question.

[Excelsior]

(08-15-2011 11:12 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

@Athlone: So those girls you dump into the "What do you consider a 10?" thread are what (numerically) to you? Serious question.

(08-15-2011 03:44 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

Those girls I put up in that other thread are 9's and 9.5s, not 10s.

Highest rating I've ever given out is a 9.75, to girls like this.

So you can say the girls I put in that thread are usually my personal 9s-9.75s. I put some of my personal 8s-8.5s in there as well because I realize that my 8 is often another man's 9 or "True 10" (a realization that has been substantiated by the popular reception of the thread, which I think has been good). A lot of women that I'd subjectively label 8's or 8.5s on my personal scale (ex: Giselle Bundchen, Jessica Biel, Kate Beckinsale, Selena Gomez, etc.) are considered significantly more beautiful by other guys, so I try to recognize that.

[Dash Global]

@Athlone

I was gonna go through and address all your comments but half way through I noticed that alot of what you say goes back to this simple fact

Most men simply can not take bias out of the equation when rating women.

Men have to understand that there is different types of beautify women, different types of slamming bodies, ect. The key in being able to rate women CORRECTLY is being able to identify different types of hottness while putting aside your own personal preference. Here is an example.

ESTI GINZBURG



IRINA SHAYK



Both these women are HB9's atleast facially speaking. I prefer women of dark hair (latinas, middle eastern, ect) But that doesnt mean I am gonna rank Irina Shayk higher than the blonde Esti Ginzburg.

Im gonna go ahead and break down what constitutes a perfect 10 in detail.

The Perfect 10 or Dime Piece

Model Face

Just because a girl is a "model" doesnt necessarily mean she has a model face. You dont know what a model face is brah? Go examine the two women in the pictures closely. That is what model faces look like. Generally speaking any face that is 8+ would be considered a model face.

Great Looking Tits

I should not have used the word large. Generally speaking every man will agree with these two points.

Atleast a HANDFUL of tits are requited.
Perky breast that sit up and are not to far apart

Those two things constitute a "nice rack"

Great Ass

There is a number of different "great asses". You have the plump asses that move and clap. Then you have the firm more tight asses. There is a level where an ass is no longer plump and curvy, at which point it is just straight FAT, and not fat in a good way. Someone with a good grasp on universal beauty will be able to discern the two.

Perfectly Sculpted Pussy

A perfect of great looking pussy is one that doesnt have any lips or flaps hanging down. Also a great looking pussy doesnt have a clit that looks like a miniature penis. Go watch the Kim Kardashian sextape. She has a great looking pussy.

Completely Proportioned Body

This is self explanatory.

As you can see there is room for variance in that list.

It all comes down to recognizing beauty in many forms at the same time putting preference aside. This isnt easy.

Most men know what slamming tits and ass are. Most men know what a model face looks like. Most men know what a nice looking pussy looks like. Most men know what a proportional body looks like. If a women has all those characteristics than she is a 10. Plain and Simple.

[Vicious]

In my mind, the 1-10 ranking is the least productive aid in Game as well as the largest time sink at beginner/intermediate "level". I've lost count of the number of threads on the forum where some act has a great report with pic attached only for the discussion to solely hover around whether she's a10/9/8.5/7.75 etc

[Excelsior]

(08-16-2011 12:09 AM)Dash Global Wrote:  

@Athlone

I was gonna go through and address all your comments but half way through I noticed that alot of what you say goes back to this simple fact

Most men simply can not take bias out of the equation when rating women.

This is impossible to do because subjectivity is inherent to the evaluation of female beauty and what constitutes perfection.

There simply is no plausible, 100%(that is not mostly, or partially, but ENTIRELY) objective standard for female physical perfection.

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Both these women are HB9's atleast facially speaking. I prefer women of dark hair (latinas, middle eastern, ect) But that doesnt mean I am gonna rank Irina Shayk higher than the blonde Esti Ginzburg.

A lot of men will, which is my point. Most men will agree that both are hot(8 or 9), but that is where the objective standard ends.

Which one is hotter or closer to perfect is up for subjective discussion and the answer will vary by guy. At this point, there is no "correct" judgment or method with which to eliminate "bias"-subjectivity is simply inherent at this point, and there is no hard universal standard to prevent it.

Without such a standard, one cannot ascertain perfection beyond the scope of his own subjective standards.

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The Perfect 10 or Dime Piece

Model Face

Just because a girl is a "model" doesnt necessarily mean she has a model face. You dont know what a model face is brah? Go examine the two women in the pictures closely. That is what model faces look like.

I see some pretty different faces just analyzing popular supermodels, and they don't all look exactly like those two. I also prefer some over others.
Subjectivity is inherent here, so how are we going to ascertain perfection(read: A True 10)?

I like Miranda Kerr's face better than I like Esti Ginzburg's face. Both are model faces, but one is more appealing to me. Others may disagree with me. Such disagreement precludes any notion of universal perfection-we may all agree that both women have model faces, but beyond this point we dive into the realm of subjectivity.

If you're going to make claims of absolute physical flawlessness on a set universal standard, you can't have that subjectivity.

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Generally speaking any face that is 8+ would be considered a model face.

And there is your problem-"8+" means different things to different men. What you consider an "8" face could easily be labelled a 7 or a 9 by another guy. All may agree that it is attractive, but subjectivity is still inherent.

It also isn't perfection-a perfect girl(read: "True 10") would need a perfect face, not just an "8+" face. If there are women out there with superior faces(9+ or 10), then she is not perfect.

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Great Looking Tits

I should not have used the word large. Generally speaking every man will agree with these two points.

Atleast a HANDFUL of tits are requited.
Perky breast that sit up and are not to far apart

Those two things constitute a "nice rack"

Most men will agree with those two points as a standard for what constitutes a "nice rack", but we're trying to establish your "True Dime Piece" here. We need not ask about merely "nice" racks-a "True 10" has a perfect rack.

What is a perfect rack? Well, we need tits big enough to constitute a handful, but how big? Is just a handful perfect? Or do we want bigger D-Cups? Or middling C-Cups?
And what about areolae? Bigger or smaller?

Men will disagree on these things, which is my point-subjectivity is inherent. You cannot eliminate it, which means that you cannot ascertain true physical "perfection".

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Great Ass

There is a number of different "great asses". You have the plump asses that move and clap. Then you have the firm more tight asses. There is a level where an ass is no longer plump and curvy, at which point it is just straight FAT, and not fat in a good way. Someone with a good grasp on universal beauty will be able to discern the two.

Some men consider this very popular video vixen's ass ideal, and others swear up and down that she is just fat.

Some other men who do not favor her may think that she isn't quite fat, but is still far from ideal.

In all cases, subjectivity is inherent. We can all agree that she isn't really a plumper(W-H Ratio is too good), but beyond that there is no hard standard.

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Perfectly Sculpted Pussy

A perfect of great looking pussy is one that doesnt have any lips or flaps hanging down. Also a great looking pussy doesnt have a clit that looks like a miniature penis. Go watch the Kim Kardashian sextape. She has a great looking pussy.

This is all pure conjecture, as it affirms your own personal beliefs and little else. When it comes to establishing what constitutes a "perfect pussy", it is useless.

Once again, subjectivity is inherent.

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Completely Proportioned Body

This is self explanatory.

And subjective.

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As you can see there is room for variance in that list.

Which basically proves my point.

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It all comes down to recognizing beauty in many forms at the same time putting preference aside. This isnt easy.

No, it isn't easy-it is impossible. Once we attempt to go beyond the generally agreed standards of "great", "nice", "hot" or "cute", personal preference becomes central to determination, and subjectivity is inherent.

This makes it impossible to firmly ascertain universal female physical perfection.

The objectivity you are trying to promote("putting preferences aside") is simply impossible beyond a certain level. Biases cannot be placed to one side at this point because they are all that is left. We can all agree on what is hot/cute/attractive on a woman, but what is ideal comes down to individual preference.

Quote:

Most men know what slamming tits and ass are. Most men know what a model face looks like. Most men know what a nice looking pussy looks like. Most men know what a proportional body looks like. If a women has all those characteristics than she is a 10. Plain and Simple.

Human gender dynamics are never simple-we are an inherently complex species.

[Dash Global]

@Athlone

I will retract my ABSOLUTE claim, and try to put it as simple as I can.

There is general universal traits of beauty that is just known fact.

There is many different types of hottness. This doesnt mean you can claim and ugly bitch is hot just because your saying she turns you on for what ever odd reason. Well you can claim she is hot but people will dismiss you as an idiot.

I think our view on perfection is different. You are viewing it on a "per person basis aka preference"

When I use the term perfection it simply means she satisfies IN ONE WAY all of these characteristics.

1) Model Face
2) Nice Rack
3) Nice Ass
4) Nice Pussy
5) Proportional

And what I mean by "IN ONE WAY" is that she has the characteristics of atleast one of the generally agreed universal perceptions of each category above. Which explains why you can have different 10's

[Mighty Mouse]

There is a much bigger gap what different guys find attractive. For example, Kim Kardashian would be a 5 for me. I would approach her when I have my beer goggles on, but I would not like to be seen with her (or a clone of her) in public (due to her looks). This Sulieka girl Athlone has posted pictures of, is a 4 to me (=not fuckable). I also know my friends' tastes, and I assume nobody of them would like her (just concerning looks).

On the other hand, some of the women guys here in the forum post in the "What is a 5?"-thread are adorable 7s in my opinion.