[Merenguero]

(04-11-2017 12:32 AM)Kabal Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 07:16 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

Your story is such a great argument in favor of school vouchers. Reminds me of my own childhood. I started off in public school, but very quickly my parents realized it was a shithole and transferred me into a private school. The only reason I could even attend that private school was because my country has a school voucher system - approx. $10K per student who enrolls. It was a fantastic system. Shitty schools would inevitably close as students fleed, better schools stayed open. Free market at its finest. And the proof was in the pudding: my country consistently ranked at the top of the PISA rankings.

Ah, the U.S.

Indeed, once you adjust for race, US PISA scores are at the top or near the top. Asian Americans beat almost all Asian nations/locales, and White Americans beat the lion-share of European nations.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. People at the top of the totum pole in the United States, regardless of race, own the whole rest of the world in every single category. Average in the United States is really bad and the bottom of the barrel is god awful.

[Kabal]

(04-11-2017 12:46 AM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 12:32 AM)Kabal Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 07:16 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

Your story is such a great argument in favor of school vouchers. Reminds me of my own childhood. I started off in public school, but very quickly my parents realized it was a shithole and transferred me into a private school. The only reason I could even attend that private school was because my country has a school voucher system - approx. $10K per student who enrolls. It was a fantastic system. Shitty schools would inevitably close as students fleed, better schools stayed open. Free market at its finest. And the proof was in the pudding: my country consistently ranked at the top of the PISA rankings.

Ah, the U.S.

Indeed, once you adjust for race, US PISA scores are at the top or near the top. Asian Americans beat almost all Asian nations/locales, and White Americans beat the lion-share of European nations.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. People at the top of the totum pole in the United States, regardless of race, own the whole rest of the world in every single category. Average in the United States is really bad and the bottom of the barrel is god awful.

Indeed, the U.S.'s average is dragged down due to its... vibrancy.

The "top of the totem pole" of the U.S. in cognitive ability differs drastically from the U.S. overall in terms of racial composition--and likewise for the "bottom of the barrel"--but in different ways, to say the least.

[Merenguero]

(04-11-2017 01:04 AM)Kabal Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 12:46 AM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 12:32 AM)Kabal Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 07:16 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

Your story is such a great argument in favor of school vouchers. Reminds me of my own childhood. I started off in public school, but very quickly my parents realized it was a shithole and transferred me into a private school. The only reason I could even attend that private school was because my country has a school voucher system - approx. $10K per student who enrolls. It was a fantastic system. Shitty schools would inevitably close as students fleed, better schools stayed open. Free market at its finest. And the proof was in the pudding: my country consistently ranked at the top of the PISA rankings.

Ah, the U.S.

Indeed, once you adjust for race, US PISA scores are at the top or near the top. Asian Americans beat almost all Asian nations/locales, and White Americans beat the lion-share of European nations.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. People at the top of the totum pole in the United States, regardless of race, own the whole rest of the world in every single category. Average in the United States is really bad and the bottom of the barrel is god awful.

Indeed, the U.S.'s average is dragged down due to its... vibrancy.

The "top of the totem pole" of the U.S. in cognitive ability differs drastically from the U.S. overall in terms of racial composition--and likewise for the "bottom of the barrel"--but in different ways, to say the least.

There are still a lot of non-Asian minorities at the top. Cuban Americans kill it, have always killed it, and will continue to to so. Don't tell that to the guys who don't follow the Miami blueprint, get blanked in Miami, then come back saying that all Miami people are stupid. I would say don't go to LIV, or whatever the hell it's called, but I don't know how much good it will do.

[Genghis Khan]

(04-11-2017 12:32 AM)Kabal Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 07:16 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

Your story is such a great argument in favor of school vouchers. Reminds me of my own childhood. I started off in public school, but very quickly my parents realized it was a shithole and transferred me into a private school. The only reason I could even attend that private school was because my country has a school voucher system - approx. $10K per student who enrolls. It was a fantastic system. Shitty schools would inevitably close as students fleed, better schools stayed open. Free market at its finest. And the proof was in the pudding: my country consistently ranked at the top of the PISA rankings.

Ah, the U.S.

Indeed, once you adjust for race, US PISA scores are at the top or near the top. Asian Americans beat almost all Asian nations/locales, and White Americans beat the lion-share of European nations.

That's a really interesting point. I didn't know this. Hmm, maybe I shouldn't use PISA rankings then as an argument in favor of a school voucher system as race is such a strong predictor of scores.

But yeah, my parents wouldn't have been able to send me to a better school had it not been for a voucher system.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

(04-10-2017 07:16 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

Your story is such a great argument in favor of school vouchers.

My hesitation with vouchers is that schools that accept the vouchers will eventually have to do so on the government's terms. Much like what happened with higher education in the USA. With a few exceptions, universities, private or public are leftist cesspits that teach little and indoctrinate much.

50% of my property taxes go to the public schools. If I could deduct that amount and instead pay for a kid to attend private school (my kid, my tenant's kid, an extended relative's kid) that would work out much better. Less chance of the hand of government creeping in. This alone would give me $12,500 a year extra to send my kid to that school I mentioned.

I went to both public and private school. Public school though in a 90%+ white upper middle class / rich district wasn't that great. In fact, it was pretty bad. I don't want my kids to have the same experience I did from grades K thru 11 (went to private at the end of my schooling years).

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

(04-11-2017 05:59 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

That's a really interesting point. I didn't know this. Hmm, maybe I shouldn't use PISA rankings then as an argument in favor of a school voucher system as race is such a strong predictor of scores.

But yeah, my parents wouldn't have been able to send me to a better school had it not been for a voucher system.

Look at the charter school system in urban areas. You can pull them up from sites like greatschools.org and compare ethnic makeup with results on state exams (at least for NJ). This is what I have found:

Passing rates on the state exams are VERY closely related to the ethnic makeup of the school. White & Asian (Indian, Korean, Philippine, Chinese, etc.) = higher scores. Blacks & Hispanics** = lower scores.

**A lot of Spanish speaking people in my area classify themselves as 'white' because they are from South America and of a more European stock. Generally, they dislike the more Mestizo / native considering them a separate race all together. SJW heads often explode when confronted with this fact.

The charter schools that are say majority Black / Hispanic test slightly higher than the public schools that are majority Black / Hispanic. The biggest difference is IMHO, is the lack of violence in the charter schools when compared to the public schools.

We have one highly rates charter school. Last opening they had 1,000 applicants for about a dozen openings. Major reason sited when parents were interviewed: "public school too dangerous for their kid". Charters are more free to kick out incorrigible students.

The charter in question chose kids by lottery which I think is dumb. Schools teach to the lowest denominator, especially since schools are scored on graduation rates. There are exceptionally smart Black and Hispanic kids out there, but they get lost in their current crap schools catering to kids with a standard deviation lower or more on the IQ scale. The English schools used to do this: test and identify the smart kids (regardless of social background) and pull them into the college prep programs.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

(04-11-2017 05:59 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 12:32 AM)Kabal Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 07:16 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

Your story is such a great argument in favor of school vouchers. Reminds me of my own childhood. I started off in public school, but very quickly my parents realized it was a shithole and transferred me into a private school. The only reason I could even attend that private school was because my country has a school voucher system - approx. $10K per student who enrolls. It was a fantastic system. Shitty schools would inevitably close as students fleed, better schools stayed open. Free market at its finest. And the proof was in the pudding: my country consistently ranked at the top of the PISA rankings.

Ah, the U.S.

Indeed, once you adjust for race, US PISA scores are at the top or near the top. Asian Americans beat almost all Asian nations/locales, and White Americans beat the lion-share of European nations.

That's a really interesting point. I didn't know this. Hmm, maybe I shouldn't use PISA rankings then as an argument in favor of a school voucher system as race is such a strong predictor of scores.

But yeah, my parents wouldn't have been able to send me to a better school had it not been for a voucher system.

Steve Sailer breaks out the PISA scores:

[Lunostrelki]

My thinking is that having a lifestyle that is physically comfortable does produce the "beautiful ones" scenario seen in the mouse experiment. People who have their basic needs met at very little physical cost tend to live empty lives that they fill with entertainment to pretend they are happy. There's no incentive to do anything except put in the bare minimum of effort needed to keeping getting the paychecks that sustain their escapism.

Modern sex education means that for pretty much everyone who attended public school, children are one mental step away from the white goo left in a condom or a trip to the abortionist. Kids are seen as an optional byproduct of sex, that they can and ought to be prevented or aborted until everyone (at least all women) has had their fill of carnal pleasure. Equating the unborn with parasites leeching off of the female body has become a feature of everyday feminist discourse.

Until structural changes are made to the system the only way to be able to have lots of kids is find a willing wife and find a way to make money passively. I'm looking into alternative forms of income so my wife can homeschool our children when we have them. It also helps to get active about collaborating with friends and family so you have have people to build a small community around.

[rudebwoy]

Why no Indians on the PISA score?

More statistical drivel.

[weambulance]

Because India has never participated in PISA. They were supposed to participate in 2012 and 2015 and pulled out both times. It seems there's a "socio-cultural disconnect" that makes the test unfair for Indian students.

[britchard]

It would be interesting to see the ethnic break-down for other countries too. Even though the United Kingdom has a very similar culture, standard of living and education system to Ireland, it scores 9 points lower. Go figure why.

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

(04-11-2017 12:18 PM)britchard Wrote:  

It would be interesting to see the ethnic break-down for other countries too. Even though the United Kingdom has a very similar culture, standard of living and education system to Ireland, it scores 9 points lower. Go figure why.

The scores aren't static. In 2012 Ireland scored higher than the UK and Asian Americans scored higher than White Americans.



Do other countries even bother breaking out test takers by race / ethnicity?

[britchard]

(04-11-2017 01:23 PM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 12:18 PM)britchard Wrote:  

The scores aren't static. In 2012 Ireland scored higher than the UK and Asian Americans scored higher than White Americans.



Do other countries even bother breaking out test takers by race / ethnicity?

Hence proving my point... I said go figure why Ireland does better despite its apparent similarity.

[stugatz]

(04-11-2017 02:21 PM)britchard Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 01:23 PM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 12:18 PM)britchard Wrote:  

The scores aren't static. In 2012 Ireland scored higher than the UK and Asian Americans scored higher than White Americans.



Do other countries even bother breaking out test takers by race / ethnicity?

Hence proving my point... I said go figure why Ireland does better despite its apparent similarity.

Maybe because Catholics are anti-contraceptive and have boatloads of kids. Ireland, being majority Catholic, possibly has just enough people who breed like rabbits to make up for the lack of incentive to reproduce.

This is just empty speculation, I don't know as much about modern UK politics as I'd like. Has the multicultural horseshit touched Ireland less than the rest of the UK?

[Kabal]

Keep in mind a 14 point difference on the PISA, like between the UK and Ireland, isn't huge. The PISA is supposed to have a standard deviation of 100, so a 14 point difference on the PISA is somewhat analogous to a 2.1 IQ difference.

Usually you would expect UK whites to outperform Irish whites by a few points (Hajnal Line, baby!).

However, the proportion of non-white 15-16 year olds in UK is quite sizeable, so that could certainly be a factor. Also, the UK could be more vigilant in school attendance, dragging average test scores down a few PISA points.

[Kona]

So Massachusetts is a race now? And Florida is to but only around forty points less?

This makes no sense to me, but Polynesians aren't smart enough to be on the list.

Aloha!

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

(04-11-2017 05:10 PM)Kona Wrote:  

So Massachusetts is a race now? And Florida is to but only around forty points less?

This makes no sense to me, but Polynesians aren't smart enough to be on the list.

Aloha!

Sailer broke out the scores to make comparison beyond nationality and race: Comparing Mid-Atlantic / North East states with a significant "blue blood" population with states such as Florida.

As for Polynesians.. I would assume that they are rolled in with 'Asian'. Maybe there are test scores for say American Samoa available? I think the test scores are in the public domain, so you would have to do what Sailer did to find out: download and filter through them with Excel or some other program.