[Ouroboros]

I've often wondered about this. On the face of it, women seem to be quite empathetic - you can see that in their interactions with children/animals, as well as their normally proficient social skills.
But they do seem strikingly unaware of what men have to go through to have a healthy sex life...
Maybe, because they have something of a herd mentality, they just don't critically challenge the societal consensus that men have it easy. Maybe they're so self-absorbed that they just don't spare a thought for the plight of men (and because men are less likely to complain about it, they are never called out on this). Or it might be that when they do think about men, the focus of their thought is on the object of their desire - the sexually successful alpha - while the betas are an annoying distraction on the periphery, and the incels are effectively invisible/non-existent.

[torero]

(12-06-2016 06:12 AM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

Women don't reflect on the average man's sexual plight for one simple reason: they don't need to, given their abundance of options on the sexual market place and, more importantly, the multifarious societal benefits this confers on them. Furthermore, this reason can be elevated to a principle which governs the whole male-female axis of relations, explaining so much of why men and women fail to understand each other on so many different levels. I would even go so far as to maintain that man's far greater capacity for creativity, empathy and objectivity owes its entire existence to this very fact. In short: Men have always more successfully described and manipulated nature than women, because we've always been compelled by force of nature to do so, whereas women have not.

Let's assume prostitution was legal, ratios were even, feminism didn't exist.

Kevin Costner may consider remaking "A Perfect World"?

Wouldn't be quite there, but American society would be better.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(12-06-2016 06:45 AM)Ouroboros Wrote:  

I've often wondered about this. On the face of it, women seem to be quite empathetic - you can see that in their interactions with children/animals, as well as their normally proficient social skills.
But they do seem strikingly unaware of what men have to go through to have a healthy sex life...
Maybe, because they have something of a herd mentality, they just don't critically challenge the societal consensus that men have it easy. Maybe they're so self-absorbed that they just don't spare a thought for the plight of men (and because men are less likely to complain about it, they are never called out on this). Or it might be that when they do think about men, the focus of their thought is on the object of their desire - the sexually successful alpha - while the betas are an annoying distraction on the periphery, and the incels are effectively invisible/non-existent.

But the deeper question is why this should be. Think of like this: If you never need to fix a car, you're highly unlikely to ever find yourself qualified to be a car mechanic. And so it is with women.

[CynicalContrarian]

Just demonstrates the level of self-centred hubris, whereby a chick living in the best society & conditions in known human history, will still nonetheless, bitch, moan, nag, complain & cry - "woe is me".

Sisyphus may have been condemned to push that boulder for all eternity.
Yet at least that boulder never bitched, moaned, nagged nor complained.
Sisyphus could push that boulder all day long in tranquil silence.

[Suits]

(12-06-2016 02:03 AM)Delta Wrote:  

To us, the downside of being a man is clear.

Still, would you rather be a woman?

(12-06-2016 02:03 AM)Delta Wrote:  

By nature, we are powerless in the dating market.

We aren't powerless. On the last first date I went on, by venue three, a girl who had been a complete stranger 90 minutes earlier couldn't resist leaning into me. Her legs pressed up against me and when I finally reached out to hold her hand, it seemed to come as a relief to her.

While I'm not ugly, I'm also not particularly good looking. But I've learned game.

I don't feel powerless.

(12-06-2016 02:03 AM)Delta Wrote:  

Those who aren't gifted with exceptional looks or charisma (and find themselves single at any point after college) have to put in unfathomable effort just to have a fighting chance at landing a 6 whose only self-improvement sacrifice is avoiding obesity.

Somewhat true, but modern men aren't stuck living in a Western location where women don't appreciate men. I like, many others, have simply voted with my feet.

While 8's are not exactly within my easy grasp, I can get a non-stop line of 6's if I'm willing to go on regular dates.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(12-06-2016 07:03 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

Just demonstrates the level of self-centred hubris, whereby a chick living in the best society & conditions in known human history, will still nonetheless, bitch, moan, nag, complain & cry - "woe is me".

Sisyphus may have been condemned to push that boulder for all eternity.
Yet at least that boulder never bitched, moaned, nagged nor complained.
Sisyphus could push that boulder all day long in tranquil silence.

Words plated in gold.

[CynicalContrarian]

(12-06-2016 07:13 AM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

Words plated in gold.

I guess there really is always a silver lining.

[Befikre]

American women have had it easy for decades, but that all comes to an end in January 2017. #MAGA

[Silver_Tube]

That illimitable men blog is one of my favorites, he is a clever dude.

[BossOfBosses]

(12-06-2016 02:54 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

Not wanting to blow my own trumpet here, but I had a similar epiphany when I realised that from an evolutionary standpoint, men are the expendable gender, not women. Kill a third of a tribe's men and the remaining men can still repopulate the tribe. Kill a third of a tribe's women, not so much.

You forget that if you kill a third of the tribes men, the tribe's chances of survival will go down dramatically. This plays out most dramatically in pre-industrial societies where men carry the brunt of the day-to-day workload, not machines.

This is crucial fact I think the manopshere often overlooks in these "doom and gloom" conversations about male and female SMV/value:

Men = survival value
Women = reproductive value

This basic formula is something old school/mystery game understood and taught and it is crucial to understanding your value/power as a man.

The cold, hard fact is that men trade their survival value for a woman's reproductive value. A man is not "entitled" to a woman's value merely for being horny. Women know this and jealously guard their chief source of value i.e. their pussy, holding out for the right man. This is called "hypergamy", but it is simply rational calculation on their part and it makes perfect sense.

SMV maximization is just raising your survival value enough so that more women become attracted to you and want to trade their value for yours. Thus basic marketplace rules are in effect, like any other marketplace. It's not just a word, sex/love actually is an actual marketplace with clear winners, losers, those with a disproportionate share of the market etc.

[MajorStyles]

(12-06-2016 07:03 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

Sisyphus may have been condemned to push that boulder for all eternity.
Yet at least that boulder never bitched, moaned, nagged nor complained.
Sisyphus could push that boulder all day long in tranquil silence.

Or, take the character Boxer in Animal Farm with his "I will work harder" mantra. No matter what happens, he just puts his head down, pushes forward, and doesn't complain. So the farm continues to function because of his dutiful work ethic.

There is no way that the analogy is believable if the horse is a female. Because it's not in a woman's nature to work in that way: every step she takes requires confirmation, applause, agreement, etc.

I'm sure that Orwell realized that when he wrote the character (if only on a subconscious level).

[Aurini]

A century ago, not only were men allowed their natural advantage in the workplace - wives also came with dowries! It's also worth considering the toxic effect that anti-masculine themes in television have had on women. The constant portrayal of the doofy dad seeps into them.

[Serious Sam]

(12-06-2016 02:03 AM)Delta Wrote:  

If I mention how my friends and I are often rudely rejected at bars, they're shocked and confused, and assume we must have been acting ridiculous.

If I mention that I've set up dates with girls only to have them ghost before the date ever happened, they are appalled, and assume it must have been some crazy situation. When I clarify that this is a routine occurrence that has happened to me over 10 times, they can't believe it.

They're shocked and appalled, yet I guarantee that if they're single they are actively doing this (although they may not be conscious of it), or have done it. This is one reason never to take a woman's word for it or to listen to her dating advice. Her mind is full of contradictions. She shit talks the alpha jock "for being a jerk" then sucks his dick. She says she isn't attracted to her coworker then three months later they're a couple. She is appalled that some girl ghosted you while she sends a bullshit excuse to some guy she was supposed to meet later that night.

Quote:

I've had multiple girls tell me how they helped their beta guy friend set up a dating profile, and then wonder why he "isn't having any luck."

If the guy is such a catch, as she says, then why isn't she dating him? She knows why he's failing, and subconsciously she wants him to continue to fail. His lack of dating prowess validates her existence in his life, and keeps him in her orbit without her ever having to do anything other than be his little buddy.

[Grodin]

I think it really comes down to the disposability of men. If women cared too much about men it would be an evolutionary disadvantage. Someone needed to fight and hunt the mammoths. Lots of scientific support for this; such as the measured oxytocin when looking at a woman's face vs a mans. Rational Male does a much better job of explaining this than I could.

It's not productive to dwell on the negatives of being born male, there are so many advantages. Being forged by adversity and forced to conquer risk and rejection - it gives men a higher ceiling.

[CynicalContrarian]

(12-06-2016 01:12 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

A century ago, not only were men allowed their natural advantage in the workplace - wives also came with dowries! It's also worth considering the toxic effect that anti-masculine themes in television have had on women. The constant portrayal of the doofy dad seeps into them.

There has to be a special place in hell for Ray Romano...

[StrikeBack]

A woman wants to believe that HER man has it easy when it comes to getting women, else she'd be attached to a loser.

Similarly, if she has a son, she also wants to believe that he's a winner with women, so her genes will continue.

If you desire sympathy from women in this regard, you are thinking like a loser, and you will never get anywhere with women.

Let's say women suddenly believe you that you have it hard in the dating market. Now what? What do you expect them to do?

I'm no super player, but I'm not powerless in the dating market. I could get an 8 once in a blue moon, a 7 more often, and I can have 6s lining up. I could go overseas and upgrade on that. Still, while I was dating around, I had to go through hard times just like pretty much every guy here. I never wanted women to know about that though, why would I? It is in MY interest for them to believe that I have it easy. My wife (an 8 in her early-mid 20) believes that I have it very easy and so many women want me, which is actually partially true because they see me with her, a beautiful woman, who looks obviously and completely smitten in my presence. She frequently gets a little bit jealous and wants to improve herself even more to fight off the (largely perceived, not real) competition. The funniest thing is that a lot of the women she gets jelly about are 6s that objectively pose no threat to her, but women aren't exactly rational creatures. I essentially have automatic soft-dread game going without having to do a thing.

Women believing men have it easy is a feature of life. It's up to you whether you use it to your advantage, or feel sorry for yourself.

[RatInTheWoods]

Women have it much easier than men in life, but who wants to live an easy life?

The men in here thrive on adversity and hardship, and like it just the way it is now.

[John Michael Kane]

(12-06-2016 08:36 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

A woman wants to believe that HER man has it easy when it comes to getting women, else she'd be attached to a loser.

Similarly, if she has a son, she also wants to believe that he's a winner with women, so her genes will continue.

Interesting theory and ones that has merits. A woman wants to be attracted to a man with options, but chooses her as his only option. No woman wants to be thought of as the the only pick of a man. That's why in chick lit you see women pinning after an unavailable (but attractive to many women) man who she finally wins over.

The beauty of being a man is that you are born at a disadvantage, but the feeling of growth is like a drug as you improve. Why are so many of us here with Roosh? We found ourselves oftentimes in a part of our life that was unfulfilling and wanted camaraderie and accountability from our fellow men to improve. Never forget the benefits of fraternity in forging men in the fires of friendship!

[MajorStyles]

(12-06-2016 08:36 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

A woman wants to believe that HER man has it easy when it comes to getting women, else she'd be attached to a loser.
Similarly, if she has a son, she also wants to believe that he's a winner with women, so her genes will continue.

Good points. There is almost always a biological underpinning to the actions of women.

[scorpion]

Any man who gets butthurt over how much easier woman have it in life is proving that the women who rejected him were correct to do so. That's total loser behavior. Women are simply filters who ensure that weak men do not pass their seed onto the next generation. That's the harsh truth. If you're unable to get through the filter (convincing a woman that you're a worthy candidate for sex/reproduction) then you're objectively a failure in the sexual marketplace.

But the vast majority of men are capable of success in this regard. Many of them simply give up, though. And that is ultimately what makes them losers in the game: their own lack of will. It's not the fault of women for rejecting them, it's their own fault for wallowing in self pity and refusing to do the necessary hard work to improve and try again, as many times as it takes until they succeed.

[budoslavic]

(12-06-2016 03:34 AM)Meat Head Wrote:  

Why men have it easier

Because men dont go through the agony of pregnancy and child birth.
Men dont get hounded for sex everywhere they go.
The chance for rape are low.
Men are fertile forever.
Men look better when they are old.
An orgasm is guaranteed.
Men are smarter, stronger and funnier.

[Meat Head]

Maybe that is why some men like Bruce Jenner choose to be women and gays because it is easier.

[262]

^ Just to add - as I recall, most kids changing genders (can't believe I typed that) are going from male to female, not the other way around.

[EvanWilson]

(12-06-2016 01:12 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

A century ago, not only were men allowed their natural advantage in the workplace - wives also came with dowries! It's also worth considering the toxic effect that anti-masculine themes in television have had on women. The constant portrayal of the doofy dad seeps into them.

One interesting thought I had years ago is that many women now come with 'negative dowries'. Since almost everyone goes to college, and borrows large amounts to pay for it, many women now have large student loans still outstanding when they get married. This would not be a problem as long as the women keep working and the family profits from the additional income, even after paying the loan each month.

The problem, of course, is that a lot of women can't get work that will bring in enough to make it worth while, or even worse, stop working, leaving the guy stuck with paying off the loans on top of all the other household expenses and the family worse off than if the wife had no college/loans.

[Jim Johnson]

The ignorance goes for everyone. Women have no idea at all the crap have to go through, just like men are cognizant of a woman's need to feel safe.

A big issue is the lagging SMV that men have to wait through when their sex drive is at it's height. I suppose men can be very harsh (sometimes vengeful) to women as their SMV diminishes and their drive to find a LTR increases. A huge problem with women is early on, they become prideful because of their higher SMV. Hence, you never see women asking men out, buying them gifts, or whatever like men had to do through the teens and 20's. If they remain single, they will just become bitter and get some cats.