[VincentVinturi]

I'm in an LTR after almost a decade of debaucherous bachelorhood.

I met an amazing girl, things got serious, she moved in, and now I'm right in the thick of the relationship grind.

Everybody's different, some guys actually prefer to be in LTRs over being single.

I personally see LTRs as one HUGE compromise.

Few men would give up their freedom, subject themselves to ball-busting (which I don't care how alpha you are, your chick will put you through this), and allow a woman to share their space and home if it weren't for the ultimate payoff:

Offspring with a decent chance of survival and replication.

Any way you slice it, relationships seem like a raw deal if not for this one payoff.

It's expensive, stressful, boring, encroaching, suffocating.

I've even considered saying fuck it, I'd rather live single and happy and sire some illegitimate kids than go through this year and year out.

And this is a girl I absolutely adore mind you.

Prior to her I didn't even let girls spend the night, let alone stay with me.

I saw some poor bastard at the airport the other day ready to throw in the towel with his wife and kids.

I felt sorry for him because the stress a woman can add to your life is profound.

But here's the thing.

If you've found a honest to goodness unicorn, the dynamic will get stale in a matter of months I don't care how wonderous she is.

And if you're used to constant variety it's not an easy transition to make, and not one that makes any sense anyway.

In fact it's absolutely, undeniably evident to me that male infidelity is KEY to a healthy long term relationship.

Otherwise any man with T levels about 150 would blow his brains out listening to his beloved's inane prattle which he once found so enthralling.

Some days I love the shit out of her, others I want to throw her or myself off a bridge or just fuck off to Colombia and never be seen again.

But in the back of my mind I'm thinking this is a fantastic woman, who will make a terrific mother and partner, and so sue me, I really love her.

Is that really the whole point of this thing? Just to make and raise some kids?

Otherwise you'd be out of there in a heartbeat?

Older guys, hit me with some wisdom please, this shit is hard work.

[Rawmeo]

I am currently married and I can tell you, still having side chicks is what helps me get through. I got a virgin bride from a complete family with money and who accepted the prenup without complaining, and I see myself having kids with her. Only problem is, it gets harder and harder to get a boner when always fucking the same girl, no matter how wonderful she might be. Spinning plates is what helps me increase my deside towards her, and it makes me happer whenever I go out with my wife. Men bodies are made this way, and there's nothing we can do about that. And besides, if she decides to leave in a few years, I'll be happy knowing that I didn't lose my prime with a now-gone pussy.

Just don't let anyone know.

[XPQ22]

I've been seeing this one girl I call "Deadpan Plate" (because she likes to drop deadpan one-liners on me via text a la Aubrey Plaza) off and on for many months now. We both "don't ask don't tell" know we're not exclusive. You could use the term "primary partners", but I'm not into the cuck lifestyle and if I caught her openly hanging out with another dude regularly I'd likely drop her.

Sex has dropped off a little since the early days, but we still bang at least once or twice a week and it's still fantastic every time; we give each other quite a workout.

She's submissive, into kink and being strapped down, blindfolded, wearing latex and being tied up and shit, and that helps a lot to keep it fresh. She's definitely no unicorn and has a slutty past for sure, but she works the D like a fiend. Some of these early 30s chicks have monster sex drives.

But IMO living with a woman day in and day out is frankly nuts.

[griffinmill]

One of the major downsides to a relationship is the amount of negativity a girl can potentially bring to your life. The ball-busting and shaming is endless, and they can be extremely mentally abusive in their pursuit for dominance.

What patriarchy?

It's just a simple fact of nature that women are more emotional than men, and it's tough putting up with the fits of pique followed by the silent treatment for some minor indiscretion. Their reason and logic faculties are non-existent, and it can be frustrating dealing with this.

Disclaimer: There are many good girls out there who will add value to your life, and the only thing you have to worry about with them is your dwindling boner.

[XPQ22]

(11-22-2016 01:13 PM)griffinmill Wrote:  

One of the major downsides to a relationship is the amount of negativity a girl can potentially bring to your life. The ball-busting and shaming is endless, and they can be extremely mentally abusive in their pursuit for dominance.

What patriarchy?

Yep. The great thing about not living with my main girl is that by not being right on top of her regularly, it's pretty easy to keep my game tight and play her natural ball-busting antics to the left.

I know from her personality that if I lived with her she'd be constantly busting my balls about not putting the silverware back properly or putting the toilet paper on the wrong way.

But since I'm not there, she ball-busts her vapid younger roommate instead. "Oh my God, that bitch took my measuring cup for the kitty-litter again!"



That's what friends are for, sweetheart!

[Merenguero]

Vincent, a bit off-topic, but that link to your blog on your profile is infected with a virus or something. I clicked on it a few minutes ago and my computer started going completely crazy.

[Serious Sam]

I feel ya man. I've been in an LTR the last year and a half. So far, I have been faithful, but that may end soon.

I work out of town a few days a week. I have my own place here and could easily be spinning plates, but alas, I'm still fighting my conscience. Plus I'm the type of guy who likes to cover his bases. I work in a smallish town, and it would really suck if my main girl came to visit and we happened to run into some other girl I've banged. The chances of that happening are slim, but higher than if living in a big city.

Those reservations have held me back, but lately I have noticed some talent around me, and, being tired of going days without action is getting tiring. I just installed Tinder and have a couple of leads. I'll see where they go.

I think at the very least, men in LTRs or who have gotten married need to flirt and game other women. If someone doesn't want to fuck another woman because he might feel guilty after, I totally understand. I'm still uncertain whether or not I want to go that far or just keep it light.

Approaching different women, building interest, etc. is definitely necessary to maintaining an LTR. It keeps your confidence high, and even if you don't fuck the girls who show interest, you at least know that you could have if not for your silly little conscience getting in the way.

[Travesty]

(11-22-2016 12:24 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

I felt sorry for him because the stress a woman can add to your life is profound.

Ah God loves to troll us, just like we love to troll each other.

I honestly believe women put stress on men so that the stronger men that won't put up with it will go have more children with different women and spread the genes of a man that doesn't take shit. I also think this is why women tend to get naggier as they age. They are really telling the man, look I can't produce more kids - you are a genetic loser for staying here.

Get out there and fucking be somebody!

The guys that do not pass this test have children with only one woman or no women.

Sad yet true.

The ultimate successful man does not have children with one woman he stays with. He has children with 20 different women all in their primes. That large pool of children and different mothers has a much better chance of spreading for generations than one great woman with a good head on her shoulders and 5 nice kids.

[MongolianAbroad]

(11-22-2016 12:24 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

I'm in an LTR after almost a decade of debaucherous bachelorhood.

I met an amazing girl, things got serious, she moved in, and now I'm right in the thick of the relationship grind.

Everybody's different, some guys actually prefer to be in LTRs over being single.

I personally see LTRs as one HUGE compromise.

Why not have an LTR without her moving in?

I've found that to work well, as long as she's living with her parents.

There's nothing wrong with having your own space.

[Meat Head]

Are Ltrs with Asians as ball busting as Ltrs with white girls?

[JoeSea]

It truly does seem at times that if there's one universal strategy girls use to keep a guy in a relationship it's to allow you to see the utter depths of her craziness so you tell yourself this is NOT a person that can be left alone by herself for too long.

[Unchained]

Why do men with game cohabitate with women if they aren't having kids? Silly silly move IMO. Like Spaniard88 said there's no reason to be moving in together.

[DaveR]

I prefer LTRs myself, but I agree that they do involve a lot of work. The main thing is finding ways to spend time apart so she can't get on your nerves.

Having plenty of space helps a lot, especially if you work from home. At least 3-4 rooms: bedroom, a kitchen/living room for her to occupy herself without bothering you, and a working area for yourself, preferably well-separated so she'll remember not to enter without you having to keep the door closed all the time.

Also try to take 'business trips' alone or send her to her family for a couple of weeks to get rid of her.

[PainPositive]

If your woman is ball busting you are not raising her right.

Granted I'm in EE and have lived here awhile but I haven't met a girl wasn't able to break of that habit.

There is a word for a guy who gets his balls busted all the time by his girl.

If you spend time with a girl regularly you should be working on those bad habits.

I'm not trying to play macho here but if you are dealing with constant ballbusting you need to learn to handle your woman better.

[XXL]

Ok so maybe tell us what's your actual problem, so far you're just yapping that you let her be your GF

[XPQ22]

(11-22-2016 03:22 PM)PainPositive Wrote:  

If your woman is ball busting you are not raising her right.

Granted I'm in EE and have lived here awhile but I haven't met a girl wasn't able to break of that habit.

There is a word for a guy who gets his balls busted all the time by his girl.

If you spend time with a girl regularly you should be working on those bad habits.

I'm not trying to play macho here but if you are dealing with constant ballbusting you need to learn to handle your woman better.

A couple polite yet firm "soft nexts" go a very, very long way into setting the frame correctly.

Women really want our time most of all, and can be pretty Pavlonian after you've showed that you're willing to walk when they start acting onerous.

If you want to bitch at someone about something, bitch at your friends or co-workers. I'm sure they'll enjoy the drama. But not me, I ain't the one.

[Lime]

Do you guys mean actual ball busting when a chick kicks you in the balls or what exactly?

[XPQ22]

(11-22-2016 03:58 PM)Lime Wrote:  

Do you guys mean actual ball busting when a chick kicks you in the balls or what exactly?

Yes, that would probably be grounds for a soft next, at least.

[Stimulus]

Damn, I know exactly how you feel but I'd never be able to word it the way you do. I had a relationship for 12 years and even though I loved her to death I stalled living together for as long as I could (in the first place because we were just teenagers when our LTR started, second because the idea of being around eachother day-in/day-out scared the shit out of me). In the end, living together lasted 4 years.

Honestly it wasn't that bad. Sure there were some downsides and times that I needed that bridge you are talking about, but overall it was great, we loved eachother, sex was good and there were little things we didn't like. The only thing I felt I missed out on: other women.

Now, for the first time in my adult life I'm single and I just can't imagine myself living with a woman within the next 5-10 years. I like my privacy, being alone when I want to, do things MY way, living MY life. I'm way too selfish.

I think the main issue for most individuals is that when you start living together, you start living eachothers lives. You have to deal with compromises, grumpy moods, family/friends (coming with a certain amount of obligations) you actually don't like, etcetera, the list goes on and on. You've just had 10 years of being selfish and doing whatever the fuck you want, whenever the fuck you want. This living together takes some getting used to..

Don't get me wrong with all this negative talk, at some point in life I truly believe people are able to do so AND be happy the way things are.

[John_Galt]

I'm going to give you some tough love here.

It's not her. It's you.

Let me quote a few things from your rant:

Quote:

Few men would give up their freedom, subject themselves to ball-busting (which I don't care how alpha you are, your chick will put you through this)

Nope. Uh-uh. Negative.

I've had several multi-year relationships with chicks that NEVER "ball-busted". And I am NOT the epitome of Alpha. I'm no Don Draper. What I do differently than you is select wisely. I pick girls who are humble, submissive, and compassionate for my LTR's. Every man is different. Some men LIKE ball-busting girls. They see them as "challenging". Not me. When I want a challenge, I hunt for new pussy. LTR's are made for relaxation.

Quote:

It's expensive, stressful, boring, encroaching, suffocating.

Expensive? A live-in LTR should be SAVING you money. Unless she's a stay at home housewife, in which case, why isn't she working if you aren't married? Boring, stressful, sure, I can see that. Suffocating, again, comes down to your selection and also the size of your dwelling. You might need a bigger place in order to accept an live in with a girl. Every man is different.

This is the part where I'm going to give some tough love. Bare with me.

Quote:

Prior to her I didn't even let girls spend the night, let alone stay with me.

There are two reasons this could be the case. Either the women you were with prior to this one were simply not interesting/attractive/etc enough, i.e. the women you typically sleep with aren't intriguing enough for you to want to spend the night with, OR you have some kind of mental block regarding commitment with women.

And if it's the latter, it's ok. I have it too.

Personally, sticking to one girl scares the shit out of me. If you get comfortable, and stop banging other girls, at any given moment she can decide to leave, take your shit, take your kids (if you have any) and just start banging some other man or men. And bam, your life as you knew it is OVER.

But at the end of the day, YOU are in control over your OWN mind, your OWN destiny, your OWN choices. CHOOSE the right girl. CHOOSE the right environment (country, city, house, school, etc) CHOOSE your mindset.

It doesn't matter if the girl is the perfect unicorn if YOU are too fucked up to appreciate it. There's a lot of talk about how damaged women in the west are, and with good reason. What's seldom discussed is how damaged WE are.

Most of the men on this forum, probably 70% easily, have some sort of inner demons they haven't confronted. Maybe it was growing up without a father figure. Maybe they have a shitty relationship with their mothers. Maybe we were just fucked over one too many times by that "special girl" we gave our hearts to. No matter what the reason is, most of us have some unresolved shit that affect the way we think, deal with, and treat women everyday.

I'm not saying we don't have the RIGHT to feel this way, I'm not saying it's ILLOGICAL. I'm just saying IT IS. And the sooner you recognize it, the better off you'll be.

Quote:

If you've found a honest to goodness unicorn, the dynamic will get stale in a matter of months I don't care how wonderous she is.

First, I don't think you've found a unicorn. If she really was a unicorn, she wouldn't be constantly busting your balls and adding stress to your life. GOOD women GIVE more than they TAKE. Period. The other possibility is she IS a unicorn, and you're unable to recognize or appreciate it because of YOUR fucked up headspace. I've been there too. Either way, figure out which it is and react accordingly.

Quote:

And if you're used to constant variety it's not an easy transition to make, and not one that makes any sense anyway.

You're absolutely spot on. Take it from someone who just ended a 2 year LTR where she lived with me for 18 months. The first couple of months are amazing, but after that, you'll start getting bored with her, sexually, conversationally, etc. You'll start neglecting her, ignoring her even when she's in the same room, etc. Eventually she'll get tired of this and get her needs met elsewhere.

I don't think infidelity is the be-all-end-all answer to this problem. It helps, certainly. But you need more than just cheating to fix the problem.

Relationships are two-way transactions. You have to give and take. Honestly, sometimes it helps to just schedule a date night every week. It sounds beta as fuck, but if you want the relationship to keep from getting stale, it needs to be done. Otherwise you'll just neglect her and she'll get tired of that. Like you said, THIS SHIT IS HARD WORK.

Perhaps you aren't ready for that. That's ok. I found out the hard way I'm not yet ready either. But if you DO decide you want this woman to be the mother of your kids, recognize it's the way things are. It doesn't get easier. I think the ultimate goal of a relationship is to provide more fulfillment than simply fucking random girls can provide. But nothing in life is free. EVERYTHING has it's price. It's ultimately up to you to decide whether if it's a price worth paying.

[nek]

(11-22-2016 05:43 PM)John_Galt Wrote:  

I'm going to give you some tough love here.

It's not her. It's you.

Let me quote a few things from your rant:

Quote:

Few men would give up their freedom, subject themselves to ball-busting (which I don't care how alpha you are, your chick will put you through this)

Nope. Uh-uh. Negative.

I've had several multi-year relationships with chicks that NEVER "ball-busted". And I am NOT the epitome of Alpha. I'm no Don Draper. What I do differently than you is select wisely. I pick girls who are humble, submissive, and compassionate for my LTR's. Every man is different. Some men LIKE ball-busting girls. They see them as "challenging". Not me. When I want a challenge, I hunt for new pussy. LTR's are made for relaxation.

Quote:

It's expensive, stressful, boring, encroaching, suffocating.

Expensive? A live-in LTR should be SAVING you money. Unless she's a stay at home housewife, in which case, why isn't she working if you aren't married? Boring, stressful, sure, I can see that. Suffocating, again, comes down to your selection and also the size of your dwelling. You might need a bigger place in order to accept an live in with a girl. Every man is different.

This is the part where I'm going to give some tough love. Bare with me.

Quote:

Prior to her I didn't even let girls spend the night, let alone stay with me.

There are two reasons this could be the case. Either the women you were with prior to this one were simply not interesting/attractive/etc enough, i.e. the women you typically sleep with aren't intriguing enough for you to want to spend the night with, OR you have some kind of mental block regarding commitment with women.

And if it's the latter, it's ok. I have it too.

Personally, sticking to one girl scares the shit out of me. If you get comfortable, and stop banging other girls, at any given moment she can decide to leave, take your shit, take your kids (if you have any) and just start banging some other man or men. And bam, your life as you knew it is OVER.

But at the end of the day, YOU are in control over your OWN mind, your OWN destiny, your OWN choices. CHOOSE the right girl. CHOOSE the right environment (country, city, house, school, etc) CHOOSE your mindset.

It doesn't matter if the girl is the perfect unicorn if YOU are too fucked up to appreciate it. There's a lot of talk about how damaged women in the west are, and with good reason. What's seldom discussed is how damaged WE are.

Most of the men on this forum, probably 70% easily, have some sort of inner demons they haven't confronted. Maybe it was growing up without a father figure. Maybe they have a shitty relationship with their mothers. Maybe we were just fucked over one too many times by that "special girl" we gave our hearts to. No matter what the reason is, most of us have some unresolved shit that affect the way we think, deal with, and treat women everyday.

I'm not saying we don't have the RIGHT to feel this way, I'm not saying it's ILLOGICAL. I'm just saying IT IS. And the sooner you recognize it, the better off you'll be.

Quote:

If you've found a honest to goodness unicorn, the dynamic will get stale in a matter of months I don't care how wonderous she is.

First, I don't think you've found a unicorn. If she really was a unicorn, she wouldn't be constantly busting your balls and adding stress to your life. GOOD women GIVE more than they TAKE. Period. The other possibility is she IS a unicorn, and you're unable to recognize or appreciate it because of YOUR fucked up headspace. I've been there too. Either way, figure out which it is and react accordingly.

Quote:

And if you're used to constant variety it's not an easy transition to make, and not one that makes any sense anyway.

You're absolutely spot on. Take it from someone who just ended a 2 year LTR where she lived with me for 18 months. The first couple of months are amazing, but after that, you'll start getting bored with her, sexually, conversationally, etc. You'll start neglecting her, ignoring her even when she's in the same room, etc. Eventually she'll get tired of this and get her needs met elsewhere.

I don't think infidelity is the be-all-end-all answer to this problem. It helps, certainly. But you need more than just cheating to fix the problem.

Relationships are two-way transactions. You have to give and take. Honestly, sometimes it helps to just schedule a date night every week. It sounds beta as fuck, but if you want the relationship to keep from getting stale, it needs to be done. Otherwise you'll just neglect her and she'll get tired of that. Like you said, THIS SHIT IS HARD WORK.

Perhaps you aren't ready for that. That's ok. I found out the hard way I'm not yet ready either. But if you DO decide you want this woman to be the mother of your kids, recognize it's the way things are. It doesn't get easier. I think the ultimate goal of a relationship is to provide more fulfillment than simply fucking random girls can provide. But nothing in life is free. EVERYTHING has it's price. It's ultimately up to you to decide whether if it's a price worth paying.

The key to a good meal is picking good ingredients.

[nek]

(11-22-2016 12:24 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

Is that really the whole point of this thing? Just to make and raise some kids?

Otherwise you'd be out of there in a heartbeat?

You might be on the verge of an existential crisis. But more to the point:

Look at every other living species on this planet. There's bugs that live for 24 hrs. In that 24 hrs, they'll eat, mate, and die. That's it, that's all. We like to overcomplicate things as humans but really all of our conflicts, with other people and wth ourselves, really revolve around the goals of survival, reproduction, and having our offspring reproduce; in essence, LIFE/EXISTENCE GOING ON. No amount of self-improvement, philosophizing, skill-learning, or adventure chasing changes that.

P.S., interesting thing to ponder related to this idea: If people didn't die, would we still be religious? In my view, Religion serves as a psychological adaptation to resolve the conflict between the awareness of our own mortality and this need for life to go on, even after life.

[nek]

(11-22-2016 05:43 PM)John_Galt Wrote:  

It doesn't matter if the girl is the perfect unicorn if YOU are too fucked up to appreciate it. There's a lot of talk about how damaged women in the west are, and with good reason. What's seldom discussed is how damaged WE are.

Most of the men on this forum, probably 70% easily, have some sort of inner demons they haven't confronted. Maybe it was growing up without a father figure. Maybe they have a shitty relationship with their mothers. Maybe we were just fucked over one too many times by that "special girl" we gave our hearts to. No matter what the reason is, most of us have some unresolved shit that affect the way we think, deal with, and treat women everyday.

I'm not saying we don't have the RIGHT to feel this way, I'm not saying it's ILLOGICAL. I'm just saying IT IS. And the sooner you recognize it, the better off you'll be.

This is great stuff, and this search for the perfect virgin unicorn with 0 red flags is an example of it to a point. I'm not saying that there are qualities that are better indicators than others about success, but I think the deeper issue is the fear of failure guys have if they pick a woman and it doesn't work out. I can't find the exact thread/post, but one poster was talking about guys that sort of roll with the punches, have a "fun while it lasted" mindset, and how they are the most mentally strong and resilient. I tend to agree with this. It seems to me that some guys might be deathly afraid of something not working out, a perfectionist's hell. Whether you want to admit it or not, this perfectionism is a defect (I of all people know this). Having expectations and standards is good, but you have to be strong enough not to fold when it doesn't work out.

[John_Galt]

Exactly.

There's nothing wrong with having high standards, but you have to be aware of your own faults as well.

Recognizing your own strengths and weaknesses is KEY to success long-term with women.

It's also important to never gamble more than you can afford to lose. We all have different levels of resiliency, but being aware of your own is what matters so that you don't lose more than what you're comfortable with.

That said, I think a lot of the guys who "roll with the punches" are kidding themselves. They never allow themselves to emotionally connect on a deep level with women, and they think this is the same as being resilient. It's like living in a castle and bragging how you never get hurt, despite being trapped in it's confines and never leaving. Sure, you never get hurt---but you also are trapped in your own prison. There's nothing inherently wrong with this----but I don't think it's something worth bragging about.

[Donkey_Riding]

(11-22-2016 12:24 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

Is that really the whole point of this thing? Just to make and raise some kids?

Otherwise you'd be out of there in a heartbeat?

It's like anything else in life. There's no point to anything other than what you make of it. As nek pointed out, we're just animals. Yet many of us would hardly be satisfied with claiming reproduction as the only point in our lives.

If you're at a point where the only reason you want to stay in the LTR is because you want to have children and you think she's the best option, I'd say that's a problem (see below).

(11-22-2016 12:24 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

Some days I love the shit out of her, others I want to throw her or myself off a bridge or just fuck off to Colombia and never be seen again.

Everyone has ups and downs. But if you regularly feel shitty because of your relationship, IMO you either need to change things so that doesn't happen (unlikely to work, based on what you're said), or get out. Any rationally-selected long-term life decision should increase your happiness, not reduce it.

(11-22-2016 12:24 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

In fact it's absolutely, undeniably evident to me that male infidelity is KEY to a healthy long term relationship.

Perhaps off-topic for this thread, but why does it have to be infidelity? Why not just make it clear to the girl that you're going to get some on the side and she has to deal with it? I don't see it as infidelity unless you've agreed to be exclusive.