[zero1]

I've half swallowed the so called "red pill" of AWALT, but still have reservations that I'd appreciate if someone could explain.

I've been living in the phils the past 4 years and of course the high SMV here of any foreigner has given me a "god mode" factor I've never had in my home country (australia), so it's allowed me a shit tonne of sexual and relationship experiences I'd otherwise not normally have had.

Over time I've evolved from the typical gold digger pretenders to much more quality girls who are brought up well with genuine life goals and receive nothing from me financially. It's the occasional gem I come across that makes me question AWALT. Now, I realize the counter argument to this is that the culture in the phils is not feminist like the west, and if the girls here were put into a feminist country like the US or Australia, that they would soon collapse into typical slutty behaviour. Same argument could be applied to a conservative bible-belt town in the US.

Thing is, after observing a lot of these girls who go overseas and come back to family after a year or so, a small minority of them don't develop the typical slutty tendencies inherent in the west. These girls are almost always from smaller cities outside manila where they're brought up well. I know of at least two who went on to get married with someone near their own age in the west and they seem genuinely happy like in a pre-1960's type of marriage. I'm not talking about the typical 20yo-60yo "mail order bride" relationships, but with an age gap where genuine mutual attraction is possible, where the guy has at least some SMV back at home.

I realize the stereotype of the girls here being gold diggers, but in my observation this just isn't the case in many areas outside the tourist hot spots/bars/dating sites, especially with girls that are from middle class families and are brought up well.

Keep in mind these so called "good girls" that I'm referring to here are a small minority of girls. I get it that most of the girls have an eventual goal of money/passport, and/or are hidden closet sluts. But when you make your game known that they're only a plate, or a local LTR, with no prospect of ever receiving anything financially, or ever going overseas (I have no plans to return to australia and am not a tourist) - it becomes much easier to sift through the majority of these pretenders and get to the gems.

One thing I will admit - hypergamy is definitely AWALT. I'd be nothing to the nice girls here if it wasn't for the higher SMV from being a foreigner in his 30's with a bit of game. That I completely concede and accept as AWALT.

But the supposed long term ulterior motives of women, or the cheating/slutty tendencies, I just have found too many exceptions.

If AWALT holds, how is it possible that virgins for instance are willing to lose it here (when this trait is so highly valued in the country), even when you make it known to them you're not looking for a LTR and you provide them nothing? One girl I'm seeing now, even when I tell her I'm seeing other girls still and her eyes get teary each time she fails to convince me to "just be a good guy now" - still seems genuinely in-love no matter what I do to push her away or treat her like shit? I know the love from her is real, and I can do anything I want to her.

She knows all we'll ever do is fuck, she receives nothing from me, she buys me dinner, cooks, cleans etc, perfect wife material. She just wants to be with me at all costs. She's committed to me whilst I bang other girls, and I know she's not banging other guys from experience. 99% of other girls would be, but I feel you can build up an intuition of when a girl is genuine after a while, at least so I think. This particular girl it's been going on like this for a year.

Other plates in the past have also been like this. It's rare, but it does happen. And often when I end it with them they frequently threaten suicide or something like that. Not all of them that show this level of loyalty are crazy though. I'm not leading these girls on, I'm honest about my lifestyle and that they can never expect anything from me, but the attachment grows with some of them regardless. And to be honest, I sometimes feel it too. Sometimes a lot.

So my question is, if AWALT truly holds, how is this sort of loyalty possible with a small but nevertheless apparent minority of girls? Is AWALT more applicable to feminist countries?

I get that the "female program" is present everywhere in every female. But surely so are genetic mutations, even epigenetic factors such as the girl's environment, that could evolve a woman in some places away from the slutty/cheating/ulterior motive tendencies of AWALT?

I concede this thinking of mine is most likely idiotic, I'd just like an explanation to counter it.

[TornadoByProxy]

All women are like that. It's their environment and circumstances (attractiveness, wealth, etc) that constrain them.

[Phoenix]

All women are programmed to get the best deal they can. Same as we are. But culture is the lens through which that desire is rendered. Things like time preferences (get all you can now, or hold out for a better future), the restraining morals they're taught (or disabused of) by parents/media etc, affect it.

[John_Galt]

The fact that the virgins sleep with you even though you don't provide anything just proves AWALT.

Let me explain: Although you think she's being loyal, the reality is she's just following her biological programming. This breaks down into two parts:

1. Pair-bonding. Most members of this forum are aware that, outside of mitigating circumstances---a virgin will be permanently bonded to the first guy she sleeps with. Her loyalty will be nearly boundless----you pretty much have to kill her puppy and fuck her sister and mother in a 3some in front of her to get her to leave you.

2. Women like men who are pre-selected and high-value. You're a foriegner. You're "rich" (to her). Other women want you. And you also don't want her. The fact that she has to work SO HARD just to keep you fucking her makes you more an more valuable to her. I think it's called the gamblers fallacy. Basically, the more you invest, the more emotionally attached to the outcome you become.

Also, another thing that proves AWALT: You treat her poorly, and she loves you more. We all know women love assholes, and this girl is no exception. The very fact that you won't have her makes her love you. If you want undeniable proof AWALT, simply stop fucking other girls, date her exclusively, and start acting beta----in 6 months she will leave you for another foreigner.

If somehow she passes this test, then congrats, you've found a unicorn and proven that NAWALT. Now go get married and have babies, if it suits you.

[zero1]

(11-20-2016 08:59 PM)John_Galt Wrote:  

The fact that the virgins sleep with you even though you don't provide anything just proves AWALT.

Let me explain: Although you think she's being loyal, the reality is she's just following her biological programming. This breaks down into two parts:

1. Pair-bonding. Most members of this forum are aware that, outside of mitigating circumstances---a virgin will be permanently bonded to the first guy she sleeps with. Her loyalty will be nearly boundless----you pretty much have to kill her puppy and fuck her sister and mother in a 3some in front of her to get her to leave you.

2. Women like men who are pre-selected and high-value. You're a foriegner. You're "rich" (to her). Other women want you. And you also don't want her. The fact that she has to work SO HARD just to keep you fucking her makes you more an more valuable to her. I think it's called the gamblers fallacy. Basically, the more you invest, the more emotionally attached to the outcome you become.

Also, another thing that proves AWALT: You treat her poorly, and she loves you more. We all know women love assholes, and this girl is no exception. The very fact that you won't have her makes her love you. If you want undeniable proof AWALT, simply stop fucking other girls, date her exclusively, and start acting beta----in 6 months she will leave you for another foreigner.

If somehow she passes this test, then congrats, you've found a unicorn and proven that NAWALT. Now go get married and have babies, if it suits you.

Great points. I agree with this and have observed it. The thing is though I notice a lot of married couples here that stay together for years like in traditional marriages, and the thought of cheating for instance seems foreign to a lot of them, even with beta husbands.

As Phoenix stated so well, culture is a lens through which girls get the best deal they can. Thing is if they have really been brought up well enough to view cheating as so reprehensible they'd never entertain the act regardless of what situation they're in, would this just be because of the lens suppressing their true, raw unfiltered desire, or could the upbringing have lead to some actual permanent mental change where they genuinely don't desire to cheat, and no amount of western exposure or celebrity-alpha fuck temptation would cause them to stray?

I realize this is dangerous idealistic thinking, but I'm having trouble fully swallowing the AWALT pill seeing examples like these around.

[Leonard D Neubache]

AWALT.

Wait a sec. AWALwhat? Cheaters? Gold diggers?

AWALT is not a precept to predict female behaviour down to the fine details. It's a system of determining likely outcomes.

To my mind it is simplified most perfectly by the following summary.

My outcomes.
My children's outcomes.
My man's outcomes.
My society's outcomes.

Rarely the two top ones will be flipped. What's probably confusing you is that you see self sacrifice in the doe-eyed virgin whereas what's really going on is simply a delusional fantasy playing out in her mind where she ultimately becomes a winner.

If she was really sacrificing everything for you and putting you first then she wouldn't be guilt tripping you to settle down, would she? She'd have "unconditional" love for you, right? And even the ones that claim to have unconditional love are in reality playing a long game to make you feel safe before they snag you for good.

Women are convincing in this because they are the ultimate method actors. Their limited capacity for logical thought and the oxygen deprivation they suffer due to the limited amount of blood in their hormone stream makes them truly believe their own bullshit, even if it's the complete opposite of what they were just portraying a moment ago.

Dude, AWALT. They might not set out to do this shit on purpose, but it's in their blood and had been for a thousand generations. Dog will hunt. Woman will manipulate.

p.s. the difference between the monogamous old-age couple and the dumb bitch that cheats on an alpha millionaire and gets dumped is ENTIRELY IQ BASED. Dumb people make choices on what they want right that second with no regard for their future prospects. In this regard men and woman are both like that.

[zero1]

(11-20-2016 09:55 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

AWALT.

Wait a sec. AWALwhat? Cheaters? Gold diggers?

AWALT is not a precept to predict female behaviour down to the fine details. It's a system of determining likely outcomes.

To my mind it is simplified most perfectly by the following summary.

My outcomes.
My children's outcomes.
My man's outcomes.
My society's outcomes.

Rarely the two top ones will be flipped. What's probably confusing you is that you see self sacrifice in the doe-eyed virgin whereas what's really going on is simply a delusional fantasy playing out in her mind where she ultimately becomes a winner.

If she was really sacrificing everything for you and putting you first then she wouldn't be guilt tripping you to settle down, would she? She'd have "unconditional" love for you, right? And even the ones that claim to have unconditional love are in reality playing a long game to make you feel safe before they snag you for good.

Women are convincing in this because they are the ultimate method actors. Their limited capacity for logical thought and the oxygen deprivation they suffer due to the limited amount of blood in their hormone stream makes them truly believe their own bullshit, even if it's the complete opposite of what they were just portraying a moment ago.

Dude, AWALT. They might not set out to do this shit on purpose, but it's in their blood and had been for a thousand generations. Dog will hunt. Woman will manipulate.

p.s. the difference between the monogamous old-age couple and the dumb bitch that cheats on an alpha millionaire and gets dumped is ENTIRELY IQ BASED. Dumb people make choices on what they want right that second with no regard for their future prospects. In this regard men and woman are both like that.

Great points, a lot to think about. This actually helps overcome a lot of the guilt and regret I'm feeling about leaving girls like that. I can't help but think they're "discarded unicorns", but your point about unconditional love not allowing me to feel anything bad is a good one.

I guess the last problem I'm having is the guilt surrounding letting girls like that go because "AWALT anyway", even if I haven't observed it yet and they've checked all the boxes for an ideal good girl. I feel some of them really would settle down and remain monogamous if it's what I chose, and letting them go stays on my mind for years.

[John_Galt]

Personally, I don't believe women are capable of unconditional love, except for their biological children (and even that isn't a guarantee).

I'd love to be proven wrong though.

[MongolianAbroad]

Zero1, nice work on accomplishing what you've accomplished. I've lived in the Philippines as well and I'm working on going back there, this time with the ability to stay permanently.

As far as the girl situation, we all can only see the world through our own lens. The forum tends to be very red pill because most of the forum are guys from the West, and by and large, they're interacting with highly individualistic, narcissistic, damaged people.

Everywhere in the world has damaged people, but the Philippines has far more healthy, intact families than the West does, so the character of the women there, overall, is higher, they're simply better people. The good ones have struggles they've overcome, they have siblings and parents to take care of, they work long hours for low pay, and they try to smile and hold on to their self respect while they do these things.

I wouldn't let the West get you jaded, man. Never lose that joyful kid inside of you, because once you do, they've won.

Tread carefully, but don't let that chip on the shoulder that most of us develop in the West as a coping mechanism prevent you from seeing the beauty in real human connections.

We've got to live while there's still living to be done.

[John_Galt]

Damn. Real talk Spaniard.

[CleanSlate]

(11-21-2016 12:05 AM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

Zero1, nice work on accomplishing what you've accomplished. I've lived in the Philippines as well and I'm working on going back there, this time with the ability to stay permanently.

As far as the girl situation, we all can only see the world through our own lens. The forum tends to be very red pill because most of the forum are guys from the West, and by and large, they're interacting with highly individualistic, narcissistic, damaged people.

Everywhere in the world has damaged people, but the Philippines has far more healthy, intact families than the West does, so the character of the women there, overall, is higher, they're simply better people. The good ones have struggles they've overcome, they have siblings and parents to take care of, they work long hours for low pay, and they try to smile and hold on to their self respect while they do these things.

I wouldn't let the West get you jaded, man. Never lose that joyful kid inside of you, because once you do, they've won.

Tread carefully, but don't let that chip on the shoulder that most of us develop in the West as a coping mechanism prevent you seeing the beauty in real human connections.

We've got to live while there's still living to be done.

I would extend that to having a positive attitude on just about everything.

Let's face it. There will always be people who try to drag you down back into their crab buckets. There will always be naysayers to warn you about the perils of the path you're about to embark on.

One thing we tend to forget, and I'm particularly guilty of this, is that there are places in this world that are not at all like the West. If we continue to look at the world through our Western lens, then we will act and react as if we are still in the West. That only cheats us out of rich life experiences and fulfilling human connections, which we could have if only we could remove the Western mindset for once and all.

Easier said than done, I know. Myself, I'm still working on it. One can't undo 30+ years of life experience in just a couple months, but just being consciously and mindfully aware that things work differently in other countries is a start.

[zero1]

(11-21-2016 12:05 AM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

Zero1, nice work on accomplishing what you've accomplished. I've lived in the Philippines as well and I'm working on going back there, this time with the ability to stay permanently.

As far as the girl situation, we all can only see the world through our own lens. The forum tends to be very red pill because most of the forum are guys from the West, and by and large, they're interacting with highly individualistic, narcissistic, damaged people.

Everywhere in the world has damaged people, but the Philippines has far more healthy, intact families than the West does, so the character of the women there, overall, is higher, they're simply better people. The good ones have struggles they've overcome, they have siblings and parents to take care of, they work long hours for low pay, and they try to smile and hold on to their self respect while they do these things.

I wouldn't let the West get you jaded, man. Never lose that joyful kid inside of you, because once you do, they've won.

Tread carefully, but don't let that chip on the shoulder that most of us develop in the West as a coping mechanism prevent you from seeing the beauty in real human connections.

We've got to live while there's still living to be done.

Awesome advice. I'm really grateful to this country actually, the women here, for showing how different they can be to a place like Australia.

[John_Galt]

What's really important to take away from all this, in my opinion, is what is said above, of course, but also: What do you want? Do you WANT a wife? Do you want kids? If not, it's all irreverent. If you do want those things, well, then TEST TEST TEST the girl, but if she passes with flying colors, don't let your lens hold you back.

[brick tamland]

Pondering NAWALT / AWALT is not that important in your context, since you are clearly outside Western society, which is just a frame of reference for comparison purposes with these new surroundings.
Just be glad that you are meeting women with this type of character and who still believe in being virtuous. I wouldn't know where to start looking for them where I live. You might just be on a hot streak, so make the most of it. Don't take it for granted.

[eddie_7]

(11-20-2016 11:28 PM)John_Galt Wrote:  

Personally, I don't believe women are capable of unconditional love, except for their biological children (and even that isn't a guarantee).

I'd love to be proven wrong though.

When I was being introduced to the manosphere, I did indeed struggle with this idea that a woman's love is conditional however I think it depends on how you define love.

If you think of love as an active willing of the good of the other person rather than romantic love and the associated dopamine/chemicals associated with it then I think there is hope that some people are indeed capable of this type of love. I do think that this type of love is hard to cultivate since it involves being selfless and actively going against the grain so to speak in the face of all reasons to believe the recipient of such love is unworthy to receive it. I think this type of love is very different(and a far far rarer kind) to romantic love which is instead quite involuntary i.e the warm fuzzy feelings a woman has for a high value "alpha" male is automatic and is not consciously cultivated. It seems like in this case the woman is loving the opportunity to being with an "alpha male" and loves/enjoys the feelings it invokes inside of her rather than selflessly willing the good of the man himself. It's just there and once its gone its gone thus the manosphere quote "you can't negotiate desire".

Take for instance the hypothetical case in which a man enters into an LTR with a high quality female ie with the desired traits of being feminine, sweet, supportive and takes care of her man etc etc. One day the girlfriend becomes morbidly obese, lazy, hostile towards the man's goals/aspirations, nagging and starts arguments and incites drama in the relationship for the sheer sake of it. If the man has kept his SMV high, he can very easily get a better woman to replace his current girl. In his eyes there is no external reason not to, however if he has an internally generated love i.e he actively wills the good of the girl regardless of how she and her behaviour has changed; he might fight the desire to simply dump her to the curb. He might instead choose to stick with her and lead her to become the woman she was before.
Take another hypothetical case in which the scripts are flipped. In an otherwise healthy and stable LTR the man become a supplicating beta male who has no goals and puts the girl on a pedestal, while the woman retains her value. The woman's hypergamous instincts will inevitably signal to her to immediately leave the man in disgust and play her cards to latch onto the highest value man she can obtain through her perceived SMV. If however she really does care about the man and selflessly wills his good she might stick with him then encourage and support him to become a better man and increase his value.
Both the above cases sound idealistic and involve mythical NAWALTS, but dare we hope it can be?

[XXL]

This is classic nature vs nurture thing for me. From nature perspective AWALT is true as all women have the same instinct and sexual needs they want to satisfy no matter what. However another truth is that woman are highly adaptable to an environment, circumstances and customs so they cannot just let go and follow their true feelings all the time as that would ruin their status in society.

(11-20-2016 08:17 PM)zero1 Wrote:  

If AWALT holds, how is it possible that virgins for instance are willing to lose it here (when this trait is so highly valued in the country), even when you make it known to them you're not looking for a LTR and you provide them nothing? One girl I'm seeing now, even when I tell her I'm seeing other girls still and her eyes get teary each time she fails to convince me to "just be a good guy now" - still seems genuinely in-love no matter what I do to push her away or treat her like shit? I know the love from her is real, and I can do anything I want to her.

Those virgins are humans too bro. They might fight with themselves for certain period of time but come on they can't hold it forever. Sooner or later they snap and guy with game is all they need to do it. And it doesn't matter what you provide in exchange. It's a basic human need to fuck. If anything, the more they deny it the more they want it. Then some guy comes in the right moment, takes charge for them and that's how it happens.

(11-20-2016 08:17 PM)zero1 Wrote:  

One girl I'm seeing now, even when I tell her I'm seeing other girls still and her eyes get teary each time she fails to convince me to "just be a good guy now" - still seems genuinely in-love no matter what I do to push her away or treat her like shit? I know the love from her is real, and I can do anything I want to her.

She knows all we'll ever do is fuck, she receives nothing from me, she buys me dinner, cooks, cleans etc, perfect wife material. She just wants to be with me at all costs. She's committed to me whilst I bang other girls, and I know she's not banging other guys from experience.
[/quote]
I think you misunderstand people in general. We're not robots, we're humans man. We're make decisions based on emotions. Especially women. That girl in love with you she's the same. She reacts emotionally toward you. Pushing her away or treating her badly only evoke more contrasting emotions in her and that bond only grows stronger.

(11-20-2016 08:17 PM)zero1 Wrote:  

So my question is, if AWALT truly holds, how is this sort of loyalty possible with a small but nevertheless apparent minority of girls? Is AWALT more applicable to feminist countries?

To me this comes down to the environment they live in and upbringing. Like you said:

after observing a lot of these girls who go overseas and come back to family after a year or so, a small minority of them don't develop the typical slutty tendencies inherent in the west. These girls are almost always from smaller cities outside manila where they're brought up well"

They are mentally different. Some of those differences are cultural, some are direct results of upbringing, some are byproduct of value system of their environment they were raised in. It's like comparing Ukrainians and Americans. Even though they are still women the differences in mindset, attitude, value system and worldview are real and tangible and play a big role in seduction.


That's just my opinion. AWALT is true but there are other factors in play that determine women's behavior. Same thing applies to men. We want to bang every hot girl without protection so ALL MEN ARE LIKE THAT. But do we actually do it? Well sometimes yes but not every time. So is AMALT true or not?