[Leonard D Neubache]

Options 2 and 4 are climbing while 5 remains steady. Of course the poll is clumsy like most polls are. There is bound to be a mix, at least in the short term.

I don't know about the rest of you, but for me this whole thing is dredging up some serious lizard brain real-time-strategy gaming PTSD.

[Vicious]

The actual material for building the wall is not the main cost, it's the infrastructure that has to support it. To reach some of the completely remote areas of the Mexican border hundreds of miles of roads have to be built along with power and water lines. That's not going to stop at chump change. And that's not even getting into maintenance.

The point seems to be moot however as the latest indications in the news seems to be that Trump will drop the wall from the agenda.

[Genghis Khan]

(11-13-2016 07:36 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

The actual material for building the wall is not the main cost, it's the infrastructure that has to support it. To reach some of the completely remote areas of the Mexican border hundreds of miles of roads have to be built along with power and water lines. That's not going to stop at chump change. And that's not even getting into maintenance.

The point seems to be moot however as the latest indications in the news seems to be that Trump will drop the wall from the agenda.

I don't trust the news. I've been seeing articles on how Trump is secretly a liberal that duped the entire Republican party. Of course, it's foolish to think Trump can implement every single of his campaign promises. But the wall is a big one. And as long as it's still the first point of his 10 point plan to put America first, I'm not going to believe anything the MSM has to say about Trump's Wall:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/immigration/

Quote:

Donald J. Trump’s 10 Point Plan to Put America First

1. Begin working on an impenetrable physical wall on the southern border, on day one. Mexico will pay for the wall.

I don't know if Trump will build the wall or not, but I try my best not to forget that for the next 4-8 years the (liberal) media is going to go all-out attacking Trump and demoralizing his base.

[redpillage]

(11-12-2016 11:25 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

Wake the fuck up. We were this close to total catastrophe just a few days ago, due primarily to demographic transformation. Now is the time to be kicking as many foreigners out as possible, by hook or by crook if necessary. Deport them if they're illegals. Cancel their visas if they're here on a temporary basis but on a track to permanent status and eventual citizenship/voting. Pay the ones who have green cards already to relinquish them and GTFO whence they came. We may not be able to avert eventual minority status and the inevitable oppression that will follow once that status is reached, but we can at least try and delay it as long as possible.

But for fucks sake don't make it easier for them to get in here. When the Johnny Come Lately 's vote themselves your house, your paycheck, and your wife, are you really gonna be relieved that at least they put themselves in that position "legally?"

WTF?? I myself used to be an immigrant and came to the United States as it was a beacon of freedom and opportunity. I did everything by the book, went through the immigration process, hired attorneys, paid a shitload of money, and waited, and waited, and waited. Eventually I got my green card and a few years later I was elated to get the opportunity to become an American citizen. I NEVER took a dime from social services and contributed from day one.

I had been under the impression that we were talking about illegal immigration and not about legal immigration. You guys have no idea how difficult LEGAL immigration actually is. I still have the stack of documents that I had to fill out during my naturalization process - it was extensive. FBI check, health screening including HIV test, financial references, personal references, family records, etc. etc. etc. It's not like I walked across the border and was handed a green card, folks. All in all the entire process took me one decade, and I'm a European which obviously gave me certain cultural/educational advantages.

I am back in Europe now but if I had a choice I would give up my first passport in order to keep my American one, especially now that Trump has taken office. I love America and I want to see it succeed. Although I can understand your anger I would suggest that we don't throw out the baby with the bath water. There is nothing wrong at all with LEGAL CONTROLLED immigration. After all you yourself probably would appreciate being able to legally live and work in other nations at some point in your life.

BTW, I don't have any problem with anyone who abides by the law, works hard, pays taxes, no matter which skin color or origin. In the case of Muslims each applicant would have to prove beyond doubt that they do not believe in Sharia law and that the civil laws of the United States are the superior and only laws permitted in our nation. Any Muslims found to practice Sharia law in any way would face instant deportation.

FWIW I am very disappointed to see his comment being upvoted by several RVF members several of who I had come to appreciate and respect over the past few years. If this forum is turning into the second coming of the Nazi party** however then I may probably just take my leave.

** Apologies - poor choice of words. But I'll let it stand for full disclosure - my point is that we don't want to push into extremes in all the excitement.

[MMM]

Even if the wall gets built, we will still have to deal with the tunnel diggers. See, i.e., the tunnel smugglers in the Gaza Strip. It's literally whack a mole.

[I DIDN'T KILL MY WIFE]

'Tis the season of walls! Look at this humble yet effective wall going up in Bavaria, Germany to shield local residents from newly constructed refugee camps.

[Horus]

(11-13-2016 08:04 AM)MMM Wrote:  

Even if the wall gets built, we will still have to deal with the tunnel diggers. See, i.e., the tunnel smugglers in the Gaza Strip. It's literally whack a mole.

The Israelis are getting REALLY good at detecting Hamas tunnels, and I'm sure that a lot of the technology to do so (or at least the funding) came from the Americans.

[Genghis Khan]

(11-13-2016 07:55 AM)redpillage Wrote:  

(11-12-2016 11:25 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

Wake the fuck up. We were this close to total catastrophe just a few days ago, due primarily to demographic transformation. Now is the time to be kicking as many foreigners out as possible, by hook or by crook if necessary. Deport them if they're illegals. Cancel their visas if they're here on a temporary basis but on a track to permanent status and eventual citizenship/voting. Pay the ones who have green cards already to relinquish them and GTFO whence they came. We may not be able to avert eventual minority status and the inevitable oppression that will follow once that status is reached, but we can at least try and delay it as long as possible.

But for fucks sake don't make it easier for them to get in here. When the Johnny Come Lately 's vote themselves your house, your paycheck, and your wife, are you really gonna be relieved that at least they put themselves in that position "legally?"

WTF?? I myself used to be an immigrant and came to the United States as it was a beacon of freedom and opportunity. I did everything by the book, went through the immigration process, hired attorneys, paid a shitload of money, and waited, and waited, and waited. Eventually I got my green card and a few years later I was elated to get the opportunity to become an American citizen. I NEVER took a dime from social services and contributed from day one.

I am back in Europe now but if I had a choice I would give up my first passport in order to keep my American one, especially now that Trump has taken office. I love America and I want to see it succeed. Although I can understand your anger I would suggest that we don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

I'm an immigrant too. But I get the sentiment. For many Americans, it isn't so much about doing it by the book or not, it's about demographics. Immigration isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it needs to happen slowly, with enough time for the migrating population to assimilate to a point of no distinction. Over the span of decades, if not centuries, you ideally get people who are fully assimilated.

Demographics in the United States is a real concern (and I say this as an Indian man). Ann Coulter mentioned this might be the last time Republicans are voted into the White House. The harsh reality is that the US needs to drastically decrease immigration. I look at my 2nd generation Indian American friends and they are a threat to the United States. I've said this in other threads, but in our blind desire to be American we've adopted the easy path to Americanization: anyone can be an American, regardless of beliefs, customs, religion or other important aspects of a healthy nationhood. The hard path (which would take a few generations) is complete assimilation with no loyalty or connection to the motherland.

Immigrants and their children vote overwhelmingly for the Democratic Party. There are parts of the alt-right clamoring to strip every post-1965 immigrant and their descendants of US citizenship. I think that might go too far. But the underlying premise is accurate: the multiculturism and tribalism we're seeing due to an enormous amount of immigration in the United States are not going to bode well for the nation. A healthy nation needs a strong national cultural (and religious) identity. You can't have that with every fucking minority in the US holding on dearly to its ancestral culture.

[RedPillUK]

(11-13-2016 07:55 AM)redpillage Wrote:  

(11-12-2016 11:25 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

Wake the fuck up. We were this close to total catastrophe just a few days ago, due primarily to demographic transformation. Now is the time to be kicking as many foreigners out as possible, by hook or by crook if necessary. Deport them if they're illegals. Cancel their visas if they're here on a temporary basis but on a track to permanent status and eventual citizenship/voting. Pay the ones who have green cards already to relinquish them and GTFO whence they came. We may not be able to avert eventual minority status and the inevitable oppression that will follow once that status is reached, but we can at least try and delay it as long as possible.

But for fucks sake don't make it easier for them to get in here. When the Johnny Come Lately 's vote themselves your house, your paycheck, and your wife, are you really gonna be relieved that at least they put themselves in that position "legally?"

WTF?? I myself used to be an immigrant and came to the United States as it was a beacon of freedom and opportunity. I did everything by the book, went through the immigration process, hired attorneys, paid a shitload of money, and waited, and waited, and waited. Eventually I got my green card and a few years later I was elated to get the opportunity to become an American citizen. I NEVER took a dime from social services and contributed from day one.

I had been under the impression that we were talking about illegal immigration and not about legal immigration. You guys have no idea how difficult LEGAL immigration actually is. I still have the stack of documents that I had to fill out during my naturalization process - it was extensive. FBI check, health screening including HIV test, financial references, personal references, family records, etc. etc. etc. It's not like I walked across the border and was handed a green card, folks. All in all the entire process took me one decade, and I'm a European which obviously gave me certain cultural/educational advantages.

I am back in Europe now but if I had a choice I would give up my first passport in order to keep my American one, especially now that Trump has taken office. I love America and I want to see it succeed. Although I can understand your anger I would suggest that we don't throw out the baby with the bath water. There is nothing wrong at all with LEGAL CONTROLLED immigration. After all you yourself probably would appreciate being able to legally live and work in other nations at some point in your life.

BTW, I don't have any problem with anyone who abides by the law, works hard, pays taxes, no matter which skin color or origin. In the case of Muslims each applicant would have to prove beyond doubt that they do not believe in Sharia law and that the civil laws of the United States are the superior and only laws permitted in our nation. Any Muslims found to practice Sharia law in any way would face instant deportation.

FWIW I am very disappointed to see his comment being upvoted by several RVF members several of who I had come to appreciate and respect over the past few years. If this forum is turning into the second coming of the Nazi party however then I may probably just take my leave.

Whoah, calm down. Don't take it personally. You are an exception.

But what he says is correct, it's not nazi, don't go throwing that word around here.
Most immigrants don't or can't assimiliate and they breed at a higher rate than natives.
If the US keeps importing immigrants Donald Trump or the republican party is going to really struggle to maintain power. They only just managed it now. They should reduce immigration as much as physically possible and protect the demographics of the country, even then that might not be enough to fix this problem.

Nice username by the way.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Certain types of immigration are beneficial, and it's not hard to pick the earners from the moochers.

The wall is of course only one arrow in the quiver, but it's an important one. Sure, people can tunnel, but it alters the cost/benefit analysis for the task at hand.

Tossing out wild comparisons is unreasonable. It would be like saying there's no point in putting a wall around a prison "because people will just tunnel under it".

As for MSM nonsense about Trump dropping the wall, why would he signal that before he's even been sworn in? It's nonsense.

[Horus]

(11-13-2016 07:55 AM)redpillage Wrote:  

(11-12-2016 11:25 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

Wake the fuck up. We were this close to total catastrophe just a few days ago, due primarily to demographic transformation. Now is the time to be kicking as many foreigners out as possible, by hook or by crook if necessary. Deport them if they're illegals. Cancel their visas if they're here on a temporary basis but on a track to permanent status and eventual citizenship/voting. Pay the ones who have green cards already to relinquish them and GTFO whence they came. We may not be able to avert eventual minority status and the inevitable oppression that will follow once that status is reached, but we can at least try and delay it as long as possible.

But for fucks sake don't make it easier for them to get in here. When the Johnny Come Lately 's vote themselves your house, your paycheck, and your wife, are you really gonna be relieved that at least they put themselves in that position "legally?"

WTF?? I myself used to be an immigrant and came to the United States as it was a beacon of freedom and opportunity. I did everything by the book, went through the immigration process, hired attorneys, paid a shitload of money, and waited, and waited, and waited. Eventually I got my green card and a few years later I was elated to get the opportunity to become an American citizen. I NEVER took a dime from social services and contributed from day one.

I had been under the impression that we were talking about illegal immigration and not about legal immigration. You guys have no idea how difficult LEGAL immigration actually is. I still have the stack of documents that I had to fill out during my naturalization process - it was extensive. FBI check, health screening including HIV test, financial references, personal references, family records, etc. etc. etc. It's not like I walked across the border and was handed a green card, folks. All in all the entire process took me one decade, and I'm a European which obviously gave me certain cultural/educational advantages.

I am back in Europe now but if I had a choice I would give up my first passport in order to keep my American one, especially now that Trump has taken office. I love America and I want to see it succeed. Although I can understand your anger I would suggest that we don't throw out the baby with the bath water. There is nothing wrong at all with LEGAL CONTROLLED immigration. After all you yourself probably would appreciate being able to legally live and work in other nations at some point in your life.

BTW, I don't have any problem with anyone who abides by the law, works hard, pays taxes, no matter which skin color or origin. In the case of Muslims each applicant would have to prove beyond doubt that they do not believe in Sharia law and that the civil laws of the United States are the superior and only laws permitted in our nation. Any Muslims found to practice Sharia law in any way would face instant deportation.

FWIW I am very disappointed to see his comment being upvoted by several RVF members several of who I had come to appreciate and respect over the past few years. If this forum is turning into the second coming of the Nazi party however then I may probably just take my leave.

I would like to see just ONE quote from Trump where he is openly against immigration. The truth is that it doesn't exist. Sure there was one quote from his announcement speech where he refers to Mexicans as rapists, but that was in the context of a much larger speech when he was talking about ILLEGAL immigrants, and in the context of the greater speech this was obvious.

There is a YUGE difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration.

FastEddie, do you really want to live in a country where foreigners are not welcome? You don't want properly vetted foreigners to come and add value to your country?

[Vicious]

Quote:

I don't trust the news.

Newt Gingrich is the source, interviewed by WSJ yesterday (I had the paper copy so I can't link).

[redpillage]

(11-13-2016 08:16 AM)RedPillUK Wrote:  

Whoah, calm down. Don't take it personally. You are an exception.

But what he says is correct, it's not nazi, don't go throwing that word around here.
Most immigrants don't or can't assimiliate and they breed at a higher rate than natives.
If the US keeps importing immigrants Donald Trump or the republican party is going to really struggle to maintain power. They only just managed it now. They should reduce immigration as much as physically possible and protect the demographics of the country, even then that might not be enough to fix this problem.

Nice username by the way.

First up apologies about the Nazi thing - totally inappropriate and it's something SJWs are known to use. That word should have no place here. In my defense - I didn't attack anyone specifically, I was merely warning that we do not want to push into extremes in all the excitement.

Secondly - I am not an exception actually. It is a sad fact that many hard working and law abiding immigrants get a bad rep by the illegals who hop over the border.

[RedPillUK]

In the UK you would be an exception. I never see immigrants assimilate here. Maybe it's the same in the USA or maybe you are correct, I don't know I'm not there. They might be hardworking and law abiding people, but they vote democrat, and change the culture of the country. They need to be severely reduced.

My mum is an immigrant to the UK and I don't get offended if people want to stop ALL immigration, apart from a few important exceptions of course. At the moment things are completely out of control in the UK and the USA.

[XPQ22]

Constructing a physical wall will be extremely costly and time consuming, and might very well be fought legally by constituents of both parties for a long, long time.

It's the 21st century, for probably about 1/10th the cost you could launch an invasion fleet of "security satellites" to monitor every inch of the border on all relevant wavelengths, down to 1 meter resolution. Someone crosses, some machine-learning algorithm detects it, then you go pick 'em up. It might have, I don't know, 75% of the effectiveness of a physical one.

But what could opponents do, sue you on environmental protection arguments for launching satellites?

If you're concerned about the other team re-purposing them for nefarious purposes, just build 'em so they can't have their orbits or field of view modified. Sorry! And if you don't think some future liberal administration won't quietly keep them around once they're up and running, well, I think you're kidding yourself.

[Sam Malone]

[Agastya]

(11-13-2016 08:13 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

I'm an immigrant too. But I get the sentiment. For many Americans, it isn't so much about doing it by the book or not, it's about demographics. Immigration isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it needs to happen slowly, with enough time for the migrating population to assimilate to a point of no distinction. Over the span of decades, if not centuries, you ideally get people who are fully assimilated.

Demographics in the United States is a real concern (and I say this as an Indian man). Ann Coulter mentioned this might be the last time Republicans are voted into the White House. The harsh reality is that the US needs to drastically decrease immigration. I look at my 2nd generation Indian American friends and they are a threat to the United States. I've said this in other threads, but in our blind desire to be American we've adopted the easy path to Americanization: anyone can be an American, regardless of beliefs, customs, religion or other important aspects of a healthy nationhood. The hard path (which would take a few generations) is complete assimilation with no loyalty or connection to the motherland.

Immigrants and their children vote overwhelmingly for the Democratic Party. There are parts of the alt-right clamoring to strip every post-1965 immigrant and their descendants of US citizenship. I think that might go too far. But the underlying premise is accurate: the multiculturism and tribalism we're seeing due to an enormous amount of immigration in the United States are not going to bode well for the nation. A healthy nation needs a strong national cultural (and religious) identity. You can't have that with every fucking minority in the US holding on dearly to its ancestral culture.

I disagree with parts of what you said. For example, I don't think that there's anything wrong with immigrants holding on to some aspects of their parent culture. I'm Indian-American, I love listening to Indian music and reading about Indian history. My best childhood friends are other Indian-Americans, our parents are all successful computer engineers, we generally live pretty healthy lives and do right by the laws of the country. I don't think second-generation immigrants are America's main cultural flaw at the moment, it's the proliferation of third-wave feminism and political correctness coupled with the breakdown of the family.

I completely agree, however, that we need to scale back the number of immigrants that America accepts at the moment.

I'm curious, why do you think that your Indian friends are harmful to the U.S? Is it because of any innate cultural characteristics, or is it because they're libtards? I'd understand where you're coming from its the latter, but then that's because they're libtards, not because they come from an immigrant background.

[Enoch]

A wall is many times cheaper than all of the negative externalities illegal immigrants bring. A fraction of the cost. Just think about it.

Welfare
Crime
Drugs
Police Resources
Emergency Rooms
Depressed wages for Americans.

I could go on.

[redpillage]

(11-13-2016 09:26 AM)Sam Malone Wrote:  

NOPE NOPE NOPE - nobody here is questioning the wall. The higher the better!! I want those Ryan eating bears!

[Moto]

Your post got me thinking, which American culture are immigrants going to adopt, if they do assimilate? More likely the feminist SJW culture at this point. However more than expected were secretly, silently on the Trump train. The country needs latino mashismo, and Arab women submissiveness (if we were actually importing women), and so on, fresh blood, to save itself from a cancer.

(11-13-2016 10:19 AM)Agastya Wrote:  

(11-13-2016 08:13 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

I'm an immigrant too. But I get the sentiment. For many Americans, it isn't so much about doing it by the book or not, it's about demographics. Immigration isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it needs to happen slowly, with enough time for the migrating population to assimilate to a point of no distinction. Over the span of decades, if not centuries, you ideally get people who are fully assimilated.

Demographics in the United States is a real concern (and I say this as an Indian man). Ann Coulter mentioned this might be the last time Republicans are voted into the White House. The harsh reality is that the US needs to drastically decrease immigration. I look at my 2nd generation Indian American friends and they are a threat to the United States. I've said this in other threads, but in our blind desire to be American we've adopted the easy path to Americanization: anyone can be an American, regardless of beliefs, customs, religion or other important aspects of a healthy nationhood. The hard path (which would take a few generations) is complete assimilation with no loyalty or connection to the motherland.

Immigrants and their children vote overwhelmingly for the Democratic Party. There are parts of the alt-right clamoring to strip every post-1965 immigrant and their descendants of US citizenship. I think that might go too far. But the underlying premise is accurate: the multiculturism and tribalism we're seeing due to an enormous amount of immigration in the United States are not going to bode well for the nation. A healthy nation needs a strong national cultural (and religious) identity. You can't have that with every fucking minority in the US holding on dearly to its ancestral culture.

I disagree with parts of what you said. For example, I don't think that there's anything wrong with immigrants holding on to some aspects of their parent culture. I'm Indian-American, I love listening to Indian music and reading about Indian history. My best childhood friends are other Indian-Americans, our parents are all successful computer engineers, we generally live pretty healthy lives and do right by the laws of the country. I don't think second-generation immigrants are America's main cultural flaw at the moment, it's the proliferation of third-wave feminism and political correctness coupled with the breakdown of the family.

I completely agree, however, that we need to scale back the number of immigrants that America accepts at the moment.

I'm curious, why do you think that your Indian friends are harmful to the U.S? Is it because of any innate cultural characteristics, or is it because they're libtards? I'd understand where you're coming from its the latter, but then that's because they're libtards, not because they come from an immigrant background.

[ElFlaco]

(11-13-2016 07:55 AM)redpillage Wrote:  

(11-12-2016 11:25 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

Wake the fuck up. We were this close to total catastrophe just a few days ago, due primarily to demographic transformation. Now is the time to be kicking as many foreigners out as possible, by hook or by crook if necessary. Deport them if they're illegals. Cancel their visas if they're here on a temporary basis but on a track to permanent status and eventual citizenship/voting. Pay the ones who have green cards already to relinquish them and GTFO whence they came. We may not be able to avert eventual minority status and the inevitable oppression that will follow once that status is reached, but we can at least try and delay it as long as possible.

But for fucks sake don't make it easier for them to get in here. When the Johnny Come Lately 's vote themselves your house, your paycheck, and your wife, are you really gonna be relieved that at least they put themselves in that position "legally?"

The criteria for deciding who gets to immigrate (and eventually become a citizen) should depend on what's good for the host country. That's a point that American politicians have completely lost track of (pre-Trump). But there's no reason that we can't make the process both easier and fairer while simultaneously raising the bar for entry, making the requirements more stringent.

One thing the US should do is make the visa application process more respectful. That would buy our government goodwill around the world = reduced terrorism, especially against embassies. To apply for a visa, you pay a lot of non-refundable money, which gets you a two-minute interview with a surly agent. The process has no transparency and is open to abuse, prejudice and the whims of whichever agent you happen to get. Again, improving our image abroad helps us. We should be hard negotiators and defend our interests unapologetically, but when there's something simple we can do to lower antagonism, we should do it.

[weambulance]

Not to sound harsh, but this country doesn't need any immigration right now. We're in the middle of a jobs crisis, why the fuck are we importing more people? Is there a people shortage? No, what there is is a Democrat shortage, and that's why they want to pump in millions of new voters from the third world, most of whom will just go on welfare. I don't want any more welfare Democrats, thanks.

People who are here and who have been naturalized, or are well on their way to naturalization, I don't mind if they stay of course. Naturalized people are citizens, and the for the people in the middle of it it's a long, arduous, expensive process and it would be shitty to jerk the rug out now. But we should stop admitting anyone else into the pipeline post haste.

The culture issue is an important one. If you immigrate here, you should want to be an American more than anything. Not an Indian or Mexican or German living in America. Fuck that! I want immigrants who will forbid their kids to even learn their parents' native language, not parents who are going to try to preserve their native customs in their kids.

I especially do not want even more cultural colonies to form, little enclaves where people from China or Cuba or Whereverthefuckistan enable new immigrants from their home countries to live here as if they never left home, but with all the extra benefits, and they don't even need to learn English. If the home culture is what you want, stay where you fucking are. I seriously doubt anyone claiming it's fine for people to import their cultures into America would be okay with their own home culture being diluted and ultimately destroyed by cultural colonists.

[Fast Eddie]

(11-13-2016 07:55 AM)redpillage Wrote:  

(11-12-2016 11:25 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

Wake the fuck up. We were this close to total catastrophe just a few days ago, due primarily to demographic transformation. Now is the time to be kicking as many foreigners out as possible, by hook or by crook if necessary. Deport them if they're illegals. Cancel their visas if they're here on a temporary basis but on a track to permanent status and eventual citizenship/voting. Pay the ones who have green cards already to relinquish them and GTFO whence they came. We may not be able to avert eventual minority status and the inevitable oppression that will follow once that status is reached, but we can at least try and delay it as long as possible.

But for fucks sake don't make it easier for them to get in here. When the Johnny Come Lately 's vote themselves your house, your paycheck, and your wife, are you really gonna be relieved that at least they put themselves in that position "legally?"

WTF?? I myself used to be an immigrant and came to the United States as it was a beacon of freedom and opportunity. I did everything by the book, went through the immigration process, hired attorneys, paid a shitload of money, and waited, and waited, and waited. Eventually I got my green card and a few years later I was elated to get the opportunity to become an American citizen. I NEVER took a dime from social services and contributed from day one.

I had been under the impression that we were talking about illegal immigration and not about legal immigration. You guys have no idea how difficult LEGAL immigration actually is. I still have the stack of documents that I had to fill out during my naturalization process - it was extensive. FBI check, health screening including HIV test, financial references, personal references, family records, etc. etc. etc. It's not like I walked across the border and was handed a green card, folks. All in all the entire process took me one decade, and I'm a European which obviously gave me certain cultural/educational advantages.

I am back in Europe now but if I had a choice I would give up my first passport in order to keep my American one, especially now that Trump has taken office. I love America and I want to see it succeed. Although I can understand your anger I would suggest that we don't throw out the baby with the bath water. There is nothing wrong at all with LEGAL CONTROLLED immigration. After all you yourself probably would appreciate being able to legally live and work in other nations at some point in your life.

BTW, I don't have any problem with anyone who abides by the law, works hard, pays taxes, no matter which skin color or origin. In the case of Muslims each applicant would have to prove beyond doubt that they do not believe in Sharia law and that the civil laws of the United States are the superior and only laws permitted in our nation. Any Muslims found to practice Sharia law in any way would face instant deportation.

FWIW I am very disappointed to see his comment being upvoted by several RVF members several of who I had come to appreciate and respect over the past few years. If this forum is turning into the second coming of the Nazi party** however then I may probably just take my leave.

** Apologies - poor choice of words. But I'll let it stand for full disclosure - my point is that we don't want to push into extremes in all the excitement.

I don't have time so I'm going to be as reductionist with my reply as possible:

We are clinging on to a demographic balance that is rapidly slipping away from us, with dire and easily foreseeable consequences. All immigration, whether legal or illegal, aids and abets the enemy because better than 80% of our "new citizens" will join the left. They will tip the demographic balance by voting with the rest of the coalition of the fringes to disenfranchise and destroy the current majority of the country.

It's just logic. Of course I'm going to be opposed to immigration, of all kind, when I know that for every friend I'm importing I'm bringing in 4 future enemies who want to vote themselves my shit because privilege. The math just doesn't work out.

And for what it's worth, I myself immigrated to the USA and am a dual citizen. But I can put aside my own personal biases and look at the world from an objective perspective. And objectively speaking, there is no fucking way in which immigration, legal or illegal, is a good thing for the majority of citizens of today's USA.

[DaveR]

(11-13-2016 07:55 AM)redpillage Wrote:  

WTF?? I myself used to be an immigrant and came to the United States as it was a beacon of freedom and opportunity. I did everything by the book, went through the immigration process, hired attorneys, paid a shitload of money, and waited, and waited, and waited. Eventually I got my green card and a few years later I was elated to get the opportunity to become an American citizen. I NEVER took a dime from social services and contributed from day one.

I had been under the impression that we were talking about illegal immigration and not about legal immigration. You guys have no idea how difficult LEGAL immigration actually is. I still have the stack of documents that I had to fill out during my naturalization process - it was extensive. FBI check, health screening including HIV test, financial references, personal references, family records, etc. etc. etc. It's not like I walked across the border and was handed a green card, folks. All in all the entire process took me one decade, and I'm a European which obviously gave me certain cultural/educational advantages.

I see your point, but I don't think it's equally difficult for every class of immigrants. The bar was set high for you because you aren't part of a special minority. If it was difficult for everyone, you wouldn't see so many uneducated, deadbeat immigrants getting through the process.

The SJWs have taken measures to ensure that the process is 'fair' for refugees, asylum seekers, amnestied illegals, etc.

[MOVSM]

(11-13-2016 06:50 AM)Horus Wrote:  

Cost to build is 10 billion - chump change. And according to experts could be completed within a presidentia term - so if Mr Trump is in charge, you could halve that.

Horus,
As I said a previous post, fuck CNN with a nail-studded baseball bat and no lube.
They are intentionally inflating the cost of the wall with their hallucinations that digging must be done and steel beams driven into the ground.

We crisscrossed both Iraq and Afghanistan with t-barriers and hesco walls, difficult terrain or not. Our southern border cannot be that much harder. We copied Israeli wall building experience in mid east, and we can apply it here.

Gentlemen, we can build it. We have the technology. We have the capability to build the world's longest border wall. Trump wall will be that wall. Better than any wall was before. Better, stronger, taller.