[Vaun]

You're 100x better than you were when you started.

Go focus on other things. Take down your online profile, its absolutely the worst way to meet the types of women you want to date. I would venture to say online dating is why you are in the funk you are in. Its easy to get unmotivated when you are waiting on that perfect girl you found online, to respond to your opener.

You need to now focus on yourself. Whats your life's purpose, your goal you are focused on 100%? Now that you dress better, act better, have higher confidence in general, you should use that increased momentum on something more rewarding. Go earn money, and bank that money. Go crush a goal that has been haunting you. Dont focus so much on woman. They will always be there.

I always say to people "use your fitness." In sports, having gone through this myself, when I see someone drop out of an event, or DNF, or fail to give a good performance, I tell them to go find another one ASAP. Lets say you train for a 10K, and in the race you have to drop out right away. You think you wasted all of that time and effort training for that event, and you are bummed. I tell people to get into another race ASAP. Dont let any time go by. Go run another race that next week, or as close to the event as possible. If you dont, you will get fat, and the entire training period will be a total waste of your life.

Dont make this a waste of your life. Use this momentum elsewhere. You know you are better now, expand that energy into other parts of your life. Get a raise, get a new job, start a business, grow a side business you have, get into new social circles, participate in charities in your town, go back to school, etc etc. Do SOMETHING. You will be dressing and acting better now anyways. You are that much more likely to score, when that hottie steps in your direction. And.. you are way more interesting.

My only tactical advice is ditch the online dating. Its an ego stroker for most women, and a lot of women just go on to check out the local dating scene. I would say a small percentage of women on these apps are datable, and even DTF. Especially if you live in a small town, I can imagine its extremely tough.

[XXL]

One big mistake you do is gaming on your own. You learn much slower this way as you're probably not even aware of certain things you do that stand in your way.

I'll give you simple example. I was once with my buddies and I had a bad night. Nothing was clicking. Then one of my bros told me I'm looking down and around a lot instead of keeping proper eye contact. I could not believe it. I would never realize it was about that if I was on my own.

Gaming alone is not good especially when you're still learning first in and outs of game.

[destiny]

(11-12-2016 05:13 PM)XXL Wrote:  

One big mistake you do is gaming on your own. You learn much slower this way as you're probably not even aware of certain things you do that stand in your way.

I'll give you simple example. I was once with my buddies and I had a bad night. Nothing was clicking. Then one of my bros told me I'm looking down and around a lot instead of keeping proper eye contact. I could not believe it. I would never realize it was about that if I was on my own.

Gaming alone is not good especially when you're still learning first in and outs of game.

I tried gaming with wings before. Check out my Riga journal, most of them weren't really helpful and I also met another forum member here a few days ago and the dude bailed on me after I bought him a drink and spending 20 minutes in the club.

All of my friends aren't into gaming and when I took them out with me, they made lame excuses about not approaching and ruined my daygame sessions. Same with nightgame sessions. They would put me down to make themselves feel better because they didn't do anything. Most of the really good guys with women probably wouldn't let me wing with them because they probably don't see me as being able to provide much value to them.

[dknightbro]

I second winging will help your game exponentially IF you find decent wings (they make a legit effort - high skill level is not NECESSARY... I repeat NOT necessary)

I used to roll solo mostly out of lack of seeing how wings could help...but my game leapt bounds after only really 2 wings (not even at the same time)

The bottomline is you CAN improve but you need to remain in the arena and keep trying new methods until you break through your plateau

Getting success with a feminine girl is one of the best motivators...I seriously wouldn't beat myself up nowadays over not getting a Western girl after traveling and knowing what's out there

[Travesty]

Try to start deeply understanding what being cool means to attractive women. A lot of that is oftentimes acting as what guys consider a douchebag which is part true. Self-assurdeness is a key.

You need to see through everyone's persona about what is and isn't cool both in real life and media. Women are Nazis about social awareness and coolness.

Posture, eye contact, style, and voice all play a big role.

[Party Pooper]

(11-10-2016 02:27 PM)destiny Wrote:  

I'm getting extremely frustrated with learning game and dating. I've been going out practically everyday doing daygame, nightgame, online, etc and gotten no where. Online is probably the worst. I paid for a photographer to get some professional photos done and it hasn't yielded much results. I've maybe gotten 1 more extra match on tinder since putting in the new profile pics. I get girls unmatching me soon after getting a match for no reason while others don't even answer my messages. I mean what the hell is the point of even matching with me then? Its really fucking depressing to be putting in all of that work and have nothing to show for you, yet you walk around the city and you see couples walking hand in hand or guys who you know just get laid through social circle without much work. The grind and pain threshold is just too much now.

I don't know what the hell to do anymore. I'm exhausted and pissed at the same time and my fucking friends are telling me I have no game and should just quit while the either go for fatties or get girls handed to them from social circle. This journey has been extremely humiliating and humbling at the same time. I don't think I've ever felt like this every before in my life. I just don't understand why I can't just get it! The secret to solving this part of my life that I've longed for a very very long time to fix and despite my efforts and continued efforts each day brushing off the bruise of the previous day's failure, I just can't do it. I just don't understand why I must go through this. I don't consider myself a terrible person but why am I always the one who must endure this pain while others have such easier lives?

Then do this. It still beats jerking off.

Nothing boosts your confidence more than fucking.

Having a steady supply of sex will erase most if not all needyness.

Then move on to hotter girls from there.

[destiny]

(11-13-2016 01:47 AM)Party Pooper Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 02:27 PM)destiny Wrote:  

I'm getting extremely frustrated with learning game and dating. I've been going out practically everyday doing daygame, nightgame, online, etc and gotten no where. Online is probably the worst. I paid for a photographer to get some professional photos done and it hasn't yielded much results. I've maybe gotten 1 more extra match on tinder since putting in the new profile pics. I get girls unmatching me soon after getting a match for no reason while others don't even answer my messages. I mean what the hell is the point of even matching with me then? Its really fucking depressing to be putting in all of that work and have nothing to show for you, yet you walk around the city and you see couples walking hand in hand or guys who you know just get laid through social circle without much work. The grind and pain threshold is just too much now.

I don't know what the hell to do anymore. I'm exhausted and pissed at the same time and my fucking friends are telling me I have no game and should just quit while the either go for fatties or get girls handed to them from social circle. This journey has been extremely humiliating and humbling at the same time. I don't think I've ever felt like this every before in my life. I just don't understand why I can't just get it! The secret to solving this part of my life that I've longed for a very very long time to fix and despite my efforts and continued efforts each day brushing off the bruise of the previous day's failure, I just can't do it. I just don't understand why I must go through this. I don't consider myself a terrible person but why am I always the one who must endure this pain while others have such easier lives?

Then do this. It still beats jerking off.

Nothing boosts your confidence more than fucking.

Having a steady supply of sex will erase most if not all needyness.

Then move on to hotter girls from there.

I can't do fatties. I remember one time I made out with a fattie at a club, I was nearly ready to throw up and felt like shit afterwards. If it was a normal average girl it probably would not have been a problem but only being able to get with a fatty just makes my self worth feel even worse.

[Conquistador]

While I don't necessarily condone fucking fatties, your comment all but shows that you are attaching your worth to the women you (or don't in this case) fuck. Like others have said, women are sensing your desperation.

[Off The Reservation]

(11-12-2016 05:21 PM)destiny Wrote:  

(11-12-2016 05:13 PM)XXL Wrote:  

One big mistake you do is gaming on your own. You learn much slower this way as you're probably not even aware of certain things you do that stand in your way.

I'll give you simple example. I was once with my buddies and I had a bad night. Nothing was clicking. Then one of my bros told me I'm looking down and around a lot instead of keeping proper eye contact. I could not believe it. I would never realize it was about that if I was on my own.

Gaming alone is not good especially when you're still learning first in and outs of game.

I tried gaming with wings before. Check out my Riga journal, most of them weren't really helpful and I also met another forum member here a few days ago and the dude bailed on me after I bought him a drink and spending 20 minutes in the club.

All of my friends aren't into gaming and when I took them out with me, they made lame excuses about not approaching and ruined my daygame sessions. Same with nightgame sessions. They would put me down to make themselves feel better because they didn't do anything. Most of the really good guys with women probably wouldn't let me wing with them because they probably don't see me as being able to provide much value to them.

We ruin our own approaches usually, not others.

Game cannot be practiced like it is a rote set of instructions backed by a misery-unless-i-succeed attitude.

[kirdiesel]

I have chimed in your thread and followed it closely... I have been in the game in excess of 10 years and I can tell you the following.

From what I have gathered you are Asian and targeting white chicks. Interracial dating is HARD AS FUCK online. I am black and date white and I only pull garbage (well in my opinion) from online. With over 10 years in the game I still havent cracked this. However! I pull 10x more and better quality in person so I use that.

I know you are traveling so you have to run online, day game and night game (If i were you I would do the same thing)

When you get back home do the following.

1. Focus on ONE ASPECT of game at a time. Pick your poison... Be it day game or night game and FOCUS ONLY on that. Master ONE at a time. Everyone is not good at everything. I am the best at night game, dates, day game then online. See how I can tell you exactly where i stand and where? You need to be able to do that.

2. Read the books the guys have mentioned to you.

I know this might be over simplified but game is linear:

- Approach/Attraction/Conversation/Number Close/
- Text Game/Setup Date
- Date/More Attraction/Comfort
- Seduction
- Actual Sex

If you are fucking up at any time in this order.. you have reached a sticking point and you have to go back a step figure out what the fuck you did wrong and try and crack it. Try something else next time. Try to game and pay attention to what you are doing and see how girls react to different things.


A recent example of what happened to me:

Theres more details to this but long story short.....I was running night game on a girl I know from my social circle/facebook and I got her back to my place on Friday night and while in bed she wouldn't go past fingering or anything like that. We didn't have much kissing or anything like that. She ended up just telling me no and it wasn't a not right now kind of thing... just no.

Guess what? I thought about it and i realized I didn't run my seduction game properly in the club. The sexual tension wasn't high enough because I knew she was staying over and I thought it was a given that we would fuck. I got caught slipping. I didn't make her hot enough in the club and thus when we got back to my apartment she wasn't dying to rip my clothes off and fuck me. We were kissing in the club a little bit but I felt I could have done a better job. Fail on my part.

I diagnosed it by going back a step. You have to learn how to do this.

So if you aren't going forward its because you didn't hit something right.

Don't get frustrated and hang in there.... I wasn't doing so well here in Germany since i moved from the US a while back and this year I had a BREAKOUT year in terms of closes in quality. It gets better with practice. I'm over 10 years in this in total and I still have issues (albeit small) that need fixing.

[Off The Reservation]

(11-13-2016 08:04 PM)kirdiesel Wrote:  

I have chimed in your thread and followed it closely... I have been in the game in excess of 10 years and I can tell you the following.

From what I have gathered you are Asian and targeting white chicks. Interracial dating is HARD AS FUCK online. I am black and date white and I only pull garbage (well in my opinion) from online. With over 10 years in the game I still havent cracked this. However! I pull 10x more and better quality in person so I use that.

I know you are traveling so you have to run online, day game and night game (If i were you I would do the same thing)

When you get back home do the following.

1. Focus on ONE ASPECT of game at a time. Pick your poison... Be it day game or night game and FOCUS ONLY on that. Master ONE at a time. Everyone is not good at everything. I am the best at night game, dates, day game then online. See how I can tell you exactly where i stand and where? You need to be able to do that.

2. Read the books the guys have mentioned to you.

I know this might be over simplified but game is linear:

- Approach/Attraction/Conversation/Number Close/
- Text Game/Setup Date
- Date/More Attraction/Comfort
- Seduction
- Actual Sex

If you are fucking up at any time in this order.. you have reached a sticking point and you have to go back a step figure out what the fuck you did wrong and try and crack it. Try something else next time. Try to game and pay attention to what you are doing and see how girls react to different things.


A recent example of what happened to me:

Theres more details to this but long story short.....I was running night game on a girl I know from my social circle/facebook and I got her back to my place on Friday night and while in bed she wouldn't go past fingering or anything like that. We didn't have much kissing or anything like that. She ended up just telling me no and it wasn't a not right now kind of thing... just no.

Guess what? I thought about it and i realized I didn't run my seduction game properly in the club. The sexual tension wasn't high enough because I knew she was staying over and I thought it was a given that we would fuck. I got caught slipping. I didn't make her hot enough in the club and thus when we got back to my apartment she wasn't dying to rip my clothes off and fuck me. We were kissing in the club a little bit but I felt I could have done a better job. Fail on my part.

I diagnosed it by going back a step. You have to learn how to do this.

So if you aren't going forward its because you didn't hit something right.

Don't get frustrated and hang in there.... I wasn't doing so well here in Germany since i moved from the US a while back and this year I had a BREAKOUT year in terms of closes in quality. It gets better with practice. I'm over 10 years in this in total and I still have issues (albeit small) that need fixing.

^ superb post kirdiesel

Being able to look at yourself and your performance honestly is a rare skill.

You actually just answered for me a hotel room door failure I have been over analyzing and couldn't look past the "success" of very visibly bringing a 9 and only one of a few girls at a conference out of the hotel bar and upstairs at midnight in front of all the conference goers, of which I was not a part, having just seen the girl hanging with group and broke into a group of five guys and her to approach, which ended up in some bs kissing and heres my number / i have a 6 am flight. kirdiesel answered my question, i didnt make her hot enough to spend the night and not sleep vs just been seen leaving and then end it at the door.

[kirdiesel]

(11-13-2016 08:22 PM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  

(11-13-2016 08:04 PM)kirdiesel Wrote:  

I have chimed in your thread and followed it closely... I have been in the game in excess of 10 years and I can tell you the following.

From what I have gathered you are Asian and targeting white chicks. Interracial dating is HARD AS FUCK online. I am black and date white and I only pull garbage (well in my opinion) from online. With over 10 years in the game I still havent cracked this. However! I pull 10x more and better quality in person so I use that.

I know you are traveling so you have to run online, day game and night game (If i were you I would do the same thing)

When you get back home do the following.

1. Focus on ONE ASPECT of game at a time. Pick your poison... Be it day game or night game and FOCUS ONLY on that. Master ONE at a time. Everyone is not good at everything. I am the best at night game, dates, day game then online. See how I can tell you exactly where i stand and where? You need to be able to do that.

2. Read the books the guys have mentioned to you.

I know this might be over simplified but game is linear:

- Approach/Attraction/Conversation/Number Close/
- Text Game/Setup Date
- Date/More Attraction/Comfort
- Seduction
- Actual Sex

If you are fucking up at any time in this order.. you have reached a sticking point and you have to go back a step figure out what the fuck you did wrong and try and crack it. Try something else next time. Try to game and pay attention to what you are doing and see how girls react to different things.


A recent example of what happened to me:

Theres more details to this but long story short.....I was running night game on a girl I know from my social circle/facebook and I got her back to my place on Friday night and while in bed she wouldn't go past fingering or anything like that. We didn't have much kissing or anything like that. She ended up just telling me no and it wasn't a not right now kind of thing... just no.

Guess what? I thought about it and i realized I didn't run my seduction game properly in the club. The sexual tension wasn't high enough because I knew she was staying over and I thought it was a given that we would fuck. I got caught slipping. I didn't make her hot enough in the club and thus when we got back to my apartment she wasn't dying to rip my clothes off and fuck me. We were kissing in the club a little bit but I felt I could have done a better job. Fail on my part.

I diagnosed it by going back a step. You have to learn how to do this.

So if you aren't going forward its because you didn't hit something right.

Don't get frustrated and hang in there.... I wasn't doing so well here in Germany since i moved from the US a while back and this year I had a BREAKOUT year in terms of closes in quality. It gets better with practice. I'm over 10 years in this in total and I still have issues (albeit small) that need fixing.

^ superb post kirdiesel

Being able to look at yourself and your performance honestly is a rare skill.

You actually just answered for me a hotel room door failure I have been over analyzing and couldn't look past the "success" of very visibly bringing a 9 and only one of a few girls at a conference out of the hotel bar and upstairs at midnight in front of all the conference goers, of which I was not a part, having just seen the girl hanging with group and broke into a group of five guys and her to approach, which ended up in some bs kissing and heres my number / i have a 6 am flight. kirdiesel answered my question, i didnt make her hot enough to spend the night and not sleep vs just been seen leaving and then end it at the door.

Thanks bro. You HAVE to be able to look back at yourself (even with success), rate and analyze to make progress.

Not doing this leads to a loop (which destiny is stuck in) and you keep making the same mistakes over and over again and expecting a different result.

More examples of that game theory:

Last minute resistance = Attraction and Seduction but not enough comfort

Comfort + Attraction but no Seduction = Compliance from the woman but no sex

Theres alot more of these examples in the Books described above.

[destiny]

(11-13-2016 08:04 PM)kirdiesel Wrote:  

I have chimed in your thread and followed it closely... I have been in the game in excess of 10 years and I can tell you the following.

From what I have gathered you are Asian and targeting white chicks. Interracial dating is HARD AS FUCK online. I am black and date white and I only pull garbage (well in my opinion) from online. With over 10 years in the game I still havent cracked this. However! I pull 10x more and better quality in person so I use that.

I know you are traveling so you have to run online, day game and night game (If i were you I would do the same thing)

When you get back home do the following.

1. Focus on ONE ASPECT of game at a time. Pick your poison... Be it day game or night game and FOCUS ONLY on that. Master ONE at a time. Everyone is not good at everything. I am the best at night game, dates, day game then online. See how I can tell you exactly where i stand and where? You need to be able to do that.

2. Read the books the guys have mentioned to you.

I know this might be over simplified but game is linear:

- Approach/Attraction/Conversation/Number Close/
- Text Game/Setup Date
- Date/More Attraction/Comfort
- Seduction
- Actual Sex

If you are fucking up at any time in this order.. you have reached a sticking point and you have to go back a step figure out what the fuck you did wrong and try and crack it. Try something else next time. Try to game and pay attention to what you are doing and see how girls react to different things.


A recent example of what happened to me:

Theres more details to this but long story short.....I was running night game on a girl I know from my social circle/facebook and I got her back to my place on Friday night and while in bed she wouldn't go past fingering or anything like that. We didn't have much kissing or anything like that. She ended up just telling me no and it wasn't a not right now kind of thing... just no.

Guess what? I thought about it and i realized I didn't run my seduction game properly in the club. The sexual tension wasn't high enough because I knew she was staying over and I thought it was a given that we would fuck. I got caught slipping. I didn't make her hot enough in the club and thus when we got back to my apartment she wasn't dying to rip my clothes off and fuck me. We were kissing in the club a little bit but I felt I could have done a better job. Fail on my part.

I diagnosed it by going back a step. You have to learn how to do this.

So if you aren't going forward its because you didn't hit something right.

Don't get frustrated and hang in there.... I wasn't doing so well here in Germany since i moved from the US a while back and this year I had a BREAKOUT year in terms of closes in quality. It gets better with practice. I'm over 10 years in this in total and I still have issues (albeit small) that need fixing.

Thanks for following my journal on my travel journal bro. As you've probably already figured out, I seem to be stuck in the area of getting the number but not being able to setup day 2's or messing up my day 2's. I know for my day 2's I'm not escalating enough and I'm not quite sure how to make the date more sexual. I've already incorporated touching and getting into her personal space and never sitting across from her, but don't really know how to progress things further. As for my number closes, I'm not quite sure what the hell is going on there neither. It would seem that we are having a great conversation at least I think so, and most of my sets that I hook are at least 10-15 minutes long so I believe rapport is there already, but getting them out for another day is another story. I went out with a wing yesterday and had him observe my non-verbals from away. He mentioned that my non-verbals were good and that I was close to her when we were talking.

[Dalaran1991]

Goddamn why didnt you say it sooner. Being Asian targeting white chicks is hard. Extremely hard to pull quality outside of social circle.

I do okay myself and sometimes score quality, but its all through social circle, or some sort of it. I never got anything through either cold approaching or online game. I do have an asian bro killing it, but had he been white he would be slaughtering it.

Not gonna race-bitch here, but you have to be aware that being Asian you have another barrier you have to break through. I made a thread on it a few years ago, people have a lot of good advice.

Most guys' attitude are either: 1) own your race, be proud of it 2) dont even take your race into account, game the girl as if she is a normal girl

There are pros and cons with each style. You have to figure out what style suit you the best.

If you dont know how to progress sexually, that means you have yet to understand the nature of seduction. Thats why your number closes dont work. Most number closes dont work anyway.

I'll let the pros explain this stuff better than I can. I suggest one thing you can do right away to improve your odds: join social circles that are sexual in nature. Build your life around it.

I would never succeed in game if I wasn't a dancer in the first place. Dancing has been around for as long as men have been wanting to stick it in women, long before people could even verbalize "game". Its also a fun activity where you make lots of friends.

Friends are important. Social circles are important. If you are not white, in most cases you have less social proof. So you need to build that up.

Having venues on locked down, being popular among your friends, treat them well, have connections... Those make game.

Once you have that one foot in the door, it becomes easier. You will also learn how to flow better in social situations.

Do try out social circles for a while, at this point you have nothing to lose. You already did quite a lot with cold approaching and night game.

Failing that, head to the Philippines.

If thegreenman can do it, you can do it.

Good luck,

[kirdiesel]

(11-14-2016 06:11 AM)destiny Wrote:  

(11-13-2016 08:04 PM)kirdiesel Wrote:  

I have chimed in your thread and followed it closely... I have been in the game in excess of 10 years and I can tell you the following.

From what I have gathered you are Asian and targeting white chicks. Interracial dating is HARD AS FUCK online. I am black and date white and I only pull garbage (well in my opinion) from online. With over 10 years in the game I still havent cracked this. However! I pull 10x more and better quality in person so I use that.

I know you are traveling so you have to run online, day game and night game (If i were you I would do the same thing)

When you get back home do the following.

1. Focus on ONE ASPECT of game at a time. Pick your poison... Be it day game or night game and FOCUS ONLY on that. Master ONE at a time. Everyone is not good at everything. I am the best at night game, dates, day game then online. See how I can tell you exactly where i stand and where? You need to be able to do that.

2. Read the books the guys have mentioned to you.

I know this might be over simplified but game is linear:

- Approach/Attraction/Conversation/Number Close/
- Text Game/Setup Date
- Date/More Attraction/Comfort
- Seduction
- Actual Sex

If you are fucking up at any time in this order.. you have reached a sticking point and you have to go back a step figure out what the fuck you did wrong and try and crack it. Try something else next time. Try to game and pay attention to what you are doing and see how girls react to different things.


A recent example of what happened to me:

Theres more details to this but long story short.....I was running night game on a girl I know from my social circle/facebook and I got her back to my place on Friday night and while in bed she wouldn't go past fingering or anything like that. We didn't have much kissing or anything like that. She ended up just telling me no and it wasn't a not right now kind of thing... just no.

Guess what? I thought about it and i realized I didn't run my seduction game properly in the club. The sexual tension wasn't high enough because I knew she was staying over and I thought it was a given that we would fuck. I got caught slipping. I didn't make her hot enough in the club and thus when we got back to my apartment she wasn't dying to rip my clothes off and fuck me. We were kissing in the club a little bit but I felt I could have done a better job. Fail on my part.

I diagnosed it by going back a step. You have to learn how to do this.

So if you aren't going forward its because you didn't hit something right.

Don't get frustrated and hang in there.... I wasn't doing so well here in Germany since i moved from the US a while back and this year I had a BREAKOUT year in terms of closes in quality. It gets better with practice. I'm over 10 years in this in total and I still have issues (albeit small) that need fixing.

Thanks for following my journal on my travel journal bro. As you've probably already figured out, I seem to be stuck in the area of getting the number but not being able to setup day 2's or messing up my day 2's. I know for my day 2's I'm not escalating enough and I'm not quite sure how to make the date more sexual. I've already incorporated touching and getting into her personal space and never sitting across from her, but don't really know how to progress things further. As for my number closes, I'm not quite sure what the hell is going on there neither. It would seem that we are having a great conversation at least I think so, and most of my sets that I hook are at least 10-15 minutes long so I believe rapport is there already, but getting them out for another day is another story. I went out with a wing yesterday and had him observe my non-verbals from away. He mentioned that my non-verbals were good and that I was close to her when we were talking.

The problems you are mentioning are 100% normal when you are new.

ONE STEP at a time.

When you meet a girl, have a conversation and grab a number and she doesn't answer or setup a day 2 with you means you fucked up the initial close. Go back and analyze the initial approach and conversation. Tweak your strategy, brainstorm and try again.

If you close properly day 2s are fairly easy to get.

So that means you have to concentrate heavily on approaching and getting attraction.. which will lead to closing solid numbers.

When you start to consistently get day 2s.. then you can start REALLY worrying about why you are losing those day 2s. Small goals go a long way.

Getting attraction is not only with words but also with looks.

You havent confirmed this yet but if you are mainly targeting white chicks attraction is where you will struggle the most. So its imperative that you get on top of your style and fitness game. Asian as well as Black guys both have stigmas to get over and its harder for us when dating outside of our races. Some girls will write you off just for being Asian.

Maybe there is a thread for asian dudes who are after white chicks.. those guys will be able to help you GREATLY.

[destiny]

(11-14-2016 02:58 PM)kirdiesel Wrote:  

(11-14-2016 06:11 AM)destiny Wrote:  

(11-13-2016 08:04 PM)kirdiesel Wrote:  

I have chimed in your thread and followed it closely... I have been in the game in excess of 10 years and I can tell you the following.

From what I have gathered you are Asian and targeting white chicks. Interracial dating is HARD AS FUCK online. I am black and date white and I only pull garbage (well in my opinion) from online. With over 10 years in the game I still havent cracked this. However! I pull 10x more and better quality in person so I use that.

I know you are traveling so you have to run online, day game and night game (If i were you I would do the same thing)

When you get back home do the following.

1. Focus on ONE ASPECT of game at a time. Pick your poison... Be it day game or night game and FOCUS ONLY on that. Master ONE at a time. Everyone is not good at everything. I am the best at night game, dates, day game then online. See how I can tell you exactly where i stand and where? You need to be able to do that.

2. Read the books the guys have mentioned to you.

I know this might be over simplified but game is linear:

- Approach/Attraction/Conversation/Number Close/
- Text Game/Setup Date
- Date/More Attraction/Comfort
- Seduction
- Actual Sex

If you are fucking up at any time in this order.. you have reached a sticking point and you have to go back a step figure out what the fuck you did wrong and try and crack it. Try something else next time. Try to game and pay attention to what you are doing and see how girls react to different things.


A recent example of what happened to me:

Theres more details to this but long story short.....I was running night game on a girl I know from my social circle/facebook and I got her back to my place on Friday night and while in bed she wouldn't go past fingering or anything like that. We didn't have much kissing or anything like that. She ended up just telling me no and it wasn't a not right now kind of thing... just no.

Guess what? I thought about it and i realized I didn't run my seduction game properly in the club. The sexual tension wasn't high enough because I knew she was staying over and I thought it was a given that we would fuck. I got caught slipping. I didn't make her hot enough in the club and thus when we got back to my apartment she wasn't dying to rip my clothes off and fuck me. We were kissing in the club a little bit but I felt I could have done a better job. Fail on my part.

I diagnosed it by going back a step. You have to learn how to do this.

So if you aren't going forward its because you didn't hit something right.

Don't get frustrated and hang in there.... I wasn't doing so well here in Germany since i moved from the US a while back and this year I had a BREAKOUT year in terms of closes in quality. It gets better with practice. I'm over 10 years in this in total and I still have issues (albeit small) that need fixing.

Thanks for following my journal on my travel journal bro. As you've probably already figured out, I seem to be stuck in the area of getting the number but not being able to setup day 2's or messing up my day 2's. I know for my day 2's I'm not escalating enough and I'm not quite sure how to make the date more sexual. I've already incorporated touching and getting into her personal space and never sitting across from her, but don't really know how to progress things further. As for my number closes, I'm not quite sure what the hell is going on there neither. It would seem that we are having a great conversation at least I think so, and most of my sets that I hook are at least 10-15 minutes long so I believe rapport is there already, but getting them out for another day is another story. I went out with a wing yesterday and had him observe my non-verbals from away. He mentioned that my non-verbals were good and that I was close to her when we were talking.

The problems you are mentioning are 100% normal when you are new.

ONE STEP at a time.

When you meet a girl, have a conversation and grab a number and she doesn't answer or setup a day 2 with you means you fucked up the initial close. Go back and analyze the initial approach and conversation. Tweak your strategy, brainstorm and try again.

If you close properly day 2s are fairly easy to get.

So that means you have to concentrate heavily on approaching and getting attraction.. which will lead to closing solid numbers.

When you start to consistently get day 2s.. then you can start REALLY worrying about why you are losing those day 2s. Small goals go a long way.

Getting attraction is not only with words but also with looks.

You havent confirmed this yet but if you are mainly targeting white chicks attraction is where you will struggle the most. So its imperative that you get on top of your style and fitness game. Asian as well as Black guys both have stigmas to get over and its harder for us when dating outside of our races. Some girls will write you off just for being Asian.

Maybe there is a thread for asian dudes who are after white chicks.. those guys will be able to help you GREATLY.

Ya, I think somewhere in the conversation I fucked something up, maybe I stayed in set for too long, maybe I said something stupid, or didn't build up enough comfort, or I didn't convey sexual interest. Yah, being in Europe, I'm only targeting white chicks. I would say my style is on point relative to the local competition. I didn't want to bring up my race and get into the whole because of your race you can't get with so and so chicks. One of my friends was arguing with me about how white chicks don't like asian guys and blah blah blah. I do realize that being Asian, I have to bring more to the table to counter the negative stigmas associated with me.

[dknightbro]

While it's admirable to take a no-excuses attitude, you also need to be realistic

Certain groups of girls are simply just going to be attracted more to a particular type

You CAN try to seduce a girl and invest massive amounts of time and effort but knowing you can do so with a girl of another group (prob hotter too) to me it just doesn't make logical sense much less beating yourself up over it

I take a very practical approach to girls and never take anything personal

I also do not care about being admired or respected by other guys for having "game" so I am free to objectively analyze my situation and how I can best move forward...it doesn't mean I disregard advice from other men (it would be an error to disregard experienced advice), but I customize it for my needs

[destiny]

(11-14-2016 06:54 PM)dknightbro Wrote:  

While it's admirable to take a no-excuses attitude, you also need to be realistic

Certain groups of girls are simply just going to be attracted more to a particular type

You CAN try to seduce a girl and invest massive amounts of time and effort but knowing you can do so with a girl of another group (prob hotter too) to me it just doesn't make logical sense much less beating yourself up over it

I take a very practical approach to girls and never take anything personal

I also do not care about being admired or respected by other guys for having "game" so I am free to objectively analyze my situation and how I can best move forward...it doesn't mean I disregard advice from other men (it would be an error to disregard experienced advice), but I customize it for my needs

So I should just go start dating chicks I feel absolutely no attraction to then? What gives other people the right to go and pick and choose what the want to date while others like me just because of something I have absolutely no control over just go and date a certain ethnicity just because it's easier or because society deems us having to belong together? If I had gone strictly for Asian chicks, we probably wouldn't even be having this thread right now because I wouldn't even have to work for it. I can walk into a room full of Asian chicks and they all go gaga over me just because I don't look anything like a stereotypical Asian guy and I have pale skin and tall, and workout and dress well and have more confidence then 98% of Asian dudes I meet. But I don't want that, I want to be with someone who I actually found attractive and enjoy spending time with. I'm not opposed to putting in the hard work to get what I want, but I am opposed to just quitting and giving up things that I want just because society deems it "the right way."

[destiny]

(11-14-2016 12:16 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Goddamn why didnt you say it sooner. Being Asian targeting white chicks is hard. Extremely hard to pull quality outside of social circle.

I do okay myself and sometimes score quality, but its all through social circle, or some sort of it. I never got anything through either cold approaching or online game. I do have an asian bro killing it, but had he been white he would be slaughtering it.

Not gonna race-bitch here, but you have to be aware that being Asian you have another barrier you have to break through. I made a thread on it a few years ago, people have a lot of good advice.

Most guys' attitude are either: 1) own your race, be proud of it 2) dont even take your race into account, game the girl as if she is a normal girl

There are pros and cons with each style. You have to figure out what style suit you the best.

If you dont know how to progress sexually, that means you have yet to understand the nature of seduction. Thats why your number closes dont work. Most number closes dont work anyway.

I'll let the pros explain this stuff better than I can. I suggest one thing you can do right away to improve your odds: join social circles that are sexual in nature. Build your life around it.

I would never succeed in game if I wasn't a dancer in the first place. Dancing has been around for as long as men have been wanting to stick it in women, long before people could even verbalize "game". Its also a fun activity where you make lots of friends.

Friends are important. Social circles are important. If you are not white, in most cases you have less social proof. So you need to build that up.

Having venues on locked down, being popular among your friends, treat them well, have connections... Those make game.

Once you have that one foot in the door, it becomes easier. You will also learn how to flow better in social situations.

Do try out social circles for a while, at this point you have nothing to lose. You already did quite a lot with cold approaching and night game.

Failing that, head to the Philippines.

If thegreenman can do it, you can do it.

Good luck,

Before I used to buy into the whole "white girls don't like Asian guys" stigma but nowadays it doesn't even cross my mind when I game the girl. I just speak to her as a man to a women, not as an Asian man to a white woman. I realize that in the west, Asian guys have a really bad rep due to hollywood's portrayal of Asian guys which is why I headed to Europe to game instead, hoping that it wouldn't be quite as bad. I actually met a fellow forum member today who is also Asian and it doesn't seem to affect his results as well because he doesn't let it affect him. He's white washed just like me.

As for social circle game, believe me I tried that 1-2 years ago as well. I signed up for several different dance styles hoping to build up a social circle and meet attractive chicks in class, but over 50% of the chicks were east Asians and brown chicks, while the rest were really ugly looking white chicks that no one wanted. I did however, develop a somewhat small social circle within this dance community but ditched it because it was too fobbish for me and there weren't any attractive girls there. Actually like 80% of the chicks that were Asian were into me. I actually went out with an indian chick from this social circle but during the date couldn't force myself to go through with it and become intimate because I wasn't attracted to her.

Here's a list of hobbies/social circle activities that I tried and signed up for:

Breakdancing
Hip hop dancing
Salsa (several different levels)
Bachata
Ballroom
Wing Chun
Muay Thai
Boxing
Public Speaking
Improv Comedy (Actually there were a few ok looking girls here)
Intramural volleyball

I don't know if its just bad luck or what, but almost all of those didn't turn out too well in terms of meeting chicks.

I can't do the Philippines. I'm just not attracted to those girls. Never been and probably never will. Maybe somewhere in Europe but definitely not Asia. I used to be into Asian girls when I was still in highschool but as I got more and more whitewashed I find myself less and less into them.

[Dalaran1991]

Quote:

I can't do the Philippines. I'm just not attracted to those girls. Never been and probably never will. Maybe somewhere in Europe but definitely not Asia.

Same. I know some will say its irrational, but I just like white girls better. I had a Korean gf once but thats about it.

OP, I know how you feel, I have been there. I'm willing to help you. But I don't agree with a lot of things you said:

Quote:

What gives other people the right to go and pick and choose what the want to date while others like me just because of something I have absolutely no control over just go and date a certain ethnicity just because it's easier or because society deems us having to belong together?

Life gives them that right. Get used to it. There's no point being bitter about the sky being blue. This is a very important mindset. Bitterness is good, but only if it spurs you to action. I was bitter too, but I used it and I swore to never to let a woman disrespects me again. You need to turn bitter into acceptance, otherwise girls smell it before you even show up.

Quote:

If I had gone strictly for Asian chicks, we probably wouldn't even be having this thread right now because I wouldn't even have to work for it. I can walk into a room full of Asian chicks and they all go gaga over me just because I don't look anything like a stereotypical Asian guy and I have pale skin and tall, and workout and dress well and have more confidence then 98% of Asian dudes I meet.

I dont believe you. Stop bullshitting me.

I am in your shoes, and much worse off at 5"4'. I dont know if you are handsome, but if you are tall and not fat, and still having all this difficulties, I call it bullshit. My experience proves to me, if you can get Asian girls easily, you can get white girls, albeit harder but not as hard as you think. Who said that gaming Asian girls (the quality ones, not golddiggers) is easier for Asian guys? I game white girls just fine and though gaming Asian is easier, I still have to work for it.

A lot of Asian guys having white fever give me this bullshit and I had to call them out every time "oh I only want white girls, I could easily pull an Asian girl out of my ass", then I ask them to go game an Asian girl and they either refuse to, or it becomes apparent that they have absolutely no game.

I'll simplify: for girls its very simple: you are either attractive or invisible. You can be an attractive Asian guy, but you still have to be attractive.

You are having horrible close rate and 2nd day rate, this means that you are not interesting (read attractive) enough to justify a 2nd date with you. And most of the time if you are tall, well dressed you should have at least 10% close rate. I know because I'm short, jacked and well dressed and I have about 25%, and most of my 2nd date ends with a makeout, bang or a 3rd date.

That and you said social circle game doesn't work for you, despite the numerous activities and your own efforts. This I simply cant understand . I only do aikido and bachata and I have more than I can handle. Shit the other day I grasped this cute brunette's wrists a bit hard and she looked at me starry eyes "it hurts, but its good. Dont stop"

My only explanation is that your vibe is horribly off, as is your social skills. I mean, I see plenty of bad players out there, who are tall and dressed well AND asian, and thats enough to get them laid.

I'm nowhere near a good player and I'm pretty damn successful all things considered. I have the same upbringing as you: possessive mother hen who still think that at 25 I should focus on career and not girls, a condescending sister, a total lack of sexual experience, beta friends, I only like white girls and have been told I cant get them. You name it, I've live it.

Look bro, I really want to help you because you were me, sorry if any of this sounds harsh. But we cant unless you are really honest with you and us. I'll PM you for some more infos.

In the meantime, please read this thread: thread-35934...pid1445426

I made it when I first joined, and the forum helped me tremendously. Maybe you can find some gems there