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The (inevitable?) impact of technology on our society
#1

The (inevitable?) impact of technology on our society

I have been thinking a lot recently about the impact that technology has on our society.

I've read comments, here and elsewhere, that amount to "what a shame that our society is so technologically advanced but so cucked at the same time." These comments basically assume that there is no correlation between the two, and that it is pure coincidence that the West got cucked right around the same time it became technologically advanced. The more I think about it, the more I am becoming convinced that there is a direct correlation between technological advancement and the destruction of culture, family, and tradition. Furthermore, I believe there is nothing that can be done about this correlation. We might get Trump, and he will certainly make a difference in the short term (and even significantly slow down the decline), but he will not be able to completely reverse the decline. At the end of the day, I am becoming convinced that nothing in this world is free. No generation truly has it better than their forefathers. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, and if the "action" is an improvement of our lives through technological advancement, then the "equal and opposite reaction" will be the decline of culture, tradition, and freedom.

I will give only a few examples, as not to make this post too long, but the basic principle applies to all forms of technology:

Modern medicine: Improves life expectancy and physical comfort for the sick, but in the long run reduces the quality of the gene pool. For example, kidney transplants (which I am very familiar with due to someone close to me that had one) save lives, but when these people with kidney failure reproduce, the next generation is more likely to have kidney failure, and so on. Additionally, modern medicine contributes to overpopulation (which is eventually a self-correcting problem, but affects the quality of our lives in the present).

Cars, planes, and all forms high-speed transportation: These things obviously improved our lives by allowing us to travel long distances in short periods of time. Modern tourism and modern immigration is only possible due to modern vehicles. However, modern vehicles make military and police forces far more powerful, making us less free than we once were, and making wars far more deadly. Due to this increased power, we become more dependent on police and governments, and less able to look out for ourselves without their help. Vehicles allow for mass immigration into foreign lands, causing all the problems associated with diversity. Additionally, vehicles make us lazy. Modern obesity rates would not be what they are if not for the invention of cars. Cars also cause cities to become automobile dependent. Here is a Wikipedia article on all the problems associated with automobile dependency:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_dependency

Communiation and information technology (phones, computers, etc.): The ability to communicate over long distances and store information makes our lives easier in many obvious ways. We could not have this forum, among many other things we enjoy, if it were not for these technologies. However, the ability to communicate over long distances makes it easier for a centralized government to rule vast areas, with the central ruler able to coordinate his actions with his associates in remote parts of the country, or far away cities. Additionally, computers, which give us (among other things) the ability to store information indefinitely, contribute to our lack of freedom, privacy, and the power of governments in the modern world. Commit a petty crime when you were 18? It's on your record for life, and any employer can look it up. Get falsely arrested for "rape?" Anyone who Googles your name will find out. Want to serve in the military or work at a corporation? They won't let you if you've got anything on your record because they don't want to look bad. This leaves many young men with little direction in their lives. Additionally, our reliance on computers make us vulnerable to all kinds of cyber attacks.

Recreational drugs: Believe it or not, recreational drugs (as they exist today) are a technology. Prior to 100 years ago, we did not have all these hard drugs. There is a complicated production process involved with the hardest drugs (meth, heroin, cocaine, etc.). The benefits of this technology is that we have access to drugs that make us feel good in an instant, while the downsides are obvious (addiction, loss of direction and purpose in life, destruction of communities, etc.).

The reason I include recreational drugs on the list is because they are a technological advancement that everyone can agree has certain benefits, but everyone also agrees that the downsides outweigh the benefits. My argument is that this basic principle is true (although not as obvious) for all technological advancements. I do not think we would have feminism, rampant leftism, communism during the 20th century, high obesity rates, high divorce rates, and the rest of the problems we have today had it not been for the Industrial Revolution and modern technology.

I do realize that when it comes to military technology, we don't really have a choice. If we choose not to acquire the newest military technology, we would simply be conquered by those who do. However, that fact doesn't change my observations above.
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#2

The (inevitable?) impact of technology on our society

Quote: (11-02-2016 07:50 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

Recreational drugs: Believe it or not, recreational drugs (as they exist today) are a technology. Prior to 100 years ago, we did not have all these hard drugs.

This is simply not true

Certain analogues didn't exist but things like ephedrine, opium, cannabis, raw coca leaves, DMT, etc.. have been in use for thousands of years
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#3

The (inevitable?) impact of technology on our society

Quote: (11-02-2016 08:08 PM)Architekt Wrote:  

Quote: (11-02-2016 07:50 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  

Recreational drugs: Believe it or not, recreational drugs (as they exist today) are a technology. Prior to 100 years ago, we did not have all these hard drugs.

This is simply not true

Certain analogues didn't exist but things like ephedrine, opium, cannabis, raw coca leaves, DMT, etc.. have been in use for thousands of years

I never said drugs didn't exist, but they were not nearly as ubiquitous. Addiction was not as big a problem as it is today. It was not a big enough problem to even make them illegal.

Besides, the drugs may have not been the best analogy, but my overall point still stands.
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#4

The (inevitable?) impact of technology on our society

God forbid man should be able to escape backbreaking manual labor to enable other pursuits.

That he CHOOSES to spend his newfound freedom self-lobotomizing tells you much more about the root of mankind than it does about technology.

Population explosion hysteria and demonization of the industrial revolution were blue-pill cancers to be left behind at high school.
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#5

The (inevitable?) impact of technology on our society

I think the detractors are missing the point OP is trying to make.

Technology and cultural decline go hand in hand. I agree, even if some of his points are less than rock solid, the overall theory is pretty accurate.
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#6

The (inevitable?) impact of technology on our society

John Galt is right.

I was simply naming every negative effect that technology could possibly have. I'm sure I probably exaggerated some points and neglected to mention others. If I had time to write an actual article, I would only choose the best examples.

@TooFineAPoint There is no "overpopulation hysteria." In fact, I specifically pointed out that overpopulation is a self-correcting problem.

As far as the Industrial Revolution, I do not believe it was a coincidence that only after the Industrial Revolution did the world get communism, feminism, influential corporations, etc. Feel free to disagree, but at least make a point instead of just calling me "blue pill."
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#7

The (inevitable?) impact of technology on our society

I disagree utterly and completely, in every way.

Instead of articulating my thoughts into a post for the next 45 minutes (and still not conveying them near as well as Lizard), I will post this beautiful quote from another thread-

Quote: (09-20-2015 06:02 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

This passage and these thoughts came to my mind as I was reading a recent post by Roosh called City Life Is A Simulation. In it, Roosh talks about a documentary on the life of villagers in remote Siberia who lack all means of modern technology; he is moved to conceive of their existence as a kind of rural fantasia, a life in which man is at one with nature and which is therefore a genuine, and meaningful, life; compared to this, he feels that the life of the city with all its modern conveniences is a mere simulacrum, indeed possibly a "simulation". In any case it is something empty, hollow and artificial, removed from the rhythms of nature. I was especially struck by this paragraph in which Roosh lauds the "authentic" masculinity of the villagers and their manual labor, and dismisses the "make believe" masculinity of merely going to a city gym:

Quote:Quote:

I must ask myself if I want to continue living a simulated life in which I’m surrounded by comfort, concrete, and electronic screens, or live one closer to nature, where occasionally I must pick up an ax and strike it at a log to ensure I won’t freeze in the night, instead of merely simulating this strike by entering an air conditioned gym with top 40 music playing in the background.

This passage, and the post as a whole, saddened me; and it made me want to say something like this to Roosh, a man I admire and respect -- and to the many other men who, no doubt, feel much like him:

Roosh, and other dudes: look around you. You are privileged to be in an indescribably beautiful, indeed mystical place: a perfectly air conditioned city gym with top 40 music playing in the background. I'm not even going to lecture you about gratitude; I'm not even going to bore you with a long discourse (all of which would be true) about how centuries of work, of thought, of human (male) ingenuity have gone into making every single apparatus you see arrayed before you, how physicists had to invent the beautiful ideas of thermodynamics and engineers had to slave to put those ideas to use to design devices that maintain the ideal temperature for human beings to live and thrive in; how the cloying confectionary strains of "top 40 music" were optimized by canny and skillful operators over time to achieve a kind of sublime banality. I'll even spare you the harangue about the amazing, and constantly improving, materials that went into making your Under Armour tanktop a kind of weaponized weightlifting uniform. Relax -- you've been spared all this.

But look around you. Do you see the mixed raced hottie with her ass in yoga pants bending over, stretching, and seating herself on a pussy machine so that her pussy can get just a little tighter? Do you see the Misc-reading IRT perform his deadlifts with inspiringly terrible form, essentially trying to wreck his delicate subcontinental frame in his terrible quest for muscle; do you see the fag and his mincing bicep curls; do you see the gutted out contractor who looks 60 if he's a day actually squat 225 to the absolute paused bottom for 15 brutal reps? DON'T you see all these things? Don't you see the insane, endless, magical variety of life around you -- life that, as Henry James said, is no illusion, no phantasm, no evil dream of a night. Life that is as real and as authentic as any ax wielded by any fool in Siberia or elsewhere -- indeed, more glorious, more interesting, more various than any of these villagers could ever conceive of. Don't you see it?

Look around you. Technological advancement, the progress won by centuries and centuries of men's toil and creativity, has not made life less "real", less "genuine", less meaningful -- it has added to the beauty, to the variety, to the comedy of what we are privileged to experience at all times. An air conditioned gym is every bit as much a part of "nature" as any stretch of Siberian tundra; it is nature transformed and enlivened by the most singular and superb of nature's creations, the human being. Don't let mere ideas, in their heated thinness, cause you to lose the world. Welcome experience as it comes, and give it what it demands; don't be so absorbed in your thought -- so often futile and devoid of reality -- that the very ground on which you walk becomes abstracted and unreal, that you fail to see the hottie in yoga pants, and also the ill-fated IRT, the fag, and the contractor. Don't lose the world -- it is as worth living in and attending to as it ever was; more so if you ask me. Give life as it is a chance, in all humility; and it will reward you a thousandfold.

Also, there was a recent thread on this topic:
thread-50477.html

Americans are dreamers too
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#8

The (inevitable?) impact of technology on our society

GlobalMan,

While what you quoted is indeed a well-written post, it doesn't really address the concern OP laid out, which is that technology adds one thing while removing another. OP never argued that we should devolve to technology of the 1500's, merely that the last 30 years or so of extreme technical advances has made some aspects of culture worse.

It's great that we have AC. But cell phones? Do they add more than they take away? I'd argue they do. There's very little my cell phone can do I can't do with a laptop. But what have they taken away?

I don't think he was arguing that life isn't worth living as is, simply that we consider the COST the technology that improves our lives has. It's a worthwhile thought, from a philosophical perspective, IMO.
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#9

The (inevitable?) impact of technology on our society

John, I think one could find downsides or negatives to nearly any man made item, no doubt. I'm talking about the wider assertion, sometimes seen in our sphere, that civilization is in decline, that "things were better back in XXXX", the women were better, life was better without X, etc etc.

This is what I disagree with-

Quote: (11-02-2016 08:53 PM)John_Galt Wrote:  

Technology and cultural decline go hand in hand.

I haven't seen any compelling argument that technology is, in effect, causing cultural decline (which is what I take you mean from this quote). I see some valid points about downsides to specific items (though none particularly damning), but that's not really a revelation.

Americans are dreamers too
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#10

The (inevitable?) impact of technology on our society

GlobalMan:

You make a very fair point. After all, if there's anything I learned in my statistics class in college, it's this:

"Correlation does not necessitate Causation.

And I can't speak for OP, but I don't think he is necessarily saying that we're WORSE off, only merely that we aren't BETTER off.

Everything has a cost. EVERYTHING. There are a lot of things that have improved in the past decade, or century, but a lot has also gotten worse.

Is technology the cause of this? Perhaps, perhaps not. I have no doubt it is a contributing factor, but we shouldn't pretend as though culture exists in a vacuum.
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#11

The (inevitable?) impact of technology on our society

I agree to an extent, particularly about the weakening of the gene pool. It's not something that seems fair on the children of the people with the diseases, and what's going to happen to all of them when war/natural disaster strikes and medical supplies are hard to get hold of?

In terms of population, I know that the West's low birthrate is criticised a lot on here as a byproduct of feminism and I do agree with that. However I'd argue that it is a good thing, as overpopulation is a very real problem that is likely to happen by the time most of us reading this today reach the end of our lives. Our birth rates are now stable/declining, it is the third world countries that aren't doing their bit to prevent overpopulation. Have a look at the expected population increase for Nigeria over the next 50 years if you aren't convinced.

Don't agree about the drugs.
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#12

The (inevitable?) impact of technology on our society

Quote: (11-03-2016 12:28 AM)John_Galt Wrote:  

GlobalMan,

While what you quoted is indeed a well-written post, it doesn't really address the concern OP laid out, which is that technology adds one thing while removing another. OP never argued that we should devolve to technology of the 1500's, merely that the last 30 years or so of extreme technical advances has made some aspects of culture worse.

I would say a little more than the last 30 years. I would say everything from the Industrial Revolution onwards fits what I am talking about.

Even the Industrial Revolution itself caused major changes in society that were unprecedented. For example, the Industrial Revolution was the first time in history that certain people were able to amass so much wealth as to be able to consistently influence the government in their favor and away from the interests of the people. This ultimately led to Marxism and Communism.

Also, I don't believe society and its values would have constantly moved to the left from the late 1800s onward had it not been for the Industrial Revolution and technology. I don't believe feminism would have taken hold in the early 20th century if middle-class women hadn't had their lives made so much easier (and more boring) by technology. Plus, the vast majority of men no longer hunted, fought in war, or did hard physical labor, so women started to become less attracted to them.

I also don't think all the leftist changes that happened in the 1960s would have happened if it hadn't been for the unprecedented technological advancement of the 19th and 20th centuries. There is a reason why Russia and Eastern Europe, regions that did not industrialize until the 20th century, and never had truly capitalist, industrial societies until very recently, are most red-pill regions in Europe.

John_Galt, you're right that correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation, but do you really think it is pure coincidence that all these societal changes happened in the century following the Industrial Revolution?

As for the technology that was developed prior to the Industrial Revolution (such as agriculture, printing press, primitive firearms), I don't have a reason to believe it was harmful to society, but I wouldn't be surprised if I found out it did fuck with humanity in some way. It seems logical that anything humans do to permanently change their environment (key word: permanently) will end up having some kind of negative effect in the long run, although I'm not necessarily saying the negatives will outweigh the positives in every case.

Quote: (11-03-2016 12:28 AM)John_Galt Wrote:  

I don't think he was arguing that life isn't worth living as is, simply that we consider the COST the technology that improves our lives has. It's a worthwhile thought, from a philosophical perspective, IMO.

That is correct.

Also, @GlobalMan, I skimmed through Roosh's article about the Siberians, and I tend to agree with Roosh. I think he is essentially making the same point I'm making. We are biologically evolved for an environment entirely different from the one we live in, and this fucks with us both physically and psychologically.

Evolution is a slow process that takes place over hundreds of thousands of years. Biologically modern humans have been around for about 200,000 years. Therefore, we are still biologically evolved for the environment we lived in during the Paleolithic period (hunter-gatherer times). Evolution will never be able to keep up with our ever-changing environment.
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#13

The (inevitable?) impact of technology on our society

I'm honestly surprised nobody brought up the Unabomber's manifesto. Rob, he brought up the same points you did:

http://cyber.eserver.org/unabom.txt

His first point literally is: "The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. They have greatly increased the life-expectancy of those of us who live in "advanced" countries, but they have destabilized society, have made life unfulfilling, have subjected human beings to indignities, have led to widespread psychological suffering (in the Third World to physical suffering as well) and have inflicted severe damage on the natural world. The continued development of technology will worsen the situation. It will certainly subject human beings to greater indignities and inflict greater damage on the natural world, it will probably lead to greater social disruption and psychological suffering, and it may lead to increased physical suffering even in "advanced" countries."

Not happening. - redbeard in regards to ETH flippening BTC
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#14

The (inevitable?) impact of technology on our society

Yeah, I am aware of that. I know the Unabomber has been written about at ROK or Roosh's blog if I'm not mistaken. Despite being a crazy murderer, he had some good points on the impact of technology.

Technology does allow the world to sustain a greater number of people, but it also makes it so that those people are dependent on technology for survival. If the world suddenly reverted back to its primitive pre-industrial revolution form, the majority of the human population would die, because the world would not be able to sustain anywhere near 7 billion people.

That is why I think it is important for men to learn survival skills, and also to learn a trade that is applicable anywhere in the world (i.e. plumbing, auto mechanics, etc.). You can have a billion dollars in the bank, and if the powers that be decide that your money is no longer worth anything (unlikely, but technically possible), then you're screwed.

Money (and gold, diamonds, precious metals, etc.) only has value because we say it does. If enough people were to stop accepting it as currency, it would be worthless. If you're rich but you don't have survival skills, you are dependent on the global economic system. You cannot survive without it. Even somebody that knows a trade (e.g. auto mechanic) is still dependent on there being someone willing to hire him. That is why there is no substitute for survival skills (i.e. hunting, combat/firearms training, cooking, outdoor camping and backpacking, etc.) and friends/family you can trust.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we shouldn't focus on making money. You just need to have a backup plan. I just feel like you're not really a man if you are dependent on a system of men who you don't even know for your own (and your family's) survival.

PS: If anyone thinks I am describing a doomsday scenario that will never actually happen, just look at the Great Depression. That happened less than a century ago. Many hard-working responsible men were suddenly unable to support their families because the system, which they had no control over, had failed them.

"But Rob, the Great Depression only happened once. That was the first time in history that an economic depression of that magnitude affected so many people."

Exactly, because prior to the Industrial Revolution, most men still had survival skills. Even if most men had jobs and depended on someone else for income, you did not see entire societies turning over control of their lives to the system, like you saw post-Industrial Revolution.
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