[GlobalMan]

(09-26-2016 02:58 PM)younggun Wrote:  

It's not about the zingers, it's the tone. Some of the most effective, memorable Trump debate moments were zingers but the key was his delivery. For sure, if he goes "Where are your emails Hillary?" unprompted, it's going to look like he's compensating for a lack of policy knowledge.

But the "oh you're a tough guy Jeb" and "maybe she should be running" lines, in reference to Jeb's mom, were demoralizing. Trump has to show his sense of humor because it's what endears him to so many, and what will endear him to undecided voters (usually the more unintelligent). He's not winning anyone over on policy because he'll never match Clinton.
She's too well rehearsed, but this can be a negative if he sounds human and she sounds robotic as expected.

This debate is nothing like the republican debates, if Trump does anything like the Jeb comments in these debates he will lose, and badly. There really is no comparison between the circumstances at that time and this.

Not handing out zingers certainly does not mean the only option is to talk about boring policy details. There is a wide happy medium he can and should find between those two extremes.

[Chauncey]

(09-25-2016 04:36 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Here is my view of what will matter most in the debate tomorrow night.

There is a prevalent idea among Trumpers here and elsewhere that Trump is going to "crush", "rip apart" and generally "destroy" the Hag during the debate, and that this is what we have to look forward to. By the time it's over, she'll be practically curled into a fetal position and whimpering in some corner (if not outright collapsed to the floor like a sack of Parkinson's-addled potatoes), and Trump will be grinning like a well-fed cat and savoring his now inevitable victory.

This idea is, in my opinion, extremely dumb and completely divorced from reality. The reality is this:

Hillary will be well-coached, well-prepared, and well-versed in both relevant facts and figures, and canned/pre-packaged retorts, rhetorical moves, and arguments. Above all, she will come ready with pre-crafted zingers that she will be ready to deploy for various occasions. These zingers will be actually good, as far as that nonsense goes -- they will be memorable and calculated to provoke Trump and leave a mark. They will have been thoroughly poll-tested, and she will know when to use them to maximum effect. If the debate devolves to an exchange of zingers, Trump will lose it -- badly -- and more than likely, lose whatever shot he has at winning the election.

However, there is a way for Trump to preemptively de-zinger the debate and make the most important part of her prep and memorization work utterly useless. Here is how you do it. In his opening statement for the debate, Trump should say the following:

Quote:

I know I have been guilty of this in the past, but I hope these debates will not be about trading ******zingers******

(he should use emphatic scare quotes with his fingers, and speak very solemnly when he delivers this DEADLY word)

Quote:

Now, our country has serious problems; but, with the right leadership, perhaps even greater opportunities, and Secretary Clinton and I owe the voters a serious discussion of our ideas to help all Americans. This election is a serious matter, not entertainment -- so I will refrain from *******zingers******* and I hope Secretary Clinton agrees with me. We may not have as much fun, but an honest discussion of the issues facing us is more important than anything else, and it's what the voting public deserves. Thank you.

This is what Trump needs to do to: get out in front of the planned zinger mudbath, and disarm the Hag -- strip her of all her prepared and pre-canned material which, if she gets to deploy it, will be the only thing the media and ads will focus on for days following the debate.

Doing this has the additional advantage of making Trump appear serious, earnest, and, in a word, presidential -- which is what he needs to be to sell undecided voters, especially women, on his candidacy. Hillary and her team are preparing for Trump to be "unpredictable" -- but in de-zingering the debate from the outset, he would be unpredictable in a different way than they can imagine. It would be a win/win/win.

Aside from that, what Trump needs to do is:

-- be kind and polite to Clinton;
-- even when criticizing her harshly, do it in a mellow manner and with the occasional smile to crown that mellowness;
-- never scowl and NEVER YELL;
-- and never, ever, get dragged into the zinger mud.

If he does all this -- keeps his cool, remembers to smile, and makes the entirely unexpected and stunning move of de-zingering the debate from the outset, he's got a real shot of doing well enough with women and making the sale that wins the election. Otherwise, he is likely to die the death of a dozen well-placed zingers and lose. I hope he makes the right decision.

I didn't see this thread until just now. And obviously, nobody from the Trump campaign is reading the forum (as much as we'd like to think).

Trump did the opposite of almost every single thing in this post.

LoZ you sure are a wise one. Maybe you can get in touch with Kellyanne and offer some political advice, and then your cock, she seems like the freaky type.

[nomadbrah]

(09-26-2016 11:01 PM)Chauncey Wrote:  

(09-25-2016 04:36 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Here is my view of what will matter most in the debate tomorrow night.

There is a prevalent idea among Trumpers here and elsewhere that Trump is going to "crush", "rip apart" and generally "destroy" the Hag during the debate, and that this is what we have to look forward to. By the time it's over, she'll be practically curled into a fetal position and whimpering in some corner (if not outright collapsed to the floor like a sack of Parkinson's-addled potatoes), and Trump will be grinning like a well-fed cat and savoring his now inevitable victory.

This idea is, in my opinion, extremely dumb and completely divorced from reality. The reality is this:

Hillary will be well-coached, well-prepared, and well-versed in both relevant facts and figures, and canned/pre-packaged retorts, rhetorical moves, and arguments. Above all, she will come ready with pre-crafted zingers that she will be ready to deploy for various occasions. These zingers will be actually good, as far as that nonsense goes -- they will be memorable and calculated to provoke Trump and leave a mark. They will have been thoroughly poll-tested, and she will know when to use them to maximum effect. If the debate devolves to an exchange of zingers, Trump will lose it -- badly -- and more than likely, lose whatever shot he has at winning the election.

However, there is a way for Trump to preemptively de-zinger the debate and make the most important part of her prep and memorization work utterly useless. Here is how you do it. In his opening statement for the debate, Trump should say the following:

Quote:

I know I have been guilty of this in the past, but I hope these debates will not be about trading ******zingers******

(he should use emphatic scare quotes with his fingers, and speak very solemnly when he delivers this DEADLY word)

Quote:

Now, our country has serious problems; but, with the right leadership, perhaps even greater opportunities, and Secretary Clinton and I owe the voters a serious discussion of our ideas to help all Americans. This election is a serious matter, not entertainment -- so I will refrain from *******zingers******* and I hope Secretary Clinton agrees with me. We may not have as much fun, but an honest discussion of the issues facing us is more important than anything else, and it's what the voting public deserves. Thank you.

This is what Trump needs to do to: get out in front of the planned zinger mudbath, and disarm the Hag -- strip her of all her prepared and pre-canned material which, if she gets to deploy it, will be the only thing the media and ads will focus on for days following the debate.

Doing this has the additional advantage of making Trump appear serious, earnest, and, in a word, presidential -- which is what he needs to be to sell undecided voters, especially women, on his candidacy. Hillary and her team are preparing for Trump to be "unpredictable" -- but in de-zingering the debate from the outset, he would be unpredictable in a different way than they can imagine. It would be a win/win/win.

Aside from that, what Trump needs to do is:

-- be kind and polite to Clinton;
-- even when criticizing her harshly, do it in a mellow manner and with the occasional smile to crown that mellowness;
-- never scowl and NEVER YELL;
-- and never, ever, get dragged into the zinger mud.

If he does all this -- keeps his cool, remembers to smile, and makes the entirely unexpected and stunning move of de-zingering the debate from the outset, he's got a real shot of doing well enough with women and making the sale that wins the election. Otherwise, he is likely to die the death of a dozen well-placed zingers and lose. I hope he makes the right decision.

I didn't see this thread until just now. And obviously, nobody from the Trump campaign is reading the forum (as much as we'd like to think).

Trump did the opposite of almost every single thing in this post.

LoZ you sure are a wise one. Maybe you can get in touch with Kellyanne and offer some political advice, and then your cock, she seems like the freaky type.

What are you talking about, he did almost all?

He was definitely nice to Clinton, constantly saying stuff like "we agree" and he didn't hit back on her last minute attacks, he didn't launch any kind of personal attacks.

We'll see in the polls if this tactic works or not, but he did mainly do as LOZ suggested, which I personally think is a mistake, but we'll see what the undecided women vote shows.

[LeoneVolpe]

The challenge in trying to ascertain how well Trump did is due to everyone having different ideas on what a debate victory would look like. Many of us were hoping for a complete one-sided ass kicking and were disappointed when anything less than that happened. I think it's fair to say RVF members (myself included) had much higher expectations for Trump in the debate as compared to the general population. It's quite possible, even likely, average/low information viewers went into this not expecting much from Trump and were surprised by how well he did.

[RawGod]

We'll just have to wait and see for a few days. For us it's impossible to get inside the heads of that small percentage of undecided voters who are what it's all about now. I think it will be a wash a week from now, but who knows.