[Thought Criminal]

(09-11-2016 12:55 PM)david.garrett84 Wrote:  

A guy greatly responsible for the single biggest breakthrough in biology during the 20th century has been banned from delivering a university lecture because people did not like what he said.

Free speech is dying and being progressively criminalized. This is what concerns me and should concern all of us.

James Watson, co-discoverer of DNA, is guilty of a heinous thought crime. For this crime he must burn. No matter how useful to society, such criminals must pay the price for their crimes, no matter how long ago they were committed. Enjoy the decline of western civilization. 1984 here we come!

[Peregrine]

(09-11-2016 04:23 PM)Delta Wrote:  

How infuriating is it that the concept of correlation is not part of standard K-12 curriculum? Understanding what correlation means is absolutely fundamental to properly interpreting scientific findings, yet topics involving correlation (discussed in any capacity, not just this forum) never fail to produce comments from people who clearly don't get it, e.g.:

-"Smoking causes cancer? Bullshit, my 94 year old grandmother smokes a pack a day and she's still alive and kicking!"
-"Obesity is unhealthy? Then tell me why I'm huge and in perfect health, but so many skinny people have high blood pressure!"
-"Women aren't as good at math? I guess all those female Harvard math Ph.D's are just imaginary then!"
-"People of African descent have lower IQs? Are you really telling me Neil DeGrasse Tyson is less intelligent than white trailer trash?"
-"High IQs lead to professional success? Excuse me, I never tested well, but I work my ass off and rake in $300k a year!"
etc.

These comments can even come from college educated people, who either avoided quantitative classes like the plague, or were taught regression as a bunch of complex matrix algebra rather than a concept to be intuitively understood.

It cannot be said enough: A correlation is a group-wide average. Individual exceptions are to be expected, and do nothing to disprove a correlation.

To put this into game terms, being tall is a significant attractiveness factor in men. However, a short individual male can still achieve top tier success with women. The latter does not disprove the original fact that tall men are more attractive than short men, ceteris paribus.

[wi30]

(09-11-2016 04:19 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

"3. Who cares? Intelligence means jack shit if you don't apply it to anything. I used to be smug about being smart when I was younger. I'd take pride in winning obscure arguments. Guess what? That earned me zero dollars and got me zero pussy. The world doesn't owe you shit because you're smart. You have to go out and take it."

I care, because I hate being forced to lie about things because other people don't want to admit the truth. IQ exists, it's real, and it's obvious to anyone with eyes to see. Who makes a lot of money in life? Doctors, lawyers, CEOs. You think any of those guys have an IQ of under 110? When some stupid kid tries to rob a gun store and gets filled with holes, do you think he had an IQ above 120?

It's similar in a lot of ways to fat acceptance, really. Saying things like, "Mike Tyson may have a low IQ, but he's really good at figuring out where to punch people, so in a way, isn't he intelligent?" is the same as saying, "Real women have curves!" or "Marilyn Monroe was a size 16!" They're lies people tell to make themselves feel better.

I have to put up with this in the real world all the time. I don't want to have to put up with it here.

Who's lying about anything? Did I ever deny that IQ is real?

No shit it's the double digit IQ guys getting blasted by cops. And no shit rich dudes are smarter. Where in my post did I deny that?

I'm saying it doesn't matter that you're smart. Every poster on here is. It's what you do with it. IQ has a threshold. Dudes with an 80 are most likely doomed to a mediocre life. It doesn't matter if you're at 120 or 140, you have to apply that knowledge to succeed. Otherwise you'll turn out like the assholes in academia who accomplish nothing but get off on their view from the ivory tower.

[SamuelBRoberts]

"Who's lying about anything?"
Other posters, who aren't you. Nothing in your post was a lie.

"Did I ever deny that IQ is real? "
You did not.

"No shit it's the double digit IQ guys getting blasted by cops. And no shit rich dudes are smarter. Where in my post did I deny that?'
You didn't.

"I'm saying it doesn't matter that you're smart. Every poster on here is. It's what you do with it. IQ has a threshold. Dudes with an 80 are most likely doomed to a mediocre life. It doesn't matter if you're at 120 or 140, you have to apply that knowledge to succeed. Otherwise you'll turn out like the assholes in academia who accomplish nothing but get off on their view from the ivory tower."
This is true.

[wi30]

Thanks for the clarification. I thought you were referring to my post. Glad we're in agreement.

[Fortis]

It's whatever. If you're black, white, hispanic, austronesian or asian but you're reading RVF I'm going to assume you've got grit and are determined to do well.

I do find IQ very interesting. I've never taken a test but I have always found myself in circles with a few high IQ types. Most of my closest friends are high-IQ types of guys. I don't consider myself high-IQ or anything, I just like to read and figure out what's going on with the world and work from there.

[Truth Teller]

I doubt this is the only reason he got banned. People who've met him say the guy is an insufferable prick.

[SamuelBRoberts]

"I do find IQ very interesting. I've never taken a test but I have always found myself in circles with a few high IQ types. Most of my closest friends are high-IQ types of guys. I don't consider myself high-IQ or anything, I just like to read and figure out what's going on with the world and work from there."

I've never met a person who has mostly high-IQ friends and who describes his hobbies as "reading" and "figuring out what's going on with the world" who didn't have a fairly high IQ himself. I suppose there must be one or two of them out there, but I've never met them.

[ivansirko]

i am unsure if i agree with the notion blacks score less on IQ test. Blacks is a construct like "white" and "Asian". Do English score better than French? How about the Russians vs the Poles? All 4 are white. Or the Koreans (North or South?) vs the Japanese?

What about the Muslims in Benin vs the Christians of Nigeria? Or the San of Namibia?

[SamuelBRoberts]

"i am unsure if i agree with the notion blacks score less on IQ test. Blacks is a construct like "white" and "Asian"."

Do you apply this in other areas of your life? When someone says "I'm black," do you say, "No you aren't. That's just a construct!" Do you go into the Black Man game thread over in the game section and tell them, "No, you're not really black after all. You don't need your own thread." You can fiddle with the definitions around the edges but Black, White, and Asian are real things.

"Do English score better than French?"
Yes. 100 vs. 98.

"How about the Russians vs the Poles?"
Poles score higher. 99 vs. 97. (For all the Polack jokes out there, the poles have a higher IQ than the French!)

"Or the Koreans (North or South?) vs the Japanese? "
South Korea is supposedly 106 to Japan's 105.
They're the #2 and #3 countries, respectively. If you count countries, as opposed to tiny city-states like Hong Kong and Singapore, they're #1 and #2.

I doubt there's good data on North Korean IQ. But it's probably shit.

[Dusty]

One need only look at conditions in every country in sub-Sahara Africa and Caribbean countries to see IQ differences are real and IQ matters.

[ChemicalFreezer]

People need to stop fcking around saying these types of statistics don't matter just because muh feelings are hurt/or you belong to that particular group of people.

It's no coincidence that blacks in general are better at agility sports than any other race.
Its no coincidence that most of the worlds strongest men competitors are Nordic.
Its no coincidence that genius/math competitions are dominated by Asians/Indians
Its no coincidence that most of the innovations in technology come from whites than any other race.
Its no coincidence Latin people are some of the most cheerful/warm towards others worldwide
Its no coincidence Muslims commit more terrorist attacks than any other religion.
Its no coincidence Asians cheat the most in tests
Its no coincidence Africa/India is such a shithole compare to the time they have had to make it it livable
Its no coincidence that White countries are more prone to guilt more than any other.
Its no coincidence Latin America corruption has always existed

[Chowder Head]

Asians cheat on tests? And they are also dominate in genius/math competitions? Interesting.

[SamuelBRoberts]

"Asians cheat on tests? And they are also dominate in genius/math competitions? Interesting."

Yeah, that's it. It must be those sneaky Asians cheating. Repeatedly, over the course of an entire century.

[Wealth of Spirit]

Firstly, I would like to preface this by saying I've learned a lot from these responses. IQ data is an important part of understanding groups as a whole, and can give you a glimpse at how certain people think and behave. Stefan Molyneux had a video awhile back about IQ is a determinate for cultural suitability. If a group of people with an lower average IQ move to an area where the average IQ is relatively high, there is an instance where that group may not be able to assimilate smoothly. All of that information is important in understanding the world we live in. So let the data conclude what it must.

But the most important point was made earlier; the silencing of speech based on feeling and emotion. Why couldn't the scientist discuss his findings in a reasonable manner? People who bury their heads in the sand think that by ignoring differing opinions, they can in fact encase themselves in some bubble of idealism. But the facts don't die...they just go underground. Used as tools of authenticity by people like us who are unafraid to look the beast in the eyes.

[rw95]

(09-11-2016 07:38 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

One need only look at conditions in every country in sub-Sahara Africa and Caribbean countries to see IQ differences are real and IQ matters.

Yes, because the Caribbean is SUCH a shithole.
It's not like there are countries in the Caribbean with majority-black populations doing better than nations in Eastern Europe and Asia in terms of average income.

[rw95]

(09-11-2016 08:08 PM)ChemicalFreezer Wrote:  

People need to stop fcking around saying these types of statistics don't matter just because muh feelings are hurt/or you belong to that particular group of people.

It's no coincidence that blacks in general are better at agility sports than any other race.
(True.)
Its no coincidence that most of the worlds strongest men competitors are Nordic.
(Apparently Slavs also do pretty well in strength competitions, but otherwise true.)
Its no coincidence that genius/math competitions are dominated by Asians/Indians
(Math yes.)
Its no coincidence that most of the innovations in technology come from whites than any other race.
(Northern and western European whites. Slavs, the Irish, and populations from the southern regions of Italy, Spain and Portugal have not been nearly as innovative or productive as their northern and western cousins.)
Its no coincidence Latin people are some of the most cheerful/warm towards others worldwide.
(Fair enough.)
Its no coincidence Muslims commit more terrorist attacks than any other religion.
(Lots of other factors besides religion, but OK.)
Its no coincidence Asians cheat the most in tests
(Well, the Chinese have definitely been known to cheat. Don't know about other Oriental/Asian populations.)
Its no coincidence Africa/India is such a shithole compare to the time they have had to make it it livable.
(True.)
Its no coincidence that White countries are more prone to guilt more than any other.
(Again, western/northern European countries. I doubt eastern Europe has any white guilt.)
Its no coincidence Latin America corruption has always existed
(True.)

[infowarrior1]

(09-11-2016 08:08 PM)ChemicalFreezer Wrote:  

People need to stop fcking around saying these types of statistics don't matter just because muh feelings are hurt/or you belong to that particular group of people.

It's no coincidence that blacks in general are better at agility sports than any other race.
Its no coincidence that most of the worlds strongest men competitors are Nordic.
Its no coincidence that genius/math competitions are dominated by Asians/Indians
Its no coincidence that most of the innovations in technology come from whites than any other race.
Its no coincidence Latin people are some of the most cheerful/warm towards others worldwide
Its no coincidence Muslims commit more terrorist attacks than any other religion.
Its no coincidence Asians cheat the most in tests
Its no coincidence Africa/India is such a shithole compare to the time they have had to make it it livable
Its no coincidence that White countries are more prone to guilt more than any other.
Its no coincidence Latin America corruption has always existed

All of them are the result of variation and differential reproduction rates. Different environments and cultures impose different selection pressures and cause differing proportions of human beings in terms of capabilities.

African environment or culture selected for physicality but have lower proportion of Hi IQ people due to the fact that they did not go through an ice age and dealing with winters.

Other peoples are different because of different selection pressures and availability of variation.

[infowarrior1]

(09-11-2016 05:06 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 04:23 PM)Delta Wrote:  

How infuriating is it that the concept of correlation is not part of standard K-12 curriculum? Understanding what correlation means is absolutely fundamental to properly interpreting scientific findings, yet topics involving correlation (discussed in any capacity, not just this forum) never fail to produce comments from people who clearly don't get it, e.g.:

-"Smoking causes cancer? Bullshit, my 94 year old grandmother smokes a pack a day and she's still alive and kicking!"
-"Obesity is unhealthy? Then tell me why I'm huge and in perfect health, but so many skinny people have high blood pressure!"
-"Women aren't as good at math? I guess all those female Harvard math Ph.D's are just imaginary then!"
-"People of African descent have lower IQs? Are you really telling me Neil DeGrasse Tyson is less intelligent than white trailer trash?"
-"High IQs lead to professional success? Excuse me, I never tested well, but I work my ass off and rake in $300k a year!"
etc.

These comments can even come from college educated people, who either avoided quantitative classes like the plague, or were taught regression as a bunch of complex matrix algebra rather than a concept to be intuitively understood.

It cannot be said enough: A correlation is a group-wide average. Individual exceptions are to be expected, and do nothing to disprove a correlation.

To put this into game terms, being tall is a significant attractiveness factor in men. However, a short individual male can still achieve top tier success with women. The latter does not disprove the original fact that tall men are more attractive than short men, ceteris paribus.

Its like the comparison between quantum physics and classical physics. While each exist in the same universe classical physics is accurate on a certain scale but breaks down at the quantum level. However classical physics are the result of an aggregate of quantum phenomena.

By and large statistics show a certain pattern that is accurate on a large scale with exceptions on the micro-scale that results from chance or randomness. Its more like a tendency rather than something that is immutable individually speaking.

[Enigma]

(09-11-2016 08:52 PM)rw95 Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 07:38 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

One need only look at conditions in every country in sub-Sahara Africa and Caribbean countries to see IQ differences are real and IQ matters.

Yes, because the Caribbean is SUCH a shithole.
It's not like there are countries in the Caribbean with majority-black populations doing better than nations in Eastern Europe and Asia in terms of average income.

The Eastern European and Southeast Asian countries you're referring to tend to have something in common, namely a recent history of communism, which encourages the lower class to rise up and overthrow/imprison/exile/kill the intellectual and economic elite.

If a nation's farmers kill all of its doctors, a la Cambodia -- yes, you're going to have some problems going forward.

If your business is run "democratically" or by government bureaucrats, rather than by an innovative and intelligent individual, like, say, an Elon Musk -- yes, it's going to be less successful on average.

Singapore is a great example of all of this in action. It's not a coincidence that the richest country in Southeast Asia is 75% Chinese. And it's not a coincidence that the country's wealth exploded after rejecting their former communist oriented system in favor of more of a free market republic, which allowed their innate strengths to flourish.

Just like in individuals, intelligence creates a slightly higher ceiling, but it means nothing without a system or ideology in place to harness it.

That's why someone with an IQ of 100 can outperform someone with an IQ of 120, and why a fairly high IQ society like China will struggle under ineffective governments but thrive in the proper environment.

Take a few million Chinese and put them in Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore, with the proper economic and political systems in place, and they become rich, advanced societies almost overnight.

Take a bunch of Europeans and send them to America, free them from monarchy and undue taxation, and you have one of the most successful civilizations in world history. Add some highly intelligent people from all over the world to the mix, and you're really cooking.

But infect them with Marxism and drop 50 million low IQ immigrants in their midst and they begin reverting back to the mean.

In that way, this James Watson story is actually a great analogy for IQ and society in general. When you let the mob rule of random dumb asses control the expression of your nation's geniuses, it's a recipe for disaster.

[R_Niko]

(09-11-2016 08:52 PM)rw95 Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 07:38 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

One need only look at conditions in every country in sub-Sahara Africa and Caribbean countries to see IQ differences are real and IQ matters.

Yes, because the Caribbean is SUCH a shithole.
It's not like there are countries in the Caribbean with majority-black populations doing better than nations in Eastern Europe and Asia in terms of average income.

Not saying you're wrong, but which countries?

[scotian]

^English speaking ones: Bermuda, Barbados, Bahamas, Cayman Islands, etc. They inherited a good form of goverance from the British and have decent economies based on tourism and finance (tax havens).

[Sombro]

(09-11-2016 11:06 PM)scotian Wrote:  

^English speaking ones: Bermuda, Barbados, Bahamas, Cayman Islands, etc. They inherited a good form of goverance from the British and have decent economies based on tourism and finance (tax havens).

It's been said that Caribbean countries that were former British colonies have it much better off than those that were French colonies.

[Enigma]

(09-11-2016 11:06 PM)scotian Wrote:  

^English speaking ones: Bermuda, Barbados, Bahamas, Cayman Islands, etc. They inherited a good form of goverance from the British and have decent economies based on tourism and finance (tax havens).

The combined population of those four countries is only roughly 800,000 though, and Bermuda isn't even in the Caribbean.

There's kind of a big difference between a major tourist destination with 60,000 residents and an Eastern European country with 2 million.

By comparison, the Philippines has over 100 million people, with 12+ million in Metro Manila alone.

[Phoenix]

Strange we need such a busy thread about this. Facts are facts.