[iknowexactly]

(10-18-2016 05:02 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

After a few days, I asked her for her number and said we should meet up for dinner (another mistake). She said she will think about it and later that day she replied "We should hang out as a group with other friends."

Difficult women remain difficult (Janka), all game is numbers game ( Roosh) , Go fuck ten other women (Mystery), Never believe excuses (Me) ,

[Hazaer]

(10-18-2016 04:57 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

On the topic of ignoring girls who ignore us, I am curious to know if there is a limit before they lose interest.

An ongoing experience of mine: There is this girl I know and I run into her often. She was giving me the eyes. Eventually she approached me and we started talking. My game was worse at that time so I started by talking about about work/study and she ended the convo. But she was still talking to me on later occasions so I assumed she was into me. After a few days, I asked her for her number and said we should meet up for dinner (another mistake). She said she will think about it and later that day she replied "We should hang out as a group with other friends." I took it as a No and deleted her number and didnt reply. This was about a year ago.

I intentionally ignored her and only talked to her out of necessity when I am with my circle of friends. It took a lot of discipline but I learnt that even refusing to acknowledge a girl who ignored you will only help you. After a while she started giving the same IOIs again from a distance but always avoided coming close to me. She did not attempt to talk to me but there was all kinds of IOIs whenever she was in my vicinity. I was still under the impression that she was trying to make me into an orbiter.

A few more months passed and she started to come closer to me whenever I was in the vicinity. All this time, I did not talk or communicate with her in any way. I must say I did some of the self improvement things mentioned in this forum like exercise, watched 'red pill' shows, improved posture reduced the smiling and increased approaches on other girls and I guess it showed. Some more time passed and now she positions herself so that she can see me when I come to class and then smiles upon seeing me. At this point, I started to think, that I could give it a second shot. I am still torn given Roosh philosophy of never getting rejected twice but I was debating maybe asking her to hang out with me when I am going for groceries or something.

But, it's hard to catch her alone. She is always with her friends. My first question is that, (a) given that this is still day game, approaching her when she is alone would yield the best chance but Would a girl who is interested detach, herself from her friends if she thinks that she wants to talk to you? I can't ask her to hang out when she is with friends but since she knows my schedule, would she isolate herself in the day which is easier to do? I am wondering if this can be used as a gauge to see if she is really interested.

Very recently, she suddenly switched her sitting position in class so that she has her back to me and her friend is facing me. And, I responded by ignoring her again. So, (b), What does this mean? Is this some kind of test?

A very long ramble, but what do you guys suggest I do? I am still waiting for the opportunity to catch her alone and ask her out but what do you think of her actions? It wont be a reject if she refuses a second time because its just shopping but still I dont want to waste any more time on her.

To answer (a), then do you agree that she is doing all these just to put me back in the friendzone and she could have made it easier for me to approach but is deliberately not doing so?

If the answer is yes, for (a), can I assume that (b) is also a shit test to see if I will act more needy if she tries to be dismissive?

[jcrew247]

(10-18-2016 07:12 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

(10-18-2016 04:57 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

But, it's hard to catch her alone. She is always with her friends. My first question is that, (a) given that this is still day game, approaching her when she is alone would yield the best chance but Would a girl who is interested detach, herself from her friends if she thinks that she wants to talk to you? I can't ask her to hang out when she is with friends but since she knows my schedule, would she isolate herself in the day which is easier to do? I am wondering if this can be used as a gauge to see if she is really interested.

Very recently, she suddenly switched her sitting position in class so that she has her back to me and her friend is facing me. And, I responded by ignoring her again. So, (b), What does this mean? Is this some kind of test?

A very long ramble, but what do you guys suggest I do? I am still waiting for the opportunity to catch her alone and ask her out but what do you think of her actions? It wont be a reject if she refuses a second time because its just shopping but still I dont want to waste any more time on her.

Are you in college? What is your age? It sounds like she's not that into you, and she's just messing with you and being flirty.

That being said, people change after a few years - they mature, where better clothes, dress better, and look better, and act more confident and less annoying. A guy is immature at 18 and annoying, but a guy can learn how to be more socially attractive by the time he is 20.

Just talk to her and say hello and make small talk. You don't need her number to talk to her. Can you contact her via facebook or snapchat or instagram? flirt with her through texting or messaging.

Are you trying to date her and get into a relationship? OR are you just trying to bang her and become friends with benefits? If this girl is slutty, it will probably be easier for you to just bang her soon and dump her. If you want a LTR with this girl, it may be difficult because it sounds like she doesn't really like you and is just semi-attracted to you as an orbiter and to make her feel better. She's just cock-teasing to give her a short-term emotional boost. Well, your goal should just be a short-term bang, cuz it sounds like she doesn't want an LTR with you.

[Sonoma]

Not sure if anyone's said it

Buy average girls are really easy to get if you're average looking

Super hot girls are very difficult to get if you're average looking

[Hazaer]

(10-18-2016 03:59 PM)jcrew247 Wrote:  

(10-18-2016 07:12 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

(10-18-2016 04:57 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

But, it's hard to catch her alone. She is always with her friends. My first question is that, (a) given that this is still day game, approaching her when she is alone would yield the best chance but Would a girl who is interested detach, herself from her friends if she thinks that she wants to talk to you? I can't ask her to hang out when she is with friends but since she knows my schedule, would she isolate herself in the day which is easier to do? I am wondering if this can be used as a gauge to see if she is really interested.

Very recently, she suddenly switched her sitting position in class so that she has her back to me and her friend is facing me. And, I responded by ignoring her again. So, (b), What does this mean? Is this some kind of test?

A very long ramble, but what do you guys suggest I do? I am still waiting for the opportunity to catch her alone and ask her out but what do you think of her actions? It wont be a reject if she refuses a second time because its just shopping but still I dont want to waste any more time on her.

Are you in college? What is your age? It sounds like she's not that into you, and she's just messing with you and being flirty.

That being said, people change after a few years - they mature, where better clothes, dress better, and look better, and act more confident and less annoying. A guy is immature at 18 and annoying, but a guy can learn how to be more socially attractive by the time he is 20.

Just talk to her and say hello and make small talk. You don't need her number to talk to her. Can you contact her via facebook or snapchat or instagram? flirt with her through texting or messaging.

Are you trying to date her and get into a relationship? OR are you just trying to bang her and become friends with benefits? If this girl is slutty, it will probably be easier for you to just bang her soon and dump her. If you want a LTR with this girl, it may be difficult because it sounds like she doesn't really like you and is just semi-attracted to you as an orbiter and to make her feel better. She's just cock-teasing to give her a short-term emotional boost. Well, your goal should just be a short-term bang, cuz it sounds like she doesn't want an LTR with you.

I am a postgrad in my mid 20 and so is she. Thing is, like the forum advocates, once you talk to a girl, you gotta escalate and that means taking her out, have drinks and bang. I see no point in small talk without action because that that might put me in the friend zone if she later decides not to hang out.

She is probably not relationship material. I later realized that she rejected me the first time because she was hanging out with some other guy. Thats why, I dont want to waste time going into her mind games.

She comes from a conservative background but seems to ditch people of her ethnicity and hangs out with caucasian girls. Kind of difficult to say if she is slutty or just a wannabe.

Anyway after, I ignored her, she kind of started avoiding me as well. Now, I am thinking a girl who is interested is going to want to chase the guy so you might be right. But I am not sure, so I am wondering if I should just keep it cool for now.

[jcrew247]

(10-19-2016 10:03 PM)Hazaer Wrote:  

I am a postgrad in my mid 20 and so is she. Thing is, like the forum advocates, once you talk to a girl, you gotta escalate and that means taking her out, have drinks and bang. I see no point in small talk without action because that that might put me in the friend zone if she later decides not to hang out.

She is probably not relationship material. I later realized that she rejected me the first time because she was hanging out with some other guy. Thats why, I dont want to waste time going into her mind games.

She comes from a conservative background but seems to ditch people of her ethnicity and hangs out with caucasian girls. Kind of difficult to say if she is slutty or just a wannabe.

Anyway after, I ignored her, she kind of started avoiding me as well. Now, I am thinking a girl who is interested is going to want to chase the guy so you might be right. But I am not sure, so I am wondering if I should just keep it cool for now.

I'm not sure what you are saying, seems like you are being indecisive. She seems flaky as well.
Perhaps, you should just try to date other women cuz she seems like a cock-tease.
If you are dating inter-racially there may be cultural differences that you are misunderstanding.

Are you even trying to talk to this girl, or are you just staring at her from across the room? Maybe its all in your head. If you make small talk with her for a few minutes, you can gage whether she is interested in getting a coffee or maybe a late-nite study session. YOu don't need to do dinner unless she is conservative. Ask her to do some sporty thing like running, get her heart rate elevated, and that usually makes women more attracted to men.

[Hazaer]

(10-20-2016 09:38 PM)jcrew247 Wrote:  

(10-19-2016 10:03 PM)Hazaer Wrote:  

I am a postgrad in my mid 20 and so is she. Thing is, like the forum advocates, once you talk to a girl, you gotta escalate and that means taking her out, have drinks and bang. I see no point in small talk without action because that that might put me in the friend zone if she later decides not to hang out.

She is probably not relationship material. I later realized that she rejected me the first time because she was hanging out with some other guy. Thats why, I dont want to waste time going into her mind games.

She comes from a conservative background but seems to ditch people of her ethnicity and hangs out with caucasian girls. Kind of difficult to say if she is slutty or just a wannabe.

Anyway after, I ignored her, she kind of started avoiding me as well. Now, I am thinking a girl who is interested is going to want to chase the guy so you might be right. But I am not sure, so I am wondering if I should just keep it cool for now.

I'm not sure what you are saying, seems like you are being indecisive. She seems flaky as well.
Perhaps, you should just try to date other women cuz she seems like a cock-tease.
If you are dating inter-racially there may be cultural differences that you are misunderstanding.

Are you even trying to talk to this girl, or are you just staring at her from across the room? Maybe its all in your head. If you make small talk with her for a few minutes, you can gage whether she is interested in getting a coffee or maybe a late-nite study session. YOu don't need to do dinner unless she is conservative. Ask her to do some sporty thing like running, get her heart rate elevated, and that usually makes women more attracted to men.

I am looking to approach her when she is alone so I can ask her to hang out. But the replies above agree that she is a waste of time and I think that is true. Unless she comes over to talk to me, I am probably going to next her. She is not shy, she just becomes very skittish when around me probably because of the earlier incident.

[jcrew247]

Is she on facebook? Just add her and send her a message - something light, like asking how her day is going and how her classes are going? If she responds back, then ask her to get a coffee or lunch some time. If she doens't respond back, then she is not interested in dating you.

What is your college major? Perhaps find some sort of out of class activity that pertains to your career goals that you can invite her to. But also keep your options open, and try to find other girls to date.

Also, girls like persistent men, especially if you have self-confidence and high-value. A lot of girls will automatically say no and reject a guy, because they don't know him very well. It may take several months and the right timing for a girl to warm up to a guy and feel comfortable around him. Some girls only prefer to date guys they trust and are friends with first before sleeping with them. Some girls Do Not want to be rushed or pressured into dating or sleeping with a guy they don't know.

So, maybe you had a bad first impression and she didn't like you. But after a year, you've changed and become more confident and dressed better and speak better. Now, she looks at you as an attractive man.

[jcrew247]

(10-22-2016 07:07 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

I am looking to approach her when she is alone so I can ask her to hang out. But the replies above agree that she is a waste of time and I think that is true. Unless she comes over to talk to me, I am probably going to next her. She is not shy, she just becomes very skittish when around me probably because of the earlier incident.

Also, I am not sure why you need to talk to her alone.
If you want to make small talk, then go and talk to her friends as well. Introduce yourself to her friends and obtain her friends approval.
Also, it will make her jealous if you are giving her friends more attention.
Social proof and social status also means having social proof from OTHER Women. That means that if a girl sees that you have a lot of female friends - then those female friends serve as validation that the guy has HIGH Social status. A woman wants to see a wing-woman give her approval that this guy is a cool, trustworthy dude that is not a serial killer.
So, instead of finding a way to isolate her, approach the group, or start a conversation with her friends. If her friends like you, then she will like you.

[Hazaer]

(10-22-2016 03:49 PM)jcrew247 Wrote:  

(10-22-2016 07:07 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

I am looking to approach her when she is alone so I can ask her to hang out. But the replies above agree that she is a waste of time and I think that is true. Unless she comes over to talk to me, I am probably going to next her. She is not shy, she just becomes very skittish when around me probably because of the earlier incident.

Also, I am not sure why you need to talk to her alone.
If you want to make small talk, then go and talk to her friends as well. Introduce yourself to her friends and obtain her friends approval.
Also, it will make her jealous if you are giving her friends more attention.
Social proof and social status also means having social proof from OTHER Women. That means that if a girl sees that you have a lot of female friends - then those female friends serve as validation that the guy has HIGH Social status. A woman wants to see a wing-woman give her approval that this guy is a cool, trustworthy dude that is not a serial killer.
So, instead of finding a way to isolate her, approach the group, or start a conversation with her friends. If her friends like you, then she will like you.

I know that she is the kind of girl who wants to know all the guys so that she can seem popular. Maybe that is the reason she was trying these tricks over the months so that she can smoothen things with me and finally move on from that incident.

Roosh has said that a guy should never be rejected twice, thats why I was thinking that its better that she takes the initiative before I approach her this time. But its a good idea to chat up her friend and build value. She only rolls around with this one particular girl and for some reason she is curious about me as well so I am not sure if she knows the story too.

This whole thing is just too messed up. One of the poster before said to the effect of, once a difficult girl, always a difficult girl.

[Hazaer]

(10-22-2016 02:18 PM)jcrew247 Wrote:  

Is she on facebook? Just add her and send her a message - something light, like asking how her day is going and how her classes are going? If she responds back, then ask her to get a coffee or lunch some time. If she doens't respond back, then she is not interested in dating you.

So, maybe you had a bad first impression and she didn't like you. But after a year, you've changed and become more confident and dressed better and speak better. Now, she looks at you as an attractive man.

Did that the first time and like I said, I dont really want to be rejected a second time and I think no guy should set himself up for that. What little frame he has might be totally gone after the second time.

She approached me the first time too. It has been some time since,but I dont really see how her 'interest' in me is different this time. Can't trust her again man. I might sound a bit harsh but 1 lesson I am learning over and over with girls is that, once the first interaction does not work, somehow any future ones are also bound to fail. That's why these days I am thinking that I should not be going for girls I might easily bump into again.

[jcrew247]

(10-23-2016 07:14 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

I know that she is the kind of girl who wants to know all the guys so that she can seem popular. Maybe that is the reason she was trying these tricks over the months so that she can smoothen things with me and finally move on from that incident.

Roosh has said that a guy should never be rejected twice, thats why I was thinking that its better that she takes the initiative before I approach her this time. But its a good idea to chat up her friend and build value. She only rolls around with this one particular girl and for some reason she is curious about me as well so I am not sure if she knows the story too.

This whole thing is just too messed up. One of the poster before said to the effect of, once a difficult girl, always a difficult girl.

(10-23-2016 07:23 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

Did that the first time and like I said, I dont really want to be rejected a second time and I think no guy should set himself up for that. What little frame he has might be totally gone after the second time.

She approached me the first time too. It has been some time since,but I dont really see how her 'interest' in me is different this time. Can't trust her again man. I might sound a bit harsh but 1 lesson I am learning over and over with girls is that, once the first interaction does not work, somehow any future ones are also bound to fail. That's why these days I am thinking that I should not be going for girls I might easily bump into again.

Asking a girl out on a date can put too much pressure on her, especially on a younger girl and if she doesn't find you attractive. IT takes some girls a longer time to Warm up to a guy so you gotta put the hours in and make her comfortable around you. Its called building a social circle of friends. Unless she completely ignores you, then there is value in keeping her around to talk to and be friends with. You don't want to be the lonely guy with no friends. Alpha men with High Status are friendly to everyone they meet and talk to everyone. They don't shut girls away just because of rejection.

It sounds like you have a wimpy-mindset and negative mindset. Have you taken any business classes? Have you ever worked in sales? If you were a salesman, would you refuse to knock on doors just because one customer rejected you. No, its your job to talk to every customer and make the sales pitch, even if you get rejected 9 out of 10 times.

There are even some customers that reject you, but then need more time to think about it, and then agree to the sale. How many times have you changed your mind, and bought something later.

So, I wouldn't dwell on not getting rejected twice. That's a loser-thinking mindset. If a girl ignores you completely, then you have no 2nd chance. But if she is still friendly and willing to talk to you, then there is always a chance in the future to escalate to kissing.

As for going on dinner dates, most young people find it easier and cheaper to just hang out at a party and drink beers. So instead of asking girls out for dinner dates, just say lets grab some beers or watch a movie or listen to a band. Your goal is not a dinner date. Your goal is creating a relationship through texting, email, phone-calls, chatting over coffee - which will eventually lead to kissing and sex.

But if you just want to go out on dinner dates, then find older women and buy them jewelry and flowers. Go on some dating websites.

[Hazaer]

(10-23-2016 12:34 PM)jcrew247 Wrote:  

(10-23-2016 07:14 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

I know that she is the kind of girl who wants to know all the guys so that she can seem popular. Maybe that is the reason she was trying these tricks over the months so that she can smoothen things with me and finally move on from that incident.

Roosh has said that a guy should never be rejected twice, thats why I was thinking that its better that she takes the initiative before I approach her this time. But its a good idea to chat up her friend and build value. She only rolls around with this one particular girl and for some reason she is curious about me as well so I am not sure if she knows the story too.

This whole thing is just too messed up. One of the poster before said to the effect of, once a difficult girl, always a difficult girl.

(10-23-2016 07:23 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

Did that the first time and like I said, I dont really want to be rejected a second time and I think no guy should set himself up for that. What little frame he has might be totally gone after the second time.

She approached me the first time too. It has been some time since,but I dont really see how her 'interest' in me is different this time. Can't trust her again man. I might sound a bit harsh but 1 lesson I am learning over and over with girls is that, once the first interaction does not work, somehow any future ones are also bound to fail. That's why these days I am thinking that I should not be going for girls I might easily bump into again.

Asking a girl out on a date can put too much pressure on her, especially on a younger girl and if she doesn't find you attractive. IT takes some girls a longer time to Warm up to a guy so you gotta put the hours in and make her comfortable around you. Its called building a social circle of friends. Unless she completely ignores you, then there is value in keeping her around to talk to and be friends with. You don't want to be the lonely guy with no friends. Alpha men with High Status are friendly to everyone they meet and talk to everyone. They don't shut girls away just because of rejection.

It sounds like you have a wimpy-mindset and negative mindset. Have you taken any business classes? Have you ever worked in sales? If you were a salesman, would you refuse to knock on doors just because one customer rejected you. No, its your job to talk to every customer and make the sales pitch, even if you get rejected 9 out of 10 times.

There are even some customers that reject you, but then need more time to think about it, and then agree to the sale. How many times have you changed your mind, and bought something later.

So, I wouldn't dwell on not getting rejected twice. That's a loser-thinking mindset. If a girl ignores you completely, then you have no 2nd chance. But if she is still friendly and willing to talk to you, then there is always a chance in the future to escalate to kissing.

As for going on dinner dates, most young people find it easier and cheaper to just hang out at a party and drink beers. So instead of asking girls out for dinner dates, just say lets grab some beers or watch a movie or listen to a band. Your goal is not a dinner date. Your goal is creating a relationship through texting, email, phone-calls, chatting over coffee - which will eventually lead to kissing and sex.

But if you just want to go out on dinner dates, then find older women and buy them jewelry and flowers. Go on some dating websites.

A lot of these things in the forum offer contradictory advice. What I read in day bang is to talk to a girl, establish connection, get the number and call her for a date. I admit that a dinner date wasnt appropriate as much as having a coffee would have been. And if she refuses to meet, the common advice is to next her. We have to have that abundance mentality and that means letting go and looking outwards. I find that thinking too much about girls who didnt respond is just a waste of time when there are other girls out there who give may more positive responses off the bat.

I am ok with being an acquaintance to her but I am not going out of my way to converse with her just because she is giving me the eyes again. Previous posts mention that that any further interaction has to serve to increase my value to her and that can mean demonstrating value by chatting up other girls or teasing her. I will definitely look into doing that when I am in her vicinity.

[Cobra]

I think the obvious gap I see in some of the posts in this thread is "Inner Game." WIA touched on it in the earlier pages by noting it as "mindset."

It's easy to do as many approaches as possible, get the mechanics of the approach as good as possible and even get as many numbers as possible.

However, the issue comes down to your value, your time and your goals. An obsession with game and girls can wear down other parts of your value. For example, if you are not especially successful and not happy with that, why focus on women so much? If you have a hard time socially, even with men, why focus only on girls and approaches? My point is, why take focus away from important parts of your life that add value to YOU? For notches or bangs?

The most successful gamers I know are also the most successful they possibly can be outside of game. They are able to brush it off and move to the next thing in their life flawlessly. Why? Because rejection doesn't matter to them. It's just another stel towards a goal.

The reason that these men are successful is because of their inner game, not their number of approaches or notch count. They are good at "brushing it off." That's why they're good.

How you handle a rejection or "attitude" makes your game good. It's not the approaches or notch count that accomplishes this, because these things are easier to control than your attitude towards them.

My own experience in sales briefly (so you know this comes from a genuine place): I came from Finance and Accounting (10 years). I have been doing sales for 2 years. At this point, I'm one of the top sales people in the company. Reason: I was rejected more times than the guys that didn't put themselves in the place to get rejected AND I learned from each of them AND moved on without obsessing and blaming myself for them. I can write more about this experience if anyone is interested.

[jcrew247]

(10-26-2016 07:43 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

A lot of these things in the forum offer contradictory advice. What I read in day bang is to talk to a girl, establish connection, get the number and call her for a date. I admit that a dinner date wasnt appropriate as much as having a coffee would have been.

And if she refuses to meet, the common advice is to next her. We have to have that abundance mentality and that means letting go and looking outwards. I find that thinking too much about girls who didnt respond is just a waste of time when there are other girls out there who give may more positive responses off the bat.

I am ok with being an acquaintance to her but I am not going out of my way to converse with her just because she is giving me the eyes again. Previous posts mention that that any further interaction has to serve to increase my value to her and that can mean demonstrating value by chatting up other girls or teasing her. I will definitely look into doing that when I am in her vicinity.

Its weird that some things work for some guys and not for others. Different things work for different guys depending on the situation. One thing about gaming is social awareness and flexibility. You are always going to be talking to different people/girls, with different attitudes and life experiences and expectations. One thing you can try is if something is not working for you, then do the exact opposite and see if improves.

I've read that some guys think they smile too much, so they try not to smile. But in my experience, especially for ugly guys and non-white male model guys, then girls will avoid you if you aren't conventionally good looking and have a scary, resting serial-killer angry-face. Smiling and introducing yourself is a good way to earn trust and comfort with women who have negative prejudices about men. Its basic Sales 101.

Some PUA books may have been written 10 years ago, and I would say girls under 30 are way more liberal and open-minded about casual sex and juggling multiple boyfriends. If you are in college, everyone just hooks up and casually dates - there is no formal dinner unless you are going to the college cafeteria, and broke students don't have money to go to fancy restaurants. But I'm sure if you really want to impress a girl, you can pay for her dinner at a fancy italian restaurant. But now, you just use Tinder, send some flirty text messages and set up a casual bang if she's in the mood.

I don't know if you have to NEXT women, just put them in the back of the queue. Maybe the girl is not in the mood or she is hooking up with another guy. But 3 months later, she is single again and willing to have a ONS with you. I think one good thing I read in Neal Strauss is to never get overtly angry over a woman because anger is unattractive.

Of course, you can be subtly angry and some women will be nicer to men because they don't want them to be angry at her. But it still might not mean she wants to bang him. She's just trying to preserve her reputation as a nice person.

But, are there other women that you can date? You seem to have oneitis on this girl who refuses to talk to you. If you really think she changed her mind, then just go talk to her and make small talk like ask her how her classes are going. If she responds positively by smiling then perhaps she wants to pursue a platonic friendship. Text her on facebook, and say you want help on homework, or ask her if she wants help on homework.

Find out what her hobbies are and what she likes to do, find out what music she likes. I find that most girls like to talk about things that interest them, rather than faking conversations about sports with men. If she is younger than you, then use your age and wealth as an advantage to impress younger women.

[jcrew247]

I would also say that its difficult for a non-white guy dating white girls in small towns especially if there is a lot of prejudice and discrimination against non-whites and asian people. These white girls are going to have high shields and barriers against talking to and dating non-white men. Its going to take a lot of effort and high energy, along with excellent communication skills. You are going to have to earn their trust and comfort because these white girls don't want to marry or have an LTR with a non-white guy.

To establish trust, comfort and friendship with white girls and pursue a relationship you have to work on creating an actual friendship. Forget about dating or sex, work on creating a trusting platonic friendship, before escalating to a sexual relationship. Inter-racial dating succeeds when there is a strong mutual interest, such as the same religion, same job, or same college. Focus on day gaming at safe places that women don't feel sexually harassed. Sit down at a coffee shop and make small talk with some of the girls there. Talk to girls at the gym or yoga class. Talk to girls at the library or in your classes. Talk to the average and fat white girls that don't get any male attention, because they will be more willing to talk to you because they have low self-esteem. The hotter white girls will only talk to alpha men with high confidence. Try to have a compatible lifestyle with the girls you want to date. If you are a hippie, skateboarder, stoner dude or a guitar player you will be able to attract the liberal artsy feminist girls who like music.

[Hazaer]

(10-26-2016 09:18 AM)Cobra Wrote:  

I think the obvious gap I see in some of the posts in this thread is "Inner Game." WIA touched on it in the earlier pages by noting it as "mindset."

It's easy to do as many approaches as possible, get the mechanics of the approach as good as possible and even get as many numbers as possible.

However, the issue comes down to your value, your time and your goals. An obsession with game and girls can wear down other parts of your value. For example, if you are not especially successful and not happy with that, why focus on women so much? If you have a hard time socially, even with men, why focus only on girls and approaches? My point is, why take focus away from important parts of your life that add value to YOU? For notches or bangs?

The most successful gamers I know are also the most successful they possibly can be outside of game. They are able to brush it off and move to the next thing in their life flawlessly. Why? Because rejection doesn't matter to them. It's just another stel towards a goal.

The reason that these men are successful is because of their inner game, not their number of approaches or notch count. They are good at "brushing it off." That's why they're good.

How you handle a rejection or "attitude" makes your game good. It's not the approaches or notch count that accomplishes this, because these things are easier to control than your attitude towards them.

My own experience in sales briefly (so you know this comes from a genuine place): I came from Finance and Accounting (10 years). I have been doing sales for 2 years. At this point, I'm one of the top sales people in the company. Reason: I was rejected more times than the guys that didn't put themselves in the place to get rejected AND I learned from each of them AND moved on without obsessing and blaming myself for them. I can write more about this experience if anyone is interested.

What do you think inner game and how can it be achieved in your opinion?

Can a guy who is very independent and have little friends despite having a lot of acquaintances still have good frame and game? Sometimes a lack of friends could mean no common interests, age gaps and even intellectual gaps.

On rejection, lets take two scenarios and see how you can react without looking butt hurt.

1. Good rapport formed. You ask her out and she rejects. How would your future interaction with her be?

2. No rapport formed at all. She is dismissive of you. How would your future interaction be?

[Hazaer]

(10-26-2016 11:12 PM)jcrew247 Wrote:  

I would also say that its difficult for a non-white guy dating white girls in small towns especially if there is a lot of prejudice and discrimination against non-whites and asian people. These white girls are going to have high shields and barriers against talking to and dating non-white men. Its going to take a lot of effort and high energy, along with excellent communication skills. You are going to have to earn their trust and comfort because these white girls don't want to marry or have an LTR with a non-white guy.

To establish trust, comfort and friendship with white girls and pursue a relationship you have to work on creating an actual friendship. Forget about dating or sex, work on creating a trusting platonic friendship, before escalating to a sexual relationship. Inter-racial dating succeeds when there is a strong mutual interest, such as the same religion, same job, or same college. Focus on day gaming at safe places that women don't feel sexually harassed. Sit down at a coffee shop and make small talk with some of the girls there. Talk to girls at the gym or yoga class. Talk to girls at the library or in your classes. Talk to the average and fat white girls that don't get any male attention, because they will be more willing to talk to you because they have low self-esteem. The hotter white girls will only talk to alpha men with high confidence. Try to have a compatible lifestyle with the girls you want to date. If you are a hippie, skateboarder, stoner dude or a guitar player you will be able to attract the liberal artsy feminist girls who like music.

May I ask what is your background and where you are based? I look latino and being in a small town, I do generate some interest but very poor game seems to let me down. Am not in the hipster scene though.

Contrary to what you say, I find that girls from the country are more inclined to be into inter racial. White girls going for oriental guys which is pretty rare in this forum. But like you say, slow paced day game seems to be the way to go in these cases where the guys cannot be particularly described as hunks.

Looking back, it would have been better to have invested in day game rather than night game unless the social circle is strong.

[jcrew247]

(10-27-2016 08:43 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

(10-26-2016 11:12 PM)jcrew247 Wrote:  

I would also say that its difficult for a non-white guy dating white girls in small towns especially if there is a lot of prejudice and discrimination against non-whites and asian people. These white girls are going to have high shields and barriers against talking to and dating non-white men. Its going to take a lot of effort and high energy, along with excellent communication skills. You are going to have to earn their trust and comfort because these white girls don't want to marry or have an LTR with a non-white guy.

To establish trust, comfort and friendship with white girls and pursue a relationship you have to work on creating an actual friendship. Forget about dating or sex, work on creating a trusting platonic friendship, before escalating to a sexual relationship. Inter-racial dating succeeds when there is a strong mutual interest, such as the same religion, same job, or same college. Focus on day gaming at safe places that women don't feel sexually harassed. Sit down at a coffee shop and make small talk with some of the girls there. Talk to girls at the gym or yoga class. Talk to girls at the library or in your classes. Talk to the average and fat white girls that don't get any male attention, because they will be more willing to talk to you because they have low self-esteem. The hotter white girls will only talk to alpha men with high confidence. Try to have a compatible lifestyle with the girls you want to date. If you are a hippie, skateboarder, stoner dude or a guitar player you will be able to attract the liberal artsy feminist girls who like music.

May I ask what is your background and where you are based? I look latino and being in a small town, I do generate some interest but very poor game seems to let me down. Am not in the hipster scene though.

Contrary to what you say, I find that girls from the country are more inclined to be into inter racial. White girls going for oriental guys which is pretty rare in this forum. But like you say, slow paced day game seems to be the way to go in these cases where the guys cannot be particularly described as hunks.

Looking back, it would have been better to have invested in day game rather than night game unless the social circle is strong.

Honestly, you kinda sound like a boring guy. What are your hobbies, what is your major? Many guys are boring and this hurts them attract women because women find them boring to talk to and boring to hang out with. At least hipster guys are into music and other fun stuff. Remember, that girls decide to date guys based on emotions and an emotional connection. Gaming is about generating an emotional response out of nothing, through conversation skills. Do you play sports? Are you able to do any activities that are co-ed and allow you to interact with girls?

The key to talking to girls, is that you ACTUALLY have to enjoy talking to girls. This means any time you see someone new, try striking up a conversation - introduce yourself, your name, ask for their name, ask where they are from. You are an exchange student, and if you want to date white women, you will have to be excited to learn about white culture, western culture, and australian culture. These white women will like the fact that you are taking an interest in their culture and lifestyle. A lot of girls enjoy being teachers and helping people adapt to a new country. But it takes communication skills and a lot of energy to introduce yourself to women.

You will also have more luck with women if you grow your social circle. Women will prefer to date men they know in real life, rather than meeting weird guys at bars. If you are a boring guy, you may have more luck with boring religious nice girls. You can meet these religious girls by attending a catholic church or some other religious event. Usually a minister tries to set up catholic singles and will be more than happy to help introduce you to single women. Churches and ministers are really into marrying people and growing families. Mormons are really into getting married young and having babies.

[Cobra]

(10-27-2016 08:26 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

(10-26-2016 09:18 AM)Cobra Wrote:  

I think the obvious gap I see in some of the posts in this thread is "Inner Game." WIA touched on it in the earlier pages by noting it as "mindset."

It's easy to do as many approaches as possible, get the mechanics of the approach as good as possible and even get as many numbers as possible.

However, the issue comes down to your value, your time and your goals. An obsession with game and girls can wear down other parts of your value. For example, if you are not especially successful and not happy with that, why focus on women so much? If you have a hard time socially, even with men, why focus only on girls and approaches? My point is, why take focus away from important parts of your life that add value to YOU? For notches or bangs?

The most successful gamers I know are also the most successful they possibly can be outside of game. They are able to brush it off and move to the next thing in their life flawlessly. Why? Because rejection doesn't matter to them. It's just another stel towards a goal.

The reason that these men are successful is because of their inner game, not their number of approaches or notch count. They are good at "brushing it off." That's why they're good.

How you handle a rejection or "attitude" makes your game good. It's not the approaches or notch count that accomplishes this, because these things are easier to control than your attitude towards them.

My own experience in sales briefly (so you know this comes from a genuine place): I came from Finance and Accounting (10 years). I have been doing sales for 2 years. At this point, I'm one of the top sales people in the company. Reason: I was rejected more times than the guys that didn't put themselves in the place to get rejected AND I learned from each of them AND moved on without obsessing and blaming myself for them. I can write more about this experience if anyone is interested.

What do you think inner game and how can it be achieved in your opinion?

I can give you my opinion but it has to do with my own experience. I'm an Indian guy who immigrated from India fresh off the boat to the USA when I was 12 and had to toil hard to assimilate and still keep my identity. I still struggle to a certain extent but recognize the gaps better than I ever did. I have gotten positive reactions from women of all races albeit more in some categories than others. Your experience may be different.

That said, first thing you need before you achieve or start something to achieve it is: a goal. So what is your goal? Do you want to a well dressed guy? Do you want to make a lot of money? Do you want to be more spontaneous in conversations, funny and articulate? Do you want to have a good physique? Do you want healthy relationships with friends (other men)? What do you want from all of these? Each of them are very important but you can make up by having more in any other category. That to me is inner game.

You HAVE to be able to not only answer this but also know where you are at versus where you want to be. The other challenge is knowing yourself. The easy part is that every single thing I mentioned above is controllable. YET, guys that fail on any of these components are the ones that focus on the uncontrollable. What I mean by this is: height, race, accent (to some extent). You can easily take yourself out of the loser category by avoiding the uncontrollable. It won’t change but most genuine people don’t care, especially men. Women are a different story, but you should stop giving a fuck about the ones that care about the things you can’t control, because it’s impossibly unfair.

Quote:

Can a guy who is very independent and have little friends despite having a lot of acquaintances still have good frame and game? Sometimes a lack of friends could mean no common interests, age gaps and even intellectual gaps.

I don’t know man. This is dicey. I question guys that don’t have friends. Healthy relationships with other men are absolutely necessary in my opinion. What I mean is that you need someone to bust your balls and tell you when you fuck up. You need someone to laugh at you when you fuck up. You could also use someone to tell you to get back up and fight when you fall down (and fuck up). If you don’t get this from your “acquaintances,” why are you wasting your time?

I have friends who I have HUGE common interest, age and intellectual gaps with. Lot of them are on the forum. It’s your ability to relate to people in general that’s in question. You don’t get a pass for not building relationships with those you have nothing in common with. To me, it just doesn’t work. I mean, I’m an Indian guy that is friends with white, black, Asian and other Indian people. I have an intellectual gap with lot of them, whether over or under. I don’t make excuses to not meet people because of superficial bullshit like “intellectual gaps.” You shouldn’t either.

Quote:

On rejection, lets take two scenarios and see how you can react without looking butt hurt.

1. Good rapport formed. You ask her out and she rejects. How would your future interaction with her be? Treat her like you treat others. Nothing more or less.

2. No rapport formed at all. She is dismissive of you. How would your future interaction be? Be dismissive of her another words ignore her.

I answered your questions above in bold red. Welcome to life. Rejection is unfair but not in how you handle it. I’ve been butt hurt enough times to know it stings. You need to learn how to move on. People that reject you will not magically add value to your life the next day. So leave them and move on to find those that add value to you and you can add value to. If you don’t do this, you will automatically dwell on the previous rejections and mind fuck yourself into self-pity.

I know this is a lot it may have sounded abrasive. However, I have the best of intentions with any of this and don’t mean to come across as attacking you, because I’m not.

[John_Galt]

I haven't read the whole thread, so maybe someone else has already said this. Even if they have, it's worth repeating.

Stop using terms like "kino" and "IOI". The words themselves are not an issue, its the thought process behind them. I don't care how Neil Strauss portrayed them in "The Game", in real life, PUA's are NOT high value. They are low value. While women love BEING gamed, they hate FEELING gamed. It makes them feel cheap.

Your mindset appears (based on the language of your post) to be based on trying to GET something from them. NO ONE, and this includes women---appreciate being used. Now, of course that's what you're trying to do, but when you come ACROSS this way, it's a major turn-off.

Quit thinking like a PUA and start thinking like a guy who likes pretty women. I know this won't make much sense to you now (you don't understand the difference) but trust me, women do. Don't try so hard.

[jcrew247]

(10-27-2016 08:26 AM)Hazaer Wrote:  

What do you think inner game and how can it be achieved in your opinion?

Can a guy who is very independent and have little friends despite having a lot of acquaintances still have good frame and game? Sometimes a lack of friends could mean no common interests, age gaps and even intellectual gaps.

On rejection, lets take two scenarios and see how you can react without looking butt hurt.

1. Good rapport formed. You ask her out and she rejects. How would your future interaction with her be?

2. No rapport formed at all. She is dismissive of you. How would your future interaction be?

You have to understand that just because a girl stares at you does not mean she wants to sleep with you. For newbies, it takes on average at least 5 hours of talking to a girl before she will even consider sleeping with you.

So, your problem is that you lack the conversation skills to flirt with women. Don't worry so much about getting dinner dates, especially if it is a girl you see all the time. Just focus on having good conversations and flirting. This means smiling, saying hello, good morning, asking how their day is going, what music they listen to, etc.

Focus on getting phone numbers and facebook accounts so you can send flirty text messages and build up trust and comfort.

Practice talking to strangers, even ugly girls that you don't find attractive. Practice having conversations with everyone you meet.

Your problem may be different cultures or different language difficulties.
It takes a lot of time talking to girls before they even like you. Don't rush things too early, like asking her for a dinner date, because a girl will reject you.

[jcrew247]

Nidall, did you say you work in finance? Do you work in insurance?
Seems like they are always hiring. It seems more about utilizing personal friends network to sell insurance to friends and family. (sort of like amway)

A few of my friends have tried to hire me to join their insurance companies. Not sure if its what I want to do, but I suppose its more sales-oriented than numbers-oriented. Do you know anything about the insurance industry and how the jobs are?

[Hazaer]

I have a question about gaming in college parties. There was a girl who was giving the eyes on quite a few occasions but I didn't approach. There was a party at a bar on campus and I saw her again, drinking with friends. I approached when she was isolated and started using some material mainly, introducing myself saying we have seen each other a few times, a joke then asked the color of her eyes (credit to Vicky Christie Barcelona), had some light kino held her hands etc. But suddenly, she said 'she wants to dance' and just left to find her friends.

What do you guys infer from this? Should I have asked her to dance instead of talking to her or was she not interested and was attention whoring all this while?

Thank you for your replies.

[ksbms]

(09-11-2016 10:40 AM)robreke Wrote:  

I use "excuse me" quite often on direct or indirect approaches. Most of the time, it works fine for me. While perhaps not the most 'alpha' or gamey way to open, it's a socially acceptable way to get someone's attention.

Then, I'll either follow with a direct opener statement or my indirect opener (usually an innocuous question).

So, "excuse me" for me has worked well more often than not. As with anything in communication with a new girl. It's not what you say but how you say it, your body language and initial eye contact as well as, of course, your look.

While I have no doubt this "instant blowout" type of thing is worse in the USA than other countries, it shouldn't be the norm if you've maximized your SMV.

OP, it would be helpful to know a little more about you. Have you maximized your SMV in terms of looks? (in shape, nice fitted clothes, etc?)

If this is a regular response from attractive girls you're approaching more than not, perhaps it's something you can improve upon by working on your looks so they'll be more receptive.

Also, it's tougher to stop women and get their attention and compliance who are walking somewhere and in a hurry than a woman who is standing still looking at pickles on the grocery store shelf, for example.

Finally, would James Bond curse a girl out for rejecting him? No, he'd smirk, lazily roll his eyes and walk away with a chuckle. Don't do that.

This. I couldn't agree more.

As a pre-opener, 'excuse me', does its job by redirecting girls attention. It's polite, it's neutral, and a polite and socially adjusted person will address you. What matters really is all the other elements - how you present yourself, that is your confidence, eye-contact, body language, dress style, and how you look - is there something in there that she might fancy? The exact opener is rather secondary to the former elements. If I open strong - getting in front of her, good eye-contact, standing close and with a good vibe - I always get the girl to stop and give me a minute of her time. The opener did it's job. I'm ready to stack. However, If I feel with no vibe, bad weather, side open, voice not clear and loud enough, I get dismissed sometimes curtly (ironically, usually from lesser girls but that's another story).

All in all - you can't be taken by girls as an Alpha if you're acting beta.