[MathGuy]

Thoughts on Text Game

When I reflect on my experiences in game so far, one thing that sticks out is that the worst recent experiences I've ever received from girls has occurred through texting. Within the last few months, I have never had any truly negative confrontational experience in person. I can chalk that up to the fact that I'm pretty confident these days, and give off a "too intense to easily fuck with" vibe.

(Possible Causes For My Bad Texting Experiences)

-In contrast to "live" interactions, there isn't much feedback to easily interpret, which makes calibration hard. The tone of someone's text can be very different from their actual emotions.

-It can be difficult to distinguish between silence as a result of busyness/unavailability and silence as a result of them being put off.

-People in general feel more comfortable with spewing negativity to others who aren't right there with them.

-I tend to be very, very verbose. My texts can easily look 5 times larger than the other person if I don't deliberately edit it down, and the mismatch can make me look weird.

-Sometimes I apply the "don't think before you speak" mindset to texting. It helps in real life because it unstifles me and makes me much smoother. I can also easily calibrate to any "mistakes" I make, by simply observing the other person's reaction. In texting, it's possible to not find out a mistake was a mistake until hours/days/weeks/etc later.

-In texting, any mistakes you met can be met with either silence or negativity. When it happens, any additional texts you send can be like walking on thin ice, which can be a huge pain in the ass when it happens while you're busy with something, which in turn makes it harder to deal with any problems smoothly.


(Some changes I'll consider implementing)

-One funny change I thought of making was to only check messages when I'm on the toilet, and never at any other point in the day. I can adjust this a bit to something like only checking it when I'm alone and there's nothing else to do, but what do you guys think of this?

-When it comes to girls I'm trying to get with, follow the common advice of restricting it to logistics only.

-Have notifications disabled, and have the text message app out of plain sight whenever I open my phone. This will make me feel less needy.

-Be aware of any possible subcommunications that can play a large part, like the length of my text when compared with hers, or the style of my writing when compared to hers.

In RSD Todd's "Text and Dates Machine" resource, he put out a few ideas I'm currently trying to implement.

-Be aware of your "social capital" at every point in the interaction. Whenever you send a text, be aware of the fact that you're spending some social capital.

-In dealing with silence, feel free to "ping value into the void." This means that you can send out funny pics / interesting anecdotes every now and then, which bumps your social capital up. I've employed this strategy successfully to revive numbers I previously thought were dead.

(There were a few other things I learned that I can't recall off the top of my head. Let me check again and write another post).

[MathGuy]

Changes I'll Implement To My Texting and General Phone Use When It Comes To Game

-At most, my text messages should only be a little longer, and a little more formal. This is to make sure there isn't a subconsciously debilitating mismatch.

-The time it takes for me to send a reply back should be at least ~90% of the time it took a girl to reply to me. While I don't have to be so detailed, an extreme example would be refusing to reply in seconds if she takes hours or days to reply.

-Whenever I reply, I should limit myself to only two texts of similar length to hers. This is so that I don't look like I'm putting in too much effort.

-I'll only check Textra (my text messaging app) once a day, in a single session at night. This is one of the most important changes I'll make. It will encourage me to engage everything else I do with full engagement, because my focus won't get broken so often. I've found that when I wait for that notification sound, or when I take a peek at Textra to see if I received any text, I feel unhealthily needy.

-If I sent a text that did require some sort of reply, I should wait at least two days before sending a restart text.

-For every text message I send, I should be able to easily explain the underlying purpose behind why I sent it.

-In situations where I have low "social capital" and am often met with silence, I should "ping value into the void" every few days or so, by sending funny pictures or amusing anecdotes that don't require a reply.

-Remember that the underlying objective is to get her to meet me in person. I can occasionally pepper the threads with humor and anecdotes that can enhance her disposition towards me, but I should keep in mind that anything involving emotional nuance can always be done better in person. Any jokes or funny anecdotes send through text should be simple, brief, and effortless.

-Fish and test for interest before closing. A hard close (hey, you should go out with me to this concert next week?) can often be met with silence or an excuse. I should employ soft closes - "so you're into concerts?.....alt-rock?....I'm heading to one in a couple of weeks, tell me if you want to tag along.")

-I'll make use of the drafts feature on my Android phone to prep texts to be sent at certain times. For instance, under a girl's thread, I may have "Wednesday, Inform about music concert to attend in two weeks"). This is so that I don't have to send anything I want to send immediately, and can easily track what I want to send.

[MathGuy]

I feel like an idiot right now.

In my first post in this thread, I described the fact that my neighborhood and the surrounding areas are a terrible place to game because of demographics. While I definitely was right about the streets and venues, I completely forgot the fact that there is a nearby large university filled with people from different parts of the country. It's within ~30 minutes walking distance.

I'm on the campus right now. It's an awful rainy day, but I see quite a few girls here who are just up my alley. I did visit this place in the summer of last year, but it was pretty empty so no approaches were done, and somehow forgot to visit again. Thankfully, I have relatively easy access.

Right now my style as an outsider to this place is to employ indirect verbals and screen based on body language who could be more likely to be DTF. I'll then employ light touches to screen further. If I bothered to go to this place last year, I probably would have been tempted to employ the spam approach humorous style employed by SimplePickup, but I don't want to attract too much attention (for now, at least).

[MathGuy]

It's past time that I describe a couple of the successes I had last Saturday. Later that same day, I met with a forum member. He turned out to be quite a bit younger (and more soft-spoken) than expected, though he still had quite a lot of knowledge to share when it came to game and personal development in general. It was the first time I ever met someone through the Internet.

While taking the 7 train, this Asian girl boarded and stood next to me. I decided to casually open by complimenting her style - leather jacket, confident, not shy/passive like most Asian girls. She was Asian American. We conversed about various topics - our educational background, cultural norms, the Asian American experience. Apparently she was planning on meeting with friends, but they flaked on her, so she decided to just visit a couple of places in the city before heading back home. This black lady next us interjected a couple of times about what we were talking about, and laughed when I told her she could have my number. The train was crowded and there were quite a few people in close proximity, some of them clearly paying attention. When some people got off, I noticed that there was space available if the man next to her would move over, so I asked him to move over, and as the interaction began to end, I lightly touched her, and even put my arm around her for a bit while making strong eye contact, noting that she didn't react in any overtly negative way (we continued conversing). As a last second decision, before she left, I decided to try to kiss close her, but she didn't reciprocate. At the same time, she didn't have any obvious negative reaction, and we wished each other goodbye in a positive non-tense way.

She did send me an initial text while we were conversing, so that I could have her number as well. However, she hasn't replied to any of mine since. I did try giving her a call this past Monday night to ask her out, but she didn't pickup. I'll employ a restart text some time next week and see if she bites.

Reflection: While I may never see her again, this was a pretty nice experience overall. This was my first real approach done on a train, which is good because it helped shatter reservations about me approaching on the subway, which means I'll be far less hesitant to do so from now on. The girl had a positive disposition speech and body language wise. It made me break certain comfort zones when it comes to approaching when people are nearby, and employing physicality. I wonder if my physicality towards the end scared her off from replying to my texts, but there were no obvious signs that it did. This cute white girl across from us seemed to be eying me, and I went a bit of an extra mile by doing an indirect opener on her after the Asian girl left. She gave good eye contact, and smiled quite a bit while conversing with me, but rejected the soft number close I made before she left.

Later on, after I got out of the subway, I approached this blond white girl who wore standard gym attire (black tank, sweatpants; not sure if she actually was going to the gym though). Gave her a tap on the shoulder from behind to get her attention. If I recall correctly, I said a generic "hey, I know this is really random, but I thought you're really attractive and wanted to come talk to you......I'm sure you're busy so can we have a quick 2 minute chat?" I then found out she goes to NYU, and is apparently a math major. I connected by explaining my background. A couple minutes in, I said "before you go, can we exchange numbers?" She said something along the lines of "yeah, I have to go meet with friends right now." We wished each other goodbye and walked our separate ways.

Reflection: I hope I don't sound like I'm pedestalizing, but it's rare to meet an attractive blond who's also a math major. The set went by very quickly, and felt a bit too easy. No negativity, no strong positivity. It felt pretty flat overall. I suspected that she would be flaky over text, and I turned out to be right, because she hasn't responded at all so far (assuming I even got a real number). I'll employ a restart text next week and see if anything happens.

[MathGuy]

For the month of October, I've decided to run a personality experiment. In the past couple years, I've generally been a very open, clownish, positive person. I tend to be that loud guy in the room who enjoys making jokes for the sake of making jokes. I also tend to shun negativity and my impression is that sometimes I'm so down-to-earth that I might as well be in hell. My behavior, for a time, sort of resembled Erlich Bachman from Silicon Valley. Whenever I've had episodes of inner negativity, I've tended to either refuse to engage in socialization whatsoever, or find myself uncontrollably acting positive out of habit, or find myself venting through writing and confiding in people I'm close to. As with any other personality types, mine has its upsides and downsides, and contrary to what this post might make you think, I'm pretty content with it.

However, I also think it would be useful to know when to not reveal too much - to be mysterious and let people's imaginations run wild. I also think it would be useful to not uncontrollably clown around so much, and be comfortable with expressing negativity in a non-butthurt way.

So, until the start of November, I'm going to:

-Deliberately try to be more mysterious and closed and 'cool.' Ask less questions, make more statements, be less revealing in my answers. At the same time, I will also speak slower and make sure my words are being heard and understood.

-Deliberately display the serious, more aloof side of my personality. Also, I often have "smartass" retorts in my head that I refuse to let out, and I've noticed that some people seem afraid of the idea that I might make them feel stupid. In this month, I'll let myself be okay with letting that smartass out a bit more.

-Err on the side of being aggressively assertive and unapologetic. Also, If anyone around me says something I find to be stupid or uninformed, I'll be more likely to let them know it in a non-butthurt way instead of just letting it slide for the sake of maintaining positivity in the interaction.


The purpose of this isn't to cause some strong personality shift, but to train myself to be more comfortable with being less of a clown, less of an overly open book, and less concerned with positivity for the sake of it. I first emerged out of my socially anxious shell by being "Mr. Funnyman," but now I think it's really time for an antithesis to that thesis, so to speak. I'll still be making myself talk to anyone and everyone, but at the same time I'll certainly be less likely to reveal something stupid like the fact that I looked up a girl's personal info, and I'll certainly be less likely to keep joking around even when the other person isn't, say, even listening properly.

Also, there are other things I intend to work on that aren't directly related to personality.

-Being willing to engage in social bullshit and mild deception, like perhaps starting new carefully crafted social media profiles. I'll also let myself do experimental sessions where I make shit up entirely, like claiming to be on a college campus while daygaming because I'm "meeting with a FWB" to see if girls react more positively to it, or doing a ramble about how "three of my last ex-girlfriends hated the fact that I tried going to the gym more often for some weird reason." I'm only going to do those sorts of things to girls I don't expect to see again, or develop any lasting relationship with.

-Deliberately observing body language, and applying how nonverbals work in my favor. The forum member I met in person recommended What Every Body is Saying by Joe Navarro, which I'm reading right now. I recommend that anyone reading this post check it out.

-See if I can get girls to 'chase' me instead of the other way around. Yesterday, I did an approach where the girl (18 year old sitting down, browsing her phone at the same time) seemed utterly bored with me and bereft of emotion in her voice. I recall that when I started to look away and started thinking of leaving, she then started asking me personal questions. I was also a bit surprised that she gave her phone number really willingly, and noticed that she's displaying quite a bit of interest through text. Lately I've been wondering if I'm too much of an interrogator when I talk, so what I'm going to do is severely tone down the questions, deliberately go quiet and/or look away and observe what the other person does in reaction.

[haywire]

Hey bro, I can myself from 10 years ago in you and I know exactly what your problem is - virginity. Being a virgin affects your game on so many deeper levels that all your verbal game/intellectual game/pretty boy game/bad boy game simply fall flat because you lack that true inner confidence which enables you to finally bang new women, as a virgin. You have a taste of game, realize its potential but unfortunately are not yet prepared to reap it's full benefits. Here's my advice to you:

Stop doing the whole cold approaching/daygame/tweaking-your-game bit for the moment, and focus on losing your virginity ASAP through whatever means possible - easiest would be through an older chick online, IMO. Or perhaps any chick who's into you. Practice sex for a couple of months and that would do wonders to your confidence and inner game, and the true confidence you will get out of that cannot be matched by any number of approaches/money/fame/looks - everyone has to do the hardwork and go through the drill.

I remember the first time I discovered cold approaching after reading a Paul Janka article - in my first 2 approaches I got 2 numbers and thought this was all too easy. But those numbers went no where as I really had no proper follow up plan. In the next few months I got many more numbers(some from girls who I clearly thought were unattainable at that point) and went on a few dates but my lack of experience would somehow prevent me from converting those dates to sex. In one case, I got a solid makeout with a girl at a house party and she wanted to take me home but I chickened out. Gradually I realized that it was the lack of any sexual experience that was hindering my progress and eventually found a chick who was really into me and didn't mind the first few failed tries at having sex.

There are really no shortcuts in game, the chicks you're cold approaching are not virgins and they will sense your lack of experience in no time. What you really don't want is landing up a more experienced girl in bed who dumps you after the first time you have sex.

[MathGuy]

Before I found out about game, I gave OkCupid a try as an 18 year old clueless NEET. Didn't get anywhere.

Right now I don't have any good pics of myself other than shitty low quality selfies taken at home or some generic location. Because of that, and the fact that cold approach pickup just feels so much more badass, I decided to hold off on online game. Should I just make do with shitty selfies? I don't know anyone right now who can take really good pictures of me.

I have wondered how much of an extent virginity is affecting me. My gut tells me that losing it won't change current me much at all. I'm pretty damn sure that I would have gotten laid already if I was in a non commuter university or if I had great pictures for Tinder/OkCupid. I feel that finally getting laid at this point wouldn't be mind blowing but more of something that confirms what I've known of myself for at least the past half year. I feel as if right now I'm really close and just need to sort out a few minor kinks.

18-20 year old me would have benefited quite a bit from a first time lay though, I'll give you that. Thanks for the reply. I'll keep it in mind and will shift to the "lose virginity at all costs" mentality if I don't lose it this month.

[haywire]

I think online dating wouldn't be too effective for an 18 year old, and that too when you're clueless. You should browse through the okcupid/online dating page in the game section to get ideas - tons of golden intel there. And don't do it without proper pics - ask a friend to take some good pics, or worst case hire someone for 40-50 bucks. You could try Tinder/match/pof also, and also experiment with marking your age 23-24. I'm not saying online should be your only resource, but its just makes things easier in this day and age when majority are doing online dating. My sense is that by using online dating you might be able to lose your virginity faster, but keep doing all forms of game if you can optimize your time.

Losing your virginity is much more than a game milestone - its like a foundation that you would build your empire on. Your understanding of women/inner game and confidence will increase drastically once you've been inside a women. But don't worry too much about it, you're still 21 and have lots of time and it's great that you're starting early enough. I have known guys who were virgins at 30!

[MathGuy]

So, in one of the first posts in this thread I wrote about getting into nightgame. It's past time that I do, and I'm very excited about it, but the thing is - I don't really know where and how to start. After Googling "nightclubs nyc" I've noticed that quite a few of them like to exclude people based on clothes/status, which means that I don't think I'd be going to any of them any time soon. Obviously, I'm going to head to the ones accessible to me, but this is completely foreign territory. I guess I'm also going to have to buy some new nightclub-ish clothes first? I feel a bit frustrated at the realization of how ignorant I am when it comes to this. It reminds me of a time where I thought I'd have to buy some C++ program to program in C++, totally clueless of what a compiler and IDE were, or the time when I thought guitar players just played naturally from the heart and didn't have to undergo painstaking hours of practice to learn technique.

I hope this doesn't come across as a spoonfeeding request, but can anyone reading this thread recommend me a specific non-exclusive NYC nightclub to start with? Also, feel free to PM me if you want to wing. None of my IRL friends aside from a couple of people have experience with clubbing, and those two aren't available as of now.

One of my biggest obstacles in game right now comes from the fact that I've relied 100% on the street/campuses/stores/transit as venues. It'll be refreshing to finally game in high-volume environments where approaches are expected. I wonder if it'll be like playing on Easy mode after getting hazed through many grueling hours in Hard mode.

Edit: Right now, I'm reading Caligula's datasheet. I may try The Fat Cat in the West Village. I'll see if I can find any good ones closer to my far flung part of Queens.

[redbeard]

1. Buy new clothes

2. Go explore bars. NYC is a blessing, there are hundreds of bars and it's one of the few American cities left that doesn't have a short clock

3. Record your nights and bust out a datasheet

[MathGuy]

@redbeard: Will do.

Datasheets are just descriptions of venues, the demographics of venues, and certain tips on how to go about running game at those venues. Am I right?

---------
The purpose of this post is to comprehensively and clearly list various game-related problems I’m facing right now. An idea that popped into my head recently is that progress, in any kind of venture, can be incredibly stifled because of the fact that one may not have a crystal clear idea of what their problems exactly are. This can feel like common sense to some of you, but I feel as if I’m onto an epiphany - that I should structure aspects of my personal development journey around first identifying what my problems exactly are, before browsing any reference material and taking action to solve those problems. After all, correct answers to the wrong problems are of little benefit.

In this post, I’ll just list everything that comes to mind off the top of my head right now. Aside from describing them, I’ll also include possible solutions and anything I’ve employed that has made the problem easier in dashed points.

1. The desire to open in a fashion that isn't awkward or creepy or offputting. So far, I’ve successfully made quite a few approaches that felt smooth and elicited great reactions, but too often I end up stopping myself from approaching in certain scenarios (e.g. when a girl is in a large group, when a girl wearing headphones in the subway with her eyes in a sleepy daze, when a girl I’m about to approach suddenly walks into an alley) because I’m pretty sure I’m going to end up coming across as some form of odd/weird/creepy/insertgenericshamingwordhere to her and to other people in the vicinity. I often find myself wanting to calibrate myself into not coming across that way before approaching, and when I inevitably come across those scenarios where I don’t feel prepared (e.g. let’s say that right before I try to open a girl on the street with a line meant for people walking alone, she starts speaking to a guy she just walked up to who could be either her boyfriend or platonic friend), I end up refusing to approach. This is more of a problem that results from a desire to optimize than any strong anxiety.

-Perhaps I really should be okay with negative reactions. This morning there were a bunch of people on the F train in costumes, and I wanted to socially lubricate myself by asking these two people near me (girl sitting down, looking up at her boyfriend) if they were cosplaying for an event (turned out to be Comic Con). This fat black lady standing between us said “You can’t at least say EX-KA-YOOS ME?!?” to which I said “Oh, I’m sorry” to which she said “Do you want to stand here so you can talk to those two?” to which I said “sure, sure, sorry about that” to calm her down. It really didn’t feel like the sort of thing I should actively avoid, and I sort of appreciated the sudden adrenaline rush it gave me. I had pretty smooth and short smalltalk with the couple after that.

-Even if I bumble and fuck up and slur my words in my opener, to the point where initially I end up looking worse than Richard Hendricks from Silicon Valley, I can still salvage the interaction. No one ever died from a rough landing, after all.

-Sets where one isn’t sure of exactly what to do, are the kinds of sets one progresses the most on. Therefore, they should be appreciated and not avoided. I should realize that before I started getting into game, headphone-less girls sitting down and smiling would have made me freeze up. Those kinds of sets are pretty trivial now. Girls in daytime groups, girls with family on the subway, girls with good looking guys...those sets can become trivial as well.

2. Mental inertia. The mechanics of game in low volume environments. In certain locations, there are periods of time in between sets where my inner dialogue begins to act in a counterproductive fashion - like “I might be wasting too much time being here... I guess I should walk elsewhere....oh wait, there’s someone to approach...nevermind, just a guy who resembled an attractive girl from a distance...am I being a bitch for not approaching anyway?...wait, I’m thinking too much...and I just realized that a girl I might want to approach just walked past me...should I keep walking or turn around to follow..uhh, I should be more decisive..I guess I should turn around and run after her...god I feel weird and needy running passed this crowd of people and jayrunning through this red light just to talk to this girl who’s pretty average but is the best looking one I’ve seen in the last 10 minutes...but what do I say?...can she detect the fact that I went after her?...fuck I need to be more decisive..maybe I should just be okay with potentially coming across as a stalker..she just walked into her apartment..well, let me walk off and just find another one...”

-One thing I’ve started doing recently is finding ways to “exert influence” (for lack of a better term) on my surroundings whenever I’m not in a set. For instance, today I came up with the idea that I should repeatedly count to 5 (or 10), and at the end of each count, I should verbally say whatever comes to mind (1,2,3,4,5..cars are vehicles with four wheels, and there are many cars around me right now..1,2,3,4,5..that is a sign that looks like the word physics, which is a branch of science that encompasses mechanics, optics, thermodynamics, and electromagnetism). This helps prevent me from being too in my head.

-Whenever I do see a potential girl, I should make a quick decision (not a debate) on whether I should approach her. If I take more than 10 seconds (the Mystery Method recommends 3, but I think that should only be used in high volume environments), I should decisively deny myself from approaching. When I do commit to an approach, I should make a beeline for her, and approach in whatever comes to mind in the moment, then take things from there.

-Unattractive women or men can be used as social lubricants. For instance, I can say “nice hairstyle” to a random old lady passing by, or I can say “hey...do you go to NYU by any chance...I have a quick question about being a STEM student there.” This will make employing openers and going for hook points with attractive girls easier.

3. Habitual use of logical/generic discourse rather than emotional discourse. After my openers, the interaction often ends up like smalltalk between established friends. It builds comfort, but not enough attraction and excitement.

-This is something that I’ve very recently decided to try to work on in every interaction I have. I’m already making progress and am seeing good returns, so I’ll just leave it at that.

4. I’m still not quite sure when I should eject. Sometimes I might be treating certain cases as rejections when they might just be minor setbacks. For instance, I sometimes just leave after a girl just responds to my opener but doesn’t hook (e.g. answers the question in my indirect opener about her necklace “oh, it was a gift,” then quickly puts her earplugs back on, so I leave to make things feel natural).

-This sort of falls under the same umbrella as not wanting to come across as awkward or creepy or whatever. There are some who would recommend “keep at it until she communicates ‘fuck off’ ” but I don’t think I want to go that far. Maybe I should? My modus operandi is to go ‘alright, have a nice day” or “alright, I won’t pressure you” whenever I get the ‘I have a boyfriend’ or ‘sorry, I’m not comfortable with giving my number out’ remark. I actually suspect I’m on the right track with that. Today, I made an approach to a girl who was reading while waiting for the subway. She hooked, and there was some positivity, but the subway noise got in the way of her hearing me in certain cases, which screwed with my overall vibe. When her train came, I just decided to wish her a nice day instead of going for a number, because I got the impression that she wouldn’t give it (maybe I was wrong). There doesn’t seem to be a clear answer to this, just personal preferences and whatever one feels in the moment.

-I suppose one can just impose certain objective criteria. Maybe I should at least ask for a number at least once no matter what (it’ll feel lame and forced sometimes, but whatever). Maybe I should communicate “but I don’t want to be your boyfriend, I want to be your lover” at least once whenever I hear the IHAB remark? Maybe I should go “1 minute, 1 minute” at least once when I hear “I’m in a rush” or “I’m about to meet with someone” or “sorry I’m in the middle of a workout” (had this one today with a jogger).

5. Girls being very slow to respond or utterly silent in texting.

-When I’m met with silence. I should go for a restart text once or twice (err on the side of going once) a week. If a restart text (or 3, or some arbitrary number) is met with no reply, I’ll take it as license to fool around.

-I should realize that attractive girls are bombarded with texts from numerous other people, in addition to notifications from all the apps on her phone. A lot of them probably go “I can’t think of a reply right now so I’ll respond later” and then forget to reply altogether after getting spammed with a whole lot of other distractions (from her phone, from life in general). Many of them probably don’t know how (or don’t bother) to properly streamline GUIs to minimize distractions. Sometimes it really has nothing to do with what I wrote. Even close friends and family have exhibited this problem, so naturally it would be even worse with girls I had only one short interaction with weeks ago.

-I guess my initial texts should be ones that either offer value and don’t require a reply unless she feels like (e.g. funny pictures, funny anecdotes), or questions that are extremely easy to reply to (e.g. “is your name spelled with a K or a Ch”).

-When someone decides to not respond in the moment, it can become a habitual thing, even though their disposition towards me isn’t very different. It’s similar to increasingly procrastinating on an assignment the more time you spend doing anything else. Therefore, whenever I’m met with silence, I might have to either get a bit spammy in an opportune time (Sunday night when people aren’t so busy) or I might have to wait a couple weeks or even more to send another text.

[MathGuy]

I’ve committed to going out every single day to practice game in a high-volume environment.

While I’ve made larger jumps in progress in the past four months than in the preceding two years, I feel that it still isn’t fast enough to match my ambitions. I’ve been a bit held back by too many days of lounging around at home after work, or dallying around in the dullness of Fresh Meadows for most of my weekends (from now on, I’m going to name places by their specific names…I stopped caring about potentially getting exposed, partly because of the fact that I’m currently too insignificant for anyone to actually care enough to do anything about it - even the most ardent feminists from XOJane wouldn't bother bitching about what I'm doing). To combat this stagnation, I see no other choice other than regular hardcore practice in the vast sprawling training ground that is New York City. On workdays, I’ll be going out of my way after work ends to run game in what is probably the best possible venue for me – the subways underneath Manhattan and Brooklyn. On weekends, I’ll be daygaming and meeting up with wings and going on planned dates.

I purchased a 30-Day Unlimited Metrocard yesterday for $116.50, and even though I was still recovering from a cold, I suppressed my excuses to remain indoors and dressed to head out. Because of Jewish holidays, I was free from work yesterday, so I saw no reason to waste it fucking around on the Internet at home. Here is a summary of what happened yesterday and today. I’ll post analyses at a later time.

10/12/2016


I took the bus to Flushing Main St., passing the time by talking to this random old lady, opening by saying “excuse me..have you lives in the city for a long time? I’m writing this paper on changes in NYC between now and then…” I’ve found that it’s very helpful to force myself to talk to anyone and everyone, which is somewhat born out of the fact that I live in a neighborhood that sucks ass. My first ever cold approach was in the Fresh Meadows Public Library at the age of 19, with a fobby Korean lady who was wearing a hoodie with the hood over her head, studying some medical book. She could have been 38 for all I know. I recall that worked myself up into approaching for a good twenty minutes, didn’t close and probably even ended up annoying her a bit, but after I left I remember how gloriously relieving it was that the world didn’t end. But I digress.

When I got to the train, I continued making random small talk with anyone I could, and one of the highlights was when I approached this girl who gave off an attractively arrogant vibe, whose particular manner of interacting reminded me of an emotionally volatile girl I knew from my days as a student, which made me feel a bit tense and wary to the point where I just ejected (to be described in detail later on). I decided to transfer to the 5 train, where I made smalltalk with this British woman about accents, and how many people recently have been asking me if I have a British accent (I ought to write a full post about this). I didn’t bother flirting with her, although in retrospect I should’ve. Now, I was basically winging it as far as the route I was taking (this is something I need to work on, because it is holding me back slightly), so I somewhat randomly decided to get off at the Brooklyn Bridge / City Hall stop (never been there before). Because of the fact that I was winging it in an iconic area I’ve never been to, I decided to “do some exploration” before making any approaches, and ended up walking across the Brooklyn Bridge for the first time ever. There was a huge amount of European tourists there (as well as tourists from other parts of the USA), so I sort of used that as an excuse to not approach anyone, (although really…I should make myself the highlight of some European girl’s trip by seducing her in front of her family, or something along those lines. I just need to stop letting shit like that get in the way of my progress). I then walked to a nearby subway stop, and took the train to Union Square.

While I was at Union Square, I decided to warm up a bit by doing indirect openers on random passersby. Shortly after opening some random woman about her scarf, and letting her walk away when all she did was say “thanks,” this black guy called out to me from behind and said “hey…are you pimping?” Now, I was wary of him being some potential white knight, but I was in a unashamed mood, so I said “yeah..what about it?” He then said “well, it doesn’t look like it’s going to well,” and before I could finish my rebuttal about how I was just warming up, he said “wanna join me?” so I said “sure.” Less than ten seconds later, he opened these two girls sitting down by asking them if they were German, and thus began my first couple hours of game done with an experienced wingman. I’ll describe the guy in a later post, but he was an experienced black guy a few years older than me (if I had to guess) whose personality comes across in a way where almost every single thing he says feels like a neg (case in point, I once asked him “has anyone ever told you that everything you say comes across as a neg” and he replied “well first of all, the people I hang out with don’t use the word ‘neg,’ and second of all…hell yeah, I get that all the time, but it’s just my humor”). We entered Barnes and Noble, but before we did he pointed a group of three women to approach immediately, and I did it unthinkingly to demonstrate my willingness to learn. I ended up saying some random bullshit that came to mind (“excuse me…but you three are the prettiest girls in this park who I have seen…in the past few seconds…..”). It got nowhere fast, and I just ejected seconds later when they were turning away, but I went back to the guy who congratulated me on my enthusiasm. In Barnes and Noble, we did a few approaches, and I got to see him in action. We spent a couple hours together in total. I’ll describe the whole thing in detail later.

Anyway, after that, I meandered around the area while waiting to meet up with a friend from high school. I was pretty worn out by that point, so I wasn’t able to make any decent approaches. I hung out with said high school friend, ate at this diner, then traveled to Woodside because I wanted to scout out how good of an area it was (pretty meh; I really should stick to Manhattan/Brooklyn). After that, I went back home and arrived at around 10:30PM. I got into a loud shouting argument with my mother about things I won’t bother talking about right now, and ended up severely straining my voice to the point where it’s currently still extremely raspy and weak.

(I’m pretty damn grateful I fought my urge to remain indoors on this day, because I really gained a hell of a lot from my experience, and it was just the first day of my “go out every single day” commitment. Now, I hope my voice returns to normal soon.)


10/13/2016


With holidays over, I started going back to work again today, and tried out my “hit the subways after work routine” for the first time. While taking the bus (~30 minute ride), I made smalltalk with this random guy who goes to the community college I work at (won’t name it, but anyone curious enough can easily find out – it’s in Oakland Gardens). When I got on the train, I went from car to car, chatting up anyone and everyone. I ended up talking at length with this cute Puerto Rican girl into painting, who sadly is still a high school senior, which made me hold off on any considerations to close. I was sort of winging my route still, but when I arrived at Grand Central an hour after leaving work, I realized that even though I might end work late at 6pm in the ass end of Queens…I’m still goddam lucky for having such a veritable goldmine of great looking women just an hour away. I’m a moron for not starting this sooner.

Anyway, I took the downtown 6, giving random compliments here and there but not managing to really hook anyone, which was fine because my focus was mainly on determining the viability of my idea to go out and hit the subways after work. I ended up transferring to the L, walking through Bushwick at night for no good reason (I got a bit too carried away with “exploring”; shitty looking neighborhood and I was wary of getting mugged, but I saw more cuties there walking around for 30 minutes in the evening darkness, than I do in a whole year in Fresh Meadows). I eventually decided to just head back home, and arrived home at around 9:45PM. On the way home, I still came across more great looking girls than I do in a whole semester of fucking around in the community college I work at.

This day was more of an assessment of the viability of a gold mine (i.e. the subway route into downtown Manhattan and the Williamsburg area, in the evening on Monday-Thursday after work), than any actual mining of gold. I’m pretty excited of what the following days and weeks have in store.

[MathGuy]

Alright, I hate to come across as someone who changes trajectories at a whim, but I'm going to implement a few changes.


-It's getting cold in New York, and aside from a few standout exceptions, women are killing their sex appeal by putting on the layers. Back in the summer, one of my biggest motivations for going out was to appreciate the real-life eye candy. That reason is gone now. At the same time, I have gone on enough multi-hour daygame walks to the point where I feel the need to take a step back, pat myself on the back for trying so hard, and put effort into other avenues.

-My personal style and physique need some working on. Recently I've been skipping out on some gym sessions because of my insistence on taking multi-hour daygame walks instead. I'm starting to lose out on the progress I made back in the summer, when I hit the gym frequently. I don't want to turn into some skinnyfat neckbeard with shitty facial hair and disheveled clothes. Today, I took a look at some pictures a fellow forum member took of me, and those aforementioned descriptions seem right on the money (so I guess I already kinda am a skinnyfat neckbeard with shitty facial hair and disheveled clothes). It's funny because it makes me even prouder of what I've managed to achieve in cold approach pickup recently, which tells me I need to tone that aspect of my life down a bit.

-The last time I attempted online game (OkCupid, I was a clueless eighteen year old NEET (liked to view /r9k/ a lot) who would send overwrought hyperintellectualized messages that sometimes took over an hour to write. I would then observe that the girls would look at my profile (probably out of curiosity, to see what kind of weirdo put that much effort into them), but never send a message back. Now I want to apply what I've learned, and see just how different the results will be. Also, I really don't have *any* good picture of myself in reserve. I'm going to have to go out of my way to obtain them, and making a really great online profile will be a good motivator.

-I've done enough cold solo daygame approaches to kill a great portion of my inner beta. I'm definitely no longer the hardcase I once was (raised by a single mother, inculcated by feminist public school teachers and Catholic family members at the same time, neglected all other girls aside from a oneitis for years at a time). I think it's time to focus not on improving my social skills and getting over anxiety or other inner game issues (I feel I've pretty much achieved that), but to actually get laid.

So here's the thing...I'm going to take haywire's advice, make an online profile, improve my looks, collect as many good pictures of myself as I can, and lose my virginity. I also still have some numbers from cold approaches that haven't gone dead - maybe one of them will be the one.

I'm not going to log in and post in this thread again until that happens. The next post, whenever it comes, will be a virginity loss report. Stay tuned.

quick edit: Ok, here's something to quickly clarify before I officially sign out. I'm still going to do cold approaches, and I'm going to sort of expand it to a "chat up anyone and everyone...and closing the bangable girls who hook for long enough" kind of thing. After all, one of the things that drew me to game was the idea that I could work my way up to being charming, witty, passionate, memorable, etc. with everyone (not just women). The thing is, I'm going to postpone my plan to do late night approach adventures in the subways (I need time for sleep), and I'm going to stop my byzantine meanderings around low volume areas. I'm going to stop setting aside sessions specifically for game (for now), and will just passively apply the concepts in every waking hour of my life. I'll be doing approaches (moreso, I'll be applying Giovonny's mindset that I'm not picking anyone up - I'm just talking) in the natural routes I take in my day-to-day existence, as I focus on other things (taking good pictures, improving my style, exercising, etc.)

[haywire]

(10-15-2016 07:36 PM)MathGuy Wrote:  

So here's the thing...I'm going to take haywire's advice, make an online profile, improve my looks, collect as many good pictures of myself as I can, and lose my virginity. I also still have some numbers from cold approaches that haven't gone dead - maybe one of them will be the one.

I'm not going to log in and post in this thread again until that happens. The next post, whenever it comes, will be a virginity loss report. Stay tuned.

Good luck! And really do hope you come back with virginity loss report very soon.

I can see myself very clearly in you hence the advice above. My situation was somewhat better and perhaps more frustrating than yours: as a virgin I was getting a lot of numbers, even makeouts and stuff but my inner game was lacking this basic building block so nothing was coming out of it.

You don't have to restrict yourself to just online game, but just I think it might be easier for you, though I might be wrong since I don't know about your living situation/city/background. But what I do know is that the kind of cold approaching you're doing, it takes some level of game to get results out of it, and for a virgin it might be a waste of time when it comes to getting actual results.

[Mrredsquare]

Insightful Journal man you're energy and enthusiasm are on point. I'll be reading with interest good luck.

[MathGuy]

Well, I’m going to have to start this post by disappointing and/or amusing some of you by stating that I haven’t gotten laid yet. There have been a couple of times where I felt I was almost guaranteed to lose my v-card.

One of those times was yesterday, where I met up with a nineteen year old Hispanic girl who I encountered through my tutoring position, who is a bright giggly bubble of IOIs around me (likes to wait two hours just to see me; playfully punches me on the shoulder when I tease her; is generally very ’reactive’ to everything I do). Before I met up with her, I knew she apparently likes going to church twice a week, but suspected that she was the faux-innocent type because of how our interactions played out before the meeting. In the meetup I learned that she’s a virgin who wants a guy who ‘loves God’ and wants to have kids and wait for marriage. I’m omitting quite a few other details for the sake of brevity, but let’s just say that I’m pretty certain that she’s not putting up a front, and that I don’t plan on pursuing her because I became an atheist almost a decade ago and realized that marriage would be a terrible idea almost a year ago.

Another time was with someone I met through OKCupid, a white intellectual feminist/SJW girl. We’ve been quite sexual in our messages to each other. Our first meetup was a week ago at her dorm, though it turned out to be a pretty inopportune time because she needed to finish an assignment and her roommates were right there (I picked the time we’d meet; I mistakenly assumed we’d be by ourselves and didn’t think things through...taught me a valuable lesson in the importance of logistics and avoiding situations where sex is unlikely if I want to get laid). All we ended up doing was have an entertaining talk about various topics, some sexual and some not. I haven’t met with her a second time yet, but she’s still on the table, so to speak. I’ll leave it at that.

I think it’s only a matter of time. The trouble is -- I believe the crucial idea is to adjust certain factors so that time works in my favor. I’ve fallen into a rather slothful slump in the past month and a half. When I first created my account this past summer, I had the luxury of having no time consuming work schedule to adhere to. It didn’t become evident quickly enough, but game+work entirely consumed my life to the severe detriment of every other important area. One key insight I’ve gained is that a solid understanding of the principles of good lifestyle management is crucial, and a very important skill is learning how to implement them to the particularities of one’s personal life. There are multiple aspects that contribute to success in game that don’t directly involve game. For all intents and purposes, I’m still a poor college aged kid who lives with his mom in a dull neighborhood. The only forum member I’ve met up with in real life so far, polar, once told me that the zero-to-hero types like Neil Strauss had established careers and the freedom/money/stability to work hard on their game. I don’t think I’ll be a NY Times author who interviews multiple rock stars anytime soon, but I’m definitely going to put more emphasis on building up the conditions necessary for working on game without compromising other important areas of life.

Here’s a chronological account of how events have transpired since my last post.

(The three weeks after October)

I actually didn’t bother creating any online dating accounts until mid-November, because I had absolutely zero good pictures to work with (was a NEET for a year before starting community college; in community college I didn’t go out much and the pictures I do have are poorly angled shots of a chubby neckbeard), which was incredibly frustrating. I was faced with a dilemma -- I had sworn off of my sarging sessions which gave me surplus time, but I wasn’t able to actually spend that time working on online game like I wanted to. What I did was look around for professional photographers online, though given my terribad internet habits, I also ended up spending hours reading about the election.

This is a topic that I haven’t discussed much, but I was a somewhat radical left-winger in my adolescence. Politics was actually a much bigger passion for me than anything STEM related. I had a somewhat SJW outlook before SJWs were even a thing - I could see teenage me in my fellow millenial Sanderites/BLM supporters/nu-male feminists. I recall the many hours wasted getting pissed at right-wingers online and the fact that I proudly supported Occupy Wall Street. When that movement flopped I became a bit politically cynical, and during my two years in community college I was so focused on productivity/schoolwork that I lived under a proverbial rock when it came to politics. That was 2014 to early 2016, so while I was somewhat aware of the rapid shifts to identity politics and how people in the PUA world were getting demonized (Julien, Roosh, etc), I didn’t have the will to care. I suppose it’s good that I wasn’t deeply involved in game while the anti-PUA hysteria was at its peak.

Anyway, in the past few months, I’ve been catching up politically. As a heterosexual guy whose goal (before my mid twenties) is to become an elite player, with all of the behaviors and mentalities that lifestyle requires, I’m definitely not fond of fourth-wave feminism firmly rooting itself in the mainstream left. In addition, I currently regard my teenage clamoring for socialist politics to have been a waste of time, and that it’s best to spend that energy on things like personal development rather than hoping to elect Bernie Sanders (one of my best friends from high school talked about how he was looking forward to supporting the Sanders campaign with me..this was back in 2013).

So part of the reason I wrote all that is to explain why I ended up glued to the Internet. Because of my respect for Cernovich and Roosh (as well as the other members of this forum), my outlook on Trump changed from “crazy billionaire Internet troll who accidentally trolled his way to the Republican nomination” to “champion against an establishment which has firmly allied itself with hysterical factions that would fuck up life for aspiring players.” What really put me over the edge was the fact that they tried to crucify Trump during Pussygate, and the fact that he saved his campaign by demonstrating incredible frame and skill during the second debate (it reminded me of pickup advice when it comes to dates -- to start low-energy and boring but progress to high-energy and excitement, because girls notice the change in emotions more than the emotions themselves). While I wouldn’t describe myself right now as a conservative (I still have socially liberal views...I just don’t think it’s healthy to be ashamed of being straight/white/male/cis/etc), I definitely spent quite a lot of mental time/energy/focus on the election. My outlook on Hillary changed from “flawed and corrupt establishment candidate whose ambition I admire, and who I’m okay with winning because day-to-day life likely won’t change much” to “unfortunate ally/mascot of feminists who have pushed bullshit like manspreading/mansplaining/rape-epidemics-on-campus to the mainstream.” So while I was hesitant about it, I eventually decided to jump into the basket of deplorables.

If I never got into game, I could have very well ended up being one of those “nu-male" individuals whose facebook posts show up in the many Hillary supporter saltmine threads that dot the web. That makes me think....

(The weeks following November 8)

I didn't sleep on election night because I planned on waiting until Trump was announced the victor, which didn't happen until 3am. I also browsed a few left-wing websites I used to browse, alongside the RVF and 4chan. The general excitement and relief made me pull an all-nighter, and when I went to work the next day, I sometimes found myself falling into these weird dreamlike states where my surroundings morphed into a totally different setting and I was talking to a totally different person about a totally different topic, only to “snap out of it” and realize that I was talking about the nuances of the shifts in party politics throughout the decades to a guy who just wanted to be tutored in logarithms.

I developed a bad habit of having my eyes glued to the Internet because of politics. It got in the way of game, though a couple days after the election I met up with a professional photographer in Williamsburg who used to be a popular member of this forum. Aside from getting nice pictures taken, and having fun with a few cute girls, we bonded over how our political views shifted over the years.

Aside from compromising my time spent on game, staying up all-night after the election and staying up late with that guy a couple days later also compromised my health. I acquired this weird cough that wouldn’t go away, which flared up into a severe illness that knocked me out of commission for three weeks. I even had to take a whole week off from work to cope with it. Also, because I was staying home, and not outside running game or working out in the gym, I fell back into certain habits that were identical to how I used to live as a NEET (playing Fallout: New Vegas and browsing 4chan for hours on end). Once the my illness was starting to subside, I had the fortune of attending an RSD Free Tour (this was November 17 -- I got to see one of my personal heroes - Owen Cook (possibly #1 on my list of figures more inspirational to me), along with Luke/Todd/Brandon Carter...fucking magical)) where I met quite a few interesting people and a few who I’m looking forward to winging with later on. I also decided to shell out $300 for their Hotseat event (on November 20), which proved to be the best $300 I’ve ever spent on anything. I’ll describe those events in greater detail later on.

Suffice it to say, the entire month of November was entirely bereft of game-related progress for me aside from those RSD events and the fact that I’ve gotten a bit more success in online game (OKCupid/Tinder) than I did before.

Now, I’m still trying to claw my way out of the bad habits I acquired in that month. My problem with insomnia has worsened significantly, and I find that I’m falling asleep at around 4am while waking up in a sleep-deprived daze at 8am, which is the time I need to be out commuting to work. Back when the Fall semester started, I would wake up as early 5:30AM to hit the gym and get some productive things settled before I commuted to work. I haven’t gone to the gym in almost three weeks (I go in the morning, but I haven’t been waking up early enough during the weekdays, and during the weekends I wake up late because I try to catch up on sleep and lazily fall into Internet browsing/video game playing). I also haven’t done a cold approach in over four weeks, so my in-person-game is probably a bit rusty. Oh, and over the past couple weeks my personal appearance has degenerated to that of a crusty hobo.

So yeah, that’s why lifestyle management is at the top of my priority list right now. Thankfully, my last day of work is less than two weeks away, as the students I have to tutor are about to enter final exam time. In between now and then, I’ll be hitting the gym again, doing cold approaches again, and grooming myself again. I’m also going to implement meditation and rigid scheduling. Also, another primary goal that I’ll start working on soon is teaching myself the necessary skills required to work as a freelancer (this will be a tough one). My future posts will not only consist of insights pertaining to game, but the areas of life that will aid success in game. Hopefully that won’t count as going off topic, but I think it’ll be helpful for me and anyone reading this thread to apply the same passion/fervor I did with game to learning/analyzing those other aspects of life.

While I haven't gotten laid yet, I think posting again while writing about my progress in the realm of lifestyle management is a worthwhile enough endeavor to violate my prior commitment to not post until my penis has entered a vagina.

[Truth Tiger]

Having been a late-bloomer, virgin Til 19, fairly socially awkward Til my early 20s, and a science / math geek (B.S. and minor, respectivelt), I *strongly* recommend you get into social dancing ASAP. Ballroom first (waltz, foxtrot, cha cha, American tango, etc) with some salsa thrown in. You will meet women who want to meet men in a friendly environment. Adjust your approach as needed but you'll find women more likely to approach you if you simply keep in mind "I'm here to have a great time learning to dance, be more comfortable with natural kino/physical contact, and lose my virginity to a woman I like who is more interested in me than I am in her."

That's how I would approach it. I've met at least a half dozen women I've dated / had sex with through community college and university dance classes. You're a perfect age for it. Start yesterday and report back! PM if you want more tips but this will get you going well. Uncle Elmer on various blogs and has his own site is a big advocate of social dance. As an intellectual guy the more natural physical touch you get your body used to, the more comfortable you'll be with women everywhere else. Dance trains your body to move naturally during sex and women do rightly judge the creativity of a potential lover by how they move.

Having restarted a yoga program, I also highly recommend that. It's good exercise too, especially when you're lifting and eating well. Good luck, and may the primes be with you!

[subterfuge]

'' I've met at least a half dozen women I've dated / had sex with through community college and university dance classes. ''

Are you on the very handsome side?
I joined a social care community college class and there were loads and loads of hot girls there, but in the end it was just super frustrating as none of them were interested in me in a sexual way. Only wanted to be friends.
Could try dance class, but I fear the same thing will happen.

[Truth Tiger]

So let's be careful about ascribing success to one factor. Yes, generally I'm described as handsome though also ethnic which may or may not work in my favor. I certainly didn't get every girl I wanted, nor every hot girl, but I felt comfortable in that environment. As more of an introvert, it's too easy to focus on results instead of on process. I feel social dance (as many places as you need to go) is an indispensable tool for self-improvement, gaming, and just having fun. The joy is in the process and you get better as you learn the steps and as you learn to relax.

The emotional tenor of your words gives me an impression you are coming across as desperate or too intense and that's putting women off.

"Super frustrating.."
"Only wanted ..."
"Could try ..."
"But fear..."

I would read up on Gio (Giovonny) and his style. I've met and gamed a little with him. He is disarming, fun, playful, non attached, and women instantly feel he is non threatening, not desperate.

I suggest stepping back from any kind of goal that produces a lot of anxiety / fear. Make it easy! Make it fun! For yourself and the women there! Dancing is itself a beautiful expression of YOU being in a body! Having a body to celebrate being ALIVE! How many people can't even dance on their feet, for whatever reason? When you dance you're giving voice to all those people who can't express through their bodies. It is the primary human art form, no tools required but what you're born with.

I really love swing music. I remember when Swing Kids came out and it was just sooo cool seeing that Lindy hop action! I didn't learn Lindy until music later (and not that fully) but even a simple East Coast swing let's you cut a rug with all kinds of awesome classic rock and roll. It's HAPPY music! Not overtly sexual - probably to the kids of that day yes - but it's a kick in the pants. Sometime when I start with salsa I can fall back into a swing back-step instead of a forward-step. My body just loves that feel of falling back and building tension with my delightful partner, then pulling forward, and constantly turning / rotating, throwing moves in and often trying something off the wall that may not work but laughing and being goofy and not giving a fuck! I fucking LOVE dancing! Especially with another person - and I dance with every woman of every age and ability. My goal is to get them to smile and laugh and relax and their gift to me is that feminine beauty, that beautiful spark of their pure feminine energy shining out. Yeah, to me it is poetry - and some times you'll find a partner that just feels right and in your arms she becomes utterly gorgeous. Even if someone else rates her whatever, fuck that shit, you've got chemistry. And you were suprised by it - because you were totally in the process, being natural, and when other women see you being that relaxed they want to know what it's like to dance with you. Dance is a place to have women approach you, that you can develop confidence even as a beginner, that you're the guy having the most fun in the room and any woman is lucky to get some of your sunshine! No ego, just truth.

So start with and stay with "just have fun." Listen to comedy and laugh before dance class, talk to yourself in goofy accents, show up already happy and get happier. Women don't approach fearful guys, they want confident, fun men. Don't worry about making good impressions and shit - let that all go. Change spots if you need or take the same class next semester and offer to be an aid, or dance with the (female) teacher.

You can call it training for life. Because you're dancing with everyone you meet. A beautiful open playful heart shines far brighter than having a pretty face.

[MathGuy]

[[I *strongly* recommend you get into social dancing ASAP. Ballroom first (waltz, foxtrot, cha cha, American tango, etc) with some salsa thrown in. You will meet women who want to meet men in a friendly environment.]]

Thanks for the recommendation, although that's something I don't think I'll pursue until summer of next year. My next post today will be on some other insights and game-related progress I've made since October 15. I simply took a break to eat lunch before writing that up.



[[Having restarted a yoga program, I also highly recommend that. It's good exercise too, especially when you're lifting and eating well. Good luck, and may the primes be with you! ]]

Ha, I like that last phrase. Anyway, yoga is also something that won't be on the table until the summer of next year.

[MathGuy]

I neglected to post this earlier, so before I go to bed I'm going to shoot off some insights I've gleamed over the past couple months.

-Body language and good posture is an aspect of game that you can work on 24/7, so during times when you may be too busy to go out and approach, it's helpful to put focus on them. The same goes for vocal tonality and projection. I've practiced my voice repeatedly while by myself at home, and I sound a lot more "alpha" (for lack of a better term) these days when compared to a year ago.

-When it comes to dynamics of Tinder, an absolutely important thing to keep in mind is the fact that girls decide to right swipe within a fraction of a second. I once observed a female friend use Tinder, and noticed that she left swiped multiple men who were leagues more attractive than the guy she was crushing on in real life. In a single second, she would left-swipe almost three guys without even taking any closer look. Your profile picture must be something that looks palpably attractive and unique at an instantaneous glance. This does tie into the fact that a small percentage of men get a disproportionately large percentage of women, but at the same time (unless you're disfigured or obese) it doesn't take a great deal of effort to be part of that small percentage of men if you just get a good photographer to take a optimized shoot of you. Also, I speculate that there isn't much middle ground on Tinder between guys who don't get any matches after 100 swipes, and guys who get more matches than they're prepared to handle. If you're in the first category, using Tinder is a waste of time, so it is absolutely important to either stop using it or obtain pictures that land you in the second category (well, you should still be meeting girls in real life regardless). Again, if you're not as much matches as you feel you should, your profile picture isn't something that one -- stands out, and two -- displays attractiveness. You need both (because you can stand out by having a facial deformity, or you can be good looking but be lumped in with the legions of other guys in the left-swipe zone with bathroom selfies).

-When you're out and about, looking to approach, it is absolutely crucial to NOT be in a *perception making* mindset but to be in a *decision making* mindset(I'm using terms that I made up right now on the spot). The first one involves looking around and letting your inner mental dialogue run wild, which leads to you either analysis paralysis or rationalizations for not approaching. The second one involves forcing yourself to make snap decisions on the fly, which leads you to making approaches without any form of resistance. Indecisiveness has been a major problem of mine, and I've found that forcing myself to make instantaneous judgments and accepting whatever outcome that results, is something that can help tremendously. (I think this is a subject that warrants a post in greater detail later on).

My next post will be about insights I've gained when it comes to lifestyle management.

[MathGuy]

Alright, so my 22nd birthday is a few days from now, and I’m going to have to take some time to rigorously evaluate the current conditions of my life, so that I can make optimized decisions on which directions to take. What I do in the upcoming months will determine the trajectories I’ll be on for the rest of my twenties. Like many other people my age, I feel an uncomfortable amount of pressure to make the right choices, because there is this nagging notion at the back of my mind that the quality of the rest of my life hinges on decisions I’ll make in this current stage.

My life has benefited tremendously from taking alternative approaches from those suggested by mainstream society. Instead of putting up with the absolutely godawful high school I was in, I chose to drop out, get a GED, and spend two years at community college, where I acquired the stellar grades and extracurricular achievements necessary to make myself competitive for transfer to a high ranking university (friends with less impressive resumes have gotten into Columbia and MIT). Instead of persisting in the bluepill paradigm to find a oneitis soulmate to be with for the rest of my life, I chose to open my eyes to the possibilities of game, and I’ll be eternally grateful for the new levels of awareness PUA/TRP has given me. I’m actually afraid of dying in a freak accident or a terror attack or succumbing to a terminal illness more than ever, because my life has been boredom or hell up to this point, and things right now are only looking up. I just need to ensure things will continue to improve.

(EDUCATION/MONEYMAKING/LIVING CONDITIONS)

Around this point in time last year, I decided I’d take a ‘gap year’ from Fall 2016 to Spring 2017, because I wanted to explore avenues of life outside of the bubble of academia. I’m done with half of that gap year, and I got sidetracked, to say the least. My endeavors to work on pickup, coupled with a hectic work schedule in a low paying job, utterly consumed my life to the point where I wasn’t able to accomplish nearly as much as I planned. At the same time, I’ve found that I don’t want to return to the tedium of college life just yet. My initial plans were to transfer to a prestigious university in Fall 2017, but recently I’ve been increasingly bothered by the notions that I’d be tied up in yet another overly busy schedule full of stifling obligations, and that going down that route would necessitate temporary indentured servitude due to the fact that I’d have to acquire a cookie-cutter high paying 9-5 job to pay off debt (or I’d have go to graduate school, and be tied down with more years of the kind of lifestyle that would screw with my quality of game).

So, I’ve decided that I should dedicate the next few months (or more) to acquiring the skills necessary to live an independent lifestyle where I won’t have to rely on a run-of-the-mill job that puts me at the mercy of an employer, where I won’t be pressured to pay off student debt, and where I will have the freedom to travel all over the country (and the world). I’m going to have to obsessively dedicate myself to this endeavor, or I risk pissing away my early twenties in a fashion similar to how I pissed away my adolescence.

The foremost skill that I’ll be training is computer programming, which I’ll fanatically study for several hours every fucking day, because I can’t afford to be lackadaisical or chill or anything less than zealous about it. After all, I’ll be competing with people who have had experience in it since before their balls dropped, and with people who have went to high ranking universities for it. I’ve dabbled with learning programming since I was fifteen, but let’s just say bad focus habits and life in general always got in the way. At this point, there are probably tens of thousands of ten year olds out there who have a more extensive knowledge of this subject than I do, which makes me want to develop an autistically disturbing obsession with learning everything I can all the more.

(HEALTH AND FITNESS)

I’ll keep this short and to the point. My diet sucks. It consists entirely of processed crap from the freezer, or high calory junk from nearby takeout locations. It makes my body lethargic and my mind foggy. Fuck. I need to become a diet nazi. I hope I don’t get cancer before I fuck a thousand women and write a couple of literary classics. Fuck. I need to learn basic cooking skills.

When it comes to exercise, I’ve developed a routine. All I need to do is stick to it.

(GAME AND PUA)

At this point, all I feel I need to do in the near future is the following.

1. Determine the times of the week when I’ll be working on game, and the nearby high volume locations to go to, so that improvement is merely a matter of following a schedule/routine.

2. Determine the times of the week where I send out messages on OkCupid (and the like).

3. Develop a list of places to have dates (or hangouts/meetups/whatever you wanna call them...). Develop an awareness of the logistics required to get laid (likely, I won’t be taking them back to my apartment in the ass end of Queens, so I’ll either have a separate list of good blindspots or get good at persuading them to take me to their place...I’ll probably lose my virginity in a public bathroom or some random girl’s bedroom in an overpriced apartment).

4. Start going out with wingmen...I've only done it once so far.

I don’t want to complicate things. I have enough knowledge. I just need to actually start going out again (god, I haven’t gone out in way too fucking long), and treat improvement in this area of life in the same fashion I treat improvement when it comes to physical fitness -- go to a place to train, train by doing the actions I know I should take, see what I can do to improve, rinse and repeat with sufficient regularity.

[MathGuy]

Here's a quick tactic that I intend on using more frequently.

As someone who grew up hooked on screens (television, then computer, then smartphone), it can feel incredibly refreshing for my mind to stand up and pace around and let my thoughts run freely. I think it's important to take my mind off of what I could call "consumer" mode and let it go into "producer" mode.

In this day and age, we're bombarded with more information than we can reasonably process. I think it's best to implement frequent breaks from the web to let your mind digest the information you've taken. Otherwise, you're going to end up reading a lot of stuff your mind just glosses over and forgets.

How much information do you remember reading from Internet yesterday do you remember? Nevermind last week or last month.

[MathGuy]

lost my virginity recently. It certainly feels nice, and while I know this might come across as too self-deprecating, it doesn't feel *that* significant because it confirms something I've already believed about myself for about three years now. Long gone are the days where I worried that there was something imperceptibly wrong about me that would forever prevent me from having any significant relationship with the opposite sex. I've put in enough work into basic social skills, then onto 'inner game,' then into the nuances of outer game and proper texting and logistics, that I know for sure that I'm someone who can get laid in the right circumstances, no big deal.

Summary: Met her while daygaming on a college campus. Very spontaneously. If I recall correctly the only reason I came across her was because I saw a girl I would have liked to approach in the distance, ran after her (implementing more tenacity in my game these days), then when I couldn't tell where she went, walked around in the area until I came across another girl (one I punched my vCard with), who wasn't very attractive to me but fit the would-bang-if-horny test. She was actually sleeping on a bench in this spherical enclosure thing, and I just sat across her then decided it was worth the attempt to open, so I said something that woke her up. Can't even remember what I said, but my experience in daygame and socialization in general up to that point allowed me to engage with confidence, relaxation, a bit of a mysterious vibe that alluded to things that made her invest, amusement, etc. To her I guess I was just this interesting random guy who woke her up while she was stressing out from a summer class and had an engaging conversation with. She started smoking multiple cigarettes even though it was against the rules to do so on campus, talked about things that made me profile her as an eccentric bitter outcast type, and seemed simultaneously irritable but appreciative. After a high point in the conversation, I said something along the lines of "you know, you seem cool and interesting, let's exchange numbers so we can hang out sometime" in a calm certain fashion (having already danced this dance many times before). We continued chatting afterwards for a little bit, then I walked her to her next class, and before she entered the building I offered a hug, which she rejected with a detached 'no' but at this point I can easily roll with the punches and quickly retorted with an "ok have a nice day!"

Sent the usual generic 'nice to meet you' text and because I wasn't that interested in her, I forgot about her for the most part in the following days (even neglected to save her name with the number, which I don't usually do), until I got a text out of nowhere this Sunday, where she was asking me how I was doing. By that point, I had accumulated enough knowledge and skill with texting to go for a 'provoke her imagination and make her eagerly wait for the next text" approach. Paid attention to how long I took to send a text, how long my texts were, the word choice I used, the emotional impact that my text was probably going to have. Got her to agree to meet me the following Saturday. The preceding Friday night, we were discussing logistics, and I got occupied with something else while I was at home. At around 1am I realized I wanted to specify the place, so I sent her a text telling me where to meet. Then as I was about to go to sleep, I got a text from her, asking me if I meant that I wanted her to come to me at that time, and before I could clarify that I meant it was for tomorrow, she called me. She told me she was smoking pot in a nearby neighborhood with a friend, and as we were talking about what it's like, she started speaking in a shouting tone, calling me weird and asking if I was a robot, saying that nobody schedules like that (because apparently calling is better blah blah blah). Massive shit test. It made me briefly question if I should even go out with her, but I decided to just treat it as a shit test, maintained a calm and certain demeanor, framing it as "thought you were asleep, wanted to make things clear as possible for when you wake up, I like to get things done ahead of time." Passed it with flying colors...she just calmed down and told me "well at least you're good at planning." After I hung up, I went to sleep knowing that her attraction for me probably went up, made sure I sent a 'lol wow' as a text (protip: the last text a girl reads from you before she goes to bed, when done well , can have the effect of making her persistently think of you before she sleeps, which is a good effect to have as it elicits emotional investment).

Anyway, the next day, a three hour appointment I had suddenly flaked, so I texted and offered to meet up with her earlier, but told her she could take her time as I would just find ways to pass the time. As the time passed, I texted her again and found out she was coming from a direction where, if I went to her, I could more easily bounce her back to my place. Logistics, logistics, logistics. I reacted quickly, and told her I would meet her where she was, and that she shouldn't get on the train. So that's what I ended up doing. The train decided to be slow as fuck, so she almost ditched me to get her eyebrows done at the last minute, but I maintained an unbreakable frame and led her strongly to a nearby bus while we were talking about random bullshit, then took her to eat in a place in my neighborhood, then we walked and talked about random bullshit, then we sat on a bench, and I said "well, there are a few places we can see in this neighborhood, but why don't we relax and drop our things off in my apartment before heading back out." Keep in mind she was shit testing me quite a bit the whole time, and admitted to me a couple times that she's had a bad history with men and is a bit averse to physical contact. Upon entering my apartment, we relax for a few moments, but then she seeks out my room, and walks into it. We talk about random bullshit in my room, and then she goes to lay down on my bed. I decide 'fuck it, I'm in outdoor clothing, but let me just quickly take my boots off and join her.' We talk about random bullshit on the bed, I manage to make her more comfortable with my contact (pressure on, pressure off, telling her that while she's a bit weird, we both are a bit weird, and I learned she was pretty cool). Then I get her to cuddle, then I look into her eyes and asked her if she liked me, then when she said yes I proceeded to kiss her (oh, first kiss of my life). Kissing didn't quite feel like how I expected. Then she started asking me if I'll judge her for doing this, to which I replied "no, of course not, we're human beings and this is what human beings do when they like each other." Then we started going at it. Not sure if it was shitty libido because of shit diet/sleep/health or anxiety over punching vCard or the fact that I found her bangable but not super attractive or the fact that I had to run back to the living room naked while a family member was right there to retrieve a potentially expired condom, but I had trouble maintaining an erection. Anyway, I'll leave it at that. This summary has gotten to be too long winded for my taste, and I'd rather share a few insights in bullet point form. When I hit a n-count of 10 I'll write a more comprehensive post filled with more insight.

(INSIGHTS)

-To have sex with a girl, it really boils down to two key criteria you must fill. One, her attraction and comfort with you must be at certain minimum levels (GAME). Two, the two of you must be alone together in some place (LOGISTICS). Logistics trumps game any day of the week. I honestly believe, without a doubt, that if I spent the past few years going to a real college with actual dorms, or if I spent the past year living in a neighborhood that had a decent amount of people my age or was otherwise closer to better parts of NYC (that aren't filled with jailbait and old ladies), my notch count would easily be in the double digits by now, even if my level of game was half of what it is now. I honestly believe, that if you take some random fat nerdy neckbeard with nothing going for him, and stick him into an unreal living situation where super hot women room with him, in a neighborhood where access to better men isn't easy, that the aforementioned super hot women will end up fucking him to get their needs met, and that he could easily rack up a triple digit notch count in three years as long as you cycled more women in and out. To constantly work on GAME like I have been doing, when LOGISTICS are shit, is to be rolling up a heavy barrel up a rough hill when you could easily roll the same barrel on flat ground with relatively no effort. Thankfully, I'm moving out soon, and will be sharing living space with another guy who does pickup. First real time being independent in my life, if you don't count the times I was hospitalized in my teenage years for suicidal tendencies or sent to a shitty boarding school for people with emotional issues (where I was pumped full of meds that zombified my personality and made me grow breasts and made me sterile).

-What is often underemphasized is the fact that what you do outside-of-field can affect 'success' even more than what you do in-field. For instance, getting enough sleep and ensuring you're properly dressed and for each session ensuring you have a plan of what locations you'll be passing through, what you will be specifically working on, and what criteria must be fulfilled to allow yourself to head back home. To illustrate that point, I've wasted far too much time and energy aimlessly wandering around an area (let's say, Union Square), dabbling with a set here and a set there, getting good interaction here and a meh interaction there, then succumbing to a haze of ambiguity that drains myself mentally and a walking-marathon that drains myself physically. In that same circumstance, it would be better to have a structured plan like "commute to Union Square, doing warmups along the way, then do 10 approaches that last at least 30 seconds, then after that have fun until heading back home at 8pm."

-When you have logistical issues sorted out, and when you have things going on in your life outside of game, you can integrate those facts into your interactions. For instance, when I first started out, I was just an inexperienced kid who otherwise spent most of his life browsing intellectual and edgy corners of the Internet. So even if I did an approach and the girl liked me enough to be okay with giving me her number, it would be under the pretense of "wow this guy feels confident and real enough in this very moment, let me give him my number (even though when he texts me it'll be grouped in with hundreds of other notifications and if he tries inviting me out too soon it'll feel like an obligation which will make me not want to respond to his texts"). Nowadays, I have things handled enough to a point where I can invite her out to some place I know of DURING THE INITIAL APPROACH, so that in her mind the narrative is "alright, this guy was cool and real enough, and that place sounds interesting, let me give him my number (and all we have to text about is when/where)." Once I got to the point where I started getting phone numbers from cold approach daygame, a HUGE problem I had was the fact that I would end up getting loads of these super flaky numbers because I would have a brief 2 minute interactions followed by "hey, can I have your number" followed by the girls emotions going down after I leave her and her feeling possible remorse over having her number taken so easily. These days, I make sure there is at least enough attraction and rapport and qualification (qualification is something I started to actually use in recent weeks...my game has been structureless and too 'natural' for far too long, and as you can see in my lay report up above, I'm applying more actual technique and strategy rather than just aimlessly flailing about) before I exchange contact information. Remember -- IT'S FAR BETTER TO GET A HARSH REJECTION THAN HAVE A 'NICE' INTERACTION FOLLOWED BY A FLAKEY NUMBER. The former only pains you briefly, and doesn't even feel like anything once you've had it happen enough times, but the latter will drain your energy and make you feel shitty over a longer period of time, which will sap your energy and motivation with other women, because you had hope but had that hope shattered.

-This past winter, instead of trying to dabble in online game (I got this person to take better pics, but it wasn't enough because I also needed stylistic makeovers, so what happened was that the only good pics I had were from the same night, and just consisted of me standing in front of things or standing with random women) I should have persisted with daygame. Because of the cold weather, what I should have done was focus on gaming in places like the subways and malls. I ended up hibernating too much, which fucked up my consistency.

-At the time I first created this account last summer, and logged my approaches, I realize that I really wasn't approaching as much as I should have. My earlier posts in this thread include long-winded details of otherwise mundane interactions that I shouldn't have memorized (that is, I should have been approaching such large quantities that I wouldn't be able to properly remember those mundane details).

-To any newbie who might be reading this thread...don't worry, you don't have to put in all the effort I've made to get laid for the first time. If I could guide my 19 year old self (age I was when I first found game, I'm 22 now), I would get him laid in a short fraction of the time I did. But that's because hindsight allows me to realize what I should have been focusing on. There were are lot of things I did that not only wasted time and energy and focus, but made things worse. Granted, I did come from a really difficult position (emotional scarring from adolescence, socially maladapted from years of staying home and browsing websites like /r9k/, forced to go to a shitty high school of 400 students where I couldn't relate to them because they were mostly ghetto kids from the Bronx followed by a shitty boarding school filled with basket cases who were even worse off than I was, dropped out of high school because I couldn't tolerate the bullshit anymore but dealing with the shame and my world crashing down around me, spent a year staying at home until I fixed my issues through sheer force of will - luckily finding game and personal development as outlets, started doing pickup while I was a NEET for a couple months before starting community college, forcing myself to take huge courseloads and extracurriculars at community college which took away any potential real social life (although I managed to be the most social guy on campus anyway), started working on pickup seriously again last summer even though my living situation is still shitty)).... I'd say that if you're a newbie virgin but otherwise normal guy living in a first world country with a semblance of an average life (i.e. not having to deal with numerous other issues first), you could get laid with a small fraction of the effort I've put in.

Anyway, it's good to post in this thread again. I'll be including more regular updates. Writing got more rambly towards the end but I hope it's still readable. Meh

[chitown72]

(07-23-2017 06:36 PM)MathGuy Wrote:  

or the fact that I had to run back to the living room naked while a family member was right there to retrieve a potentially expired condom, but I had trouble maintaining an erection.

LOL, which family member?