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How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters
#1

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

There is an extremely important article in today's Washington Post which points out one of the most significant -- and the most neglected -- facts about this election. It is this: the voter group that Trump has the biggest problem with is actually not minority voters (where his performance is on par with Romney's in 2012) or even women -- though he does have a massive problem with college-educated white women in particular. Rather, this group is Catholic voters.

Donald Trump has a massive Catholic problem

Quote:Quote:

Much has been made of Donald Trump’s problems with a few voting groups — female voters, blacks and Hispanics, and young voters, in particular. And, to be sure, they are all problems.

But relatively speaking, his biggest problem actually appears to be with a different group: Catholics.

...

Back in 2012, GOP nominee Mitt Romney lost the Catholic vote by just 2 points, 50 percent to 48 percent. And the GOP has actually won the Catholic vote as recently as 2004 and in 5 of the last 10 11 presidential elections.

But Trump trails among Catholics by a huge margin. A new poll from the Public Religion Research Institute released this week shows him down 23 points, 55-32.

A Washington Post-ABC News poll released earlier this month painted an even worse picture for Trump’s Catholic support. He was down by 27 points, 61-34.

If you compare the difference between Romney’s margin among Catholics in 2012 and Trump’s margin among Catholics this year, the 25-point difference is tied for the biggest shift of any demographic group in the Post-ABC poll.

...

It’s also hard to overstate just how significant Trump’s poor performance among Catholics is. That’s because they comprise about one-quarter of voters in the United States (25 percent in 2012 exit polls) and are about as big a voting bloc as non-whites (28 percent) and independents (29 percent).

While we often look at how Trump is doing worse than Romney among Hispanics, we’re really talking about the difference between Trump taking 45 percent of the vote and 46 percent — or maybe 49.5 percent or 50.5 percent. That’s because Hispanics are only about 10 percent of the electorate, and the GOP’s share of that vote is likely to be between 20 and 35 percent or so.

When talking about Catholics, though, Trump is basically adding 5 to 7 percentage points to Clinton’s overall margin. If 25 percent of the electorate is Catholic, Clinton is currently taking 14 to 15 points worth of that chunk, while Trump is taking 8 or 8.5 points. And this is a group, again, that is usually close to tied.

Re-read that last paragraph again. In a typical election, the Democratic and Republican nominees are about tied with Catholic voters (Obama won them by 2 points against Romney). Trump is trailing by about **25 percent** with this group, and it's a huge group -- about a quarter of the electorate. That is a difference of about 6 points in the electorate as a whole, which happens to be about equal to the margin between Clinton and Trump in the current polling average. In other words, if Trump could do as well as Romney did with Catholic voters, it would make the difference between trailing Clinton by a large amount and being tied with her or having a slight lead. There is no other voting block of which that can be said.

It follows that it is of absolutely critical importance to understand how Trump can do better with these voters. It could be the difference between suffering a decisive loss, and eking out a come-from-behind victory.

To understand how Trump can do better with this group of voters, we need to understand why he is trailing so badly among them in the first place. I believe these are the main reasons:
  • Catholic voters strongly believe in charity, compassion, and protection for the weak and vulnerable. They are turned off by what they perceive as Trump's obsession with "winning" and corresponding neglect for those who are life's losers.
  • Catholic voters strongly believe in the sanctity of life. They oppose both abortion and the death penalty. They see Trump as someone who is indifferent on abortion (having supported it for much of his life) and very willing to talk freely about killing and harsh punishment.
  • Catholic voters are sympathetic to immigrants (and of course, the great majority of Hispanic immigrants in the US are fellow Catholics). They dislike what they perceive to be Trump's harshly anti-immigrant rhetoric.
  • Catholic voters like personal modesty and humility and are turned off by Trump's constant bragging and self-aggrandizement. They also dislike the fact that he has seemingly no contrition about his personal past (including marital infidelity etc).
The truth is that while these are serious problems, they are also fixable to a large extent, maybe even at this late stage of the game. Here are the things that Trump should do going forward that will help him address these problems and improve his standing with Catholics:

1. As I suggested in an earlier thread, Trump should unveil a series of new proposals under the theme of Reviving the American Family. These proposals should be aimed at reversing the dramatic decline in American birth rates, and fostering a renewed commitment to a large, thriving, fertile American family. These can include a discussion of expanded maternity leave, child tax credits and exemptions, and many other policies that would help Americans have and raise more kids.

Ivanka Trump, who has spoken about these issues before, can be Trump's spokeswoman on this subject. Such a policy -- the commitment to a new #TrumpBabyBoom -- would excite Catholic voters and address the theme of LIFE which they care about so much. And unveiling it would allow Trump to showcase his single greatest asset, his loving and successful children. It would be a win/win/win. Please read that whole post for more details.


2. Continuing with the theme of LIFE, Trump should go after Hillary Clinton for her extreme position on abortion.

Abortion has not been a big issue in this election, and that's fine. But what sometimes gets lost in the binary pro-life/pro-choice divide is that most Americans are actually somewhere in the middle. They are usually against an outright abortion ban, but they also oppose allowing abortions in the third trimester and very close to birth. Many people -- including many women -- have seen videos and ultrasound images that show how the fetus looks like a fully developed human being late in the pregnancy, and they are very uneasy with ending its life.

By contrast, Hillary Clinton has been fanatically committed to an extreme pro-abortion position that does not countenance any restrictions, even very late in the term. This is a position that most Americans would see as heartless, and that should be very unpopular with Catholic voters in particular. Yet she really has not been called out on it.

That should change. Trump -- or SuperPACs supporting him -- should continually run ads outlining and denouncing Hillary's extreme, cruel and heartless pro-abortion absolutism. This will further reinforce her image among voters as personally cold, robotic, and heartless. Trump should present himself as someone within the American mainstream on this -- someone who has been pro-choice in the past and is pro-life now, but who recognizes what a tough issue this is; by contrast, Hillary is absolutely committed to the most extreme position imaginable. Catholic voters need to hear a lot more about this than they have. They understand Democrats are generally pro-choice, but they don't know how extreme Hillary's position in particular has always been.


3. Related to this, while Trump talks a lot about the importance of the Supreme Court, the only way in which he ever makes this specific is 2nd Amendment protections. But Catholics tend not to care as much about this (or even to be pro-gun control). He needs to emphasize at least two other issues: the abortion issue mentioned above (ie that Hillary would appoint extreme pro-abortion judges that would strike down any and all restrictions); and the second issue is that of religious liberty. Catholic voters care a great deal about 1st Amendment religious liberty protections, and this is an issue that will be decided by the Supreme Court over time. It is crucial for Trump -- and those who support him -- to emphasize this. He must make it clear to voters that his view of the importance of Supreme Court picks extends beyond just gun rights. And again, this should be done not just in speeches but in targeted ads in battleground states (which Trump needs to finally start running more of!)


4. On immigration, Trump needs to continue with his recent change of tone and talk about the importance of treating those who are already here in a humane and decent way. That does not mean that he needs to offer a path to citizenship or legalization; but he must make it clear that many of those who are here illegally are good people with families and lives, and that while the country must and will enforce the law, there will be no "deportation force" breaking down doors and separating families in the middle of the night -- which is the way his immigration proposals have been caricatured to voters, Catholic voters in particular. He will never win with these voters on this issue, but he can do much to soften his image and show that he understands the difficulties on a human level and that the "big heart" he often speaks about is an integral part of who he is as a human being.


5. Lastly, Trump should show more personal humility and modesty, picking his spots and using gently self-deprecating humor to do this for maximum impact. His best speech of the campaign so far was his speech in Charlotte where he expressed his regret for some things he'd said; another excellent moment was during his acceptance speech when he said he's "not totally sure he deserves" the support of Evangelical voters. He needs to have a few more pointed moments -- perhaps during a town hall or other interactions with voters, and especially in another town hall featuring his family -- where he showcases this softer side. And he needs to use his great sense of humor to poke a little fun at himself and to deflate the perception of his constant bragging and self-aggrandizement. A little self-deprecating humor at the right time and place will go a VERY long way; it will make voters feel that he is in on the joke; much better done that way than through proclamations of "humility" which could fall flat if done too programmatically or explicitly.

Doing all these things: a new theme of Reviving the American Family and ushering a #TrumpBabyBoom with Ivanka and her own beautiful family front and center; hitting Hillary's heartless abortion extremism in targeted ads; emphasizing the importance of the Supreme Court for life and religious liberty, not just guns; showing a humane and nuanced tone on immigration without compromising on policy basics; and betraying a surprising humility through gentle humor -- would go a very, very long way toward solving Trump's huge problem with Catholic voters. And that may very well make the difference in the outcome of this election.

If you like this post, feel free to share it on social media platforms where Trump's people can see it. They'll be reading the WaPo piece I cited above about Trump's problem with Catholic voters and may well pay attention to discussions that specifically address this issue.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
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#2

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

Does WaPo break it down between Whites and Hispanics? Otherwise we cannot draw any conclusions. If White Catholics support Trump in the majority but Hispanics do not, then we know it's just a Hispanic problem and not a Catholic one.

I can't view the article because it's behind a paywall and I'm too lazy to delete my cookies.

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#3

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

This is not wrong, however Catholics can be some of the most cucked of all among the Christian faiths. That or they are Mexican, only watch Univision, and think Trump hates them. Convincing them to vote for Trump would be extremely energy intensive, and the pope is not helping matters.

Catholicism in the US is not at all homogeneous as in some other countries, and that is a real difficulty. Of course I do hope that Trump captures them somehow, but I really think working more on the black demographic, for example, would provide a better return.
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#4

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

Quote: (08-28-2016 07:47 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Does WaPo break it down between Whites and Hispanics? Otherwise we cannot draw any conclusions. If White Catholics support Trump in the majority but Hispanics do not, then we know it's just a Hispanic problem and not a Catholic one.

I can't view the article because it's behind a paywall and I'm too lazy to delete my cookies.

The gap is almost entirely due to Trump's underperformance with non-Hispanic Catholics. We know this because Trump is only slightly underperforming Romney 2012 with Latinos, but he is running **25 points** behind Romney 2012 with Catholics overall. This can only be explained by massive underperformance among non-Hispanic (and mainly white) Catholic voters.

Of course overall (in absolute terms) Trump is doing even worse with Hispanic voters; but what matters most is his relative performance, ie how he is doing with a given group of voters compared to the Romney 2012 baseline. And the what the numbers show is that the group where he most severely underperforms Romney is Catholic voters in general, and non-Hispanic Catholics in particular.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
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#5

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

Quote: (08-28-2016 07:54 PM)MidJack Wrote:  

Catholicism in the US is not at all homogeneous as in some other countries, and that is a real difficulty. Of course I do hope that Trump captures them somehow, but I really think working more on the black demographic, for example, would provide a better return.

I don't think so, for the following reasons:

-- There are twice as many Catholic voters as there are black voters. So improving Trump's position with this group is twice as important, in absolute terms.

-- Trump is underperforming with Catholic voters FAR more than he is with blacks. Of course, Trump's numbers with black voters are dismal, but that's par for the course for Republican candidates. But he should be doing much much better with Catholics -- Romney got almost half of their votes, and Trump is running **25 points** behind.

-- Unlike black voters, many of these voters have voted Republican in the past, so their problem is with Trump specifically. It should be easier to bring them into the fold than it is to convert black voters who have never voted for a Republican in their entire life.

-- I think the suggestions I outlined in the OP would be quite effective and would swing many of these natural Republican voters back to Trump if they are implemented.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
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#6

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

Quote:Quote:

Related to this, while Trump talks a lot about the importance of the Supreme Court, the only way in which he ever makes this specific is 2nd Amendment protections. But Catholics tend not to care as much about this (or even to be pro-gun control). He needs to emphasize at least two other issues: the abortion issue mentioned above (ie that Hillary would appoint extreme pro-abortion judges that would strike down any and all restrictions); and the second issue is that of religious liberty. Catholic voters care a great deal about 1st Amendment religious liberty protections, and this is an issue that will be decided by the Supreme Court over time. It is crucial for Trump -- and those who support him -- to emphasize this. He must make it clear to voters that his view of the importance of Supreme Court picks extends beyond just gun rights. And again, this should be done not just in speeches but in targeted ads in battleground states (which Trump needs to finally start running more of!)

Trump has made multiple speeches about how he wants to increase religious liberty by repealing the Johnson amendment. Looks like Catholics don't know or care to learn.

Quote:Quote:

On immigration, Trump needs to continue with his recent change of tone and talk about the importance of treating those who are already here in a humane and decent way.

He's gonna do this on Wed.

I agree Trump could be stronger on abortion, show more humility, but the fact that Trump wants to repeal the Johnson amendment, and has attracted something like 90% of Evangelicals because of this, shows that Catholics are:

- Not giving a fuck what Trump says
- Only watching biased media outlets that never report on Trump's positions accurately
- Listening to orders from the Pope who hates Trump (and this percholates down through the Church leadership down to the pulpits)

I think Catholics are biased against Trump this election because they feel a greater bond with the Hispanics flooding the country than they do with actual Americans. Illegal immigration must be the pet cause holding them back from the Trump train, so we shall see if Trump's immigration speech this Wed changes any minds.

It could be that Catholics turn out to be enemies of America, who support Catholics above all others no matter what, and this will need to be addressed in a post-American collapse. Wouldn't be the first time people have had to fight against the herd mentality of Catholics.

Contributor at Return of Kings.  I got banned from twatter, which is run by little bitches and weaklings. You can follow me on Gab.

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#7

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

Here's the reality of what is happening in Catholic churches in the US right now.

Some parishes are 100% hispanic. Some are 5% hispanic. Even at the 5% church, there are at least a few very devout hispanics who actually participate in the weekly masses.

During a Catholic mass, there is a part where prayers are read out loud to the congregation, which responds by speaking in unison "Lord, hear our prayer." The reader of the prayers is a lay person, perhaps one of the devout hispanics. It goes something like this:

"We pray for our political leaders and candidates, that they may treat all persons with dignity and respect."

Maybe this doesn't happen every week, but every third or fourth week, the entire congregation hears a political statement, and then affirms that statement out loud. Then they go home and watch CNN or whatever other network and get told that Trump is racist and hates Mexicans, which means he hates their friends from church.

Like I said, I hope Trump can turn it around, but there is an institutionalized anti-Trump force at work, and I suspect he knows it.
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#8

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

What Trump needs is a second look from many of these voters. This can be done by unveiling a new and interesting proposal that would excite them. That is the point of my first suggestion (Reviving the American Family).

Once he gets that all-important second look, all the other suggestions I detailed could come into play, many of them through targeted ads aired in battleground states (such as ads hitting Hillary for her pro-abortion extremism). But he needs to do something pointed that would get him that second look; right now many of these voters are not receptive to him.

EDIT: MidJack, clearly doing this won't be easy and no doubt there is a lot of institutional resistance (among other things). But this is such an important voting block, and Trump's underperformance with them is so remarkable, that he MUST try to bring some of these voters back into the fold. Many of them are traditional Republican voters and Hillary is not someone they like or agree with. So there is hope of converting them if he can get a second look from them.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
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#9

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

I should add an important technical point/disclaimer to this post, which didn't make it into the OP (since it was long enough as it is).

It's probably not the case that Trump is underperforming Romney 2012 by a full 25 points with Catholic voters. That is because this number comes from a comparison between pre-election (2016) polls, and post-election (2012) exit polls. Exit polls are, in general, quite different from pre-election polls and give a different picture of the electorate. So all such comparisons must be made with great caution.

Nevertheless, the two electorates are almost certainly not SO different that the effect would disappear -- it's just too big for that. So while Trump's underperformance among Catholic voters is very likely not quite as stunning as the 25% number, it is clear that this is a group that Trump should be doing much much better with than he is, and I believe the suggestions outlined in the OP would help him close that gap, whatever its exact size.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
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#10

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

Samseau I loved your post there, I too have been floored by the Catholic proclivity to vote Democrat. I have been told that it is due to remnant loyalty to the Democrats when JFK was President but at this point I have no explanation. They talk big game about being all for the most Pro Life / Traditional Marriage candidate but when they are in the voting booth where only God can judge them, they pull the lever for socialist goodies like welfare and social programs.

In case anyone is curious, Ann Cocoran has been pushing the narrative that Catholic Charities are a major reason why America has the refugee problem that it currently has. The charities will get up to $2000 per head it can resettle in Middle American communities, so they have financial incentive from Obama and co. to bring in as many future Democrat voters as possible.
Here is the "Catholic Charity" tag in the Refugee Resettlement blog, just browse through there for some englightment on how these groups are true enemies of America:
https://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpre...charities/

Here is a 38 page PDF of "Charities" who "Sponsor" (aka get paid by the State Department) refugees. Note how they all seem to include the word "Catholic" in the organization name.
Edit- oops forgot link http://www.wrapsnet.org/Portals/1/Affili...ectory.pdf

I hate to be such a Negative Nancy on this thread because LoOz is trying to give suggestions on how Mr Trump can reach out to this voting bloc but I just cannot be positive about the political state of Catholocism in America right now. Plus I look like I have a real bone to pick here after this brief discussion on the Hillary thread regarding the Catholic VP Kaine, here is what I said, some interesting responses after from RVF Users Hydrogonian and Dispenser
thread-46680...pid1368606

But the reason I post about it is out of pure curiosity, I just struggle to grasp it as I have a relative who is a prominent member of the Catholic community who will defend the word of the Pope no matter what, which leads to interesting conversations at the dinner table as many of our relatives and myself are oil industry guys who despise the Pope's climate change hysteria...
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#11

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

I'm skeptical that there is a large non-Hispanic Catholic bloc at all. Sure these people identify as Catholic, but how many of them are practising? Most of them are basic white Americans who tick the Catholic box when asked about religion, but whose real faith is whatever is in the air at the time. And that's liberalism, or in the case of Republican voters, cuckservatism. So Trump should pander to cuckservative nominal Catholics? Like the current Pope does?

Dr Johnson rumbles with the RawGod. And lives to regret it.
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#12

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

Excellent analysis OP. You are right on the money I probably only differ with you on the effect of Trump hammering the pro-life thing.

I'm Catholic and big fan of Trump from the beginning.. My reason: he is more likely to reestablish a middle-class with trade/economic policies.

Practicing Catholics (and many cultural ones) are huge on family. Makes sense considering most have moderate to large families or grew up in those families. Trump's notion of reviving the middle-class family would win them over.

I have spoken with other Catholics since last year that have slowly transitioned from towing the line with "Trump is xenophobic" to "Trump is our only hope". For many the reason for this is that many of them see Hilary as corrupt and having an aggressive foreign policy that will most likely lead to war/conflicts with other nations, including Russia.

As far as conscience issues e.g. abortion/gay marriage - these are important but i don't think a lot of Catholic voters are ruled by these issues.. Everyone knows Republicans are typically pro-life and more socially conservative, yet we've had a democratic president who is radically pro-choice for 2 terms.

I think Catholics will be swayed more for pro-family economic policies more than pro-life or pro-traditional marriage policies.. here's why:

Less people working = a diminishing group of middle class families to consume goods/services = less demand = fewer economic opportunities = EVERYTHING IS WORSE including there being less money to raise kids and as a result, more abortions
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#13

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

Quote: (08-28-2016 09:41 PM)komatiite Wrote:  

Samseau I loved your post there, I too have been floored by the Catholic proclivity to vote Democrat. I have been told that it is due to remnant loyalty to the Democrats when JFK was President but at this point I have no explanation. They talk big game about being all for the most Pro Life / Traditional Marriage candidate but when they are in the voting booth where only God can judge them, they pull the lever for socialist goodies like welfare and social programs.

Day of Broken Arrows made a real good post about modern Catholicism and its cuckish nature. I wish I could find it but it was posted quite awhile back (2 months ago?) but it provided deeper insight into the mentality of American Catholics and their need to promote social welfare and by default aspects of social justice.

From my own observations Catholicism depends very much on expanding their flock and keeping the gravy train rolling in order to keep the vast bloated bureaucracy that is the Vatican running. This means that they are inherently globalist as long as it benefits the primary church coffers. Modern Catholicism seems to be at odds with all nationalist and ethnonationalist movements.
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#14

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

Quote: (08-28-2016 09:56 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

I'm skeptical that there is a large non-Hispanic Catholic bloc at all. Sure these people identify as Catholic, but how many of them are practising? Most of them are basic white Americans who tick the Catholic box when asked about religion, but whose real faith is whatever is in the air at the time. And that's liberalism, or in the case of Republican voters, cuckservatism. So Trump should pander to cuckservative nominal Catholics? Like the current Pope does?

I think it's fairly obvious that the Catholic Church is totally corrupt, and has since perverted the original message of Christianity into Cuckinanity.

If you want to read something utterly revolting, click here:

http://i.imgur.com/8ns9iIh.jpg (safe for work)

The good news is that the Catholic Church is losing it's White productive members rapidly. Pretty much all of it's new membership is third-world and will not be able to fill the Vatican's coffers to spread faggotry for much longer.

Who knows, once the Catholics hit rock bottom, they may yet become humble enough to follow the Bible again? Or it will finally bite the dust when their non-White "converts" discover they can no longer milk the Church for anything useful?

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#15

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

Quote: (08-28-2016 08:58 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

What Trump needs is a second look from many of these voters. This can be done by unveiling a new and interesting proposal that would excite them. That is the point of my first suggestion (Reviving the American Family).

Once he gets that all-important second look, all the other suggestions I detailed could come into play, many of them through targeted ads aired in battleground states (such as ads hitting Hillary for her pro-abortion extremism). But he needs to do something pointed that would get him that second look; right now many of these voters are not receptive to him.

Without a doubt, Ivanka's proposal for tax-deductions for child-care costs as part of a family revival program would be really popular with lots of people. Even if it doesn't get Catholics it could still get a lot of new voters.

Contributor at Return of Kings.  I got banned from twatter, which is run by little bitches and weaklings. You can follow me on Gab.

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#16

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

Quote: (08-28-2016 10:34 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

The good news is that the Catholic Church is losing it's White productive members rapidly. Pretty much all of it's new membership is third-world and will not be able to fill the Vatican's coffers to spread faggotry for much longer.

From my experience living in a third world Catholic country the way the Church makes up for this is worming its way into high level political influence. Separation of Church and state is largely a concept of western enlightenment which is alien to many of these other countries. This means the Catholic church can engage in graft and corruption at their leisure as long as they have sympathetic politicians in their pocket.

The Church has had a devastating influence on countries like the Philippines.
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#17

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

Quote: (08-28-2016 10:45 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

Quote: (08-28-2016 10:34 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

The good news is that the Catholic Church is losing it's White productive members rapidly. Pretty much all of it's new membership is third-world and will not be able to fill the Vatican's coffers to spread faggotry for much longer.

From my experience living in a third world Catholic country the way the Church makes up for this is worming its way into high level political influence. Separation of Church and state is largely a concept of western enlightenment which is alien to many of these other countries. This means the Catholic church can engage in graft and corruption at their leisure as long as they have sympathetic politicians in their pocket.

The Church has had a devastating influence on countries like the Philippines.

Good point. I noticed Philippines' latest Prez openly talks trash to the Catholic Church. Hopefully they'll have their Church of England moment soon. But I'm sure South America is exploited by the Catholics as well.

So this also means illegal immigration into the USA is profitable for the Catholic Church as well.

I really hate this Church, the end result is after people wise up to the Catholic scam they reject Christ altogether and throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Contributor at Return of Kings.  I got banned from twatter, which is run by little bitches and weaklings. You can follow me on Gab.

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#18

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

Quote: (08-28-2016 08:54 PM)MidJack Wrote:  

Here's the reality of what is happening in Catholic churches in the US right now.

Some parishes are 100% hispanic. Some are 5% hispanic. Even at the 5% church, there are at least a few very devout hispanics who actually participate in the weekly masses.

During a Catholic mass, there is a part where prayers are read out loud to the congregation, which responds by speaking in unison "Lord, hear our prayer." The reader of the prayers is a lay person, perhaps one of the devout hispanics. It goes something like this:

"We pray for our political leaders and candidates, that they may treat all persons with dignity and respect."

Maybe this doesn't happen every week, but every third or fourth week, the entire congregation hears a political statement, and then affirms that statement out loud. Then they go home and watch CNN or whatever other network and get told that Trump is racist and hates Mexicans, which means he hates their friends from church.

Like I said, I hope Trump can turn it around, but there is an institutionalized anti-Trump force at work, and I suspect he knows it.

I don't know shit about Trump or politics, but it's becoming increasingly common among Hispanic immigrants, regardless of their immgration status, to convert from Catholicism to some protestant denomination after they get to the United States, often soon after. If you don't believe me, check out what denomination most churches in Miami are. Catholic is the minority in many U.S. Hispanic communities, although Latin America is obviously predominantly Catholic.
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#19

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

Quote: (08-28-2016 10:34 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

http://i.imgur.com/8ns9iIh.jpg (safe for work)

I thought this was going to be something fucked up about pedophiles or something!! Was just some guy being told to forgive his wife for having an affair on an internet forum. You are naive if you haven't come to expect that kind of chat from ALL Christian denominations not just catholics. There's plenty of Christian SJWs!!
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#20

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

Quote: (08-28-2016 10:34 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

Quote: (08-28-2016 09:41 PM)komatiite Wrote:  

Samseau I loved your post there, I too have been floored by the Catholic proclivity to vote Democrat. I have been told that it is due to remnant loyalty to the Democrats when JFK was President but at this point I have no explanation. They talk big game about being all for the most Pro Life / Traditional Marriage candidate but when they are in the voting booth where only God can judge them, they pull the lever for socialist goodies like welfare and social programs.

Day of Broken Arrows made a real good post about modern Catholicism and its cuckish nature. I wish I could find it but it was posted quite awhile back (2 months ago?) but it provided deeper insight into the mentality of American Catholics and their need to promote social welfare and by default aspects of social justice.

From my own observations Catholicism depends very much on expanding their flock and keeping the gravy train rolling in order to keep the vast bloated bureaucracy that is the Vatican running. This means that they are inherently globalist as long as it benefits the primary church coffers. Modern Catholicism seems to be at odds with all nationalist and ethnonationalist movements.

Yet every fascist state was devoutly Catholic.
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#21

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

I don't believe Catholicism has anything to do with it.

1.) He has a big problem with Hispanics.

2.) Many of my female family members are heavily Catholic, but have been blinded by the media. [They are Australian, and can't vote, but if I was to line policies up side by side, They would unknowingly pick Trump]. Many people don't realize that they agree with his stances on various issues.

The other aspect I have noticed is that a blind sighted loyalty to feminism runs far deeper than a loyalty to their faith [And these are heavy Catholics].
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#22

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

I know there's a post minimum in the Politics subforum, but I've been a member here a long time and I've contributed to plenty of forum members' professional advancement in real life so I'm just going to go ahead and drop an anecdote here because this topic hits close to home. I won't post again unless it's necessary to respond to this specific posting.

I come from one of those large, lower middle class, non-East Coast, Irish Catholic families. I'm talking the people who settled Oklahoma during the Land Run like in that Tom Cruise movie "Far and Away." Two generations later, a large number of those settlers' descendants moved west in the 30s with the rest of the Okies, but still married Irish Catholic almost exclusively. That has persisted basically until my generation. Both of my parents are Irish Catholic and pretty much all the names are too going back through the entire extended family tree. I know I'm going off on a tangent here, but I think no one intermarried because Oklahoma is Anglo-Saxon/Scots-Irish Southern Baptist/Methodist territory and there just weren't any other Catholic ethnicities like in parts of the upper Midwest. The same thing happened in the 30s in the areas of California they settled in. Anyway...

Unlike our distant cousins in the Eastern Seaboard or Chicago who have a history of voting Democrat due to union influence or political machine benefits, my family, both still in OK/KS and in CA, was solidly Republican leading into 2008. My dad has 10 siblings and my mom 4, making for an extended family of +40 on dad's side and 22 on mom's. I'd put it at 95% Republican at that time. That's a lot of white Catholic Republicans, a point I'll come back to in a minute.

That's the year (or maybe a couple of years before because of Iraq War fatigue) people started to switch. In 2008, it was mostly the women who fell for the Obama propaganda, but several of the men did too. For instance, my grandmother, someone who had never voted for a single Democrat before, voted Obama in 2008 and 2012. Several of my aunts also did the same. Oprah had really gotten to them.

What I noticed during those couple of years was that the homilies and prayers in unison (I don't remember the correct term for it) all became much more universalistic and "tolerant." Gone were the prayers for self-control, penance, and and personal connection with God. In their place there were prayers for community assistance, hopes for finding a job, return of parish troops from the war zones, and acceptance of others. Whenever I was visiting home, I'd go to mass with my parents and grandparents, but didn't think much of it because I really wasn't paying attention and really wasn't much of a believer (still not).

However, in hindsight, those mid-2000s were the time when the Church was really under pressure to cleanse it's "pedophile problem." I'm not going to create a conspiracy theory here, but things definitely changed during those years. In a way, I think the Church was shamed into becoming more "tolerant" and progressive by the media and various other groups holding the child molester charge over its head. For example, my grandparent's priest was implicated in that, which was something that brought bewilderment as well as shame.

Anyway, I think almost all of those family members who voted Obama in 2008 also voted for him in 2012, with all of the newly minted voters who turned 18 between elections also going Democrat.

Flash forward to today and the divide in the family is almost solely based on gender and schooling. Almost all of the women don't like Trump despite any attempt at reasoning with them (imagine that). I'd say 70% of the women are in the Hillary camp because Trump is "so vulgar and racist." I can't read their Facebook feeds. It's painful.

The men on the other hand are the polar opposite. Pretty much all of them, even the majority of those who voted Obama in 2008 and 2012, are unabashedly pro-Trump. I think the extended family has become much more right wing over the last 3 years. The only men who are not are the under 35 urban professional crowd who went to Catholic universities and UCs. I'm talking Notre Dame, St. Mary's, and Loyola Marymount, UC Santa Cruz crowd. All of those dudes are as anti-Trump as you can get. All of us who went to your Chico States/UNLVs of the world were spared that.

So to make an already too long anecdote short: the Church came under fire a decade ago for child sexual abuse and made a turn towards "progressivism." This turn, coupled with constant propaganda in the media, has shifted white Catholic women very far left. The men have also shifted but it's mostly those who have been indoctrinated via overpriced schooling, white collar conformity, and just general pussy ass millennial behavior.

In short, I'd agree with earlier posters that, outside of Boston and NY, white Catholics are more prone to vote Democrat, but I think the atrocious Catholic numbers in the OP are more due to immigrant Catholic groups like Hispanics, Filipinos, Nigerians, etc. What that means for Trump's strategy, I don't know.
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#23

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

What the above confirms is that this election is all about culture. Over in Britain the same could be said for the Brexit vote. People who voted for Brexit I geniuenly are not concerned about the economic incentives or if we were to face economic hardships in the next decade or so due to leaving the European Union. The EU symbolised political correctness, immigration, new leftism, a general collection of everything. Interestingly enough the media at the time painted these people as fools for talking about muslim immigration.

But indirectly they were correct, however the bigger picture was being missed when they were having interviews with working class whites in the North of England. Before European voters would compromise and use rationality even if it went against their groups best interests. Now they don't care and will take a risk in order to prove a point. Something which really put the frighteners on the left. Which is used to relying on their opposition's predictability and complacency.

Come November time, we really will see where the country stands on the cultural issues of our time.
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#24

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

@ Constitution.

The difference between whites voting against the EU and Catholics voting against Trump is the religious indoctrination. The former came together on the basis the EU was taking away what made Britain, Britain.

Catholics in the US are in my experience, like every other highly religious group of people, a crowd of sheep led by those who can easily manipulate. There were very good reasons pedophiles flourished in the Catholic church and one of them was the ability to hide in plain sight and fool the congregation.

Now we see the same thing occurring when dealing with politics. The guy talking at the congregation is telling them who to vote for.

It is this blind obedience the likes of Hillary love to call supporters. You can always count on it.
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#25

How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters

^^ Point taken,

A lot of Christians don't understand the rules of this new game. Problem the reason why all of the major cultural changes in the last 30 years, have eventually been accepted by Christianity or even adopted as being Christian virtues. For example the Church of England strongly supports immigration into Europe under the 'Refugee crisis'. The environment in which people ideally would point out that this actually poses a threat to Christianity in many places, just simply doesn't exist.
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