[Drazen]

(08-03-2016 01:55 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

(08-03-2016 01:47 PM)Drazen Wrote:  

One of my friends from college was just killed in this. Kind of shocking, not sure what to think about it when it hits so close.

Your college educated friend turned slum drug lord? Sorry to hear, but you got to tell the whole story here.

I haven't seen him since college. He was fairly wealthy though and sold weed in college. I'm assuming he was a little higher up the chain of things in the Philippines. There was a "hit list" and I'm thinking he was probably on it.

[Drazen]

Here is a list of those killed.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/794598/kill...gs-duterte

For example, this is from Monday:

Quote:

AUGUST 1, 2016

12:20 a.m. | Unidentified drug suspect #107 | Pasay City, Metro Manila | Found dead with a sign on his body saying, “Snatcher ako sa Edsa, wag tularan.”

1:25 a.m. | Unidentified drug suspect #108 | MacArthur Bridge, Manila | Found dead with a sign on his body calling him a snatcher, holdup man, burglar and drug pusher and urging other people not to emulate him

3:30 a.m. | Unidentified drug suspect #109 | Sta. Mesa, Manila | Found dead with a sign on his body saying, “I’m a Chinese drug lord.”

4:30 a.m. | Unidentified drug suspect #110 | Intramuros, Manila | Found dead with a sign on her body saying, “Chinese drug lord.”
Alias “Roby,” suspected drug pusher | Port Area, Manila | Killed in police buy-bust operation
Sahir Omar | Port Area, Manila | Killed in police buy-bust operation
Unidentified drug suspect #111 | Port Area, Manila | Killed in police buy-bust operation

[username]

(08-03-2016 12:11 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  

What are the risk of local cops using this as an opportunity to continue blood feuds?

What I mean is, let's say one clan, extended family A, pushed out family B from their local business, and bought up their old land. Family B always resents it, and the two families hate each other.

One of the male members of family B joins up the local police force, and "discovers" that family A is involved in the drug trade, their patriarch is killed while "resisting arrest".

Is that a thing of the past already? If not, are there checks in place to stop it, or is it just considered a small price to pay for the bigger picture? Either way, I hope Duterte manages to clean up the country and get rid of the cartels. They deserve everything that's coming to them.

There are no checks. Have someone you want to kill, kill him, and put a sign around his neck saying "drug cartel member." No trial, no jury, nothing. The Philippines has just fucked itself trying to clean itself up. You expect a nation having the ability to murder without consequences and it not to become a total disaster? Like thoughtgypsy said, this will be used as a way to get rid of "inconvenient" people standing in the way. That asshole won't sell his land? Fuck him. He is now a drug dealer let's kill him. He's gone and his wife won't sell it? Fuck her that bitch is the real drug mastermind kill her. Hell, might now be able to get the land for free.

[GlobalMan]

(08-03-2016 02:48 PM)username Wrote:  

The Philippines has just fucked itself trying to clean itself up.

I don't know if this is the way or not, it certainly is unsavory, but what other way would have any results in a place that is as fucked up as the Phils? It's a completely different world to the West.

With that level of deeply rooted societal corruption and crime, and poverty, how would one make a dent otherwise? No amount of initiatives or programs have done shit or will do shit.

How should they take back control? How much longer should the domination of criminal gangs and terrorists be allowed to stand and destroy the country further?

When you have islamic terrorists, political bombings, entire sections of the police force corrupt, insane drug gangs.. it's a state of emergency, and this is the response to that.

It may very well end up having the opposite effect, we'll have to see, but this has been going on in Davao well before now and as far as we can tell it hasn't been a mess of killings over land and other things as suggested, it has mostly worked as intended.

On principle I don't like the idea of this at all, but I'm not a Filipino enduring the horrible shit they've had to put up with for years. If the whole country turns into a Davao, it can only be good for the citizens.

[Enigma]

(08-03-2016 02:48 PM)username Wrote:  

(08-03-2016 12:11 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  

What are the risk of local cops using this as an opportunity to continue blood feuds?

What I mean is, let's say one clan, extended family A, pushed out family B from their local business, and bought up their old land. Family B always resents it, and the two families hate each other.

One of the male members of family B joins up the local police force, and "discovers" that family A is involved in the drug trade, their patriarch is killed while "resisting arrest".

Is that a thing of the past already? If not, are there checks in place to stop it, or is it just considered a small price to pay for the bigger picture? Either way, I hope Duterte manages to clean up the country and get rid of the cartels. They deserve everything that's coming to them.

There are no checks. Have someone you want to kill, kill him, and put a sign around his neck saying "drug cartel member." No trial, no jury, nothing. The Philippines has just fucked itself trying to clean itself up. You expect a nation having the ability to murder without consequences and it not to become a total disaster? Like thoughtgypsy said, this will be used as a way to get rid of "inconvenient" people standing in the way. That asshole won't sell his land? Fuck him. He is now a drug dealer let's kill him. He's gone and his wife won't sell it? Fuck her that bitch is the real drug mastermind kill her. Hell, might now be able to get the land for free.

You guys are speaking from perspective of the West, where you can get connected to a murder from a pubic hair left under a couch cushion.

Murder without consequence is already the default state of the Philippines.

Even police, politicians, and journalists are killed on a regular basis. In most cases, their assassins don't even bother to cover their faces. That's because even when the police do care to investigate, they rarely solve most of the country's murders.

The people who would take advantage of this to kill people unjustly would have done it anyway -- and gotten away with it.

All this does is shift the power away from the criminals and more to the law abiding citizens.

I'd suggest anyone who's curious to watch that video I posted and notice how almost every single criminal nonchalantly talks about their crimes, their gang dealings, etc. on camera without their face blurred, even when they're already in prison.

[GlobalMan]

(08-03-2016 03:22 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

(08-03-2016 02:48 PM)username Wrote:  

There are no checks. Have someone you want to kill, kill him, and put a sign around his neck saying "drug cartel member." No trial, no jury, nothing. The Philippines has just fucked itself trying to clean itself up. You expect a nation having the ability to murder without consequences and it not to become a total disaster? Like thoughtgypsy said, this will be used as a way to get rid of "inconvenient" people standing in the way. That asshole won't sell his land? Fuck him. He is now a drug dealer let's kill him. He's gone and his wife won't sell it? Fuck her that bitch is the real drug mastermind kill her. Hell, might now be able to get the land for free.

You guys are speaking from perspective of the West, where you can get connected to a murder from a pubic hair left under a couch cushion.

Murder without consequence is already the default state of the Philippines.

All this does is shift the power away from the criminals and more to the law abiding citizens.

I intended to add this to my post but forgot, this is the crucial point.

One can already kill with little chance of getting punished, that is already the default. Allowing the elimination of criminals is not going to embolden anyone further- they could, would and do already kill when they want.

[Hoo]

If crime and corruption are the biggest issues, why not just legalize everything?

To make it short, does business of selling LEGAL alcohol cause any serious corruption/crime/gang wars?

WEST tried whole "war on drugs" and it failed, always and always MISERABLY. It's a great shame how many innocent lives were destroyed in the process.

Couldn't explain it better then Friedman, who was at least 20 years ahead of his time on this issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLsCC0LZxkY

[thoughtgypsy]

(08-03-2016 03:22 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

You guys are speaking from perspective of the West...

I think you and username are taking what I asked out of context. The last part of my post was cut off in the quote, and it should help put what I said in context:

Quote:

I used to see poor kids selling roses on the side of the street, and later learning that they're owned by the cartels. They take any money the kids earn, and then hook them on rugby (industrial solvents that cause brain damage, addiction, and lower appetites), while letting them starve. I knew there wasn't much I could do to help their situation, so I'd always get part of my meal wrapped up to give to them in case I came across any. It's beyond tragic, and helps put into perspective the evil that Duterte is attempting to dismantle.

I'm actually fully supportive of what Duterte is doing.

[dispenser]

Can't say I miss the dead dealers, but vigilantism is a bad idea.
A government needs to control violence within its borders to be a government.

What happens if Mindanao secessionists start knocking off rivals by framing them as drug dealers?
It's not as if they even need to fake evidence.

[Dark Knowledge]

I don't have a problem with it. However, suspects should stand trial before they're executed. This could backfire in the long run.

[El Chinito loco]

People who say this will be used to carry out vendettas don't understand the Philippines too well. This already happens all the time. It's ridiculously easy to get someone murked in the P.I.

Life is extremely cheap there.

About 100k pesos (maybe far less for locals) which is about $2,000 is probably all it would take to hire a killer from the slums.

There have been incidents where white foreigners were popped in broad daylight in the middle of Makati over personal beef with a connected local guy.

Open hits happen all the time in shithole red light cities like Angeles too. Lone gunmen walking right into a nightclub and shooting the owner dead while everyone watches.

This is why i'm always saying that it's best to keep a low to medium profile in the P.I. Don't act like a billy badass foreigner there you will eventually step on the wrong toes if you're not careful and some people will pop you without a second thought.

Duterte's motorcycle assassins are actually pretty methodical. They go street to street, sector by sector mopping up the region. There is a running amnesty period where criminals and even corrupt cops can turn themselves in and get rehab and reduced sentences. That is more than generous.

The reason why this worked in Davao is because Duterte was very harsh about who he surrounded himself with. His inner circle was held to a very high standard complete with random drug checks etc.. A high position did not insulate you under his regime. This is what he's doing in Manila right now too.

[Onto]

(08-03-2016 03:07 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

(08-03-2016 02:48 PM)username Wrote:  

The Philippines has just fucked itself trying to clean itself up.

I don't know if this is the way or not, it certainly is unsavory, but what other way would have any results in a place that is as fucked up as the Phils? It's a completely different world to the West.

With that level of deeply rooted societal corruption and crime, and poverty, how would one make a dent otherwise? No amount of initiatives or programs have done shit or will do shit.

How should they take back control? How much longer should the domination of criminal gangs and terrorists be allowed to stand and destroy the country further?

When you have islamic terrorists, political bombings, entire sections of the police force corrupt, insane drug gangs.. it's a state of emergency, and this is the response to that.

It may very well end up having the opposite effect, we'll have to see, but this has been going on in Davao well before now and as far as we can tell it hasn't been a mess of killings over land and other things as suggested, it has mostly worked as intended.

On principle I don't like the idea of this at all, but I'm not a Filipino enduring the horrible shit they've had to put up with for years. If the whole country turns into a Davao, it can only be good for the citizens.

I imagine in a small city like Davao, a Mayor can monitor the executioners more closely to make sure the right people are getting wiped out for the right reasons, but I'm not sure how well that kind of "quality control" can be administered on a larger scale with much more territory/people/players involved.

Either way, it's certainly a low-level reactionary method to dealing with crime. They really are shooting and asking questions later, throwing the baby out with the bathwater, etc.

Maybe when a country has devolved into such lawlessness it's the only solution that appears? I don't know. Davao certainly felt safe to me a couple years ago, but so did Makati/The Fort.

It's unimaginable for me to think of summary executions being the de-facto state here in America. But here, the quality of life is so good that most people don't want to risk losing their freedom, even if it's just for a few years. Also the legal system is so developed here the chances of getting caught and prosecuted are quite good.

Why can't that happen in the Philippines? Is it because the police/prosecutors/judges are all corrupt? Laws aren't strict enough?

If that's the case, it would seem killing the drug dealers/users won't solve the real problem, but maybe the President will be addressing the corruption also. Will those corrupt Police/Prosecutors/Judges/Politicians be summarily executed as well? I wonder.

The problem I see with all of it is that people are going to shape up only because they have the threat of the sword at their neck.

It reminds me of the Radical Islamist's claim of moral superiority over the West, but their morality is a false one because it's only achieved while the blade is resting so close to their jugular.

Only when you're free to sin without the threat of immediate death, but choose not to sin anyway does a person achieve some kind of true morality. The West maybe the Vortex of immorality spewing out into the world, and I don't deny that, but at least it's a place where one can be free to make mistakes, and learn/grow from them.

I've known several people who've been in jail for drug dealing and have come out changed men. I guess I just don't view drugs as a sin worth executing someone over.

[thoughtgypsy]

(08-03-2016 12:11 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  

Is that [blood feuds] a thing of the past already? If not, are there checks in place to stop it, or is it just considered a small price to pay for the bigger picture?

(08-03-2016 10:07 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

People who say this will be used to carry out vendettas don't understand the Philippines too well. This already happens all the time. It's ridiculously easy to get someone murked in the P.I.

In other words, yes, blood feuds are still going on, and they're considered a small price to pay for the bigger picture (considering they're going to happen anyway). I can get on board with that.

[scotian]

This reminds me of the False Positives Scandal that rocked Colombia a few years ago. Basically the government was giving cash rewards to members of the military if they could prove that they killed a guerrilla and they ended up really abusing the program. I read stories of military guys putting work ads in the paper in remote areas of high unemployment, they'd round up 20+ young guys from the country side who thought they were going to work, bus them to a city, execute them and dress them up as guerillas and collect their cash. This crazy shit and lack of respect for human life in some of these third world shit holes is appalling. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22False...22_scandal

[El Chinito loco]

(08-04-2016 09:29 AM)scotian Wrote:  

This reminds me of the False Positives Scandal that rocked Colombia a few years ago. Basically the government was giving cash rewards to members of the military if they could prove that they killed a guerrilla and they ended up really abusing the program. I read stories of military guys putting work ads in the paper in remote areas of high unemployment, they'd round up 20+ young guys from the country side who thought they were going to work, bus them to a city, execute them and dress them up as guerillas and collect their cash. This crazy shit and lack of respect for human life in some of these third world shit holes is appalling. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22False...22_scandal

It's definitely not fool proof. Let's say Duterte's tenure doesn't last that long and he suffers from an unnatural death which is a very real possibility for any politician in the Philippines.

Then he's replaced by someone with less than noble intentions but who maintains the same policy. It would become an absolute blood bath like you said.


I don't think these motorcycle assassins are held to some bodycount quota though. They do this incognito and are more like Shogun assasins from feudal Japan. They show up in the middle of the night to murk people, throw down an official calling card, and then disappear before sunrise.

They aren't looking for scalps or to monetize their work. It would be fascinating to see what the day to day routine is for some of these guys. Imagine getting dressed for work and hopping on a motorcycle knowing that you're going to spend the next few hours riding around blasting people.

Do they punch in timecards at the station? It's fascinating. Based on what I know about Duterte though I have a feeling that the guys tapped for this line of work are extremely loyal and mostly good men. They are not as psychotic as we would assume. Popping drug pushers and scumbags can be a guilt free job if you rationalize it a certain way.

Most likely they have an established military record too. Duterte is a big fan of putting guys with service history in positions. So maybe many of these guys have seen extensive combat before in the south and this is no big deal to them.

[Phoenix]

Just doesn't seem like the best way to do it.

People forget: drugs are very cheap to manufacture. If GSK got into the meth or cocaine or heroin business, the price per pound would drop to a few bucks tops. The prices are only created by the government's activity.

I reckon the best way to deal with this is this:
- Designate an official "drug shithole"
- In the said shithole, all drugs are provided free in any quantity by the government under one condition: anyone caught trying to leave with drugs will be shot
- There is a free bus
- Nobody can be taken there against their will
- Any media released from that city must go through a government censor, lest those cunts somehow twist it into pull-heartstrings "it's everyone else's fault" shit versus they did it to themselves, which gets some turd elected to dismantle it
- Wait for all the druggos to drain into that city (and don't lay a hand on any of them lest you discourage them)
- The druggos get so drugged out they all die in the gutters by their own accord

[El Chinito loco]

(08-04-2016 10:29 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

Just doesn't seem like the best way to do it.

People forget: drugs are very cheap to manufacture. If GSK got into the meth or cocaine or heroin business, the price per pound would drop to a few bucks tops. The prices are only created by the government's activity.

I reckon the best way to deal with this is this:
- Designate an official "drug shithole"
- In the said shithole, all drugs are provided free in any quantity by the government under one condition: anyone caught trying to leave with drugs will be shot
- There is a free bus
- Nobody can be taken there against their will
- Any media released from that city must go through a government censor, lest those cunts somehow twist it into pull-heartstrings "it's everyone else's fault" shit versus they did it to themselves, which gets some turd elected to dismantle it
- Wait for all the druggos to drain into that city (and don't lay a hand on any of them lest you discourage them)
- The druggos get so drugged out they all die in the gutters by their own accord

Interesting idea. The Philippines is full of islands too. They can even make it an island destination on a tiny fairly secluded spot. Daily plane flights.

Government taxes all drug commerce.

I'm sure lots of retarded western tourists would flock there too. Just flood it with drugs and hedonism but as you said if you take it elsewhere you immediately get shot and thrown into the ocean.

[TravelerKai]

(08-04-2016 09:51 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:29 AM)scotian Wrote:  

This reminds me of the False Positives Scandal that rocked Colombia a few years ago. Basically the government was giving cash rewards to members of the military if they could prove that they killed a guerrilla and they ended up really abusing the program. I read stories of military guys putting work ads in the paper in remote areas of high unemployment, they'd round up 20+ young guys from the country side who thought they were going to work, bus them to a city, execute them and dress them up as guerillas and collect their cash. This crazy shit and lack of respect for human life in some of these third world shit holes is appalling. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22False...22_scandal

It's definitely not fool proof. Let's say Duterte's tenure doesn't last that long and he suffers from an unnatural death which is a very real possibility for any politician in the Philippines.

Then he's replaced by someone with less than noble intentions but who maintains the same policy. It would become an absolute blood bath like you said.


I don't think these motorcycle assassins are held to some bodycount quota though. They do this incognito and are more like Shogun assasins from feudal Japan. They show up in the middle of the night to murk people, throw down an official calling card, and then disappear before sunrise.

They aren't looking for scalps or to monetize their work. It would be fascinating to see what the day to day routine is for some of these guys. Imagine getting dressed for work and hopping on a motorcycle knowing that you're going to spend the next few hours riding around blasting people.

Do they punch in timecards at the station? It's fascinating. Based on what I know about Duterte though I have a feeling that the guys tapped for this line of work are extremely loyal and mostly good men. They are not as psychotic as we would assume. Popping drug pushers and scumbags can be a guilt free job if you rationalize it a certain way.

Most likely they have an established military record too. Duterte is a big fan of putting guys with service history in positions. So maybe many of these guys have seen extensive combat before in the south and this is no big deal to them.

It's pretty obvious he is trying to copy to some extent Brazil's BOPE. Motorcycles are more mobile and can get in and out quickly without the chaotic feel of a team of 8-20 Special Ops guys armed to the teeth locking down an entire section to snatch drug runners.

Mexico has the same thing going right now with Spec Ops trained military guys wearing face hoods that have a different chain of command they follow.

Super selective processes make it alot harder to corrupt the men doing it because they pick guys that are incredibly loyal to their country, almost to a fault. If they are anything like Brazil, the drop out rate from selection, or the handpicked selection process must have hundreds of candidates not chosen or give up trying to make the cut.

[El Chinito loco]

(08-04-2016 10:42 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:51 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:29 AM)scotian Wrote:  

This reminds me of the False Positives Scandal that rocked Colombia a few years ago. Basically the government was giving cash rewards to members of the military if they could prove that they killed a guerrilla and they ended up really abusing the program. I read stories of military guys putting work ads in the paper in remote areas of high unemployment, they'd round up 20+ young guys from the country side who thought they were going to work, bus them to a city, execute them and dress them up as guerillas and collect their cash. This crazy shit and lack of respect for human life in some of these third world shit holes is appalling. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22False...22_scandal

It's definitely not fool proof. Let's say Duterte's tenure doesn't last that long and he suffers from an unnatural death which is a very real possibility for any politician in the Philippines.

Then he's replaced by someone with less than noble intentions but who maintains the same policy. It would become an absolute blood bath like you said.


I don't think these motorcycle assassins are held to some bodycount quota though. They do this incognito and are more like Shogun assasins from feudal Japan. They show up in the middle of the night to murk people, throw down an official calling card, and then disappear before sunrise.

They aren't looking for scalps or to monetize their work. It would be fascinating to see what the day to day routine is for some of these guys. Imagine getting dressed for work and hopping on a motorcycle knowing that you're going to spend the next few hours riding around blasting people.

Do they punch in timecards at the station? It's fascinating. Based on what I know about Duterte though I have a feeling that the guys tapped for this line of work are extremely loyal and mostly good men. They are not as psychotic as we would assume. Popping drug pushers and scumbags can be a guilt free job if you rationalize it a certain way.

Most likely they have an established military record too. Duterte is a big fan of putting guys with service history in positions. So maybe many of these guys have seen extensive combat before in the south and this is no big deal to them.

It's pretty obvious he is trying to copy to some extent Brazil's BOPE. Motorcycles are more mobile and can get in and out quickly without the chaotic feel of a team of 8-20 Special Ops guys armed to the teeth locking down an entire section to snatch drug runners.

Mexico has the same thing going right now with Spec Ops trained military guys wearing face hoods that have a different chain of command they follow.

Super selective processes make it alot harder to corrupt the men doing it because they pick guys that are incredibly loyal to their country, almost to a fault. If they are anything like Brazil, the drop out rate from selection, or the handpicked selection process must have hundreds of candidates not chosen or give up trying to make the cut.

Motorcycle assassins have become a time honored tradition in drug warfare now. I believe Colombians started doing it first. It's also economical for everyone involved.

The Philippines has probably perfected it now though. They even pull hits off in airport arrivals. A lot of the more serious guys use milled home built firearms that aren't even traceable. Some are even using zip submachinguns. It's wild.

I mentioned before that there is as much drug money flowing through SEA nations(Thailand in particular) as Mexico. The reason why there's not as much violence is because the drug business is very regimented.

The various government(s) take a cut and it's a dirty secret that's really not so secret. A lot of the main drug figureheads are military, politicians, or in high positions in law enforcement. That's why when there's some drug bust in SEA it's always couriers and the independent operators who are the competititon. It's very very rarely anyone significant.

In some ways this keeps the drama at a minimum. The need for death squads is lessened and there is not much cartel on cartel type violence. Plus it keeps foreign organized crime from poaching business because they simply can't operate on the same profit margins with the same protection.

With the Philippines though the problem is more complicated. There's rampant corruption and has latin-america levels of crime in some areas. Plus there's a full blown islamic insurgency with drug proceeds going to funding their war.

So the usual drug regimentation policy that keeps things civil in the rest of SEA doesn't help matters in the Philippines.

[Vienna]

(08-04-2016 10:42 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:51 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:29 AM)scotian Wrote:  

This reminds me of the False Positives Scandal that rocked Colombia a few years ago. Basically the government was giving cash rewards to members of the military if they could prove that they killed a guerrilla and they ended up really abusing the program. I read stories of military guys putting work ads in the paper in remote areas of high unemployment, they'd round up 20+ young guys from the country side who thought they were going to work, bus them to a city, execute them and dress them up as guerillas and collect their cash. This crazy shit and lack of respect for human life in some of these third world shit holes is appalling. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22False...22_scandal

It's definitely not fool proof. Let's say Duterte's tenure doesn't last that long and he suffers from an unnatural death which is a very real possibility for any politician in the Philippines.

Then he's replaced by someone with less than noble intentions but who maintains the same policy. It would become an absolute blood bath like you said.


I don't think these motorcycle assassins are held to some bodycount quota though. They do this incognito and are more like Shogun assasins from feudal Japan. They show up in the middle of the night to murk people, throw down an official calling card, and then disappear before sunrise.

They aren't looking for scalps or to monetize their work. It would be fascinating to see what the day to day routine is for some of these guys. Imagine getting dressed for work and hopping on a motorcycle knowing that you're going to spend the next few hours riding around blasting people.

Do they punch in timecards at the station? It's fascinating. Based on what I know about Duterte though I have a feeling that the guys tapped for this line of work are extremely loyal and mostly good men. They are not as psychotic as we would assume. Popping drug pushers and scumbags can be a guilt free job if you rationalize it a certain way.

Most likely they have an established military record too. Duterte is a big fan of putting guys with service history in positions. So maybe many of these guys have seen extensive combat before in the south and this is no big deal to them.

It's pretty obvious he is trying to copy to some extent Brazil's BOPE. Motorcycles are more mobile and can get in and out quickly without the chaotic feel of a team of 8-20 Special Ops guys armed to the teeth locking down an entire section to snatch drug runners.

Mexico has the same thing going right now with Spec Ops trained military guys wearing face hoods that have a different chain of command they follow.

Super selective processes make it alot harder to corrupt the men doing it because they pick guys that are incredibly loyal to their country, almost to a fault. If they are anything like Brazil, the drop out rate from selection, or the handpicked selection process must have hundreds of candidates not chosen or give up trying to make the cut.

Anyone know if there are books on the bolded topics? Seems like a very niche area of crime to investigate and write a book about, but maybe you guys have something to recommend.

[TravelerKai]

(08-04-2016 12:17 PM)DarianFrey Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 10:42 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:51 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:29 AM)scotian Wrote:  

This reminds me of the False Positives Scandal that rocked Colombia a few years ago. Basically the government was giving cash rewards to members of the military if they could prove that they killed a guerrilla and they ended up really abusing the program. I read stories of military guys putting work ads in the paper in remote areas of high unemployment, they'd round up 20+ young guys from the country side who thought they were going to work, bus them to a city, execute them and dress them up as guerillas and collect their cash. This crazy shit and lack of respect for human life in some of these third world shit holes is appalling. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22False...22_scandal

It's definitely not fool proof. Let's say Duterte's tenure doesn't last that long and he suffers from an unnatural death which is a very real possibility for any politician in the Philippines.

Then he's replaced by someone with less than noble intentions but who maintains the same policy. It would become an absolute blood bath like you said.


I don't think these motorcycle assassins are held to some bodycount quota though. They do this incognito and are more like Shogun assasins from feudal Japan. They show up in the middle of the night to murk people, throw down an official calling card, and then disappear before sunrise.

They aren't looking for scalps or to monetize their work. It would be fascinating to see what the day to day routine is for some of these guys. Imagine getting dressed for work and hopping on a motorcycle knowing that you're going to spend the next few hours riding around blasting people.

Do they punch in timecards at the station? It's fascinating. Based on what I know about Duterte though I have a feeling that the guys tapped for this line of work are extremely loyal and mostly good men. They are not as psychotic as we would assume. Popping drug pushers and scumbags can be a guilt free job if you rationalize it a certain way.

Most likely they have an established military record too. Duterte is a big fan of putting guys with service history in positions. So maybe many of these guys have seen extensive combat before in the south and this is no big deal to them.

It's pretty obvious he is trying to copy to some extent Brazil's BOPE. Motorcycles are more mobile and can get in and out quickly without the chaotic feel of a team of 8-20 Special Ops guys armed to the teeth locking down an entire section to snatch drug runners.

Mexico has the same thing going right now with Spec Ops trained military guys wearing face hoods that have a different chain of command they follow.

Super selective processes make it alot harder to corrupt the men doing it because they pick guys that are incredibly loyal to their country, almost to a fault. If they are anything like Brazil, the drop out rate from selection, or the handpicked selection process must have hundreds of candidates not chosen or give up trying to make the cut.

Anyone know if there are books on the bolded topics? Seems like a very niche area of crime to investigate and write a book about, but maybe you guys have something to recommend.

Books? Well on a quick look..

https://www.amazon.com/Homens-Preto-Port...OPE#navbar

Problem is no English.

You could also watch the epic award winning movie about BOPE:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0861739/


As for Mexico, that's a really hard one. I literally found nothing except news articles and photos. On Youtube there are some gun battles. Put "Mexican Marines" or "Special Forces" vs. "Los Zetas" or "Cartel"

[TravelerKai]

I may have spoken too soon, but you could try this book to get an understanding in a much broader sense. That said, it does not focus on the military killing them and what tactics they are using to do it. I still cannot find much on that.

https://www.amazon.com/El-Narco-Mexicos-...o+drug+war


For more on BOPE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batalh%C3%..._Especiais

http://www.rio-de-janeiro-travel-informa...squad.html (really good breakdown)

One thing is for certain, BOPE and Mexico got training from US Special Forces that went there to consult and advise. I don't think I have seen anyone dispute that. As for who exactly (Green Berets, CIA, etc.) I have no idea or forgot.

I remember somewhere I read that on particular year, or tryout session for BOPE, only 3 men passed the selection camp and the rest washed out.

Oh yeah, Dark Knowledge is correct. After a while The Philippines won't want to keep doing this indefinitely. They may end up switching over to a more para-military police group like Brazil and Mexico has. At some point they have to start making arrests and putting them on trial to increase integrity on the process itself. It does take ~ 3 years to train a decent group for this, so while they use what they have, they need to start making that transition right about now.

[thoughtgypsy]

(08-04-2016 09:51 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

It's definitely not fool proof. Let's say Duterte's tenure doesn't last that long and he suffers from an unnatural death which is a very real possibility for any politician in the Philippines.

Then he's replaced by someone with less than noble intentions but who maintains the same policy. It would become an absolute blood bath like you said.

I was told a lot of people there have that very worry. Marcos was clearly the most popular candidate for vice president, and everyone I talked to seem to be voting for him. Yet somehow, Robredo, the most anti-Duterte candidate, squeaked out ahead by 0.6% of the vote. Marcos and many others believe that he was disenfranchised on the order of millions of votes. The corrupt establishment are pulling out all the stops.

[Adv8nturous]

I was talking to a Thai girl about this and specifically Thalsin Shinawatras "war on drugs" in Thailand a few years ago.
The liberal Uk media described it as an excuse for Thai Police to shoot thousands of young Muslim men on the south of Thailand for no good reason.
Her opinion is that the Thai Drug trade was dealt a hammer blow and has never recovered. She reckons it's a sign of how smart Shinawatra was. Unfortunately he was also overtly corrupt which led to him being driven from office.
Like the sound of this Dutarte guy. Easy to say I guess when it's not happening in my country.

[mostlykelp]

This is some crazy stuff, but it's a lot better than the half-assed war on drugs in the U.S.