[James Bond Next level]

First of all, I already read the other thread about monogamy/polygamy, but it left me with a sense of incompleteness.

I'm genuinly interested in your arguments guys (more the "why" than the actual answer: monogamy or polygamy), as I wanna know beforehand what to pursue. If I don't and meet a special girl, we all know she will then push her agenda and it's not necessarily the same as mine.

Before listing some arguments, I wanna share some personnal experiences/thoughts:
-A friend of mine (who's a player-very tight game) started a relationship with a girl. They both like to seduce a lot but at first, they were monogamous. They are not anymore although they still are boyfriend/girlfriend. They have sex with other people (not necessarly together) and seem more at peace now. Funny thing is that they still are together more than half of the time, they don't fight a lot anymore and my friend told me that "now that I can go elsewhere, i don't want to do it too much".
-If you look closely the History, no men in power was really monogamous. Sure they seem like it, but they always had mistresses, etc. So like all the rest of the societal crap, is monogamy just a tool not to control the population (i.e. not have a depletion of women, because if every men has 2 women, well it's not possible). So in our individual case, should we really strive for monogamy?
-I do have a non-exclusive relationship with a girl. Sex is great, she's clever and interesting but I'm not feeling any love and neither does she. We both talk about dating and meeting other people and I'm not even feeling a hint of jealousy. Yet to be fair, she hasn't slept with anyone since me (and I believe her. No I'm not naive but the arguments are too numerous. Funny thing is that I'm the one sometime to push her to experiment more, since I'm only her #3)

Now about the arguments:
-Being a player accustomed to go talk to the girl, is it possible to close this door one day for good?
-Monogamy in a way is an assurance that our partner won't go elsewhere. But we have to realize and accept that nothing is certain in life. She still can cheat on you and divorce is easy now (and bad for men financials).
-Is the root of all that just jealousy? Jealous little insecure beta who want to be reassured. We, in the other hand, don't need that and like always when you don't chase, it comes to you. In this case, it would mean that this would demonstrate your high value and keep the girl(s) hooked
-Like all good things, if you consume too much, you become bored/disinterested, so it can applied to chasing women too


Additionally, if we rule out monogamy, what do you think is possible/the best for players like us to look for:
A) Have a "primal" wive/girlfriend. She's monogamous, you're not. But the other girls you see are just for sex, no real feeling.
B) Option A, but your primal has the same right as you
C) You look for several wives/girlfriends, no sex outside of the group
D) Option C, but sex outside of the group is allowed


I think I'm going for B. I will have to work a bit on my jealousy, but am sufficiently secure in myself. Besides with that, it's impossible to cheat and hurt the other partner (you or her) since it's allowed. The several girls on one roof seem risky : too much drama probably. Besides if you wanna have kids someday it would be weird IMO, the child would need the support from both his parents, not be shared with the other wife's kid. as for D, the cohesion of the group seem really thin.


I'm extremly interested in your experiences guys, especially if you're libertine for example, please do comment!!

[James Bond Next level]

Please think this through before voting. For ex, if you vote "Primal monogamous girlfriend/wife, only you bang on the side, but no feeling involved", don't you think she's gonna feel disadvantaged/jealous and leave you at some point? Especially if another guy offer her monogamy.

BTW I know that it's a bit theoretical, maybe I'll meet someone and opt for monogamy. I agree that there are some elements of the relationship that you built deppending of your partner. Nonetheless, I'm still interested to what you think

[Mercenary]

[Pride male]

Monogamy isnt normal, maybe to the European man it is but not elsewhere in the world.

[James Bond Next level]

(07-30-2016 11:53 AM)James Bond Next level Wrote:  

I'm genuinly interested in your arguments guys (more the "why" than the actual answer: monogamy or polygamy)

Thanks for your answers, but can you elaborate? As I said, there are several ways for example to be polygamous. As for the nature argument, be careful. Because in that case we could make the same argument about flying : "if Men were meant to fly, we would have wings" yet we do have planes. Nature or not, I think it's more about understanding the true reasons behind it.

[innocent21]

I choose the option that results in me getting the most sex.

[Foolsgo1d]

What the fuck is a primal girlfriend/wife?

Those which have long, messed up hair, hairy vags and shit in the yard alongside your dog?

[GlobalMan]

There is no "best way". Do what works for you and the situation.

(07-30-2016 12:01 PM)James Bond Next level Wrote:  

some elements of the relationship that you built are dependent on your partner.

Bingo.

[James Bond Next level]

(07-30-2016 01:06 PM)innocent21 Wrote:  

I choose the option that results in me getting the most sex.

Haha I was expecting a lot of reactions like that. Actually, some option mean the same amount for you, only different for your partner(s)

(07-30-2016 01:07 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

What the fuck is a primal girlfriend/wife?

Those which have long, messed up hair, hairy vags and shit in the yard alongside your dog?

It's your "special girl" meaning the only one who you do have feelings maybe even love. The rest are just girl you want for sex, nothing meaningful.

[Lindsey Graham]

It really depends on where you're at in life. Once you hit 100 notches, or whatever things you thought you needed to prove to yourself you were good with women, casual sex starts to decrease in importance. You become more like a girl in your attitude towards sex, if it happens great, but you just really can't be too bothered chasing pussy anymore. At this point, monogamy is the right thing to do.

Before that, I'd advise having a relationship where you bang other girls. Though most of my game career I've had girlfriends, or at the very least a girl you are emotionally attached to. Just fucking random women is an extremely lonely thing, it's good really only if you have a main girl for your affection needs.

[eljeffster]

(07-30-2016 12:01 PM)James Bond Next level Wrote:  

Please think this through before voting. For ex, if you vote "Primal monogamous girlfriend/wife, only you bang on the side, but no feeling involved", don't you think she's gonna feel disadvantaged/jealous and leave you at some point? Especially if another guy offer her monogamy.

BTW I know that it's a bit theoretical, maybe I'll meet someone and opt for monogamy. I agree that there are some elements of the relationship that you built deppending of your partner. Nonetheless, I'm still interested to what you think

Setting aside the other theoretical issues or the bigger questions of this post, I bolded two sections above for a reason.

First, women in your relationship should feel periods of jealousy where she sees other women in social settings responding to your presence [interest of other women validating you and giving your woman a small dose of dread and greater dose of tingles]. Also, men and women feel jealousy differently, "men feel more more white hot jealousy for a sexually cheating girlfriend or wife, and that women feel more jealousy for an emotionally cheating boyfriend or husband" Chateau Heartiste

The option you reference is where there is "no feeling involved" and therefore more acceptable as long as it is not perceived as including emotional cheating and especially if you don't embarrass her with your side girl(s).

I bolded the second point because it falls into a frame of assuming that the woman is the prize. There are a lot of guys out there offering up monogamy. They will wife that girl up. Young beautiful women treat the present day value of marriage and monogamy for what it's worth- they reject it for the carousel until their value significantly lowers down to the level where they find monogamy/marriage a good deal.

However, with an alpha that they perceive as high value, this same young beautiful woman will want him all to herself, but she will put up with less just in order to be with him. The offered monogamy of a beta isn't worth enough.

[James Bond Next level]

(07-31-2016 12:03 PM)eljeffster Wrote:  

Setting aside the other theoretical issues or the bigger questions of this post, I bolded two sections above for a reason.

First, women in your relationship should feel periods of jealousy where she sees other women in social settings responding to your presence [interest of other women validating you and giving your woman a small dose of dread and greater dose of tingles]. Also, men and women feel jealousy differently, "men feel more more white hot jealousy for a sexually cheating girlfriend or wife, and that women feel more jealousy for an emotionally cheating boyfriend or husband" Chateau Heartiste

The option you reference is where there is "no feeling involved" and therefore more acceptable as long as it is not perceived as including emotional cheating and especially if you don't embarrass her with your side girl(s).

I bolded the second point because it falls into a frame of assuming that the woman is the prize. There are a lot of guys out there offering up monogamy. They will wife that girl up. Young beautiful women treat the present day value of marriage and monogamy for what it's worth- they reject it for the carousel until their value significantly lowers down to the level where they find monogamy/marriage a good deal.

However, with an alpha that they perceive as high value, this same young beautiful woman will want him all to herself, but she will put up with less just in order to be with him. The offered monogamy of a beta isn't worth enough.

Very interesting point man, thanks for the contribution. About the "she should feel at least some jealousy" no matter what the realtionship is healthy : makes her realize again your value and that she could lose you if she's not careful. So she'll make more efforts for you.

As for "emotionnal cheating" I didn't list it. Either you bang on the side just for sex- no feelings, or you do have several girlfriends/wives. Should have mentionned that they all know about each other or maybe even see you at the same time (ménage à trois?) so it's not cheating.

[Conscious Pirate]

OP, I genuinely think you will gain much insight on the subject from Neil Strauss' latest book, The Truth. Strauss was a Rolling Stone contributor & is the writer of The Game, a somewhat historically valuable & referred to tome around these parts.

I don't want to taint your experience of it by adding commentary right now, but I highly suggest you read it & form your own conclusions on the questions you have posed.

To each, their own brother.

[The Black Knight]

I covered this in another post.

Men and Women are NOT Equal

From here:

thread-55129...pid1276581

The Black Knight Wrote:

(04-13-2016 11:05 AM)kaotic Wrote:  

Women will need to accept that a man might look elsewhere, but maintain the home front. Out of state out of mind and accept the fact a man might have a mistress. That's the best solution for some men.

This is how I role.

A woman's priority is to find a good provider that will take care of her and the children. The guy did just that from the sounds of it and met his end of the agreement by being successful. On the other hand, a man's priority is to bang out every young piece of ass and spread his seed far and wide. Very few men get excited about banging a chick they have been knocking out for 20 years and is 40+ years old. It's not the woman's fault that she got old; its just the way it is.

But the point is: Men and women are NOT equal and therefore, equal standards SHOULD NOT apply. Some of the responses in this thread are disturbing since some folks are basing their opinions on the assumption that men and women ARE equal.

An example in how things are not equal:

1. A 50 year old woman has nothing left to offer excluding companionship; especially if the kids have left the house already. Her SMV is about zero. She got provisioning for 30-ish years for herself and her children. She won the game and can't play anymore.

2. A 50 year old successful man can start a whole new family with a late 20's chick with some game and in the right environment. At the very least, these guys have opportunities to sport fuck some decent ass from time to time. Look at Donald Trump if you want an well known example of what I mean. The game isn't over for this guy.

But the woman gets indefinite provisioning despite having minimal value but the man is expected to keep his dick in a lockbox forever despite his SMV being way higher; a SMV likely earned over a period of decades on top of it? That's ridiculous.

You think this woman or the vast majority would stick by you if you couldn't provide during their prime? Get real. She’d be on the next Dick Train to Poundtown. A woman's value is primarily in her youthfulness and ability to be bear children. Once that is gone, she has little to offer.

Also keep in mind: Women peak around 20 just by default. Men around 40 if they have their shit together. Men earn their place at the table to be able to reproduce or have options to reproduce. Women? Shit, they pretty much just need to exist and not be a total cow (and even then...) in this day and age to get some baby batter in them. Since men have to earn it, they are are/should be afforded certain unique privileges as well. But you will think that's bullshit if you actually believe women earn it as much as men in attracting a partner because "equality" and all that non-sense.

Therefore given the actual reality between genders vs the manufactured reality of across the board "equality", an older woman's options should be:

1. She can stay and be fine with the man sport fucking some ass from time to time discreetly. Her needs get met (provisioning while having minimal SMV) and his needs get met (sampling young ass; simulating knocking up fertile sluts). Don't bring any diseases home, don't knock up a slut up, and don't publicly disrespect your wife. Pretty straight forward and everybody wins. One of the only few happy and stable marriages I have ever seen was with a foreign chick who clearly understood this. When the guy was out of town, she just wanted him to wrap it up (very understandable). That's it.

Also as we all know: a man can sport fuck a chick and think nothing of it an hour later. For a woman, it's a totally different story. Again, the genders are NOT equal and should NEVER be treated as such. I will never LTR a chick who doesn't accept and understand this fundamental fact of life.

2. Walk away and get payday. Assuming she gave up her best years, I'm OK with her getting a decent pay off. Not divorce rape levels but decent.

Seriously though: some of the borderline white-knighting in this thread is very odd and troubling to see. Some of you all need to take a step back and remember that men and women are NOT equal and stop making conclusions based on the assumption that things ARE equal. They are not. Not in the slightest bit nor will they ever will be.

[Easy_C]

Brief point on the above post:

That is where traditional home making skills come into play. A housewife is extremely good at her domestic skills has an enormous amount to offer even without good looks. If she is doing it right you will have exactly nothing to take care of at home sans any parenting tasks that require daddy. The amount of value that provides is immense.....that is one of the most important delusions of modern feminism that your typical millenial woman has no domestic skills. In many cases the entirety of the extra money that the second working parent earns gets put into daycare, maid service, private schools etc.....all things that the biological mother is capable of doing better than the hired help.

While you're learning the game knock yourself out. You should see lots of gals. Even if you're the most square types out there that only ever wants to sleep with one gal, learning how to deal with women is a must because that is the only way youl will understand the different types out there and be able to run the level of game required for an LTR(including proper discernment of which ones are suitable).

Back to the point though I am STRONGLY against societal polygamy. I have some more writings on this, but Polygamy is why the middle east is the way it is even more so than Islam(which is the root cause by providing acceptance of polygamy, the more immediate cause). Every polygamous system exhibits several characteristics. The first is that most males spend their time and resources acquiring additional females and invest very little in their children. You also tend to have a dearth of available females, and families too large to take care of. There are some much more detailed explanations out there but the end result is that you get a strongly R selected behavior. Men have lots of children, and then largely ignore them. This means that you get a large number of leftover males who have no economic or sexual prospects.

Typically the families just want to get rid of these extra males. They will get sent off to become migrant laborers, or to local militia/police/army/taliban units, or such. The ones with marketable skills may become interpreters or work setting up TV services, solar panels, etc. More recently another option to get rid of them is to send them to Europe.

Due to their shitty position in life and generally poor education these males are extremely susceptible to radicalization, much the same way that the growing class of "excess males" caused by America's sexual liberation and anti-masculine crusades tend to gravitate towards weird groups like Tumblr activism, MGTOW, white supremacist organizations, etc.

Note that this behavior mirrors what happens in Mormon enclaves, which frequently kick out their excess males to find women in the rest of society....much like Islamic countries are now offloading their excess males onto Europe.

Remember this. The more the West veers away from monogamy the more closely conditions in our society will begin to resemble places like Pakistan or Morocco.

[kikuyu1]

OP,you've overanalysed this thing.

(07-30-2016 12:48 PM)Pride male Wrote:  

Monogamy isnt normal, maybe to the European man it is but not elsewhere in the world.

Pride male is right-we're not monogamous! That's the be all and end all of the debate. Just make sure all the women get equal face time,dick and all kids are properly taken care of.
Eg,if you buy one woman a saloon car,buy the other 2 or 3 wives a similar car. Polygamy is therefore for older paid guys in Africa,though you do find younger under 40 polygamous dudes.

[TheMaleBrain]

My take, now, is mLTR.
However, it has been my experience that in order to hold those LTRs you need feelings.
That is, however, one difficult task.

I'm currently running one LTR (Girl #1) and banging on the side.

I feel the desire for diversity (heh!) in my sex life. Girl #1 (and most of the girls I know) doesn't.

So
For both to be happy:
1. Women need to be loyal.
2. Men need to be "semi-loyal" (= stick with main g/f or wife and occasionally bang on the side).

That way - the g/f is happy (she knows that straying is temporary, she is not in danger of loosing her position) and the men is happy.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(08-01-2016 03:05 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  

...
...Every polygamous system exhibits several characteristics. The first is that most males spend their time and resources acquiring additional females and invest very little in their children. You also tend to have a dearth of available females, and families too large to take care of. There are some much more detailed explanations out there but the end result is that you get a strongly R selected behavior. Men have lots of children, and then largely ignore them. This means that you get a large number of leftover males who have no economic or sexual prospects.
...

You said everything I wanted to say. But I'll add this anyway.

Monogamous societies not so long ago spent hundreds of years bitchslapping polygamous societies into submission. If it weren't for their restraint polygamous societies would be a historical footnote.

I'm typically an advocate for listening to one's instincts, but this is surely an instance where the facts of the matter have played out for all to see and made it utterly clear that monogamous societies are superior in every way.

Lest anyone want to have five wives while shitting malarial diarrhoea outside their mud hut.

[James Bond Next level]

(08-01-2016 02:18 AM)Conscious Pirate Wrote:  

OP, I genuinely think you will gain much insight on the subject from Neil Strauss' latest book, The Truth. Strauss was a Rolling Stone contributor & is the writer of The Game, a somewhat historically valuable & referred to tome around these parts.

I don't want to taint your experience of it by adding commentary right now, but I highly suggest you read it & form your own conclusions on the questions you have posed.

To each, their own brother.

I read the Game, but my instinct tells me Style is such a great manipulator, in this book it fit too good : vulnerable when he has too, big womanizer when he has to look good. Besides I have a wing just like that and I'm starting to see the deeper layer, not so perfect.
So, you really advise me to read it, is it worth it honestly?

(08-01-2016 02:49 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

I covered this in another post.

Men and Women are NOT Equal

Thanks for sharing, I do agree we're not equal. Your whole point does make sense.

(08-01-2016 05:27 AM)TheMaleBrain Wrote:  

My take, now, is mLTR.
However, it has been my experience that in order to hold those LTRs you need feelings.
That is, however, one difficult task.

I'm currently running one LTR (Girl #1) and banging on the side.

I feel the desire for diversity (heh!) in my sex life. Girl #1 (and most of the girls I know) doesn't.

So
For both to be happy:
1. Women need to be loyal.
2. Men need to be "semi-loyal" (= stick with main g/f or wife and occasionally bang on the side).

That way - the g/f is happy (she knows that straying is temporary, she is not in danger of loosing her position) and the men is happy.

Seems like a good compromise. Besides, It's kinda what happens with my MLTR even if there aren't real feelings & she's not my GF.

[El Chinito loco]

(07-30-2016 03:18 PM)James Bond Next level Wrote:  

(07-30-2016 01:07 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

What the fuck is a primal girlfriend/wife?

Those which have long, messed up hair, hairy vags and shit in the yard alongside your dog?

It's your "special girl" meaning the only one who you do have feelings maybe even love. The rest are just girl you want for sex, nothing meaningful.

I think you meant to say "primary" girl then champ.

[Hades]

I am getting married eventually but I'll have maybe two dozen mistresses and hopefully a couple dozen kids.

Why the hell not? Women demand a man like me. How is it wrong for me to deliver as such?

So yeah. I am a polygamist. My lady friend and I (she likes girls) mack on strippers and hot babes all the time. Some day soon we'll spit roast a few hoes.

[pialox]

(08-01-2016 07:24 PM)Hades Wrote:  

I am getting married eventually but I'll have maybe two dozen mistresses and hopefully a couple dozen kids.

Why the hell not? Women demand a man like me. How is it wrong for me to deliver as such?

So yeah. I am a polygamist. My lady friend and I (she likes girls) mack on strippers and hot babes all the time. Some day soon we'll spit roast a few hoes.

Ehhhh how is she going to spit roast them?

[Skull_Leader]

Monogamy isn't "natural", but neither is modern civilization, and polygamy is cancer to any stable, civil society.

[rpg]

A man has to bang a few women to clear his head. There are similarities and differences which would take a while to explain. What he should find is that his wife has some beautiful attributes which make coming home to her very worthwhile.
Probably one of the worst things I have seen that a woman can have besides a shitty personality is a pancake flat ass which angles her pussy down and makes sex crappy. The ass must be roundish no matter the size. Where is that pic of the bitch resting her ass on the table while she gives a speech? That is exactly what I am talking about.

[XPQ22]

(07-30-2016 12:01 PM)James Bond Next level Wrote:  

Please think this through before voting. For ex, if you vote "Primal monogamous girlfriend/wife, only you bang on the side, but no feeling involved", don't you think she's gonna feel disadvantaged/jealous and leave you at some point? Especially if another guy offer her monogamy.

BTW I know that it's a bit theoretical, maybe I'll meet someone and opt for monogamy. I agree that there are some elements of the relationship that you built deppending of your partner. Nonetheless, I'm still interested to what you think

Looks like that option is the most popular, but from a reality standpoint it also seems the most unreasonable.

If you're "high value" enough, I think it's perfectly reasonable that a girl you're in a more serious relationship with will bang only you for a time while you bang other women; I don't think this always comes out of some sense of loyalty to the guy, but simply because many women intrinsically don't seem comfortable banging multiple dudes regularly at the same time - while they'll have short flings here and there when they're "single" their primary MO is serial monogamy.

As recent experience in my case shows, however, it seems eventually the chickens will come home to roost, you can't leave it ambiguous forever, and she'll start pushing hard for serious commitment, at which point you have either the options to commit to her (and cheat on the side, perhaps, which I won't do as that's a #1 way to bring serious drama down on your head), next her, or bump her back to some kind of casual status (if she's even amenable to that) where she likely will be out searching for the guy who's going to commit to her, and when she finds that guy you'll have to be ready for her at some point to drop the "LSNFTE": "Long Soft Next For Temporary Exclusivity." - "So I've kinda been seeing this other guy and he seems serious and I want to see where it goes..."

It's probably possible to stay "casual fuckbuddies" for a pretty long time as well, but I wouldn't entertain any serious notions that she wasn't always on on the hunt for other guys as well, same as you're hunting for girls.

Something I think is a universal truth that I try to keep in mind when meeting young women from online, night game, or whatever - there's always somebody. Almost no young woman is truly alone in the world; she's either got a fuckbuddy, an ex-boyfriend, a guy she could call up (or I guess text these days) when she goes to NYC, a player she just got out of a "relationship" two weeks ago but they're not really really separated...there's always somebody, and most of us at some point have been the somebody.

You basically want to be the somebody, not the guy with no options who's looking for his wife on OKCupid. I think what keeps hoes coming back is that you remain non-judgmental, yet unimpressed by their hoe-like nature.