[britchard]

Given the popularity of the 'Brexit' thread, I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread dedicated to the hopeful fall of the EU, and European politics in general. There is surging support for eurosceptic parties across the EU, with France and Denmark two high-profile countries known to have strong anti-EU sentiments in their population.

So I hope that this thread will be a place to discuss important European political events and their knock-on effect on to the EU, and the EU in general. For example, the Conservative Party leadership contest in England will be very important, and so will the presidential elections in France that are coming up in about 9 months.

One really amazing aspect of RVF is how men of all nationalities can offer you very detailed insight in to the political and cultural situation in their respective countries, this is something that money can't buy and that you simply can't find on large news websites. So if European RVFers could step forward to give the rest of us extra information on the situation in their country, that would be great. For example, I have often had user 'Going Strong' explaining French politics to me in a clear, no-bullshit, informative way.

Lastly, I hope non-Europeans also get involved in this thread, as being against the EU is being against globalism, or you may just want to learn more on European politics.

[britchard]

As some of you may know, the UK's two traditionally largest parties (Conservatives and Labour) are both in the midst of leadership crises. I'll give a quick coverage on both of them, however I know (and hope) that most members here are more focused on UKIP!

Labour's current leader is Jeremy Corbyn could be cast as an English Bernie Sanders, as he attracts a new voter base whilst turning away Labour's traditional support, the working-class North. This is because he is pro-immigration and likes political correctness, and then this obviously attracts the young 'do-gooder' types. He says he is firmly pro-EU, but has been on record as anti-EU in the past. He has just had a resounding defeat in a vote of no confidence in him (an internal vote by Labour), but has dishonourably refused to resign. Read more here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36647458

The Conservative Party's leader is David Cameron, but he will step down by October, due to losing the referendum. There are lots of potential candidates, many of these will be MPs that you haven't heard of. It is argued that the leader should be anti-EU, but the 2 biggest anti-EU names in the party are Gove and Johnson, but they are quite disliked by the public. It may be better for a less well-known MP who is most importantly a strong leader and can unite the party to step forward.

Lastly, there is the possibility of a General Election within a year, so keep your ears peeled!

[H1N1]

The latest (entirely predictable) source of alarm following The Referendum vote is the supposed proliferation of hate crime, a wave that is apparently spreading like a pandemic across the length and breadth of the country. There is a swelling panic in the commons today about this, and what is to be done. There are already talks of emergency legislation.

Of course the reality is that it will be a few isolated incidents of ordinary people of modest intellect venting pent up frustrations in a crude and unlovely way.

I am virulently opposed to this silliness. We have adequate laws to protect against assault and battery. This seems to me to be a classic example of the kind of nihilism TLoO talks about. The ridiculous idea that calling a stranger a 'stupid wanker' is somehow different (and less bad, threatening, gratuitously unpleasant, or detrimental to a cohesive society) from calling them a 'black wanker', is frankly offensive in itself. The very idea that something is worse for being a hate crime, that it merits a more severe punishment as a consequence, is divisive, and smacks of a desperate effort on the part of white liberals to atone for their whiteness.

[Lizard King]

Useful background info/history of the EU in the first post of this thread thread-51949.html

Well worth your time watching the video.

[britchard]

(06-29-2016 08:33 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

The latest (entirely predictable) source of alarm following The Referendum vote is the supposed proliferation of hate crime, a wave that is apparently spreading like a pandemic across the length and breadth of the country. There is a swelling panic in the commons today about this, and what is to be done. There are already talks of emergency legislation.

Of course the reality is that it will be a few isolated incidents of ordinary people of modest intellect venting pent up frustrations in a crude and unlovely way.

I am virulently opposed to this silliness. We have adequate laws to protect against assault and battery. This seems to me to be a classic example of the kind of nihilism TLoO talks about. The ridiculous idea that calling a stranger a 'stupid wanker' is somehow different (and less bad, threatening, gratuitously unpleasant, or detrimental to a cohesive society) from calling them a 'black wanker', is frankly offensive in itself. The very idea that something is worse for being a hate crime, that it merits a more severe punishment as a consequence, is divisive, and smacks of a desperate effort on the part of white liberals to atone for their whiteness.

Although I might sound a skeptic, I often find myself wondering if these 'attacks' actually happen, or at least many of the attacks (this is the post-brexit events by the way).

It's very similar to how the media found a couple of idiots (or paid actors) to say that even though they voted leave, they thought we wouldn't actually leave. This was obviously just an attempt to de-legitimise the referendum result.

[Cuchulainn2016]

(06-30-2016 01:48 PM)britchard Wrote:  

(06-29-2016 08:33 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

The latest (entirely predictable) source of alarm following The Referendum vote is the supposed proliferation of hate crime, a wave that is apparently spreading like a pandemic across the length and breadth of the country. There is a swelling panic in the commons today about this, and what is to be done. There are already talks of emergency legislation.

Of course the reality is that it will be a few isolated incidents of ordinary people of modest intellect venting pent up frustrations in a crude and unlovely way.

I am virulently opposed to this silliness. We have adequate laws to protect against assault and battery. This seems to me to be a classic example of the kind of nihilism TLoO talks about. The ridiculous idea that calling a stranger a 'stupid wanker' is somehow different (and less bad, threatening, gratuitously unpleasant, or detrimental to a cohesive society) from calling them a 'black wanker', is frankly offensive in itself. The very idea that something is worse for being a hate crime, that it merits a more severe punishment as a consequence, is divisive, and smacks of a desperate effort on the part of white liberals to atone for their whiteness.

Although I might sound a skeptic, I often find myself wondering if these 'attacks' actually happen, or at least many of the attacks (this is the post-brexit events by the way).

It's very similar to how the media found a couple of idiots (or paid actors) to say that even though they voted leave, they thought we wouldn't actually leave. This was obviously just an attempt to de-legitimise the referendum result.

I did notice that some of the "messages" posted to tell Polish immigrants to go home were also translated into Polish.

I find it difficult to imagine the average racist type going to that much trouble for the poor immigrants.

Conclusion, same amount of "hate" crime as normal, just more press attention, and a fuckload of false flag on top.

[Mercenary]

Jean-Claude Juncker, President of the European Commission, in early June 2016, drunk as skunk.

This is not a parody/spoof video...it's the real thing.

[Caravaggio]

Barroso, former president of the European Commission, hires at Goldman Sachs.

I guess it was time to say "thank you" to him after he worked so hard for them during his former job.


https://www.theguardian.com/business/201...ernational

[britchard]

In Austria, the recent Presidential election result was overturned and the election is going to be held again in the Autumn. This was because there were some 'inconsistencies' and 'administrative and procedural errors' during the vote count, which could have affected up to 77,000 votes. The winning margin was only 31,000 votes, so the court ordered for it to be retaken.

The 'far-right', eurosceptic candidate Hofer got 49.7% of the votes, whereas the Green Party backed but independent Van der Bellen got 50.3%.

More information here (sorry to post the Guardian, but it was the first one that popped up): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/j...der-bellen

[Khan]

(07-09-2016 01:35 AM)Caravaggio Wrote:  

Barroso, former president of the European Commission, hires at Goldman Sachs.

I guess it was time to say "thank you" to him after he worked so hard for them during his former job.


https://www.theguardian.com/business/201...ernational

Former Maoist becomes part of management at Goldman Sachs. Simply brilliant.

[redpillage]

(07-09-2016 01:35 AM)Caravaggio Wrote:  

Barroso, former president of the European Commission, hires being hired at Goldman Sachs.

I guess it was time to say "thank you" to him after he worked so hard for them during his former job.


https://www.theguardian.com/business/201...ernational

"Former Portuguese PM and head of EU commission will help Wall Street firm deal with fallout of Brexit vote in non-executive advisory role"

Don't you get it? He's helping them in a purely altruistic fashion. This has nothing to do with enriching yourself. I mean how much can they possibly pay a Goldman Sachs board member? Nobody would want that job...

[N°6]

(07-10-2016 03:51 AM)Khan Wrote:  

(07-09-2016 01:35 AM)Caravaggio Wrote:  

Barroso, former president of the European Commission, hires at Goldman Sachs.

I guess it was time to say "thank you" to him after he worked so hard for them during his former job.


https://www.theguardian.com/business/201...ernational

Former Maoist becomes part of management at Goldman Sachs. Simply brilliant.

The most precise description of the model for governance in Europe is "financial-democracy".

[Orson]

Here is some recent data (June 2016) from Pew Research Center on European people's opinions on the EU:

Quote:

A median of 42% in these 10 nations [representing 82% of total GDP] want more power returned to their national capitals, while only 19% favor giving Brussels more power and 27% favor the status quo. Nevertheless, a median of 70% in the nine EU nations surveyed that don’t get a vote June 23 believe it would be bad for the EU if the UK decided to depart. Only 16% say it would be a good thing.

SOURCE
http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/06/07/euro...ign=buffer

The broad trend in opinion about EU rule is downwards:

[britchard]

UPCOMING EVENTS

4th December 2016- Italian Constitutional Referendum

4th December 2016- Austrian Election

15th March 2017- Netherlands General Election

April/May 2017- French Presidential Election


Italian Referendum
The Prime Minister has arranged a referendum on if the Italian people want to reduce the role of the Senate to an advisory role rather than a legislative one, and the Chamber keeps the power. A 'No' vote is likely to mean he (leader of the current centre-left ruling party) will resign and trigger a general election, in which right-wing populist party 'Five Star Movement' could do very well.

Austrian Election
This is a re-vote after problems with the counting in the previous round. It is the vote for the President, and is between populist right-winger Norbert Hoffer and independent Alex Van der Bellen. It is occurring on the same day as the Italian referendum so a massive shockwave could be sent across Europe.

Netherlands GE
The main point of populist interest is Geert Wilders and his Party for Freedom. He is the Dutch equivalent of Donald Trump or Nigel Farage, and will hopefully increase his party's share of the seats in Parliament.

French Presidential Elections
Everyone knows how important this election is going to be. Regarded by many in the UK as the election of most interest after the US elections, and I'm sure the US may feel it's the most important after the UK elections (not counting China/Russia because the elections rarely have any bearing on the politics of the country).

It is likely to be contested between the ruling Socialist party (low popularity at the moment), the centre-right Republicans and the populist right-wing Front National. They have a weird voting system, which is too long to explain in a simple post here.

[britchard]

Some general 'admin' on this thread here. I think this thread at the moment is best purely kept for mainland European politics, as currently most UK politics is discussed on the Brexit thread. However hopefully once we get on with Brexit, that thread will eventually stop being the de facto UK politics thread, and either UK politics switches to this thread or gets its own thread.

I'm not sure there are many non-Anglo countries that have enough interest in their politics to have dedicated threads for those countries, hence why I created this one, and why I'm not sure whether to have UK politics in this one or not.

[Ethan Hunt]

This is a great thread Britchard. I have wondered myself whether or not the Brexit thread should be renamed to 'British politics discussion' and whether or not a EU politics thread should really include the UK seeings as the UK is far more wilder talked about that all the countries in the EU combined.

I forgot which posted said this but someone in the Trump thread something along the lines of "2016 will be the year of a shift, the people are fed up the leftie nonsense and all near elections will be far more right wing winners".

So far this prophecy has been true on two extremely big occasions. Brexit and US election.

We do have the leadership election on November 28. With 3 declared candidates it would seem like Paul Nuttall is likely to win. UKIP won't be the same without Sir Nigel Farage. Will be interesting to see the direction that they go.

I have heard that there may well be a general election next year. Which in theory should increase conservative MPs and pave an easier way to exit the EU. Followed by a possible second Scottish independence referendum. It would be great if they had a separate vote/question for for in England and Wales saying "Would you like Scotland to be independent?" I'm sure the majority of non scots would overwhelmingly vote yes.

[britchard]

(11-10-2016 01:07 PM)Ethan Hunt Wrote:  

This is a great thread Britchard. I have wondered myself whether or not the Brexit thread should be renamed to 'British politics discussion' and whether or not a EU politics thread should really include the UK seeings as the UK is far more wilder talked about that all the countries in the EU combined.

I forgot which posted said this but someone in the Trump thread something along the lines of "2016 will be the year of a shift, the people are fed up the leftie nonsense and all near elections will be far more right wing winners".

So far this prophecy has been true on two extremely big occasions. Brexit and US election.

We do have the leadership election on November 28. With 3 declared candidates it would seem like Paul Nuttall is likely to win. UKIP won't be the same without Sir Nigel Farage. Will be interesting to see the direction that they go.

I have heard that there may well be a general election next year. Which in theory should increase conservative MPs and pave an easier way to exit the EU. Followed by a possible second Scottish independence referendum. It would be great if they had a separate vote/question for for in England and Wales saying "Would you like Scotland to be independent?" I'm sure the majority of non scots would overwhelmingly vote yes.

Well the 'The Donald Trump thread' was not originally called that, and it would be nice to keep the legacy of the Brexit vote in a UK politics thread. I may pm Roosh to ask him if he could change it.

Just to be absolutely clear, this isn't a thread for discussion of EU politics- it is discussion of politics in Europe, which may or may not be about the EU.

I genuinely believe Nigel Farage should be knighted and that June 23rd should be made a national holiday. However for the current election cycle I am not too worried/hopeful about UKIP's future- it will endure, but I see no reason why not to vote for May. She is looking like could be an excellent Tory leader, she understands the big businesses AND the working people.

On to your last point, I'm really not sure what to think of Scottish independence. I feel like it would be very sad if the Union were to end, but the Scots do drag us down financially, and it would be good to teach Sturgeon a lesson, then let them come running back to us.

[Ethan Hunt]

(11-10-2016 01:16 PM)britchard Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 01:07 PM)Ethan Hunt Wrote:  

..

Well the 'The Donald Trump thread' was not originally called that, and it would be nice to keep the legacy of the Brexit vote in a UK politics thread. I may pm Roosh to ask him if he could change it.

Just to be absolutely clear, this isn't a thread for discussion of EU politics- it is discussion of politics in Europe, which may or may not be about the EU.

I genuinely believe Nigel Farage should be knighted and that June 23rd should be made a national holiday. However for the current election cycle I am not too worried/hopeful about UKIP's future- it will endure, but I see no reason why not to vote for May. She is looking like could be an excellent Tory leader, she understands the big businesses AND the working people.

On to your last point, I'm really not sure what to think of Scottish independence. I feel like it would be very sad if the Union were to end, but the Scots do drag us down financially, and it would be good to teach Sturgeon a lesson, then let them come running back to us.

EU I meant Europe as the entire continent not specifically the Union itself.

I can't say a bad word about May. I thought she was an odd choice being a retainer however as is the case with many of our MPs they don't often state their own opinion. They state an opinion they feel will resonate with their particular constituency.

I'm not particularly impressed with her recent trip to India. Relaxing of visa laws for Indians to settle in the UK if return that those who are currently here illegally return to India. I'm hoping she is making a play on her part, the illegals get return and nothing changes in regards to visas. I get why she is doing this, to open India for trade deals as they are in the top 10 world economies by size. An Indian MP last week has said that Britain should be paying restitution. That guy can frankly go fuck himself. Had plenty of time to sort his country out and failed.

An indecent Scotland would severely decrease the chance labour can get into power. That should in theory limit the amount nonsense policies that get pushed through. There is a great deal of cuckishness within the Tory party. Although all of the Tory MPs I have met and spoken too have all seemed like decent people. They get a lot of slack but they do a lot of work for not that much pay, relatively.

[Mekorig]

@britchard: altough they are euro-esecptic and anti-system, i would not call grillo's movement right-wing. They are left leaning.

[Foolsgo1d]

@ Ethan Hunt

Theresa May was the former Home Secretary and a lot of problems were never resolved under her and new ones were created. She is no Thatcher but I would anticipate she will use Trump as her rock in the political and economic sphere when it comes to domestic and foreign affairs.

You can accuse a man of sucking up to the POTUS but a woman can use her feminine wills to avoid those accusations.

[Beirut]

The problem with Lepen is that Jupe will suck the centrist right vote as he is generally well liked and the left and right there always gang up on the front national. She would need a huge push to beat them both.

[britchard]

(11-10-2016 06:35 PM)Beirut Wrote:  

The problem with Lepen is that Jupe will suck the centrist right vote as he is generally well liked and the left and right there always gang up on the front national. She would need a huge push to beat them both.

Is Juppe most likely to win the nomination for les republicains?

RE: May's visit to India, I don't think she'll ever entertain the thought of restitution, but I'm all for stronger links with the Commonwealth.

The SNP is the dominant force in Scotland now, and I can't see how it will change any time soon. Under Corbyn, I think Labour don't really have any chance of winning.

[Beirut]

Yes last time i checked hes ahead of sarkozy by quite a bit.

[britchard]

However Sarkozy has shifted quite far to the right since his presidency. I suspect it is a combination of him realising that France will fall soon if nothing is done, his anger at the terror attacks and wanting to take votes from Le Pen.

If I knew he was going to stick to his word, I honestly wouldn't mind Sarkozy as President, he's very right-wing as French people go. He's also a bit of a womaniser and a throwback to the old days.

I think the sound of Trump, May, Sarkozy, Putin, Duterte, etc as our leaders instead of people like Obama, Cameron and Hollande is much more pleasing. All that needs to be done now is to get rid of Merkel!

[britchard]

Do you think Trump will give the UK a very generous post-Brexit trade deal in order to encourage other countries who are eurosceptic to leave? Obviously you are never going to get countries like Sweden or Germany to leave, but Ireland, France, and the Netherlands could all leave.

I think Trump wants to completely dismantle the globalist EU within his first term.