[WestIndianArchie]

Context really matters.

A chick you deal with at work is very different than your girlfriend or a chick you're approaching.

Work is far more political and tilted towards a woman's strengths that it is not wise to practice the full "rollercoaster" with chicks that will make your life hell if you close.

Before guys van really use game effectively, they need to be aware that there are social norms at play. Not being aware of those things is why 100 programmers build the app and some lightweight M.B.A. types make billions.

However, lemme home in on your concern.

As a new player trying to get his feet wet, what I thought was offensive or hurtful wasn't always.

More importantly, what was nice or fun, could be perceived horribly.

With your example, you're not okay with her walking off in a huff. At a bar, you should feel whatever. At work? That might get you sitting in HR.

In terms of an approach that is ice and fire, hell and heaven..The old term was push and pull.

Most new guys
Blah blah blah, so you guys look like you're having the most fun.
Cool great...
Lemme tell you a funny story
Lemme tell you a joke
Fun, fun, fun

^ the above is fine, but most chicks are immune to this. not that they don't laugh, they do. But you're the 5th entertainer that they've had tonight.

What you need is contrast. Not just to set you apart thematically, but it is the contrast that is getting her to react.

In a pickup situation, not a work conversation,

I am totally in love with you
Oh wait, you like mayonnaise on your fries, we're broken up. I hate you.
*back turn*

Or

I hate you.
Wait, you like the Strokes?
We're getting married

____

The prettier a girl is, the more Seth Rogen's she deals with. The more orbiters and ass kissers. No one dares to disagree. She can be quite mean, but no one puts her in her place.

A sweetie pie would obviously need less sharp treatment, she wants to feel the highs and lows. That's why women like to have a good cry. It's cathartic.

Men don't have that desire

WIA

[riddlemethis]

Thanks for the replay. Luckly my coworkers are a bit more red pill since i work at a restaurant in a casino. Even had a waiter slap a waitress's ass (hes still a dumbass) and the waitresses didn't rat him out to HR.

[Dalaran1991]

WIA been smacking newbies with this line "you are not running game, you are just dating" a lot.

At first I thought he was just being the old grumbler , but when I thought about it, the man got a point.

Truth is, any average man who goes out enough will get laid, even a girlfriend.

So me going out looking a little bit better than average, see a cute girl I like, come over to talk. She happens to like me enough and follows the bang recipe. Rinse and repeat. With a combination of not fucking up, diligence and sheer luck I run into a LTR material.

Thats all good but thats not game. Moving from one green light to the next is good, but nothing an average man with some direction couldn't do.

Where does this game thingy start anyway?

[Ringo]

As they say, the best do the basics better.

Great thread, WIA.

[WestIndianArchie]

(06-15-2016 06:42 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Where does this game thingy start anyway?

I've said it before, most regular guys don't really approach that much.

I probably talked to less than 10 girls seriously before I got into game. I managed to swing two gf's out of it, BUT... I didn't have the skill set to handle either. A lot of guys have my story, and some weren't so lucky. They talked to a couple girls and tried to make some moves and got shot down. And they just swore off girls all together.

So the conventional advice - make money/get in shape is very harmful if you don't approach.

But if you have those things and you start approaching regularly, no strategy and no "jedi mind tricks", you'll end up with a girlfriend. Assuming you have base level socialization, hygiene, etc.

The first part of learning the game is just getting over approach anxiety and realizing girls that are strangers aren't dangerous. You're more dangerous to them than they are to you. Also, that interrupting a stranger isn't a bad thing.

Game starts when you realize that you can actually affect a girl, that you can affect your chances by talking to her, touching her, moving her arounds, and giving her the "feelz"

You stop getting "lucky" and you start making your own luck.

Not every girl is gonna bang you. And a lot of so-called game gurus advocate that if she gives you even the tiniest bit of resistance to move on. They basically tamed pick up down and made it more palatable to guys that ALREADY think that talking to a stranger is bothering them.

But...even going into a new situation, knowing that game is not a magic bullet, but it does change your odds - changes things.

I know I can chat anyone up, shoot the breeze, and small talk.
I know that whatever I say, how they react physically/emotionally as well as what they say - tells me about that person AND where I could take the conversation.

That's POWER. That's the power of game. You're not at the mercy of these social situations. You know where a chick can go, where a guy can go, what they say, what they expect.

And knowing what the better half is expecting is great, because you can always surprise. It's in the "tussle" where they become engaged with you, and then into you.

So that's where it starts. You get used to talking to people, and you are able to make them feel things - because you know how they work.

Not everyone
Not all the time.

But enough of the time so that it's not "magic".
It's repeatable and reliable. Not foolproof, but much better than the
- the lack of approaches of regular guys
- the consistent approaching of a social guy

Once you start, the rabbit hole gets deeper and deeper.

What more can i do and say?
Who can I say it to?

For me, I think it all clicked when I had this chick back at her house.
She was hot, but not in to me yet.

So I asked her if she believe in mind reading.
She was like totally.

Then I did the 3's and 7's routine.
- I been studying for my work, think of a # between 1 and 4... (then 1 and 10)

Well you know how that plays out. Everyone picks 3 and 7.
So you guess right and bond.

But if it doesn't work, you say, man, I don't think it works either. (bond)

The panties came down quickly after that.

It's not even my bit, but it has the same effect on chicks all over the country. (or it did, it's probably dead now).

I was hitting her in the "feels". Maybe this guy is from another planet.

That's when I knew that there was something to this game stuff. Something beyond stories and jokes.

WIA

[Iso]

(06-15-2016 06:44 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

The first part of learning the game is just getting over approach anxiety and realizing girls that are strangers aren't dangerous. You're more dangerous to them than they are to you. Also, that interrupting a stranger isn't a bad thing.

How would you advice a newbie on getting rid of their approach anxiety? Are you a believer in the gradual exposure approach or going 100 instantly on approaches?

[El Padrone]

WIA preaching the gospel you hombres!

[subterfuge]

(06-15-2016 06:42 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Truth is, any average man who goes out enough will get laid

But does that then mean that he has at least *some* 'game'? Any man who is not a virgin (and didn't pay for it) has a certain degree of game?

Sometimes when I watch infields, it just looks to me like a normal social interaction. I fail to see the 'game'. Watch 90% of pickup vids, and it's

''Hey , I though you were cute. Wanted to meet you'' (it's brave and kudos for approaching, but is that game?)

And then, ''what are you up too today, what do you do for a job, bla bla bla ''
(It's just a normal conversation and then maybe he'll ask for her number and get it, or maybe she;ll eject earlier and say ''Anyway, bye. I have to go. Nice meeting you!'') - but the guy will say ''I RAN MY GAME ON HER''.

Running game = talking to a girl that you like?

Game seems to be being normal and able to hold a half decent conversation + not being needy, tease her, touch her, deal with her shit tests without getting defensive/emotional.

[Dalaran1991]

(11-03-2016 10:20 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  

(06-15-2016 06:42 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Truth is, any average man who goes out enough will get laid

Running game = talking to a girl that you like?

Game seems to be being normal and able to hold a half decent conversation + not being needy, tease her, touch her, deal with her shit tests without getting defensive/emotional.

On a very basic level, that's all it actually is, yes. And I do think its actually all an average man ever need.

But read what WIA posted just after me, this shit goes on to deeper level. It assures you that you know things, and that you dont get into shitty situation.

I know what I'm doing, and sometimes people come to me for advice, but I can say straight up that I dont have "game", if you think about game at the deeper, seduction level.

Remember all those heroes that get the girls fawning over in the old movies? Now how do you get the girls WITHOUT being the hero?

For me, that is game. And less than 1% people actually get it.

How do you, a better-than-average-but-not-James Bond-guy, goes to a party, talk to a girl who is with a guy taller, more attractive than you, then get her to follow you, then to obsess about you, then fuck you in "secret society"?

How do you swoop a VS model without being a celeb yourself?

How do you steal a LTR material girl from her long time loving boyfriend whom she actually loves?

Those are usually what we thought of as game. How do you know exactly what this girl, talking to you now, want? Deep dark inside her brain that she probably doesnt even know? How do you say and do the right thing right there right then?

But if this kind of game is required to get laid, 90% of us here would never get laid.

I'll let the masters here talk about this shit while I get my pop corn. WIA, you got some shit to explain.

So thankfully, 90% of game is exactly what you said:

Quote:

Running game = talking to a girl that you like?

Most guys dont do this. Most guys NEVER approach.

Sometimes people confound guts for game.



Furthermore, I dont think notches account for game.

My old roomate is a French-Italian, the Marlon Brando type with a surfboard, motorcycle and leather jacket and guitar.

He gets laid way more than I do, but once in a while when he gets dumped he tells me he is afraid he will never find a girl like that any more. And when he sees me neg girl, and she gets mad, he tells me to apologize.

For me, he has weak game.

[RunsWithScissors]

subterfuge, this is where I'm at too, I'm at the point where I'll initiate conversation with pretty much anyone if I can come up with a situational opener but am almost clueless when it comes to game. I've done approaches similar to the examples WIA gave about the grocery store and the coffee lawyer chick but don't know how to proceed with them beyond the opener. I've soft nexted girls that behaved poorly and seen how effectively it works but that's with girls already attracted to me. I'm happy about all this because it's significant progress from where I've been most of my life but I want to know more, and I want the tools to help me sustain relationships with the women that come and go through my life.

I know this thread is about theory and less about the "how" of game, but I've been reading theory for so long I'm beyond ready for the practical. And that means putting in the effort to practice and learn.

[WestIndianArchie]

(11-03-2016 01:49 PM)RunsWithScissors Wrote:  

I've done approaches similar to the examples WIA gave about the grocery store and the coffee lawyer chick but don't know how to proceed with them beyond the opener.

If you were running night game, it'd be obvious!

You'll notice that a lot of day game proponents do the following

- run errands
- notice a cute chick
- make some statement to get her attention
- quick innocuous chat
- number close attempt

Using man logic, why should a girl say yes?
Using chick logic, why should a girl say yes?

Aside from making yourself known to the girl

WHERE IS THE FUCKING GAME?

There is none.

You operate like that, you'd better get use to interacting with lots of chicks to uncover the handful that will push the interaction and attract themselves, that will automatically fall under your spell. Anyone that tells you it's a numbers game, isn't running game.

In practical terms, after you start your innocent chat about cocoa puffs in the cereal isle, you need to accuse her of buying the healthy stuff even when she totally wants fruity pebbles.

Then you call her back to a time when she was a kid. For the briefest moments she'll be out of her big girl pants and to a simpler time.

You want her to want you to keep talking to her.
So you say and do things that make her want to talk to you.

That's the social hook point

The next step is getting the sexual hook point, where you go from random guy to potential partner. Now that she's hooked on validation, you give her ways to get it.

"Hey let's get coffee across the street "

But the key to the practical part of a pull goes back to the original post.

I don't want to start idle conversations that might result in a number, I want to make her feel.

Once you know the point of the game, to make her feel, everything else becomes mechanical and logistical. Get her to feel, it's a flow chart.

But continue to have pointless conversations....

WIA

[heavy]

^^ It's the basis of humor. Good humor is always a little uncomfortable. As a dumb example:

Nice shoes. (pause pause pause) My mom has the same ones.

"Nice shoes" is uncomfortable. Who tells a stranger at a grocery store they have nice shoes, much less some loser dude to a hot babe. My mom comment is just to relieve the tension.

Buying healthy stuff when you want fruity pebbles is uncomfortable, but the idle chat about cocoa krisps beforehand lays down the comfort.

push pull...
pull push...

Either way

[debeguiled]

(11-08-2016 11:02 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

In practical terms, after you start your innocent chat about cocoa puffs in the cereal isle, you need to accuse her of buying the healthy stuff even when she totally wants fruity pebbles.

WIA

To use Neil Strauss's terminology, you just used a Fruity Pebbles pebble.

[WestIndianArchie]

Buying muesli when you truly want frosted flakes is more of a cold read, but also a party starter.

Like Robin Thicke, "You know you wanna.."

I want her to tap into the repressed/restrained self.

There's a lot of things to consider here, but that's the nitty gritty details of the pull.

WIA

[WestIndianArchie]

(11-08-2016 11:30 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  

(11-08-2016 11:02 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

In practical terms, after you start your innocent chat about cocoa puffs in the cereal isle, you need to accuse her of buying the healthy stuff even when she totally wants fruity pebbles.

WIA

To use Neil Strauss's terminology, you just used a Fruity Pebbles pebble.

Ha!

I like to all old ladies how to pick melons. They never unlink anything untoward.

WIA

[debeguiled]

(11-08-2016 11:48 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Ha!

I like to all old ladies how to pick melons. They never unlink anything untoward.

WIA

[WestIndianArchie]

Think not unlike

Using Swype, WIA often comes out as Eros

WIA

[RunsWithScissors]

WestIndianArchie Wrote:

If you were running night game, it'd be obvious!

You'll notice that a lot of day game proponents do the following

...

WHERE IS THE FUCKING GAME?

There is none.

Yes, this is exactly where I'm at. With enough approaches combined with some online I manage to get a new lay once or twice a month with very average women, but that alone is no longer rewarding. Thanks for the examples here, this works well for my learning style.

To put it simply, I'm afraid of night game. I don't have people to go out with very often much less a mentor to learn from. I've gone to bars alone and chatted with the bartenders and made good acquaintances with the regulars, some of whom I've spent time with socially outside the bars. I'm in a college town of 150k people, Fri/Sat night is busy downtown but weeknights are rarely that busy. And I'm 41 years old and don't like being up all night getting wasted anymore. These are likely all excuses but it's the way I see things. I do recognize that I have to put in the effort to achieve the things I want.

WestIndianArchie Wrote:

Once you know the point of the game, to make her feel, everything else becomes mechanical and logistical. Get her to feel, it's a flow chart.

This is on my mind frequently now during my interactions but that flow chart hasn't materialized for me yet. I'm reading Magic Bullets now and it's helping a bit.

[El Padrone]

Bump.

[tr1cky]

Bump