[Atheistani]

Hi,

I am looking to setup shop importing and retailing wooden furniture. I will be selling in the UK with the initial aim of targeting my own ethnic group Mostly wooden carved furniture.

I have a few sample products arriving soon, and have shown pics to friends and relatives, but they are all people of a similar demographic, ethnic background etc. I was hoping people here could chime with opinions on whether the items look to them, just so I get some feedback from outside my own group. I'm just interested in what people think of the shape/design of the piece and the carving aesthetics, things like fabrics, colours, wood finishes etc would be different to the pics .

I'm guessing these wont be most people's cup to tea. But any input is welcome. Also would be nice to hear from anyone who has experience in the (wooden) furniture market.

I checked the forum rules and I believe this is ok, I'm not really promoting anything just looking to get input.

   

   

   

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[Sidney Crosby]

Nice looking stuff, I like the bed and the table. Those sofas remind of something that is in some formal room that no one would ever sit on, so you'd need to have a pretty big place to justify uncomfortable furniture.

[Atheistani]

Thanks mate. I agree those are more 'formal' sofas, need to make them as comfy as possible.

[ms224]

THe first is a duncan fife sofa copy

The bed is pretty dope though

[Surreyman]

(05-01-2016 06:01 PM)Sidney Crosby Wrote:  

Nice looking stuff, I like the bed and the table. Those sofas remind of something that is in some formal room that no one would ever sit on, so you'd need to have a pretty big place to justify uncomfortable furniture.

I'd agree that the sofas have a much narrower appeal than the rest of the furniture. MY parents had a sofa like that, but it was rarely used and wasn't popular. Only good to sit on sideways like a chaise longue.

I'd say the wardrobes, tables and the bedstead are the items with the broadest appeal. I mention broad appeal because you said you wanted to ultimately be selling to non-Pakistani(?) customers as well. That's a good idea, middle-class white English people tend to spend more, live alone, as well as divorcing and moving house more often. Without any data, I would estimate they consume a lot more furniture per person.

I said 'middle class' because I don't think the DFS demographic would buy any of this stuff.

Just my thoughts, but I'm not in the furniture biz.

[Atheistani]

Yeah thanks, I agree with what you say.

I know a lot of British Asians have like a 'formal' living room (front room, first one in the house) and another more casual living area. The formal one is normally kept very tidy so if someone comes round you can make a good impression with that room, as it doesnt have your day to day mess. I remember my cousins as children werent allowed in that room in case they made a mess. I notice this is still the case but dont know if the new generation will keep this formality. Interesting cultural thing there. I might be able to use this custom to my advantage as long as the sofas are not too uncomfortable.

I spoke to some guy from a furniture/upholstery company and we talked about the sofas. He didnt mention they would be too uncomfortable and when I asked him about it he just said you cant "slouch" on them.

Asians don't really buy moderately priced bedroom furniture as far as I know, so it might be a hard sell to them for the beds and wardrobes. I reckon I will work on improving the sofas and push them to the asians. Try and get White Middle Class English people to look at the beds and wardrobes. Will need to think about where to set up shop, I am based in East London.

I agree the DFS crowd wont be too interested, definitely going for the Middle Class.

[Sidney Crosby]

Aren't young people in Europe/UK ditching nicer furniture for shitty ultra modern IKEA furniture? I've heard you can buy antiques cheap over there cause the majority of young people don't want them.

[John Michael Kane]

Need much more information:

What's your supply chain look like? How many vendors are you working with? What is the lead time from factory to export to import to customs to your retail showroom to the customer? Are you going to have inventory in stock, or will all orders be filled on a as-needed basis? How much cash do you have for this venture? What about loans? What experience to you have in management, sales or retailing?

The furniture business is highly competitive and capital intensive. Many, many people have failed in it. I'd put it right up there alongside of the restaurant business in terms of barriers to entry. Answer the questions above, then go from there.

[Atheistani]

(05-02-2016 02:36 PM)Sidney Crosby Wrote:  

Aren't young people in Europe/UK ditching nicer furniture for shitty ultra modern IKEA furniture? I've heard you can buy antiques cheap over there cause the majority of young people don't want them.

Yeah this is true for young people and those of the working classes especially. There's also a big thing in the UK where people spend hours everyday slouched on their couch watching TV. Those guys just want super soft and comfy sofas to be lazy bums in. Just watch Gogglebox. I personally prefer a more upright position as it keeps me more alert and energetic. It's true about the Ikea thing, but those pieces are not very interesting. I'm betting that that furniture with 'character' may have a small market I can exploit.

The thing is, these big companies that mass produce furniture have huge budgets so those are the only things you see advertised on TV, unless you've seen nice furniture at someones house you wont really know what to look for. People are suckers for marketing. Personally, I've never really thought anything in DFS looks very good, unlike with clothes, cars and other types of consumer items where I can feel somewhat passionate about products and designs. I think mainstream sofas are too blocky and large, and look overpowering in a small UK living room.

(05-02-2016 02:47 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

What's your supply chain look like? How many vendors are you working with? What is the lead time from factory to export to import to customs to your retail showroom to the customer? Are you going to have inventory in stock, or will all orders be filled on a as-needed basis? How much cash do you have for this venture? What about loans? What experience to you have in management, sales or retailing?

The supply chain is quite a mess. Basically I go abroad, and these places have small furniture manufacturing 'workshops' with anywhere between 5-15 employees, mostly on the lower end. The workshops just manufacture the wooden products unfinished. In the main areas you can have hundreds of such workshops.

They are way behind on technology but have an abundant supply of woodworkers (carvers etc) and massive tradition of arts and crafts that they can draw upon for inspiration. This is the main advantage of importing from there. These guys export very little, so things are very 'asian' and most things (99% of it) would be extremely out of place in the West, aesthetics wise. However, I believe it's possible to make customs designs that should work in the West.

I've worked with one workshop so far (all my orders were from retailers, but I visited one of the workshops a few times). I would need to find more good contacts if I proceed. I would then need to find the best way to finish these products. Finishers and upholsters work independently (also in small units) so need to make long-term relationships with good ones, or hire people myself. The latter would be ideal in the long term.

It's not easy procuring these products, a bed can take two guys two weeks to make, apparantly. I think an order can be filled in a month or, two max. Then 6 weeks have it here. The idea would be to pay these guys a little more for a good and timely service. I dont expect to sell large quantities, but would like to make a 'healthy' margin on each product while keeping my operation and costs small.

I'm thinking if I have a small unit, a little advertising and a developed product mix, I would like to sell around 1 bed, 1 wardrobe, 1 sofa set, a few coffee tables and mirror frames a week and that should be ok for me.

I've got around 30K to invest in this, cash. Dont expect to blow it all at once. I think retail unit rent/location/size is something I need to think about, they wont be cheap around London.

I've got a few samples already. If I get good reviews, then the idea is to go back, develop some more contacts and get a larger sample size. Spend maybe 10K. Then come back and temporarily hire a retail unit somewhere and get some good feedback. If that looks good then look for a more permanent setup. The idea would be to have a decent selection available with a preference to selling those, and then charge a little more for custom jobs (more difficult as hand-made stuff never looks the same as pics, dealing with fabrics, chasing up individual items etc).

[John Michael Kane]

Quote:

They are way behind on technology but have an abundant supply of woodworkers (carvers etc) and massive tradition of arts and crafts that they can draw upon for inspiration. This is the main advantage of importing from there. These guys export very little, so things are very 'asian' and most things (99% of it) would be extremely out of place in the West, aesthetics wise. However, I believe it's possible to make customs designs that should work in the West.

Have you factored your total wholesale cost, plus overhead cost of having a retail shop as part of a business plan? What price are you going to have to charge at a retail rate to earn a healthy profit margin? I'm very concerned that you said your supply chain is a mess. There's no faster way to piss off customers than to delay them if your supply chain has kinks. Also, I've worked as a consultant in the furniture business before. I can tell you that as much as 30% of furniture can be lost due to poor shipping practices. Damage, especially on high-end pieces, really murders your profit margins. People that pay top-dollar for quality furniture won't tolerate it. Expect returns and cancellations, plus a bad reputation if you have this problem. Are your vendors insured for shipping damage? If so, for how much? Face value of the product? What are the claims processes?

Instead of having a retail location, have you thought about talking directly with the people in your community and see if you can direct sell them something without a showroom? You need to really gauge interest before signing up for an expensive lease. Your business has multiple points of possible failure from your description. I don't think you're anywhere near ready to pull the trigger until you do more research.

[Atheistani]

I think a 3+2 seater sofa set will need to be sold for 2-2.5K GBP depending on the item. Wardrobes around 500-1000. Beds between 1k and 2K. These guys do actually export bits and pieces and I dont think theres many issues of damage etc, but I guess that could be an issue to look out for. I'll probs be using CIF shipping so will need to get insurance myself. There wont be any wholesalers, I'll be involved in design, place the order, get the unfinished product, arrange finishing and shipping myself. I could order from retailers/wholesalers who could arrange all that for me, but I really need close relationships with the manufacturers as it will then be much easier to customise and get exactly what I want.

I thought about direct selling, but I will need to have sample items and need storage for that. Might aswell use that space for retail, doesnt need to be on a high street though.

[John Michael Kane]

You REALLY need to find out who is on the hook for damaged, lost or stolen products in shipping. If you are importing from Vietnam or China, you may not have much legal recourse if you are dealing through a shady channel. What legal contracts are they are offering to ensure the goods are delivered? Do you have to pre-pay them in full prior to delivery, or are they giving you Net 30, Net 60, etc?

Ultimately, if there is a problem between the factory and your storeroom, who is going to pay, and how much will it cost you in time and money? That's a HUGE, HUGE challenge in furniture. I've seen many furniture chains go under for failing to have this covered as part of their business strategy. Make sure your stuff has coverage, even if you have to pay for it yourself. Bill it as part of the cost of doing business to your end-customer. It is worth it for reducing headaches down the road.

I'd start off with some direct selling out of your garage or other small space if you can rent one on a month-to-month basis, just to gauge demand. You can reduce your risk profile a lot that way before going all-in. If demand is hot, then move up to a full retail space.

Last but not least, you need to ask yourself how the furniture will be delivered to the customer. Do you have a truck? How about at least two delivery men for heavy pieces of furniture? If you have a wealthy and busy client, they aren't going to want to pick up the furniture themselves. You either need to be in the delivery business yourself, or contract it out to a logistics company. If you contract it out, make sure they have proper insurance in case anything is damaged. If you do it yourself, you have to be really careful not to damage the house or furniture during delivery. You should have your own insurance too for home delivery if you go that route.

[Kona]

Is this that Indonesian stuff?

Aloha!

[Atheistani]

Thanks for the input John Mack. I will have to get insurance myself as I would be the one responsible for the goods once they leave the workshop. I asked about freight insurance but wasnt able to get it due to certain factors that i will fix next time. Regarding delivery i will just try to hire a van and get help in the earlier stages.

[John Michael Kane]

Alright, good luck! Give us an update in a bit and let us know how it goes.