[Vitriol]

Maybe some people who have travelled extensively can provide some insight, because this has been bothering me lately...

For those of us who have no interest in getting married and slaving away to afford a mortgage and a sports car or whatever, is there really any incentive to stay in the U.S. or contribute to American culture?

It really does seem like lots of stress for dubious rewards. Based on what others have said on this site and the general impression that I get from people who have travelled extensively, many other countries seem more laid back and enjoyable even if you have a lower standard of living or no hope of ever getting rich (most Americans will never get rich either, but love to think it will happen).

Does anyone have any specific experiences with places that were more enjoyable and less stressful even if you couldn't make as much money or get fancy toys?

[ConsciousDreams]

Your question really depends on individual preferences.
There are plenty of places you can live cheaply, but the reason you can live cheaply, is because the local economy is in tatters, and people make ten or twenty bucks a day if they are lucky.
The north of Brazil, Nicaragua, Peru, southern Spain, and a few others are all very pleasant and affordable places.
The best advice I can give you before you set out for such a place though, is to take advantage of the USA for what it is best for - making money.
If you can manage to get out of bed in the morning and work for 8 hrs, 5 days a week, at any decent USA job, you will make more than a heart surgeon in some of those places I mentioned.
Save your money here, get some language skills, and make a transition to an idyllic place from a position of strength.
The last thing you want is to end up scraping by abroad, pissed off because you are too poor to have fun and not worry about every single bill.

[Neo]

(07-17-2011 07:55 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  

Does anyone have any specific experiences with places that were more enjoyable and less stressful even if you couldn't make as much money or get fancy toys?

Parts of Western Europe. I was born in the US, but both my parents are immigrants. Vacation time time for companies in of Europe is a lot more than in the US(6 weeks, versus 2 weeks), work weeks are shorter(35 versus 40 hours) and the lifestyle is a lot more laid back. In some countries everything closes for a few hours in the afternoon. I'm talking like Italy, Spain, and France. I'm not sure about other countries. That's the good news.

The bad news is that in some parts of those countries unemployment is very high and it's very difficult to get a permanent job unless you're highly educated or specialized. You can always probably find something to do to just pay the bills though.

As to your question as to whether there is any incentive to stay in America, I'd say to gather money. Yes most Americans will never get rich, but I believe that America still can be the land of opportunity with the right idea and follow through. Sure a lot of the rich people I've met come from old money, but I know plenty of immigrants with barely a high school education who eventually became millionaires, they just saved and saved, opened businesses, slowly bought real estate and went from there.

There's a lot of things about American culture I don't like, including the corporate grind, society trying to push you to live beyond your means, and the downward spiral of the women. But for now I don't know of any other places where I can save cash and make it like I can in the US. A job for like 50k or 60k a year is baller status in many other countries.

[nomadicdude]

IMO the US is a joke because for the last 30 years corporations and the rich have gained such strength that basically 90% of Americans are getting jacked right now. The average workers wages hasn't gone up in the last 30 years even though their productivity has gone way up and the compensation of corporate CEO's has gone through the roof.

And then you combine this BS with the general attitude of Americans: insular, arrogant, stressed out, unworldly, and uncultured and I sometimes wonder what the point is in going back.

Other places aren't perfect, but look at it this way: the point of life isn't to be a slave to someone else. In America you are a fucking slave unless you make it to the top 1-10% of society. Why should you work your ass off just to have a middle class existence with no social safety net like you'd get in Europe or Australia.

So overall the US just doesn't make any sense anymore for anyone who has the balls and common sense to understand the world. Sadly most Americans are such big pussies they'll never realize how much they are getting screwed.

[babelfish669]

If your in the top 1% income tax bracket and aren't murdering yourself to be there, then America isn't all that bad. However, if you choices are suburbs and strip malls you may be better off elsewhere.

[Vitriol]

(07-21-2011 03:09 PM)nomadicdude Wrote:  

IMO the US is a joke because for the last 30 years corporations and the rich have gained such strength that basically 90% of Americans are getting jacked right now. The average workers wages hasn't gone up in the last 30 years even though their productivity has gone way up and the compensation of corporate CEO's has gone through the roof.

(07-21-2011 03:32 PM)babelfish669 Wrote:  

If your in the top 1% income tax bracket and aren't murdering yourself to be there, then America isn't all that bad.

That's definitely part of the problem. No matter how much people say you can supposively do well here, chances are you're not going to be in the 1% to 9% at most that actually live well without doing something ridiculous and being constantly stressed to get there. I wouldn't count on any of us becoming movie stars or pro athletes any time soon. Working your ass off for years on end in the hopes that you'll be in that 1% is a bad deal. By the time you realize that you didn't make it, most of your productive life will be over. Thinking that you'll actually start to enjoy your life when your old and retired is pretty ridiculous.

(07-21-2011 03:09 PM)nomadicdude Wrote:  

So overall the US just doesn't make any sense anymore for anyone who has the balls and common sense to understand the world. Sadly most Americans are such big pussies they'll never realize how much they are getting screwed.

This is a factor I've noticed that contributes to social isolation here. Aside from working or going to school people just pretty much rot in front of their TVs and watch movies. I guess now I should add cell-phones/texting/I-Phone to the list. The problem is that if you're not into that stuff it is difficult to socialize with a lot of people. We're joking on this forum about how women are becoming socially retarded due to excessive reliance on facebook and texting. But they are probably going to end up like the males who played too many video games and ended up exhibiting the symptoms of aspergers.

(07-17-2011 08:29 PM)Neo Wrote:  

But for now I don't know of any other places where I can save cash and make it like I can in the US. A job for like 50k or 60k a year is baller status in many other countries.

This is starting to change as well. We now have higher unemployment, more competition, and less social mobility and opportunity than there was 10 or 20 years ago.

Take away the information technology boom of the 90s and the U.S. has consistently had decreasing wages and standards of living since the 70s.

[blurb]

Guys, let's not get carried away. America is still a great place to make opportunities happen.

Here are a few surprisingly good points about America:

1) Money. America is a place, where, if you're willing to put in hard work, you'll be able to economically live better than +90% of the world's population that lives in poverty and dire conditions. If you avoid the corporate slave-system and make wise decisions, then yes, you can live the life you want to live (i.e., look at some of the members on this forum.) You can work for a year, then take a year off. If you save extensively, you can retire earlier. If you save a huge chunk of cash, you can live for a relatively long time in a foreign country where the living expenses are considerably cheaper. It is up to you, the goals you set, and the decisions that you make that ultimately move you forward into the future.

2) Easiest Place to get Laid Compared to countries such as Argentina and Saudi Arabia, because of full-fledged unbridled feminism for the past half-century, American women are arguably the most promiscuous women on the planet. You don't have to study hard and work hard for years and then have money and good prospects for access to just one pathetic pussy through marriage like in some other places in the world.

3) American guys develop/have the best game. Now, this is subjective for each person, but, as a whole, American guys have the best game simply because they have to deal with the most bitchiest, self-entitled, flakey women on the planet. Full-fledged feminism has opened the door of freedom for men to finally see and test the true nature of women. Think about it. Since men will become good at detecting specific traits such as golddigging/slutting/flaking, when they travel to other areas where feminism hasn't grasped a strong hold on the populace, their game will be stronger than most other guys'.

[rudebwoy]

In answer to your question, the answer is NO it is not worth staying in America. I myself am looking at multinational companies in foreign land for jobs as we speak, there comes a point when you realize a fancy apartment/nice ride is simply not worth it. I won't tell you the country I am looking at but I will say it is in Eastern Europe.
The hardest thing would be to be legally entitled to work in the country of your choosing.

[Vitriol]

(07-23-2011 04:20 PM)blurb Wrote:  

3) American guys develop/have the best game. Now, this is subjective for each person, but, as a whole, American guys have the best game simply because they have to deal with the most bitchiest, self-entitled, flakey women on the planet. Full-fledged feminism has opened the door of freedom for men to finally see and test the true nature of women. Think about it. Since men will become good at detecting specific traits such as golddigging/slutting/flaking, when they travel to other areas where feminism hasn't grasped a strong hold on the populace, their game will be stronger than most other guys'.

This is a double edged sword. I agree that American men are probably some of the most creative that you'll find (and game was a creative solution to the problem of not getting pussy). For better or for worse, American men also invented the internet, social networking, I-pods/phones. This also makes things a lot more competitive for the rest of us, and many more will either fail or get locked into a shitty career than become the next Steve Jobs or Zuckerberg.

blurb Wrote:

1) Money. America is a place, where, if you're willing to put in hard work, you'll be able to economically live better than +90% of the world's population that lives in poverty and dire conditions. If you avoid the corporate slave-system and make wise decisions, then yes, you can live the life you want to live (i.e., look at some of the members on this forum.) You can work for a year, then take a year off. If you save extensively, you can retire earlier. If you save a huge chunk of cash, you can live for a relatively long time in a foreign country where the living expenses are considerably cheaper. It is up to you, the goals you set, and the decisions that you make that ultimately move you forward into the future.

This is more in line with conventional wisdom about hard work paying off than actually being in touch with reality for most working Americans. Sure if you're actually employed here you'll be much better off than pretty much everyone in a place like Burma or Rwanda, but there are places (mostly in Europe) that have higher average standards of living than the U.S. does.

I know plenty of older, educated people that have worked hard their entire lives and never even broke into the 75-100k range. They sure as hell aren't retiring early or travelling constantly.

Hard work doesn't necessarily mean you're going to have tons of cash at some point. The path isn't that linear and you'd better be prepared to switch careers and take a pay cut at some point if you want to continually be employed. Job stability or staying in the same field with an upward progression your whole life is very rare now. You can be working hard and still get laid off or take some big losses...