[Anabasis to Desta]

I just finished watching the 2005 movie Pride and Prejudice from the same book by Jane Austen. If you haven't read the book or seen the movie, check out the trailer atleast. It deals with courtship and marriage in Georgian England.

The 20th and 21st centuries might have brought unprecedented and truly amazing advances in Science and Technology. I Couldn't help but think that these people were definitely more civilized than we are today which led me to the question ...

What qualities in a person or culture make them worthy of being called Civilized?

[Biz]

LOVE Keira Knightley

I have a thing for British chicks. It's really too bad too. They suck, especially once they open their dumb fucking mouths...

Don't get me started on Aussie's, hottest fucking white girl's ever.........steep hill

[The Truth]

(03-27-2016 06:26 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

I just finished watching the 2005 movie Pride and Prejudice from the same book by Jane Austen. If you haven't read the book or seen the movie, check out the trailer atleast. It deals with courtship and marriage in Georgian England.

The 20th and 21st centuries might have brought unprecedented and truly amazing advances in Science and Technology. I Couldn't help but think that these people were definitely more civilized than we are today which led me to the question ...

What qualities in a person or culture make them worthy of being called Civilized?

I'm sure many of us, myself included, have had that feeling of nostalgia before, of how living in the past under the old traditions and customs would have been so much cooler than the modern civilization we live in.

To answer your question, I think it's better to look at a overall culture rather than a person. Some basic features of a civilized culture would be-
Specialized social roles that differ but also complement each other. As opposed to a bunch of hunter-gatherers just getting along and surviving.
A unifying ideology or purpose that requires the above mentioned cooperation (for example a strong religion, resisting an invading group of people, survival against harsh weather, etc.)

I would say that's pretty much it. The main idea being a group of people who aren't just simply hunters/cavemen but who work together to strive toward a higher purpose.

Of course the modern usage of the word "civilized" has been taken over by the SJW types as a tool to resist all vestiges of the past traditions. Examples: Capital punishment- "We can't have that, this is 2016, we're civilized people". Gun rights- "We're a civilized society, this isn't the Wild West, we need to have common sense laws".

[Atheistani]

It all boils down to delayed gratification.

[Fortis]

I always thought civility was just restrained violence. Like, "I could destroy you with a sword, but I grand you mercy and destroy you with words and convert you to my side."

The most civil guys I know are the guys who could fuck another dude up physically but choose to be kind and show restraint and win people over.

[Anabasis to Desta]

(03-28-2016 03:51 AM)Atheistani Wrote:  

It all boils down to delayed gratification.

Could you elaborate more on that please?

[262]

(03-28-2016 05:28 AM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 03:51 AM)Atheistani Wrote:  

It all boils down to delayed gratification.

Could you elaborate more on that please?

Fortis' example could be considered delayed gratification.

"I could get the instant gratification of killing you, but I choose the delayed gratification of winning you over."

Similarly:
"I could get the instant gratification of raping you m'lady, but I choose the delayed gratification of winning you over."

And so on, like:
"I could get the instant gratification of reaching across the dinner table, but I choose the delayed gratification of asking you to pass me the item."

[PeanutoftheNight]

(03-27-2016 10:44 PM)The Truth Wrote:  

I'm sure many of us, myself included, have had that feeling of nostalgia before, of how living in the past under the old traditions and customs would have been so much cooler than the modern civilization we live in.

To answer your question, I think it's better to look at a overall culture rather than a person. Some basic features of a civilized culture would be-
Specialized social roles that differ but also complement each other. As opposed to a bunch of hunter-gatherers just getting along and surviving.
A unifying ideology or purpose that requires the above mentioned cooperation (for example a strong religion, resisting an invading group of people, survival against harsh weather, etc.)

I would say that's pretty much it. The main idea being a group of people who aren't just simply hunters/cavemen but who work together to strive toward a higher purpose.

Of course the modern usage of the word "civilized" has been taken over by the SJW types as a tool to resist all vestiges of the past traditions. Examples: Capital punishment- "We can't have that, this is 2016, we're civilized people". Gun rights- "We're a civilized society, this isn't the Wild West, we need to have common sense laws".

An interesting video on the concept of 'juvenoia', the belief that the newer generations are worse off than yours:

I would agree that back in those days people were more traditional, more 'sophisticated', women were clearly more feminine and more lady-like and all. But then again, we're looking at the aristocracy here, and I'd dare to say that the lower classes were likely unsophisticated to the degree as any lower class group, maybe even up to today, albeit culturally different.

I mean Algonquin tribes would all sleep in a common hut with the whole tribal group, and people would bang right there with everybody else a potential audience. Were they less civilized? Maybe, maybe not. The Roman aristocrats would hire prostitutes all the time to give their women a break, but Amish people don't have fun and leave education at 13, but are either uncivilized? Its a really hard question.

In our Western society, each cultural/societal group is different on its own, and that affects socioeconomic fates of its membership even when they emigrate to other places.

[johnbozzz]

Go onto Youtube and watch Ivanka (not Ivana) Trump speak about her work at Trump's offices. Then watch an old interview the Donald Trump speaking about his work. You'll see the difference between these two and the normal American within seconds.

[JacksonRev]

Civilized people eat large meals together and politely share the food.

These are uncivilized people at a buffet:

https://streamable.com/lsb6

[MMX2010]

To me, civilization is delayed gratification, shared ideology, and an unwillingness to initiate violence to maintain the social order.

By my definition, however, we didn't become civilized with respect to female sexuality until approximately 1950, and most people are unsure whether we should remain civilized in this way.

[samsamsam]

Civilized people use the search function.


On a more serious note about the delayed gratification, I think another way to look at it, is that they are emotionally controlled. Actions have thought behind it. They understand how poor behavior would reflect badly on them and their family.

[TooFineAPoint]

(03-28-2016 06:16 AM)262 Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 05:28 AM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 03:51 AM)Atheistani Wrote:  

It all boils down to delayed gratification.

Could you elaborate more on that please?

Fortis' example could be considered delayed gratification.

"I could get the instant gratification of killing you, but I choose the delayed gratification of winning you over."

Similarly:
"I could get the instant gratification of raping you m'lady, but I choose the delayed gratification of winning you over."

And so on, like:
"I could get the instant gratification of reaching across the dinner table, but I choose the delayed gratification of asking you to pass me the item."

To be even more precise, it can be called "low time preference".

https://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Time_preference

Main takeaway: "a time preference low enough to allow for production of capital goods initiates the “process of civilization” - a positive feedback loop where time preferences perpetually decrease due to the accumulation of capital, the increase of the relative value of future goods, the further division of labor, and lengthening of life expectancies. This process will continue indefinitely, as long as private property is respected."

For more info, look up Hans-Hermann Hoppe talking about this.

[TeutonicKnight]

Civilized comes from Civilisation.

I would classify a civilisation as a culture which is able to sustain a population of over 10000 in a city.
This is only possible through certain cultural developments like violence inhibitors and harmonisation strategies to reduce conflict between the members. Also certain advancements in technology and architecture are necessary.

I consider a person is civilized when he is very well adjusted to their civilisation AND has enough knowledge to recreate certain parts of it like a seed. The Person would be able to recreate a little bit of its cultural and technological developments. Like for example the basic idea of math or how an engine works. Even our simplest ideas are wonders to primitive cultures.

Every civilisation has massive violence inhibitors, so all of them share certain behaviours to prevent violence. This shows itself in a culture of conversation and manners to not offend the other and to promote themselves without slaying the alpha.
Society considers a person civilized who has behavioural patterns for violence inhibition and competition strategies without the use of physical force. And you can invent the wheel twice but not another wheel. Those cultural behaviours tend to be similar. Like the rule of law for example.

What you see in Pride and Prejudice is not only civilized but highly sophisticated. It shows more complex cultural environment which leads to more complex behaviours to adjust. We, coming from the culture of the masses, look at it like magic rituals. We are able to understand when something is more complex and because we honour the more complex as signs of status and intelligence we look nostalgic and admiration at this era which was more complex (to certain parts of the populous).

(Kiera Knightly WB)

[Orion]

His ability to conceive and submit to a higher order.

[Sidney Crosby]

Bend it like Beckham Keira Knightley is the best Keira Knightley.

[BIG BOSS]

Not swearing every other sentence is a good start.